Catholic 28 East Forsyth 24

[Warhead1]

I just heard that since West got smacked by Page they have big time players who are all transferring to East Forsyth before the school year is over! Crazy how that works....I thought you were the most loyal East fans there was on these boards ForsythFootball? The more I see you post I dont think you are a fan or Booster I think you're maybe a parent of a player at East. You know an awful lot about the team and coaches and everything you have posted since the lost to Catholic sounds just like Parents I heard in the stands last night at East late in the 4th quarter. I normally sit on the visitors side at East but sat right near the 35 yard line on the scoreboard side and if that's the way some of you fans talk about your coaches I wouldn't be shocked at all if Willert and his staff took off.

 

[Deana_King]

I'm tired of people bashing coaches on here! Please stop it!

 

[ForsythFootball]

I just heard that since West got smacked by Page they have big time players who are all transferring to East Forsyth before the school year is over! Crazy how that works....I thought you were the most loyal East fans there was on these boards ForsythFootball? The more I see you post I dont think you are a fan or Booster I think you're maybe a parent of a player at East. You know an awful lot about the team and coaches and everything you have posted since the lost to Catholic sounds just like Parents I heard in the stands last night at East late in the 4th quarter. I normally sit on the visitors side at East but sat right near the 35 yard line on the scoreboard side and if that's the way some of you fans talk about your coaches I wouldn't be shocked at all if Willert and his staff took off.

No I just use to play for east back in the day a long long time ago and hate to see all they have built up get destroyed this up coming offseason. I wish I could say east will just have a rebuilding year but it's more than that any program at any level that loses more than 30 kids, more than 3 or 4 coaches it's gonna take a while and through the year I'll be here till east gets back to the level they need to My kid plays at Tabor for the record

 

[ForsythFootball]

What coaches are leaving? They have a DC who can't be much older than his mid 30's so I doubt he's retiring and Coach Willert isn't going anywhere.

I love the coaching, I think without a doubt this unfortunately came down to the young junior QB not being ready for this game. All In all it's a tough year next year with a completely different schedule and conference against (Glenn, West, Davie, and others who are very good.) the problem this year was they lost a lot of two or three year starters rather than losing a ton of back up players. I love east and hope I'm wrong but we shall see. Anyways good luck Catholic thanks for a great game

 

[UNCGrad2014]

I agree with Warhead 1000%. Suddenly great coaches forget how to coach in late November?? Bullshit.....

EF had a great team last year. They lost to a better Mallard Creek team that just took apart Page a week later. Willert coached his ass off in that game.

This years team was good but not great. Its hard to win in 4a or 4aa without a real passing game. They didnt have the kid who could pull the trigger. Ask Mallatd Creek fans what happens when this occurs. Did Palmieri forget how to coach??

I think there was a feeling amongst some guys that a move down to 4a would make it easier...no more Butler or Creek. Guess what? Catholic has made every regional final since 2009. They havent lost a conf game in like 100 years. They are real good.

This was one team being a little better than the other . Had zero to do with Willerts ability to coach.

I'm just glad that Catholic is leaving the SoMeck8. Gives the rest of us a chance now. Watch out for Harding next year. You heard it here first. Best of luck to those Union County 3A teams next year, you're definitely going to need it.

 

[nepsy7]

I heard a lot of Harding players are moving? They might continue to be Harding

 

[nepsy7]

Coaches don't play and unfortunately sometimes they can't save you when you play better Teams.

EF in my opinion has never been one Team away from winning it all. That's part of the problem, you guys believe because you played elite team close . You get a free pass on calling yourselfs. Runner ups! That's not how it works. You have to actually win the State Championship game. Your resume is not better than Wake Forest through out the years, Yet some how you believe you're a elite program. You are not. Win something other than beating up on teams in Forsyth county. That's all you got! Nothing more!

 

[Blue and Gold22]

SMH..... For 3 years I have listened to you guys go on and on about how EF is a top program in this state despite the fact that they really haven't won much of anything. One regional final appearance in 20 years. Every year its " wait till next year". " We have this guy, we have that guy, we cant be beat".

