I see the angle you're going for here, but all that matters is what happens during the 48 minutes on the field in each of the 6 to 8 second bursts of action we call "plays". The fact is that East had success repeatedly moving the ball, but killed themselves with penalties, especially in the first half. I thought East did a good job slowing down (not shutting down) a VERY good offense, especially in the 2nd half. But in big games there are a few plays that go one way or the other that decide who wins. It's not about "humps" and "us against the world" stuff. I understand there are times where teams are beaten before the game starts. But that wasn't the case last year against MC and that wasn't the case last night against CC. That's happened with other Forsyth County teams in recent years but not East. EF came in ready to go and was right there late in both games in a position to get the win. But MC and CC made the key plays a little better than East. That's it. Just gotta execute every play.
Catholic 28 East Forsyth 24
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I see the angle you're going for here, but all that matters is what happens during the 48 minutes on the field in each of the 6 to 8 second bursts of action we call "plays". The fact is that East had success repeatedly moving the ball, but killed themselves with penalties, especially in the first half. I thought East did a good job slowing down (not shutting down) a VERY good offense, especially in the 2nd half. But in big games there are a few plays that go one way or the other that decide who wins. It's not about "humps" and "us against the world" stuff. I understand there are times where teams are beaten before the game starts. But that wasn't the case last year against MC and that wasn't the case last night against CC. That's happened with other Forsyth County teams in recent years but not East. EF came in ready to go and was right there late in both games in a position to get the win. But MC and CC made the key plays a little better than East. That's it. Just gotta execute every play.
Absolutely, all 11 so focused on stopping the run and CC receivers do a great job of selling a block and the slipping out into a route to go along with what's going on in the backfield. GREAT coaching!
They got beat by a better team last year and this year. Its really just that simple. 3rd and 4th round games are rarely physical mismatches. Penalties and execution are the difference.
If anything I think EF is to over hyped. #50 jumping around like a crazy kid after every tackle. Go back and watch the film on the Creek game last year. Lots of celebrating and taunting going on when EF took the early lead. The rah,rah stuff is fine for a play or two but you need to settle in and make plays.
That's what happen, when you play against better teams. They usually out execute you.
Watching the game film and #50 is very emotional but I don't complain about that too much. It is what it is.
CatholicCougs: At the start of the CC season there was a lot of hype about a kid named Angel Morrero (?) bing the next in the line of the Hood-Anderson line. I don't see his name much anymore. Does he still play and did he contribute last night?
50 jumping up and down on tackles 7 yards down the field (really)
I'm watching the game and East is OK and here is why:
1. You run the spread and your qb is no threat to run I mean ZERO!
2. DL while big is not disruptive and you have to get Catholic behind the chains
3. Db's while they look the part they were confused on a number of key pass plays that cost them especially at the end of the half - 81 just waltzed into the middle of the field and no one had a clue
4. OL big but not overpowering you can't get sacked by a 3 man line on a roll-out by the back side lineman
5. QB must be young because he has very little pocket awareness
They look better than they play sorta like West Forsyth when I saw them.
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He broke his leg on Sept 30th, vs Harding. He is out of a boot now, but he is done for year.
Look at the results of West in games against top shelf teams and the results of East in those situations. That is an insult to East. West isn't even close to being competitive.
There were three massive momentum swings in this game. The first was Catholic's TD with 10 seconds left before the half ended. Even though EF got the ball to start the second half it gave Catholic momentum.
Also the fake punt run from the CC 45 that gained 21 yards was a huge momentum shift really took the air out of EF and their crowd.
I would also say the Jack Lowe pick with 3 minutes to go was also a huge play and it was especially since EF had plenty of time to get down the field with 0 timeouts.
Also the fake punt run from the CC 45 that gained 21 yards was a huge momentum shift really took the air out of EF and their crowd.
I would also say the Jack Lowe pick with 3 minutes to go was also a huge play and it was especially since EF had plenty of time to get down the field with 0 timeouts.
