How is this right?

[wncbowhunter]

Where do you get the "thousands of students" from? Just because the opportunity to pull form surrounding areas (25 miles) doesn't mean they "draw" them. Charters are choice schools and 99% of all kids at Charter School CHOOSE to go there for academic purposes. Plus, the lottery doesn't guarantee ANYBODY a spot at the school. Both of my children attend a charter and we were on a waiting list for 3 years before we got into the charter. We applied for the lottery but never got a call. Don't let a school that lives in an open school district damper all charters. Not trying to argue as I see your points as well but as a parent of charters schools I see both sides.

First, I am not trying to argue with you either but this is one of the arguments that comes up every time about the lottery system. I have no doubts that your children were on a waiting list for 3 years, congratulations on them being accepted.

The issues are not with all charters but no one can convince me that there are not certain charters that accept kids based on athletics instead of academics. If all were simply academic choices the same few schools would not have multiple kids with college scholarship offers every year. It just does not happen at the 1A level. Please forgive me if I get the wrong school here but it was either WSP or BM that had more females offered D1 scholarships for basketball than all other 1a programs combined from like 2010-2015.
(No I do not have the newspaper article I saw this in to back up my statement, so no I can't prove it.) That is not just a run of good kids who happen to be selected for academic purposes.

As far as the school where your children are at I am NOT saying they are playing against the rules, not if not all charters are within the rules. It is just hard when the majority of 1A kids start their season knowing there chance of winning a title is slim to none. Ask the Avery boys they have had a great 4 year run, been able to compete with anyone at the 1A level until they meet WSP. Avery has had multiple kids offered to play at the next level and even have a couple this year but it will take a more than 1 HUGE upset for them to come out of the west.

As far as playing up man it is tough enough to play the games some of these rural school and get home at midnight or 1 in the morning now.

Anyway please don't take this personal, it is in no way directed toward you or your family.

And just for note the Mitchell women did beat a charter school in the first round for there first playoff win in several years. But now on to Cherokee, which will take a Huge upset for them to win.

 

[Wildcat10fan]

What do people usually say when they think something is not fair or is dirty ? Follow the money trail !!! Maybe our State Attorney General should request a investigation into this corrupt organization and see if anyone is breaking the law or if the NCHSAA IS NOT being fair to every student athlete by allowing such unfair competition. Is this not the mission statement for the NCHSAA. EQUALITY for ALL !!!!!!

 

[3daughters]

wncbowhunter.....for historical purposes since 2009-2010 BM has had one player go to Carolina (M. Buckland) and one go to W. Carolina (J. Brown). The Neiters sisters went to Harvard and Dartmouth but don't know if you would consider the Ivy League D-1. In the last 8 seasons BM has won the NW Conference 1 time (2013-2014). In the last 8 years BM has in conference finished 2nd, 2nd, 3rd, 2nd, 1st, 4th, 4th and 3rd. During the last 4 years of their run of state titles BM only won their own conference that 1 time.

 

[bulldog nation2014]

wncbowhunter.....for historical purposes since 2009-2010 BM has had one player go to Carolina (M. Buckland) and one go to W. Carolina (J. Brown). The Neiters sisters went to Harvard and Dartmouth but don't know if you would consider the Ivy League D-1. In the last 8 seasons BM has won the NW Conference 1 time (2013-2014). In the last 8 years BM has in conference finished 2nd, 2nd, 3rd, 2nd, 1st, 4th, 4th and 3rd. During the last 4 years of their run of state titles BM only won their own conference that 1 time.

Ivy League is D1

 

[bareman]

we play 2 of the "evil empire " in the 2nd round tomorrow night; will report

 

[Wildcat10fan]

we play 2 of the "evil empire " in the 2nd round tomorrow night; will report

You will have no trouble at all. They have no rebounding at all so if you have any size you can win on that alone. They have no speed but they do have one good shooter back from last year. They play in a soft conference

 

[new_dawg]

Change has been brought up in relation to charters...nothing happens...Que doesnt want to take it on.

Get back on your turnip truck...just curious...did you or one of your grandkids go to a 1a school? Doubt it.

Yes sir, I certainly did. I graduated from South Stanly High School in the early 1970's.

And Que has no say in whether to take it on or not. If it's brought up by the Board of Directors, it MUST BE TAKEN ON. Regarding that, the BOD addressed the issue last year by forming a task force of public and charter administrators, and I believe you will see some action taken eventually.