Now...about face. Its we are graduating players and turning over some coaches and we probably wont make the playoffs. LMAO..... All the kids are gonna transfer!!!

Let me let you in on a little secret. The top programs in the state graduate players every year and because of their success they lose coaches and guess what?? They keep winning. Ya know why?? Because they are the top programs in the state.

MAllard Creek turned over 30+ seniors in 2013. Won a title in 2014. They have won 3 straight titles with 3 different OC's, different Oline coaches, DB coaches, DC's etc,etc

Scotland lost a ton of seniors in 2011 and their head coach. BAck in the title game in 2013

Butler graduated a ton of seniors in 2009. Won a title in 2010 with a sophomore QB who had to start after their 4 star QB was suspended and quit before start of the season. Lost their head coach after 2010...... WOn a title in 2012.

If some coaching changes and a bunch of seniors graduating is enough to derail the program then in was never that good of a program to begin with.

 

[Sportsnut17]

I'm aware they aren't a state power but I meant in the area. I mean next year I'll be shocked if East Makes the playoffs I also predict West forsyth goes deep in the playoffs with the addition of lots of open enrollment transfers you are going to see players from Reagan and East Forsyth

I love the coaching, I think without a doubt this unfortunately came down to the young junior QB not being ready for this game. All In all it's a tough year next year with a completely different schedule and conference against (Glenn, West, Davie, and others who are very good.) the problem this year was they lost a lot of two or three year starters rather than losing a ton of back up players. I love east and hope I'm wrong but we shall see. Anyways good luck Catholic thanks for a great game

When you have hard core facts about coaches leaving post a link, until then stop the rumors.

 

[DATROOTH]

Ok, I understand what you're trying to say. But, let's look at some history.

2011 - East at home against a 9-2 Independence team. East takes 28-3 lead in first quarter. That's it for East. Independence shuts them down the rest of the way, to rally and win 29-28.

2012 - East playing Butler at Memorial stadium in Charlotte. East goes for a touchdown on a fourth and goal. A run by Garrison Duncan at the goal line was stopped. Butler goes on to win.

2013 - West Forsyth scores in the last minute of the game, to knock East Forsyth out of the playoffs.

2014 - East plays ninth seeded Providence and takes a 21-3 lead. Providence rallies and knocks out East in the first round 24-21.

2015 - East hosts Mallard Creek. East plays with the Mavericks and has a good lead with about 6 minutes to go. Mallard Creek comes from behind, scores on a 34 yard pass. James Smith runs in for the two point conversion. In overtime, Mallard Creek scores the winning points and goes on to win their third straight title.

I understand what you're saying. The "humps" and "us against the world" can play subconsciously without one ever knowing it. Take a look at the evidence, by way of past history.

If it's never about the "humps" or the "us against the world stuff" but only execution, then it falls on the coaching staff, as well as the players. The coaching staff should be preparing the players both in ways of x's and O's, as well as mentally.

Why is East not executing in the playoffs when,when they do during the regular season? Or is it that they aren't playing the quality of teams during the regular season, that prepares them adequately for the playoffs?

If it's just about the execution, then you have to ask why is the coaching staff doing the job during the regular season but not the playoffs?

Is it possible that coach Willert and the coaching staff at East, are great regular season coaches,but not so great playoff coaches? It happens. No intent to be derogatory, but just asking a question.

Mr. Honda that's more than legitimate statement. Sports is a bottom line. Either you're getting it done and closing the deal or not. My brother was on that East team that Independence came from down 28-3 to beat. It seemed Ike in that game also the 28-3 lead wasn't safe for whatever reason. I believe fortunes for East begin to escalate some as far as belief when we went to Butler that following year and gave them all they wanted. We just didn't have the offense then to put up points. The kids respond to the rhythm of the coaches. If they're uptight and coach not to lose your kids will ultimately play that way. We've had our chances.

 

[DATROOTH]

I agree with Warhead 1000%. Suddenly great coaches forget how to coach in late November?? Bullshit.....

EF had a great team last year. They lost to a better Mallard Creek team that just took apart Page a week later. Willert coached his ass off in that game.

