They won't believe you. This is brought up every year with his stats and every year someone states it's up to the school to correct this, but every year Robbinsville complains about this.
Rushing Numbers Don’t Lie in the SMC
- Thread starter Swaindad40
- Start date
You don't just call up and give them a number. In the past I know schools have provided game logs and newspaper articles.
Rick Strunk handled the record book at one time. Not sure who it is now with him retired. The initial record book was compiled by the Raleigh News and Observer as an actual magazine style book in the early 1990's. Over the next few years they began to get all kinds of numbers but many were not verifiable. Those guys put in some research and then passed it off to the NCHSAA due to the magnitude and time required with it. When TA McLendon was chasing the national record the National Federation records were wrong. They listed three quarterbacks as having the most TDs scored when actually the numbers being used were their combination of TDs scored and passing TDs (TD accountability). I was able to contact the "record holder," the coach of the number two, and the newspaper reporter that covered the third guy. I kind of knew they were wrong by common sense and having met Brett Law (Indiana) who was the true record holder at the time.
With all that said, the current NCHSAA lists are not up to par although I think the records and top couple on each list are usually correct.
I go across the state trying to catch the best games I can. I will rarely go to 1A games but will usually take in one or two a season. Last year it was Murphy at Robbinsville. Loved the game and the atmosphere!!! Some hard nose, tough kids, playing smart football. Very well coached and fundamentally sound. True, small town football which I love!
The difference in watching those young men and players at the top top 4A schools was night and day. The size and speed difference is very noticeable. A tough, hard nosed kid is great but when he is outweighed by thirty pounds and is a 4.7 instead of a 4.4 it starts to show especially when the player with better numbers is a hard nose smasher and that is what colleges are seeing.
The previous poster was right. The potential recruits have to get to camps and combines and get seen but they better perform when they get there and catch the eye. It is not all about FBS or FCS. I have had players go to D2 schools, never paid a penny, graduated with a double major, and loved it.
The difference in watching those young men and players at the top top 4A schools was night and day. The size and speed difference is very noticeable. A tough, hard nosed kid is great but when he is outweighed by thirty pounds and is a 4.7 instead of a 4.4 it starts to show especially when the player with better numbers is a hard nose smasher and that is what colleges are seeing.
The previous poster was right. The potential recruits have to get to camps and combines and get seen but they better perform when they get there and catch the eye. It is not all about FBS or FCS. I have had players go to D2 schools, never paid a penny, graduated with a double major, and loved it.
Just my two cents - the reason why SMC backs thrive is because of the physical style of play as stated already, but another factor is that many teams in the SMC use "equalizer" offenses like the Wing T and Veer which allows you to put up bigger #s with less talent. Very few D1 true tailback material comes through the SMC. And yeah the 160lb backs ain't gonna cut it, not at running back anyway.
I'll take it a step further, there are ZERO D1 running backs in the SMC right now. No offense to any of the backs in the conference and there are several good ones on many different SMC teams, but I just call it like I see it.
BUT! I hope one or more of these kids prove me wrong!
BUT! I hope one or more of these kids prove me wrong!
Let me throw out some scattered thoughts. I believe that players from 1A schools have a much tougher time at the collegiate level for a variety of reasons. The first is ego, they have probably been "the man" at their school from peewees to graduation. Suddenly they are just another talented player. Most 1A backs have never really had to compete for a job, they are much better than their backups. It is a shock to them to adjust to that situation. Another advantage for bigger schools is that they have larger coaching staffs that often are filled with men that have college playing experience. I am not saying they are better coaches, they just know up it takes to be successful on the college level. In general 4A players get more quality reps in practice as often they will go against the majority of their first team defense. Most 1A teams don't have that luxury. Many SMC backs never fully develop other skills necessary to be ready to play at the college level. These skills include but are not limited to passing blocking, route running, receiving and carrying out fakes properly. Not to mention mastering a new, more complex offensive system. Feel free to criticize any and all of this, just my opinions.
I looked at some of the stats from nchsaa. All had 4 years except Travis Mccracken. He only had 3 even though he played as a freshman. Wonder why? Wonder if its true that he had 900yds ad a freshman. If so he would have 6,100yds.
As other posters are trying to tell you, we are not singling out any one particular school in the SMC.We are just stating that a outstanding running back in this 1A conference has less chance of succeeding at the college level as per say an outstanding running back from a 4A school. Most backs in this conference weigh in around 160lbs. That will not cut college ball.
