Two problems with playoff revisions

[tarheelg]

I'm not sure if anybody else has seen this article or heard the updates that we've seen so far regarding updates from the NCHSAA meeting yesterday, but I still see two problems; one that would have just a different problem with this year's teams that qualified, and a different one affecting those of us that attempt to project:

1-If I read it correctly, it says they're going back to allowing three automatic qualifiers from every conference, regardless of overall record and maxpreps ranking....so the Mid State 2A, which I say should have only had one team in this past year and still got two, will get three in next year

2-The article is not exactly clear on how they'll use maxpreps rankings but says they'll use "adjusted maxpreps rankings" that do not taking into account margin of victory....sooooo, if all they have to go on for these adjusted rankings is who you beat, why not just go back to using overall records like it was before this year? (and then conference record to break tie for last wild card spot, and only use maxpreps ranking to break ties for seeding within a tier) I suppose there's still an element of strength of schedule figuring in, (but how accurately can you gauge that when margin of victory is not part of the equation?)

 

[pantherpawnation]

I'm not sure if anybody else has seen this article or heard the updates that we've seen so far regarding updates from the NCHSAA meeting yesterday, but I still see two problems; one that would have just a different problem with this year's teams that qualified, and a different one affecting those of us that attempt to project:

1-If I read it correctly, it says they're going back to allowing three automatic qualifiers from every conference, regardless of overall record and maxpreps ranking....so the Mid State 2A, which I say should have only had one team in this past year and still got two, will get three in next yer

2-The article is not exactly clear on how they'll use maxpreps rankings but says they'll use "adjusted maxpreps rankings" that do not taking into account margin of victory....sooooo, if all they have to go on for these adjusted rankings is who you beat, why not just go back to using overall records like it was before this year? (and then conference record to break tie for last wild card spot, and only use maxpreps ranking to break ties for seeding within a tier) I suppose there's still an element of strength of schedule figuring in, (but how accurately can you gauge that when margin of victory is not part of the equation?)

 

[pantherpawnation]

This is soooooooo simple. If you don't have a .500 record or better you're not considered, period. Stop with the Maxpreps stuff. Forget strength of schedule, who beat who, etc..... Sounds like College Football. If your record isn't above .500 you should pack up the pads, helmets, cleats, basketballs, baseballs and wait til next year. OH, and save me the talk about conference strength. Problem is this; we've made it into "Participation Playoffs" so we don't hurt anyone schools / conference's feelings. Take the top two teams in each conference and ONE at large bid with above .500 and play flipping ball. Stop with the conference room long hours meetings trying to figure out who's in and who's out. IT'S SIMPLE - Not Rocket Science.

 

[bknights#77]

This is soooooooo simple. If you don't have a .500 record or better you're not considered, period. Stop with the Maxpreps stuff. Forget strength of schedule, who beat who, etc..... Sounds like College Football. If your record isn't above .500 you should pack up the pads, helmets, cleats, basketballs, baseballs and wait til next year. OH, and save me the talk about conference strength. Problem is this; we've made it into "Participation Playoffs" so we don't hurt anyone schools / conference's feelings. Take the top two teams in each conference and ONE at large bid with above .500 and play flipping ball. Stop with the conference room long hours meetings trying to figure out who's in and who's out. IT'S SIMPLE - Not Rocket Science.

+1

 

[TGT]

This is soooooooo simple. If you don't have a .500 record or better you're not considered, period. Stop with the Maxpreps stuff. Forget strength of schedule, who beat who, etc..... Sounds like College Football. If your record isn't above .500 you should pack up the pads, helmets, cleats, basketballs, baseballs and wait til next year. OH, and save me the talk about conference strength. Problem is this; we've made it into "Participation Playoffs" so we don't hurt anyone schools / conference's feelings. Take the top two teams in each conference and ONE at large bid with above .500 and play flipping ball. Stop with the conference room long hours meetings trying to figure out who's in and who's out. IT'S SIMPLE - Not Rocket Science.

What if a team played five non-conference games against very good opponents and end up 5-6 overall? Not very likely that something like that would happen, but a team playing such a schedule could be penalized for playing non-cupcakes.
My suggestion: conference champs are automatic, then the Simmons ranking system to fill out the wild cards.

 

[dogs79]

What if a team played five non-conference games against very good opponents and end up 5-6 overall? Not very likely that something like that would happen, but a team playing such a schedule could be penalized for playing non-cupcakes.
My suggestion: conference champs are automatic, then the Simmons ranking system to fill out the wild cards.

Why not conference champs automatic but seeded based on avg from 2 or 3 poles. Have 5 or 6 wins to qualify. Not crying but that would have put WRH 2 or 3 seed. Trask would have been in and Pender would not. Just because you win your conference should guarantee entry,only. Not seeding

 

[ocdavis31]

What if a team played five non-conference games against very good opponents and end up 5-6 overall? Not very likely that something like that would happen, but a team playing such a schedule could be penalized for playing non-cupcakes.
My suggestion: conference champs are automatic, then the Simmons ranking system to fill out the wild cards.

Exactly that happened to Thomasville in 2012. They had losses to North Davidson, Mt. Airy, Davie County, High Point Andrews, High Point Central and Southeast Guilford to start the season. Four of those six were larger than 2-A. Andrews and Mt. Airy were both very strong that year as well.
Granted, they would have made the playoffs in this scenario, because they finished second to Salisbury (in the infamous take a knee game). But Thomasville then went on to the third round of the playoffs, beating Maiden and Lincolnton before losing to eventual champion East Lincoln.
One of the big differences for Thomasville that year was the emergence of running back Gabe Brockett, our best defensive player. He gained five hundred yards in the first six games and over three thousand in the next eight, when they went 6-2.
That 3500+ yard performance is another of the many accomplishments that are not shown in the record book. But it also illustrates how a team can have the toughest schedules in the state and use that to grow into a playoff team.