This years team was good but not great. Its hard to win in 4a or 4aa without a real passing game. They didnt have the kid who could pull the trigger. Ask Mallatd Creek fans what happens when this occurs. Did Palmieri forget how to coach??

I think there was a feeling amongst some guys that a move down to 4a would make it easier...no more Butler or Creek. Guess what? Catholic has made every regional final since 2009. They havent lost a conf game in like 100 years. They are real good.

This was one team being a little better than the other . Had zero to do with Willerts ability to coach.

Can it be stated then maybe not questioning the ability to coach but responding to the pressure to get it done in the big games? I'm sure pressure can effect how coaches call games.

 

[DATROOTH]

I'm not jumping off the bandwagon. I just think it might be a little while before they're this good again. This is going to be controversial but from the games I've seen East play in the last couple years, I just don't think their coaching staff make the right decisions in critical possessions. Not going for 2 when it was 23 to 28 was a questionable call to me. Not running as much in the 2nd half was questionable play calling to me, continuing to throw with their current starting QB was questionable to me. Not setting up their return defense to defend against the fake punt, even though they've pulled the fake punt plenty of times. I know I'm just an armchair analyst over here, but I don't have that much faith in their coaching staff. I think with East schedule they get by with talent, and they've been doing so for the last few years.

This reminds me of Carver when they first dropped to the 2A and had to play Lincolnton at home. They lost, not because the players weren't better than their opponents, but because they were out coached.

The Wing T is a pain in the ass, but I'm not really complaining about the defensive side THAT much. They did make some questionable play calling like blitzing on 2nd and 18, but they did an okay job overall. Especially in the second half. The offensive play calling and penalties is what really bothers me.

In the game against Mallard Creek I felt as if they were up against better players and coaches. During this game I felt they had the upper hand in players, but I feel like the coaches let them down.

Again I'm not bashing East (I root for every Forsyth County team in the playoffs). I just think their coaches need to do a better job.

Carver wasn't out coached against Lincolnton that year. They brought in a behemoth from their defense in second half to run the ball we had no answer for. The last play Lincolnton converted for first down we told our kids to watch the flats that play was coming. Sometimes kids don't execute what you ask. What csn you do? We had some chances but didn't close the deal. Tip your hat to Lincolnton.

 

[DATROOTH]

With respect to east fans, but last night was the end of an East Forsyth legacy. They will lose upward of 30 seniors almost half start

It may not be next year but trust the cupboards far from bare. East brings almost all their sophomore jv's to varsity unless they really see a need for them to stay down. East basically has a de facto freshman team that I think lost one game this year. You probably won't replace a kid like Beal for a minute but they're in better shape than you will believe.

 

[DATROOTH]

So an end to the dynasty???

I don't believe so from what I saw in locker room.

 

[Blue and Gold22]

Can it be stated then maybe not questioning the ability to coach but responding to the pressure to get it done in the big games? I'm sure pressure can effect how coaches call games.

DATROOTH... I have seen all 3 " big games" EF has been involved in over the past 5 years. At least big playoff games. I cant speak to a single moment when pressure seems to have effected play calling . However, its impossible to quantify to be honest. There have been some moments where I thought the coaching staff failed to have the team focused properly.

The Providence loss and the Mallard Creek loss were both examples of squads celebrating a win much too early in my opinion. I think however that they are 16 and 17 year old kids and for most those were some first time moments.

I thought the 3 jump balls tossed in the OT against MC was a bit of a head scratcher. I think at least on first down you had to give Beal an opportunity to run it. If he gets nothing then maybe you throw it up to MArtin.

I think what you have here is largely a fan base that has overestimated time and again how good this team is/was and they just get beat by better teams. I think this happens in other areas as well. They play little outside of their area and they dominant everyone and then they run into a Butler, Indy, Catholic or Mallard Creek and they want to blame the coaches. They are just better with a few exceptions .

I believe that 2012 and 2015 were both very good teams but had gaps on on offense in 2012 and defense in 2015. Both of those squads I saw in the regular season and felt they were pretty good. This years squad was really just OK. Probably 10-15 teams that beat them this year. Don't think that is a coaching issue. I thought they would beat Catholic is a close one and lose to Dudley. As usual I underestimated Catholic like almost everyone does.