Also that pick I believe was karma, on the previous play CC's #81 was hit has the ball was being thrown to him way before the ball got there and no flag was thrown.
Catholics weakness if they have one is their secondary why want more schools push the ball down the field on them? The front 7 is the strength. The 2 deep safeties are off why not throw underneath routes in front of them? Just seems obvious. I know the qb has to be able to throw it but man it looks wide open. I guess easier said than done.
Catholic gives up a ton of underneath stuff. They've run this 2 deep zone for years, but when your defense executes just as well as your offense does it can be tough.
Plus CC's front 7 has really improved in terms of coverage and getting to the QB.
They want you to throw those routes. They are betting that 98% of HS QBs cant be accurate enough to make thos throws consitently and move the chains. They dont miss tackles and inside the 30 the windows start to close up quickly.
From watching the game last night, a good team with a good run game can score on them. What's tricky is stoping CC offense. I'm tempted to go down to Charlotte next week to see what a dual threat QB can do to them. I already know what a hard running RB can do against them. Dudley's defense is a also better than East, but I still think CC can put points up against them.
Forsyth offered no threat from the qb position in terms of running the ball. That makes it a lot easier. Catholic does what it has to do to win. Sign of a well coached team!
Making the statement that both look the part but neither play like they look IMO. EF has one real offensive weapon other than that not a whole lot there. #3 could be awesome but he doesn't get the targets Not trying to get agreement just the way I see it. Was very unimpressed with West and East while better they are not what I expected to see from a team that has a number of d1 athletes and major size for a hs team. I couldn't tell who the d1 secondary players were if I didn't know they had 2 (that is the look the part but not playing the part I'm talking about) Beal is as good as advertised. He is a warrior.
That's why I stated it was speculative. In the end it comes down to execution. After a while it gets to be somewhat of the old Cubs curse thing between the ears. I dont subscribe to curses but the mental aspect of sports is as important as the competition. Almost seems like they're waiting for the other shoe to drop. That what can go wrong will type of thing. I honestly believe it's in their heads now too. Not so much competitively because they've proven they can compete but just closing the deal for them.
Again play action and a kick butt run game along with minimal D Line pressure nullifies good DB's all day. I don't believe after that first sack the Catholic QB was in consistent duress any more during the game.
East still hasn't covered a screen pass. not sure where the backers were at?
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Ok, I understand what you're trying to say. But, let's look at some history.
2011 - East at home against a 9-2 Independence team. East takes 28-3 lead in first quarter. That's it for East. Independence shuts them down the rest of the way, to rally and win 29-28.
2012 - East playing Butler at Memorial stadium in Charlotte. East goes for a touchdown on a fourth and goal. A run by Garrison Duncan at the goal line was stopped. Butler goes on to win.
2013 - West Forsyth scores in the last minute of the game, to knock East Forsyth out of the playoffs.
2014 - East plays ninth seeded Providence and takes a 21-3 lead. Providence rallies and knocks out East in the first round 24-21.
2015 - East hosts Mallard Creek. East plays with the Mavericks and has a good lead with about 6 minutes to go. Mallard Creek comes from behind, scores on a 34 yard pass. James Smith runs in for the two point conversion. In overtime, Mallard Creek scores the winning points and goes on to win their third straight title.
I understand what you're saying. The "humps" and "us against the world" can play subconsciously without one ever knowing it. Take a look at the evidence, by way of past history.
If it's never about the "humps" or the "us against the world stuff" but only execution, then it falls on the coaching staff, as well as the players. The coaching staff should be preparing the players both in ways of x's and O's, as well as mentally.
Why is East not executing in the playoffs when,when they do during the regular season? Or is it that they aren't playing the quality of teams during the regular season, that prepares them adequately for the playoffs?
If it's just about the execution, then you have to ask why is the coaching staff doing the job during the regular season but not the playoffs?
Is it possible that coach Willert and the coaching staff at East, are great regular season coaches,but not so great playoff coaches? It happens. No intent to be derogatory, but just asking a question.