I would guess this is the situation most of the time when players from SMC teams stop playing. And its not just backs, any positions really. One step further, most of these boys should have went D2 or smaller. They take those walk on spots and it doesn't work out most of the time.
And how did McCracken do in college? I'll wait....
Oh, and I was lucky enough to tackle McCracken a couple of times. I played with Brett and played against Travis. Both were special runners and had heart.... Both of them were difference makers and carried both teams....
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McCracken was too small for college ball.
That's what weve been trying to tell you for 2 days dipstick . There has never been a back in this conference just like him. Not sure there ever will be. BUT he was not college football material. Like we have been saying, backs in this conference have little chance at succeeding in college football .
I totally understand where you are coming from,being from Rosman, all you guys have to celebrate is your once in a lifetime college backs accomplishments.
Win a state championship and see how that compares to the fuzzy feelings that your college back gives you. If high school ball is graded on everyone's college achievements, we might as well all stop the love for the game.
Sticks and stones may break my bones.... Go back and re-read this thread. How many posts have I made in the last two days.
And there are other reasons he didn't play college ball besides his size.
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I would say that the SMC has four or more RB’s that could potentially play college ball. Notice I did not say D1 but college ball. I think it’s about overall figment and preparation for college ball. If a college team runs a specific offense like the triple option then a SMC back could go there and play wingback despite the size. If they have the ability to play in the slot then they could go to any spread team. If they can return punts or kickoffs then they are more valuable to a college team. If they can do all three then great! Now as far as training they have to attend technique camps and not to mention they have to be a gym rat to get their body ready. We are also forgetting the primary reason why they are in college which is academics. So HS GPA is the single most important aspect for college recruiting.
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Ive watched this college stuff never pan out for over 50 years..At the moment, there is 1 player in the SMC that has a chance at excelling at the college level....and he's at Murphy.
Like I said, Mintz, Matheson, Galavez,etc.
They got the shaft and truth be known ,there were 4A-6A players on their teams that were studs.. This conference dosen't have anyone as good as the 3 I just mentioned. What some folks are trying to say is that its extra extra hard for a 1A kid to make it in college football. .dont fall for what the college coaches are telling kids and their daddy's.
College coaches will promise a player and his parents the world..very rarely comes true at this 1A level.
Like I said, Mintz, Matheson, Galavez,etc.
They got the shaft and truth be known ,there were 4A-6A players on their teams that were studs.. This conference dosen't have anyone as good as the 3 I just mentioned. What some folks are trying to say is that its extra extra hard for a 1A kid to make it in college football. .dont fall for what the college coaches are telling kids and their daddy's.
College coaches will promise a player and his parents the world..very rarely comes true at this 1A level.
I haven't seen the kid from Murphy play but I agree that it's 3X as hard for a kid from the SMC to get the recognition that a kid from a bigger school gets. There have been bigger, better, faster kids in the SMC than the few that have actually made it. I may be stepping on toes here but Pickens is one of the few that made it that deserved to. My apologies to the Swain fans, but there have been several others that were more talented than the Shulers....
????? Passed on ???? You serious? I didn't know that. Sorry. The times I talked to him, he was a likeable guy. I really hate to hear that.
Correct me if I'm wrong but a kid from Robbinsville holds the all time SMC passing record..He pass for 7800 yrs in 3 yrs compared to Shuler passing for 7200 yds in 4 years
I honestly have no clue. Is he a recent grad? Did he get to play college ball? That's kind of my point. If he didn't get to play college ball, why not? Heath did. Benji just rode Heath's coattails.....
The quarterback was Dusty Anderson 2001-2003..don't think he played college ball and actually the SMC leader in receptions was from Robbinsville. KYLE Garland and he played at WCU
I believe he pursued baseball after high school.
Honestly, that is one thing I despise about the 1A conferences. Kids that really deserve a shot get overlooked just because they play at smaller schools. Kids dang near have to live on the road going to camps and 7 on 7 camps in order to get any recognition... It takes the stars aligning and a boat load of luck for kids to get a second look by a Div I school and even then, they better sacrifice a chicken and be prepare to give away their first born kid just to get an offer.
Damn. Like I said, I had major respect for him on the field and enjoyed talking to him off the field. I dreaded playing against him. One of the few that I did't want to hit. It's scary when someone your own age passes.