 

[mrhonda]

Can it be stated then maybe not questioning the ability to coach but responding to the pressure to get it done in the big games? I'm sure pressure can effect how coaches call games.

Absolutely. I've not coached football, but I have soccer. I've coached with coaches who practiced uptight, and the players became uptight before a big match with a very good team. They hardly ever won those games.

 

[mrhonda]

DATROOTH... I have seen all 3 " big games" EF has been involved in over the past 5 years. At least big playoff games. I cant speak to a single moment when pressure seems to have effected play calling . However, its impossible to quantify to be honest. There have been some moments where I thought the coaching staff failed to have the team focused properly.

The Providence loss and the Mallard Creek loss were both examples of squads celebrating a win much too early in my opinion. I think however that they are 16 and 17 year old kids and for most those were some first time moments.

I thought the 3 jump balls tossed in the OT against MC was a bit of a head scratcher. I think at least on first down you had to give Beal an opportunity to run it. If he gets nothing then maybe you throw it up to MArtin.

I think what you have here is largely a fan base that has overestimated time and again how good this team is/was and they just get beat by better teams. I think this happens in other areas as well. They play little outside of their area and they dominant everyone and then they run into a Butler, Indy, Catholic or Mallard Creek and they want to blame the coaches. They are just better with a few exceptions .

I believe that 2012 and 2015 were both very good teams but had gaps on on offense in 2012 and defense in 2015. Both of those squads I saw in the regular season and felt they were pretty good. This years squad was really just OK. Probably 10-15 teams that beat them this year. Don't think that is a coaching issue. I thought they would beat Catholic is a close one and lose to Dudley. As usual I underestimated Catholic like almost everyone does.

I know. Like I said in another post, I've underestimated Catholic many times.

 

[CatholicCougs14]

Let me be clear I said what dynasty because I do not see East Forsyth as one. Come on, one regional final since 1992. Since 2011, EF has been very very good, but in my opinion you gotta get to more than one regional final and state title game to qualify as a dynasty.
Dynasties are about championships not 3rd round playoff losses. EF has the potential to become a dynasty, but looking from 2011-16 those years are not a dynasty unless you count winning conference titles as dynasty.
The top dynasties in my opinion are: Indy(2000s), Butler(2000s-10s), Mallard Creek(2010s), Richmond(80s and 90s), Page(80s). Heck Rose in the 00s too.
I meant no disrespect to EF, but I just cannot call them a dynasty.

 

[CatholicCougs14]

I consider any team which traditionally makes it to the second round or more a big program. IN THE TRIAD, East is a big time program you don't have pick arguments I respected Catholic for walking off the field and not trashing East as mallard creek did so don't start jabs now. Also what I said is true and East Forsyth already has 2 or 3 coaches who have announced they will retire and I expect they will lose more plus they lose the seniors and as for the big time players all going to West next year that's from what I've heard and time will tell most would I would assume transfer before this school year isnover

Then we differ on opinions of what makes a dynasty. I was not picking an argument but I believe dynasties revolve around championships. Just my opinion.

 

[DATROOTH]

DATROOTH... I have seen all 3 " big games" EF has been involved in over the past 5 years. At least big playoff games. I cant speak to a single moment when pressure seems to have effected play calling . However, its impossible to quantify to be honest. There have been some moments where I thought the coaching staff failed to have the team focused properly.

The Providence loss and the Mallard Creek loss were both examples of squads celebrating a win much too early in my opinion. I think however that they are 16 and 17 year old kids and for most those were some first time moments.

I thought the 3 jump balls tossed in the OT against MC was a bit of a head scratcher. I think at least on first down you had to give Beal an opportunity to run it. If he gets nothing then maybe you throw it up to MArtin.

I think what you have here is largely a fan base that has overestimated time and again how good this team is/was and they just get beat by better teams. I think this happens in other areas as well. They play little outside of their area and they dominant everyone and then they run into a Butler, Indy, Catholic or Mallard Creek and they want to blame the coaches. They are just better with a few exceptions .