I see all the bandwagon East fans jumping off real quick lol. Those same coaches who were all world are all the sudden the reason you can't get over the hump. Give me a break.... Could it be that East Forsyth lost last year and this year to better teams? Could it be that East Forsyth was overachieving all year? I remember watching the East/Page game this year and I thought that East was really hurting at some spots OL/QB being the main spots. They seemed to hide those flaws the last 6 to 7 weeks of the season. Once you get in the playoffs good teams will find those weaknesses and expose them. Everyone could say bad coaching but the coaching didn't tell the QB to throw to the other team. The coaching didn't tell the Punt Return team to fall asleep and take the play off. The coaching didn't tell the kids to get a holding penalty that took a TD off the board and they had to settle for a FG. Fact is Catholic is a damn good team and deserve some credit. That Wing T is hell to defend and it makes those DBs think run. It takes some real discipline to be able to come down on the run like a mad man then be able to read pass and stay on top of those vertical routes. I know cause we use to run it at NWG and I saw coach Woodruff and his staff out system more athletic teams every year even East Forsyth. Catholic has only 1 loss and although East has some better players in my mind Catholic is a better team. The better team won last night and East fought hard and was a play or two away from winning and going to another Semi Final game. Great season EF good luck to Catholic next week.
I agree with Warhead 1000%. Suddenly great coaches forget how to coach in late November?? Bullshit.....
EF had a great team last year. They lost to a better Mallard Creek team that just took apart Page a week later. Willert coached his ass off in that game.
This years team was good but not great. Its hard to win in 4a or 4aa without a real passing game. They didnt have the kid who could pull the trigger. Ask Mallatd Creek fans what happens when this occurs. Did Palmieri forget how to coach??
I think there was a feeling amongst some guys that a move down to 4a would make it easier...no more Butler or Creek. Guess what? Catholic has made every regional final since 2009. They havent lost a conf game in like 100 years. They are real good.
This was one team being a little better than the other . Had zero to do with Willerts ability to coach.
EF had a great team last year. They lost to a better Mallard Creek team that just took apart Page a week later. Willert coached his ass off in that game.
This years team was good but not great. Its hard to win in 4a or 4aa without a real passing game. They didnt have the kid who could pull the trigger. Ask Mallatd Creek fans what happens when this occurs. Did Palmieri forget how to coach??
I think there was a feeling amongst some guys that a move down to 4a would make it easier...no more Butler or Creek. Guess what? Catholic has made every regional final since 2009. They havent lost a conf game in like 100 years. They are real good.
This was one team being a little better than the other . Had zero to do with Willerts ability to coach.
I'm not jumping off the bandwagon. I just think it might be a little while before they're this good again. This is going to be controversial but from the games I've seen East play in the last couple years, I just don't think their coaching staff make the right decisions in critical possessions. Not going for 2 when it was 23 to 28 was a questionable call to me. Not running as much in the 2nd half was questionable play calling to me, continuing to throw with their current starting QB was questionable to me. Not setting up their return defense to defend against the fake punt, even though they've pulled the fake punt plenty of times. I know I'm just an armchair analyst over here, but I don't have that much faith in their coaching staff. I think with East schedule they get by with talent, and they've been doing so for the last few years.
This reminds me of Carver when they first dropped to the 2A and had to play Lincolnton at home. They lost, not because the players weren't better than their opponents, but because they were out coached.
The Wing T is a pain in the ass, but I'm not really complaining about the defensive side THAT much. They did make some questionable play calling like blitzing on 2nd and 18, but they did an okay job overall. Especially in the second half. The offensive play calling and penalties is what really bothers me.
In the game against Mallard Creek I felt as if they were up against better players and coaches. During this game I felt they had the upper hand in players, but I feel like the coaches let them down.
Again I'm not bashing East (I root for every Forsyth County team in the playoffs). I just think their coaches need to do a better job.
Like I mentioned to Warhead. I don't think East coaches are that good. I know they have a good W-L record, but I think they've been getting by on talent more so than their coaching.
