Overhauling of the NCHSAA by the NC House

[shutdownD24]

https://www.highschoolot.com/story/...erhaul-nchsaa-senate-gives-approval/21060920/

Not sure what the after effects may be of overhauling the NCHSAA. I think NC can be potentially opening a Pandora’s Box. Definitely not a fan of putting almost all control in the hands of political appointees no matter what political party they represent. That always ends up bad at some point. Doing all of this in the middle of the night speaks volumes also. We will see…

p.s. Here’s the rub. It seems in NC we have many that scream for smaller government with less regulation but many of those same people support government expanding into high school sports and many other areas when it suits their needs. The irony.

 

[Pisgah Bears]

Anytime politics gets involved in education things only get worse .

 

[shutdownD24]

Anytime politics gets involved in education things only get worse .

I agree 💯 percent.

 

[beamer24]

"The most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the government and I'm here to help."
Ronald Reagan

 

[FreedomAlum]

The NCHSAA is said to have an endowment fund in excess of $40 million. This is supposed to be a "rainy day" fund for emergencies. There are 432 member schools, so the fund amounts to about $92,000 per school. Yet, by their own admission, the association paid out a little more than $1.7 million in 2021 in the aftermath of the pandemic, or around $4000 per school-less than 5% of the fund.
Aside from the three parochial schools and some events played at private colleges all of this money was raised by public schools or at public facilities. Having some sort of oversight of this whole process doesn't seem like a huge abuse of power by the legislature to me.

 

[shutdownD24]

The NCHSAA is said to have an endowment fund in excess of $40 million. This is supposed to be a "rainy day" fund for emergencies. There are 432 member schools, so the fund amounts to about $92,000 per school. Yet, by their own admission, the association paid out a little more than $1.7 million in 2021 in the aftermath of the pandemic, or around $4000 per school-less than 5% of the fund.
Aside from the three parochial schools and some events played at private colleges all of this money was raised by public schools or at public facilities. Having some sort of oversight of this whole process doesn't seem like a huge abuse of power by the legislature to me.

You obviously haven’t read the whole bill on overhauling the NCHSAA. It’s a little more than oversight of finances involved in the overhaul.

 

[FreedomAlum]

You obviously haven’t read the whole bill on overhauling the NCHSAA. It’s a little more than oversight of finances involved in the overhaul.

You obviously haven’t read the whole bill on overhauling the NCHSAA. It’s a little more than oversight of finances involved in the overhaul.

We’ll see what happens once the law is put into effect. Anyone who follows politics knows that how a law is written and how it is enforced are two different things. This seems like a first step to accomplish oversight, let’s see if they abuse that power.

 

[FreedomAlum]

Even HSOT notes that this passed unanimously in the state Senate. The provisions noted in the original article by HSOT seem reasonable, on the whole. I don’t think the legislature should do much oversight on the NCISAA, because that is a private organization and they only rarely use public facilities, If at all. The NCHSAA is an entirely different matter.

 

[shutdownD24]

We’ll see what happens once the law is put into effect. Anyone who follows politics knows that how a law is written and how it is enforced are two different things. This seems like a first step to accomplish oversight, let’s see if they abuse that power.

Most politicians are pretty clueless of things that have never affected them in any type of way. Anyone who follows politics should also know that influence/laws/decisions are dictated by money and/or party in power. What works in Sylvia, NC doesn’t necessarily work in Charlotte, NC but now political influence from Sylvia can affect rules for sports in Charlotte or Greensboro. Political appointees do not need to be in charge of high school sports. NC is too gerrymandered for that and we will end up with unequal representation when one party is in power and then over-correction when another party comes into power. Politicians will be politicians. What’s best for the kids or competition will become an afterthought.

 

[FreedomAlum]

Most politicians are pretty clueless of things that have never affected them in any type of way. Anyone who follows politics should also know that influence/laws/decisions are dictated by money and/or party in power. What works in Sylvia, NC doesn’t necessarily work in Charlotte, NC but now political influence from Sylvia can affect rules for sports in Charlotte or Greensboro. Political appointees do not need to be in charge of high school sports. NC is too gerrymandered for that and we will end up with unequal representation when one party is in power and then over-correction when another party comes into power. Politicians will be politicians. What’s best for the kids or competition will become an afterthought.