I believe that 2012 and 2015 were both very good teams but had gaps on on offense in 2012 and defense in 2015. Both of those squads I saw in the regular season and felt they were pretty good. This years squad was really just OK. Probably 10-15 teams that beat them this year. Don't think that is a coaching issue. I thought they would beat Catholic is a close one and lose to Dudley. As usual I underestimated Catholic like almost everyone does.

Again just being around the program as close as I am I can't speak for the Providence game but I know factually they weren't celebrating being up on Creek for what we knew Creek brought to the table. If anything we were in "Hog Heaven" and trying to figure out how to hold on to the lead. We knew Creek was gonna make a run. Again only speaking for Creek game and all other playoff games except Providence because I wasn't there. I agree you can't quantify how much pressure factors in but in these cases I believe it's been understated. I appreciate the staff at East also but just talking to them you can begin to sense an atmospheric change almost when these type games approach. Don't believe it's fear but I believe its just getting over the hump and they'll go to the next level once the monkeys off their backs and they win it much like Creek did once they beat Butler and I think you can make that same comparison for Butler getting over Independence. It'd be good for Forsyth Co. It's been long overdue.

 

[Ladge]

I'm just glad that Catholic is leaving the SoMeck8. Best of luck to those Union County 3A teams next year, you're definitely going to need it.

Interesting that 3 teams slated for Catholic's conference next year are still playing... Catholic, Weddington, and Monroe

 

[Ladge]

As far as coaching pressure, it certainly happens. The farther you go in the playoffs and your staff hasn't been there the more pressure. Shoot even if you have been there things can get tight. Same thing with certain teams. I talked to a former AL Brown assistant who told me when it came to Catholic there was a whole different demeanor that week.
Could that pressure have affected EF? Sure, maybe that accounts for the early penalties. I certainly don't think you get on the EF coaches. That is ridiculous. They are getting consistently deep in the playoffs. Last year OT, this year a 4 point loss. It's not like they are getting crushed.As a matter of fact would the tables be turned if after the fake punt, when Catholic had a motion penalty and then a bad snap led to a loss. Would Catholic's coaches catch the same ridicule for their team losing poise? Kids make mistakes, keeping it together comes with experience and sometimes luck.
It became obvious the EF QB didn't have the arm to go deep, nor was he going to pull the read to run. So they throw some wildcat in there. They completed what they could with the QB they have. Couldn't stay in wildcat especially once he got banged up.
Exciting game... now Dudley

 

[Blue and Gold22]

Again just being around the program as close as I am I can't speak for the Providence game but I know factually they weren't celebrating being up on Creek for what we knew Creek brought to the table. If anything we were in "Hog Heaven" and trying to figure out how to hold on to the lead. We knew Creek was gonna make a run. Again only speaking for Creek game and all other playoff games except Providence because I wasn't there. I agree you can't quantify how much pressure factors in but in these cases I believe it's been understated. I appreciate the staff at East also but just talking to them you can begin to sense an atmospheric change almost when these type games approach. Don't believe it's fear but I believe its just getting over the hump and they'll go to the next level once the monkeys off their backs and they win it much like Creek did once they beat Butler and I think you can make that same comparison for Butler getting over Independence. It'd be good for Forsyth Co. It's been long overdue.

Call it Hog Heaven if you like. I didn't notice it while I was at the game but watching it on tape you could see it as the camera panned the players both early on and more importantly late in the game. Coaches as well... Lot of " we did it" high fiving going on. I think that is a learning moment as well.

 

[nepsy7]

They were dancing like they were on Soultrain!

 

[CatholicCougs14]

They were dancing like they were on Soultrain!

LOL!!!

 

[ForsythFootball]

Brings the total to three coaches lost

 

[Sportsnut17]

View embedded media

Brings the total to three coaches lost

Where is Coach Frasher going to be AP?

 

[Eagles/Trojans13]

He'll be the AP at East Surry High School...and that's two coaches...our OL coach will more than likely retire at the end of the year but I wouldn't say that is 100% certain yet. The OL coach being the 2nd coach.