Mallard Creek was better than East in every way last year. I'm still surprised that they were close to beating them. I honestly thought the road for East was tougher this year than last year if they had made it to the regional championship game. CC and Dudley would have been tough.
With your last point; the coaching staff is part of the team. But I believe it was Willert and his coaching staff that dropped the ball tonight.
With respect to east fans, but last night was the end of an East Forsyth legacy. They will lose upward of 30 seniors almost half start
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@Blue and Gold and Warhead: Okay, I usually like and agree with many of your posts. I'm not really disagreeing totally with your posts this time. But, I will ask the question: You say East lost to a better team last year and last night. Okay. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. So, let's look again at 2011, 2012, 2013 and 2014. Did East lose to a better team each of those years? Did East not execute in all of those games? If it boils down to execution, then why aren't they executing in those games?
During that same 2011 - 2016 time frame, East has an overall regular season record of 60-6, a .910 winning percentage. In the playoffs, during that time, they are 9-6, with a winning percentage of .600. Against Charlotte teams in those playoffs, the Eagles are 3-3, winning percentage .500.
I'm not saying what it is, because I really don't know. What is causing such a drop in winning percentage, once East gets out of their regular season? Execution? Playing better teams?
Let's take a look at some of the elite programs below.
Butler - Since 2011, they have a regular season record of 55-9, a .860 winning percentage. For the playoffs, during that time, they have a playoff record of 14-5, a winning percentage of .740.
Mallard Creek - Since 2011, they have a regular season record of 57-6, a winning percentage of .900. In the playoffs they have a record of 22-3, with a winning percentage of .880.
Charlotte Catholic - They have a regular season record since 2011 of 57-6, with a winning percentage of .900. In the playoffs they have a record of 23-4, a winning percentage of .850.
None of these teams have as big a drop off in winning percentage in the playoffs from the regular season, as East Forsyth has had.
So, I do ask the question. What goes on with East where there is such a drop off in winning percentage from regular season to the playoffs? Something is causing the drop off that Butler, Mallard Creek and Catholic haven't had.
Okay, so if it's not the "hump" to get over, then is it poorer execution? If it's poorer execution, then it falls on the players, as well as the coaches as teachers.
Is it because they've played good teams? Butler, Mallard Creek and Catholic have all played good teams in the playoffs.
If it's none of the above, then it falls to the fact that East just hasn't had as good of players and naturally leading to not having as good of teams. If this is the case, then East cannot claim to be an elite team, but only a good, contending team.
Now some will get upset at this post. That's fine. But keep in mind, I don't have the answers. All I know is from their playoff history since 2011, when their program seemed to really improve, something has happened to cause a drop off in winning percentage in their playoff experience, that Butler, Mallard Creek and Catholic have not had. That's all I'm saying.
I'm aware they aren't a state power but I meant in the area. I mean next year I'll be shocked if East Makes the playoffs I also predict West forsyth goes deep in the playoffs with the addition of lots of open enrollment transfers you are going to see players from Reagan and East Forsyth transfer to West Forsyth and I can say it is single handily the most disappointing thing to see. Open enrollment will have never been used at such large scale as it will next year and it will be why I don't really support West Forsyth next year when they win a few big games
Honda....i dont think we need to break down the history of East Forsyth football . Its pretty simple.
2012 they had a great defensive squad and an average offense with no vertical passing game. Willert did a great job shutting one of the best offensive teams in the history of the state and about 7 D1 studs on it. Lost to ,better squad.
2015 they had an elite offensive team with some serious game breakers and a very good Oline but they ran into a stacked Creek squad that had maybe the most clutch QB in the history of the state and they couldnt close the deal.
Both teams probably good enough to win titles had they not faced those teams.
This year they had a good squad but not really elite that had a couple holes. I dont think this one was a top 5 team.
Willert has built a very good program. Coaching hasnt had anything to do with the losses. They were just a score or two behind. The Charlotte schools for the most part since 2000 have beaten just about everyone in the state. Not just the Forsyth county schools.