I don't have any particular agenda here but I will try to help bring clarity to the high school to college RB debate. If a kid thinks he is good he best attend a camp. Once he gets to that camp he better have these prototypical numbers. And no, they won't give one flying rat turd what they did in a 1A high school hudl tape.
D1-A
Ht 5'11 / Wt 205./ Bench 300lb.
40yd 4.5/ vertical 34"/ 4.2 shuttle
D1-AA/JC
Ht 5'10"/ Wt 195/ Bench 275
40yd 4.6/ vertical 32"/ 4.2 shuttle
D2/NAIA
Ht 5'9"/ Wt 185/ Bench 250
40yd 4.6/ vertical 31"/ 4.3 shuttle
D3 is irrelevant. They don't offer sport scholarships. Even D2 doesnt offer full ride unless you have D1 talent. You will have to pay something even if you met the above numbers for D2.
The above are prototypical recruit numbers for each division. Size and athleticism is a sliding scale. Example if you are 5'9" 190 but run a 4.3/4.4 you may be considered a D1 recruit. Oh and they need to be lazer timed numbers not numbers from a glorified 1A coach with a quick stopwatch and a short measuring stick.
Fact is there is a log jam of these type kids in 3A and 4A high school football. Only in this scenario does the tape matter. But hey, all it takes is for one school to fall in love with a recruit. So there is a chance.
Scholarship limit per team
FBS 85 per 129 D1-A teams
FCS 63 per 125 D1-AA teams
D2 36 per 170 D2 teams
These are the raw numbers. Being a 1A HS and the odds are...well ..let's just say.... lightning striking you in a red Ferrari. Hmmm wonder if Todd Gurley got that red Ferrari lol.
D1-A
Ht 5'11 / Wt 205./ Bench 300lb.
40yd 4.5/ vertical 34"/ 4.2 shuttle
D1-AA/JC
Ht 5'10"/ Wt 195/ Bench 275
40yd 4.6/ vertical 32"/ 4.2 shuttle
D2/NAIA
Ht 5'9"/ Wt 185/ Bench 250
40yd 4.6/ vertical 31"/ 4.3 shuttle
D3 is irrelevant. They don't offer sport scholarships. Even D2 doesnt offer full ride unless you have D1 talent. You will have to pay something even if you met the above numbers for D2.
The above are prototypical recruit numbers for each division. Size and athleticism is a sliding scale. Example if you are 5'9" 190 but run a 4.3/4.4 you may be considered a D1 recruit. Oh and they need to be lazer timed numbers not numbers from a glorified 1A coach with a quick stopwatch and a short measuring stick.
Fact is there is a log jam of these type kids in 3A and 4A high school football. Only in this scenario does the tape matter. But hey, all it takes is for one school to fall in love with a recruit. So there is a chance.
Scholarship limit per team
FBS 85 per 129 D1-A teams
FCS 63 per 125 D1-AA teams
D2 36 per 170 D2 teams
These are the raw numbers. Being a 1A HS and the odds are...well ..let's just say.... lightning striking you in a red Ferrari. Hmmm wonder if Todd Gurley got that red Ferrari lol.
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Spot on! Thanks for brining this to the table.
I agree a sliding scale based on size and athletic numbers. When a kid goes to a camp you have to put up great numbers and put on a show to make them want to watch your film. I will also add that you have to demonstrate the ability to be versatile and to fill as many roles as possible. For example, Slotback, wingback, running back, wide receiver, punt returner, kick returner, etc.
I agree a sliding scale based on size and athletic numbers. When a kid goes to a camp you have to put up great numbers and put on a show to make them want to watch your film. I will also add that you have to demonstrate the ability to be versatile and to fill as many roles as possible. For example, Slotback, wingback, running back, wide receiver, punt returner, kick returner, etc.