Is your argument that the legislature should have done nothing? As near as I can tell they saw a problem and sought to address it. Nothing in what you posted above speaks to any of that. The fact remains that the NCHSAA overwhelmingly makes its money via the activities of public schools and at public facilities. That in itself is reason enough for the legislature to act.

 

[beamer24]

Is your argument that the legislature should have done nothing? As near as I can tell they saw a problem and sought to address it. Nothing in what you posted above speaks to any of that. The fact remains that the NCHSAA overwhelmingly makes its money via the activities of public schools and at public facilities. That in itself is reason enough for the legislature to act.

Didn't they already address it in House Bill 91?

 

[FreedomAlum]

Didn't they already address it in House Bill 91?

As near as I can tell that established a “memorandum for record” that would exist for four years starting in 2021. This bill takes effect in 2024, so it only supersedes that by one year.
One of the legislators quoted in the HSOT piece says they are revisiting that because the problem wasn’t addressed. He wasn’t more specific than that.

 

[shutdownD24]

Is your argument that the legislature should have done nothing? As near as I can tell they saw a problem and sought to address it. Nothing in what you posted above speaks to any of that. The fact remains that the NCHSAA overwhelmingly makes its money via the activities of public schools and at public facilities. That in itself is reason enough for the legislature to act.

I think it is perfectly reasonable to have a non-partisan committee for financial oversight to review expenditures and other items. I think we all can agree to that part. I do not believe in punishing an organization because they have been good at saving money throughout the years. The NCHSAA is a tax exempt organization so we can see their finances regardless. Compared to most states the NCHSAA has done an admirable job overall. It only needed to be tweaked some not butchered.

 

[Freshmanposter01]

The NCHSAA is said to have an endowment fund in excess of $40 million. This is supposed to be a "rainy day" fund for emergencies. There are 432 member schools, so the fund amounts to about $92,000 per school. Yet, by their own admission, the association paid out a little more than $1.7 million in 2021 in the aftermath of the pandemic, or around $4000 per school-less than 5% of the fund.
Aside from the three parochial schools and some events played at private colleges all of this money was raised by public schools or at public facilities. Having some sort of oversight of this whole process doesn't seem like a huge abuse of power by the legislature to me.

All this polictal mess that is getting involved with NCHSAA all comes from some local schools and them not getting their way and feeling they should be above the set rules. Noone had any issues with rules until it effects them directly negatively.

I am pretty sure the pandemic time frame payout was closer to $5 million in 2021.

People knowing partial stories without researching is usually what arguments like this one consist of. You have to realize that not all the fund is cash. It's investments in property, mutual funds and securities. Smart investments if you ask me. (Netting 5-7 million a year). The NCHSAA isn't making money on the schools.

The US is in massive debt, and everyone knew we had stability when we are in surplus( it's been so long most forgot what that's like). Why would it be any different for any other business (NCHSAA)? It's not like they have this frivolous spending and pocketing money into employees bank accounts. The money is there for the long-term and growing for the future. I believe NC is one of less than 4 states in the US that the governing body of high school sports has a surplus. The rest are in the negative and having hard times with basics. Talk to any of the other states 46 states high school governing bodies and I would bet 100% would rather be in NC shoes.

I firmly believe the oversight is strictly because of who leads the NCHSAA.

 

[Freshmanposter01]

I think it is perfectly reasonable to have a non-partisan committee for financial oversight to review expenditures and other items. I think we all can agree to that part. I do not believe in punishing an organization because they have been good a saving money throughout the years. The NCHSAA is a tax exempt organization so we can see their finances regardless. Compared to most states the NCHSAA has done an admirable job overall. It only needed to be tweaked some not butchered.

Just wrote on that. Lol. How you punishing someone for being in the positive when 95% of the same business' in different states are way in the negative. It doesn't make sense business wise.

 

[FreedomAlum]

I think it is perfectly reasonable to have a non-partisan committee for financial oversight to review expenditures and other items. I think we all can agree to that part. I do not believe in punishing an organization because they have been good a saving money throughout the years. The NCHSAA is a tax exempt organization so we can see their finances regardless. Compared to most states the NCHSAA has done an admirable job overall. It only needed to be tweaked some not butchered.