 

[tarheelg]

I actually didn't mind the way they did it last year with only conference champions automatic, and everybody else a wild card, let wild cards qualify based on overall record, break tie for last one in by conference record, maxpreps rank only to break ties within tier of 1s, then tier of wild cards, but just get rid of the pod system to set up the bracket....and I don't care whether you count 10 games or 11, (was nice this year to not have to worry about that for projections though)

 

[Otis4411]

I actually didn't mind the way they did it last year with only conference champions automatic, and everybody else a wild card, let wild cards qualify based on overall record, break tie for last one in by conference record, maxpreps rank only to break ties within tier of 1s, then tier of wild cards, but just get rid of the pod system to set up the bracket....and I don't care whether you count 10 games or 11, (was nice this year to not have to worry about that for projections though)

You coming to East Duplin tomorrow night?

 

[Wizard of the East]

it the NCHSAA can make it worse I guarantee you they will. Remember back in the day they had a deal that if you beat a higher seeded team you inherited their seed? The stupidest thing I had ever heard of in playoff play

 

[Wizard of the East]

I'm not sure if anybody else has seen this article or heard the updates that we've seen so far regarding updates from the NCHSAA meeting yesterday, but I still see two problems; one that would have just a different problem with this year's teams that qualified, and a different one affecting those of us that attempt to project:

1-If I read it correctly, it says they're going back to allowing three automatic qualifiers from every conference, regardless of overall record and maxpreps ranking....so the Mid State 2A, which I say should have only had one team in this past year and still got two, will get three in next yer

2-The article is not exactly clear on how they'll use maxpreps rankings but says they'll use "adjusted maxpreps rankings" that do not taking into account margin of victory....sooooo, if all they have to go on for these adjusted rankings is who you beat, why not just go back to using overall records like it was before this year? (and then conference record to break tie for last wild card spot, and only use maxpreps ranking to break ties for seeding within a tier) I suppose there's still an element of strength of schedule figuring in, (but how accurately can you gauge that when margin of victory is not part of the equation?)

#1 Stupid #2 More stupid, the blind leading the blind.
Honestly you cant take the playoffs too seriously. I believe this was the worst year ever!

 

[tarheelg]

it the NCHSAA can make it worse I guarantee you they will. Remember back in the day they had a deal that if you beat a higher seeded team you inherited their seed? The stupidest thing I had ever heard of in playoff play

That really was one of the dumbest moves I remember in 25 years or more of following

 

[tarheelg]

You coming to East Duplin tomorrow night?

Nah, eating out with the wife and kids and in-laws tonight, followed by getting groceries....first Friday night in a long time where those were an option, will enjoy getting to bed earlier, just wish the late Friday nights could have lasted one more week

 

[tarheelg]

it the NCHSAA can make it worse I guarantee you they will. Remember back in the day they had a deal that if you beat a higher seeded team you inherited their seed? The stupidest thing I had ever heard of in playoff play

And by the way, if I remember correctly, in 1A in 1998, we had a #16 North Edgecombe win at #1 Camden in the 1st Rd 8-6, so NE played at home in the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th Rds against higher seeds

 

[tarheelg]

Just looked it up, and in 1998, #16 the North Edgecombe Warriors did go on the road to beat #1 Camden in the 1st Rd 8-6, then HOSTED #9 Williamston in 2nd Rd and won 30-0 (Williamston also beat Camden that year in regular season, but that non-conference loss was dropped for Camden to be #1 seed, #2 seed James Kenan only played 10 games and couldn't drop their 28-27 non-conference loss to Clinton), #16 NE hosted #4 Bunn (who they lost to in conference play) in 3rd Rd and won 8-6, then #16 NE hosted the regional final against #3 South Robeson and won 12-0, before losing in state finals to Starmount 22-20, falling just short in their bid to repeat, after running the table with a 15-0 season in 1997.

 

[btango]

You cannot just point to a .500 record. One team complaining that they did not make the playoffs had a 6-5 record. They did not beat any teams with more than three wins. Their non conference opponents had three wins total in their two wins and they lost to a 7-4 smaller classification team in the other non conference game. Won two games by one point in OT if conference and four conference two wins over teams with eleven total wins (one had one win and one had four wins). Does the .500 record really mean this team is better than a 5-7 team that played in a conference with powerhouses and played a 4A semifinalist or a team that played four games against super strong opponents?

The power ratings need to be tweaked but need to be used. The NCHSAA took away the winning percentage aspect. A much better option would have been to limit it to 21 or 28 points. A team that wins by 28 points is the equalivent to a team winning by 70 points.

 

[btango]

Really the bottom line is: TOO MANY TEAMS MAKE THE PLAYOFFS and there are TOO MANY SUBCLASSES / CHAMPIONS. Even with 1A and 4A reduced to 48 it is too many teams. Eight is too many subclasses playing for titles. One title for every 47 schools.

 

[Wizard of the East]

Really the bottom line is: TOO MANY TEAMS MAKE THE PLAYOFFS and there are TOO MANY SUBCLASSES / CHAMPIONS. Even with 1A and 4A reduced to 48 it is too many teams. Eight is too many subclasses playing for titles. One title for every 47 schools.

I wholeheartedly agree. 5 classifications (so splits) are enough