The sliding scale is pretty narrow though. As you can see there isn't much daylight between a prototype D1 and D2 RB's drill numbers. You better have explosive drill times (beyond what's listed) to compensate for any criteria a kid doesnt meet for size and stature. Its give and take. There is a whole different set of boxes a kid must check to be a wide receiver. But versatility can help. The wing t/ triple option positions you named narrows the chances even more. Spread offense is king at the next level. You need to remember though, a D1 coach isn't giving a full ride to a special teams player, but needs a underclassmen special team player that can become an offensive contributor at some point at RB and have the ability to make one cut and take it to the house. I've never seen a camp where if a kid ran a great forty a coach doesnt introduce himself. A coach can't develop size and speed. Weight and strength are 2 things a coach feels he can develop if a kid is close. Again, he has to be close and have elite skills in other areas! Remember this at ANY camp, the times and measurements matter. The position instruction does not. The position instruction only matter in recruiting, IF!!! you have the numbers. Reality is if a 1A RB runs a 4.7/4.8 (very fast for 1A) behind a good line that runs the wing t and hands off to said RB 35 times to pad stats. Sorry, but this kid doesnt have a chance. Some can't accept that. Its That simple. Your right, if you are a star RB at a small high school you better show some special teams skill on tape. "So you 1A school stars who are watching and you think you are too good to play special teams..... You need to check yourself." Coaches at all levels are in the business of winning. No matter what they say about caring for kids and what not their job is to win. D1 coaches have millions sometimes on the line to do just that. They are not going to cuddle a kid because their dad thinks he should be a D1 player at RB because of skewed numbers in high school. They don't care what rushing records they break in a 1A ball conference running a wing t. The kid had better completely nuclear bomb those records to show up on the coaches radar then be able to run a 4.5 to even get the coach to talk to him. It's one thing to be the best option at RB at a school with 450 options (aka students) It's another to be an elite RB with the best in country. It's the brutal truth though. All you can do when the offer never comes is tell the kid how proud you are of them and that they have there whole life ahead of them to achieve other accomplishments.
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And if they actually get a shot, to get in and to STAY 1A kids (shoot, all kids for that matter) need to remember these more than anything else that has been mentioned.
1) Better have your grades right and be prepared for college academically.
2) Be ready to work hard, swallow your pride, change positions, play defense, do what your coaches ask.
3) Get used to the fact that you ain't the big man on campus anymore.
4) Don't run home to mama / girlfriend.
5) Survive the culture shock. You are gonna be around people that think, talk, act, and view the world differently than you do. Learn to deal. Grow from it.
1) Better have your grades right and be prepared for college academically.
2) Be ready to work hard, swallow your pride, change positions, play defense, do what your coaches ask.
3) Get used to the fact that you ain't the big man on campus anymore.
4) Don't run home to mama / girlfriend.
5) Survive the culture shock. You are gonna be around people that think, talk, act, and view the world differently than you do. Learn to deal. Grow from it.
Yes academics is a good wild card to have especially at the D2 level. A partial scholarship for academics and athletics can offset some cost. In most cases, you still will have to pay a crap ton out of pocket. This is the main reason alot of walk ons don't pan out is the money. Fact is, its alot easier to get on D1 campus as a walk on with a full academic scholarship than to be a freak of nature to keep living the dream. Even as a walk on you are not guaranteed a roster spot. But, you have the academic scholarship in your back pocket and any success in a college should be the main goal anyway.
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In case anyone is curious about D3 numbers.
D3 RB
Ht 5'8"/ Wt 180lb/ Bench 250lb
40yd 4.7/ vertical 30"/ shuttle 4.4
Like I stated earlier no scholarships offered here for sports. But most schools at this level offer finacial aid packages that can be affordable. D3 schools give out the same degrees as D1. There is plenty to be proud of with that. Most kids at the high school level are going to fall in this trajectory. Their are plenty of coaches at this level with D1 experience if a player can develop maybe a transfer is in the cards for a D2 school or in rare cases D1. There are plenty of opportunities for kids to show what they can do at the next level. Biggest thing is...Dont worry about what other kids are getting as far as offers and how far they are in recruiting ahead of you. Worry about yourself and not somebody else. Everyones path is different. If you really want it there is an opportunity out there.
D3 RB
Ht 5'8"/ Wt 180lb/ Bench 250lb
40yd 4.7/ vertical 30"/ shuttle 4.4
Like I stated earlier no scholarships offered here for sports. But most schools at this level offer finacial aid packages that can be affordable. D3 schools give out the same degrees as D1. There is plenty to be proud of with that. Most kids at the high school level are going to fall in this trajectory. Their are plenty of coaches at this level with D1 experience if a player can develop maybe a transfer is in the cards for a D2 school or in rare cases D1. There are plenty of opportunities for kids to show what they can do at the next level. Biggest thing is...Dont worry about what other kids are getting as far as offers and how far they are in recruiting ahead of you. Worry about yourself and not somebody else. Everyones path is different. If you really want it there is an opportunity out there.
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