These are fair points, but I also think it’s fair to ask whether the NCHSAA has been good at “saving money” or whether they have taken too much from member schools. It seems that there is a provision in the bill to limit the amount the association can take when measured against how much they have saved and their operating expenses. This also seems like a perfectly reasonable law.

 

[FreedomAlum]

I

All this polictal mess that is getting involved with NCHSAA all comes from some local schools and them not getting their way and feeling they should be above the set rules. Noone had any issues with rules until it effects them directly negatively.

I am pretty sure the pandemic time frame payout was closer to $5 million in 2021.

People knowing partial stories without researching is usually what arguments like this one consist of. You have to realize that not all the fund is cash. It's investments in property, mutual funds and securities. Smart investments if you ask me. (Netting 5-7 million a year). The NCHSAA isn't making money on the schools.

The US is in massive debt, and everyone knew we had stability when we are in surplus( it's been so long most forgot what that's like). Why would it be any different for any other business (NCHSAA)? It's not like they have this frivolous spending and pocketing money into employees bank accounts. The money is there for the long-term and growing for the future. I believe NC is one of less than 4 states in the US that the governing body of high school sports has a surplus. The rest are in the negative and having hard times with basics. Talk to any of the other states 46 states high school governing bodies and I would bet 100% would rather be in NC shoes.

I firmly believe the oversight is strictly because of who leads the NCHSAA.

I posted a direct link to the NCHSAA stating what they paid out and quoted their numbers. If you have another source please share it.

 

[Freshmanposter01]

I

I posted a direct link to the NCHSAA stating what they paid out and quoted their numbers. If you have another source please share it.

• In 2020-2021 the NCHSAA distributed more than $5.7 million through the COVID-19 Athletic Program Subsidy (CAPS) initiative and regular end-of-year Endowment Distribution.

I am having trouble linking but this copied straight from site and can be found using this. So around $6 million total. (Corrected) Any other state able to do that? Definitely not. Some of the few (less than 4) states associations that are not in the red have less than $500k in the positive.

 

[FreedomAlum]

• In 2020-2021 the NCHSAA distributed more than $5.7 million through the COVID-19 Athletic Program Subsidy (CAPS) initiative and regular end-of-year Endowment Distribution.

I am having trouble linking but this copied straight from site and can be found using this. So around $6 million total. (Corrected) Any other state able to do that? Definitely not. Some of the few (less than 4) states associations that are not in the red have less than $500k in the positive.

Thank you for sharing that it showed up here when I searched using what you provided https://www.nchsaa.org/nchsaa-endowment-fund-distribution-information/
I don’t think that amounts to $7 million. I think the emergency relief and what they normally give out came to $5.7 million.
In any event, the legislature wasn’t satisfied with their interaction with the association and took steps to bring them under their control. The Senate voted unanimously to do that. If the NCHSAA couldn’t find one state senator to raise any objections, I have to think that they didn’t have much room to fight.

 

[shutdownD24]

All this polictal mess that is getting involved with NCHSAA all comes from some local schools and them not getting their way and feeling they should be above the set rules. Noone had any issues with rules until it effects them directly negatively.

I am pretty sure the pandemic time frame payout was closer to $5 million in 2021.

People knowing partial stories without researching is usually what arguments like this one consist of. You have to realize that not all the fund is cash. It's investments in property, mutual funds and securities. Smart investments if you ask me. (Netting 5-7 million a year). The NCHSAA isn't making money on the schools.

The US is in massive debt, and everyone knew we had stability when we are in surplus( it's been so long most forgot what that's like). Why would it be any different for any other business (NCHSAA)? It's not like they have this frivolous spending and pocketing money into employees bank accounts. The money is there for the long-term and growing for the future. I believe NC is one of less than 4 states in the US that the governing body of high school sports has a surplus. The rest are in the negative and having hard times with basics. Talk to any of the other states 46 states high school governing bodies and I would bet 100% would rather be in NC shoes.

I firmly believe the oversight is strictly because of who leads the NCHSAA.

💯 facts!!! You touched on the danger that I was alluding too earlier. Misinformed people with a wild hair up their booty and access to state political power has the potential to wreak havoc on sports/schools on the other side of the state.