 

[ForsythFootball]

He'll be the AP at East Surry High School...and that's two coaches...our OL coach will more than likely retire at the end of the year but I wouldn't say that is 100% certain yet. The OL coach being the 2nd coach.

The OL coach has already announced his retirement before the season was over.

 

[Eagles/Trojans13]

That may be, but when you work with the guy on a daily basis and have known him for a while, I'm not ready to say he's done until he doesn't show up next August.

 

[DATROOTH]

They were dancing like they were on Soultrain!

Ok so both BlueandGold22 and Nepsy7 are both experts at interpreting body language and what it means when kids are excited on the field. At least my interpretation came from being in the locker room and what was said. You actually snatched an observation from watching video and drawing your own conclusions. Got it!! Don't believe kids dancing and being excited necessarily meant over confidence. Again for so long it was an accomplishment to get the kids to compete against the Charlotte schools now that we understand we can compete we're dancing and over confident. I get it you gotta find something. It's understood until East closes the deal they'll continue to be subject to these assumptions right or wrong.

 

[nepsy7]

Ok so both BlueandGold22 and Nepsy7 are both experts at interpreting body language and what it means when kids are excited on the field. At least my interpretation came from being in the locker room and what was said. You actually snatched an observation from watching video and drawing your own conclusions. Got it!! Don't believe kids dancing and being excited necessarily meant over confidence. Again for so long it was an accomplishment to get the kids to compete against the Charlotte schools now that we understand we can compete we're dancing and over confident. I get it you gotta find something.

I watched a lot of Soul Train growing up. I know my dancing. It was a live broadcast, not a video. They were doing the Gangman style dance, like they were riding a Horse(Mavericks). Seemed a little premature to me. I am also an expert at interpreting body language. Who told you?

 

[nepsy7]

East Forsyth players dance 3 minutes left in the game against Mallard Creek last year.

 

[sammyk]

Forsythfootball You know a lot about East what is your connection. And you have no idea who might be coming on board

 

[DATROOTH]

Video broadcast or live doesn't make you an expert. Again you're talking about young men. Let's say your accessment has some validity to it. East isn't the first program to celebrate prematurely. Whether in your mind or for experts like you to see it doesn't serve you well to celebrate early. It's a number of things that changed that game that wasn't one of them. East had been jawing from play one just like Creek. It's football. Again until East closes the deal these petty observations will continue. Appreciate the expertise from the couch.

 

[nepsy7]

Video broadcast or live doesn't make you an expert. Again you're talking about young men. Let's say your accessment has some validity to it. East isn't the first program to celebrate prematurely. Whether in your mind or for experts like you to see it doesn't serve you well to celebrate early. It's a number of things that changed that game that wasn't one of them. East had been jawing from play one just like Creek. It's football. Again until East closes the deal these petty observations will continue. Appreciate the expertise from the couch.

It happens man! Everybody does it. Not a big deal with me. I was just having fun. I was also standing up, and not on the Couch.

 

[PagePirates44]

The true elite-status programs and past dynasties in Triad football are in Greensboro... Page and Dudley

 

[CatholicCougs14]

The true elite-status programs and past dynasties in Triad football are in Greensboro... Page and Dudley

Yup. East Forsyth is not a dynasty

 

[DATROOTH]

It happens man! Everybody does it. Not a big deal with me. I was just having fun. I was also standing up, and not on the Couch.

I've been observing you all more so than I've been on here. I'm having fun myself. I'm familiar with all of you having followed this site since at least 2010. I knew already not to have thin skin on here. I'm good. It's been well documented East is not an elite program either regardless of who's accessment we follow from day to day. I know a lot of programs still wish they were in the position of East. We who understand football and are constantly around the program realize that and don't make the assertion we are elite. Those who continue to suggest East is elite we are not familiar with. That's why we're hard at work now to change that. There have been some coaching changes which I hope will help East conquer that hump someday. Safe travels to everyone headed to these knock down draggem out of a regional finals tonight and safety to all teams involved.

 

[2 big guns]

I think the 3A conference catholic is going to will be stronger than the conference catholic is currently in now