I consider any team which traditionally makes it to the second round or more a big program. IN THE TRIAD, East is a big time program you don't have pick arguments I respected Catholic for walking off the field and not trashing East as mallard creek did so don't start jabs now. Also what I said is true and East Forsyth already has 2 or 3 coaches who have announced they will retire and I expect they will lose more plus they lose the seniors and as for the big time players all going to West next year that's from what I've heard and time will tell most would I would assume transfer before this school year isnover
They lost 25 or more Seniors last year including your best two players in Nique and Springs and people said the same thing. I saw that JV team East Forsyth may not be in the talk to compete for a State Title next year in the preseason but for you guys saying East could miss the playoffs? Really? You East fans are really some of the most spoiled fans I've ever seen. You lose two games this year and you are out of your minds. Talking about your coaches can't coach and all your staff is leaving along with the HC who is leaving or should be. Every year I hear the same talk and every year East is one of the top 3 teams in the Triad area.
I saw your JV team at NW and its loaded with talent. Some of those JV kids could start at some of the teams you played this year and I'm talking their Varsity squads. You guys have a couple 6'1 WRs two 6'4" DLs and every DB on your JV team looked to be 6' or taller and could flat out run. Lets not forget you guys have one of the top Safety recruits in the nation in sophomore Khalid Martin. In my mind East will be better off next year when you guys aren't on here screaming they will win every game by 40+ every week. I still think East will be better than every team in their new Conference going into this year. If you don't think so just remember I called it here 1st. Then with the realignment East will stay small 4A and teams like Dudley and Catholic wont be there. This team could be flying under the radar and be right in the 2nd or 3rd round hunt this time next year and all of yall will be telling us why Willert is the best coach in the State again.
Also, to the East people saying the coaching is bad all the sudden. I know what I've seen and Willert and his DC are 2 of the best in the area. You East fans better quit talking so much junk about your coaches you might just get what you want and they may leave. I remember hearing NW fans say the same thing about coach Woody and the next thing you know we get our new coaches and we're getting smoked by 50. Be careful what you wish for.
What coaches are leaving? They have a DC who can't be much older than his mid 30's so I doubt he's retiring and Coach Willert isn't going anywhere.
Someone posted recently that Butler would have won so many titles in a row if Mallard Creek hadn't been there the last 3 years. But since they had won a few already, they were given a pass for struggling against MC for the last few years (this was before they beat MC in Rd 2). I would argue, like you said B&G, that EF would have 2 titles in the last 4 years had it not been for 2012 Butler and 2015 MC. Fact is it didn't happen, but would the coaching in last night's game be viewed differently if Willert had 2 rings? Instead, everyone wants to blame someone so it's gotta be the coaching.
I don't think coaching is the problem but the schedule does contribute in my opinion. East plays as tough a non-conf schedule as they can with Forsyth county tying their hands for the most part. But playing WF, MT and Reagan don't prepare a team for CC, MC and Butler. They have had Page on there the last few years but one tough game so early in the season and then a cupcake conference makes it hard for a team to get comfortable executing late in tight games. They are well coached but when they make a mistake in the regular season, they can sometimes cover it up with athleticism and even if they don't, they are up by so much it doesn't matter. Anyone who has seen EF play knows that Willert is driving home execution every play even when they are up 30 late in the 4th because he knows it is going to matter at some point. But when there is no urgency due to the threat of a loss in the player's minds to play clean all the time, it's hard to flip the switch late in the playoffs. That's how you get games like the last 2 years. They play well enough most of the plays to win, but there are just enough mistakes sprinkled in that they can't overcome. Coaches don't make tackles, throw or catch passes or block anyone. Kids gotta execute every play and I can only hope that experiences like these will continue to harden them since they don't get it during the season.
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Seriously?? Don't come on here talking about what you heard about players going to West. Willert has built something really good and needs the community support, not a bunch of bogus trash talk by supposed "fans". Since there will be so many spots available with all the coaches leaving, why don't you go volunteer? I'm sure he would appreciate the help!