 

[shutdownD24]

Thank you for sharing that it showed up here when I searched using what you provided https://www.nchsaa.org/nchsaa-endowment-fund-distribution-information/
I don’t think that amounts to $7 million. I think the emergency relief and what they normally give out came to $5.7 million.
In any event, the legislature wasn’t satisfied with their interaction with the association and took steps to bring them under their control. The Senate voted unanimously to do that. If the NCHSAA couldn’t find one state senator to raise any objections, I have to think that they didn’t have much room to fight.

You keep mentioning that no senators raised objections. This was tacked on to the bill late that was pushed through in the middle of the night once the votes were there for passage of the overall spending bill. I am sure that the majority of those senators did not get a chance to research or run it by their constituents for input. Most probably do not realize what was added because that wasn’t their focus. This ended up being a solution in search of a problem.

 

[beamer24]

All because a team was DQd from the playoffs. SMH

 

[shutdownD24]

Just wrote on that. Lol. How you punishing someone for being in the positive when 95% of the same business' in different states are way in the negative. It doesn't make sense business wise.

That is the crazy part. Someone hears surplus and loses their mind. I always thought the goal is to be financially solvent lol.

 

[FreedomAlum]

You keep mentioning that no senators raised objections. This was tacked on to the bill late that was pushed through in the middle of the night once the votes were there for passage of the overall spending bill. I am sure that the majority of those senators did not get a chance to research or run it by their constituents for input. Most probably do not realize what was added because that wasn’t their focus. This ended up being a solution in search of a problem.

The House had people vote against it, and two Dems even crossed over to vote in favor of that version. Even if it was “rammed through in the middle of the night” you can vote against it on principle. No one did.

 

[FreedomAlum]

That is the crazy part. Someone hears surplus and loses their mind. I always thought the goal is to be financially solvent lol.

The question is should the association have set that money aside for an emergency or returned more of it to the member schools. What the right approach is in that situation is open for debate. The legislature put in a provision to lower membership fees for member schools if the NCHSAA gets revenues beyond a certain percentage of their operating budget. That seems perfectly reasonable.

 

[Freshmanposter01]

The question is should the association have set that money aside for an emergency or returned more of it to the member schools. What the right approach is in that situation is open for debate. The legislature put in a provision to lower membership fees for member schools if the NCHSAA gets revenues beyond a certain percentage of their operating budget. That seems perfectly reasonable.

What are they wanting to lower membership fees to? 50 cent per student? I thought membership was a dollar per student right now. I know budgets can be bad for some schools/systems but if a school not able to pay $1 per student or can't get some company to sponsor them, something is wrong overall with that school/system.

 

[FreedomAlum]

What are they wanting to lower membership fees to? 50 cent per student? I thought membership was a dollar per student right now. I know budgets can be bad for some schools/systems but if a school not able to pay $1 per student or can't get some company to sponsor them, something is wrong overall with that school/system.

The HSOT piece linked at the top says that the bill would:

• Agree to reduce annual fees to participating schools by a minimum of 20% when the total fund balance for the administering organization and any associated entity is 250% of the total expenses

 

[Freshmanposter01]

The HSOT piece linked at the top says that the bill would:

• Agree to reduce annual fees to participating schools by a minimum of 20% when the total fund balance for the administering organization and any associated entity is 250% of the total expenses

A lot of nothing for a 20 cent decrease per student. So your average 3a schools save about $200/ year. Crazy to me.

 

[ocdavis31]

Smokescreen guys. It’s about power, control and payback.

 

[FreedomAlum]

A lot of nothing for a 20 cent decrease per student. So your average 3a schools save about $200/ year. Crazy to me.

A minimum of 20% and I don’t see any reason why the member schools shouldn’t get some of their money back if the association is operating in the black.
Frankly, I don’t see why the NCHSAA, sitting on $40 million in endowment money shouldn’t have been proactive enough to discount the membership fee for the schools by itself.

 

[Freshmanposter01]

A minimum of 20% and I don’t see any reason why the member schools shouldn’t get some of their money back if the association is operating in the black.
Frankly, I don’t see why the NCHSAA, sitting on $40 million in endowment money shouldn’t have been proactive enough to discount the membership fee for the schools by itself.

Yeah.i understand its minimum of 20%. I was just using that to show that the average NC 3A would save $200/ year off the $1000/ year they are paying now. Using our neighbors below (SC), they are paying over $2000/year for same amount of students. So half off the price of our neighboring state in 3A and we still should be taking more discounts off. I guess the goal of the politicians is to be in the red like SC.

 

[Freshmanposter01]

Smokescreen guys. It’s about power, control and payback.

Agreed 99%.
1% don't even know what's going on.lol.

 

[shutdownD24]

This is nothing but an old fashion power grab by politicians. It’s sad that many people cannot see beyond their own personal politics and bias to realize what’s is happening. Some people will co-sign anything their politics of choice choose to do instead of standing up for the right thing. When you look at how all this started and where we are now, it’s pretty ridiculous and sad. The most qualified people to govern sports in NC have been removed out of the equation and the voice of individual schools has been taken away to appease the feelings of a select few. A sad day in NC high school athletics and politics.

NCHSAA says new legislation was 'blindside tackle'

NCHSAA Commissioner Que Tucker indicated the association had no idea the new legislation was coming.

www.wral.com

 

[beamer24]

This is nothing but an old fashion power grab by politicians. It’s sad that many people cannot see beyond their own personal politics and bias to realize what’s is happening. Some people will co-sign anything their politics of choice choose to do instead of standing up for the right thing. When you look at how all this started and where we are now, it’s pretty ridiculous and sad. The most qualified people to govern sports in NC have been removed out of the equation and the voice of individual schools has been taken away to appease the feelings of a select few. A sad day in NC high school athletics and politics.

NCHSAA says new legislation was 'blindside tackle'

NCHSAA Commissioner Que Tucker indicated the association had no idea the new legislation was coming.

www.wral.com

Held up budget for 3 months for casinos. That blew up so they pulled this crap. I wish we had a decent 3rd party to vote for. I can't stand either party.

 

[Pisgah Bears]

All of this is about eliminating public education and going to charter schools .Not just happening here but all over the country .The new budget they just passed give more money to the Charter schools ,means less money for public schools.

 

[btango]

I have both supported and spoken out against the NCHSAA. I have seen good and not so good. I listened to every legislature hearing that was made public on this situation. I was involved in an interview with one of the sponsors. Was surprised at some of the statements I knew to be false.

A few decades ago Charlie Adams, then NCHSAA Commissioner, feared that high school sports would become obsolete due to costs especially catastrophic insurance coverage. The thought was to build a massive fund where ONLY the interest would be used to cover those costs. Many school administrators felt the future would be smaller schools and schools that had low income student bodies would be the major beneficiaries saving their ability to field athletic teams.

I personally see this as a power grab because one state senator did not get his way when he requested that the school in his district, Anson, should be reinserted into the playoffs after being deemed ineligible for the fight versus Richmond. I have never agreed with that rule, have requested it be modified, but the schools seemed to favor it.

The NCHSAA needed a full service not a new engine and transmission.

 

[shutdownD24]

Held up budget for 3 months for casinos. That blew up so they pulled this crap. I wish we had a decent 3rd party to vote for. I can't stand either party.

I hate the two party system also. The two party system, dark money, no term limits, and gerrymandering has created a corrupt political environment that’s unable to govern effectively for all people whether people want to believe it or not. The top one tenth of one percent always wins no matter who controls power. It will only get worse. The current political environment in NC does not have any real checks and balances when it comes to rogue politicians with wild hairs up their butt of the party in power.
“Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely”.

 

[BlueVols]

I've said it before - there are members of the legislature that will not be satisfied until Que falls on the sword. Good, bad, or indifferent, whatever our take - she rebelled when they wanted to look at the finances and thought she had cover from the Governor's office. She thought they couldn't do anything about it. Roy Cooper isn't going to ride in on his lame duck with his Antifa Light cadre' and save her. The quicker the Board of Directors get her to walk, the quicker this will end.

 

[crestcharger02]

All of this is about eliminating public education and going to charter schools .Not just happening here but all over the country .The new budget they just passed give more money to the Charter schools ,means less money for public schools.

Charter schools are public schools.

 

[Thunder_struck8712]

Charter schools are public schools.

Public schools that make people money, can kick kids out over academics, probably bend the rules to get certain kids in, play by a different set of rules, and lack accountability.

Sounds great doesn't it?