The NCHSAA has to act with due diligence and gather enough data to back up their decision. And one school doing well (like W-S Prep) is not going to be enough to force a change in policy statewide.. A policy implemented without data (and lots of it) to back it up will result in lawsuits that will slow the process down even more. Charters are still a fairly new animal not just in NC, but nationwide, and I don't know of any states right now that do anything different with charters (which are, by definition, public schools) than what we do.

Look, I'm not wanting to get into a spitting contest here, but the NCHSAA can't afford to make a knee jerk reaction to this issue. I agree with you that it's a problem, but I don't agree that the NCHSAA staff is part of it. They work for the BOD, and only the BOD can set policy.

I'm stepping off the soap box (or maybe it's a turnip box) now.

 

[bareman]

the NCHSAA makes recommendations and 99.9 % of the time the "Board" goes along with them...there's only about 2 maybe 3 ( board members) that stand for the 1A's....as for the charters, preps & magnets: one had 2 campuses and 1 has a 2 week period to move around in Jan/Feb....come on guys!!

 

[3daughters]

And athletes move between Mt Airy and North Surry routinely...been going on forever. Lots of different sides in this annual basketball playoff discussion.

 

[Mont1963]

the NCHSAA makes recommendations and 99.9 % of the time the "Board" goes along with them...there's only about 2 maybe 3 ( board members) that stand for the 1A's....as for the charters, preps & magnets: one had 2 campuses and 1 has a 2 week period to move around in Jan/Feb....come on guys!!

EXACTLY!!!!

 

[Mont1963]

Yes sir, I certainly did. I graduated from South Stanly High School in the early 1970's.

And Que has no say in whether to take it on or not. If it's brought up by the Board of Directors, it MUST BE TAKEN ON. Regarding that, the BOD addressed the issue last year by forming a task force of public and charter administrators, and I believe you will see some action taken eventually.

The NCHSAA has to act with due diligence and gather enough data to back up their decision. And one school doing well (like W-S Prep) is not going to be enough to force a change in policy statewide.. A policy implemented without data (and lots of it) to back it up will result in lawsuits that will slow the process down even more. Charters are still a fairly new animal not just in NC, but nationwide, and I don't know of any states right now that do anything different with charters (which are, by definition, public schools) than what we do.

Look, I'm not wanting to get into a spitting contest here, but the NCHSAA can't afford to make a knee jerk reaction to this issue. I agree with you that it's a problem, but I don't agree that the NCHSAA staff is part of it. They work for the BOD, and only the BOD can set policy.

I'm stepping off the soap box (or maybe it's a turnip box) now.

I think this issue could be addressed with minimal study. It just doesn't make sense to have Charters and regular schools together in the playoffs. If the situation were reversed and the Charters were getting "slaughtered" all the time by the "regular" schools, this change should still be made. It's only fair to both set of schools.

There is a NCISAA for a reason!! They are not part of our playoffs.

 

[BD Warrior]

The bottom line is prep/charter schools never should be in the playoffs with public schools. I don't care if remote schools like Cherokee and Murphy don't see the competition all season, they shouldn't have too. They are small 1A schools that pull from a very small area. Let teams like WS Prep play in the 3A or 4A and lets see how good they are? It is just not right and there is no denying it!

 

[bulldog nation2014]

The bottom line is prep/charter schools never should be in the playoffs with public schools. I don't care if remote schools like Cherokee and Murphy don't see the competition all season, they shouldn't have too. They are small 1A schools that pull from a very small area. Let teams like WS Prep play in the 3A or 4A and lets see how good they are? It is just not right and there is no denying it!

From what I was told there are legalities behind it. Not sure of the details but to me in which most states use the multiplier system which could be simply identified as any school that accepts students within a 25mi radius which is their identified boundary will have a multiplier of 2.

 

[bulldog nation2014]

The bottom line is prep/charter schools never should be in the playoffs with public schools. I don't care if remote schools like Cherokee and Murphy don't see the competition all season, they shouldn't have too. They are small 1A schools that pull from a very small area. Let teams like WS Prep play in the 3A or 4A and lets see how good they are? It is just not right and there is no denying it!

Very interesting article. Would love to know your thoughts on this.

http://highschoolsports.cleveland.c...nal-fight-between-public-and-private-schools/

 

[Mont1963]

Very interesting article. Would love to know your thoughts on this.

http://highschoolsports.cleveland.c...nal-fight-between-public-and-private-schools/

I go back to my original thoughts! There is not a legal situation having 8 state champions in football !! Why not have 5 state champions in basketball, baseball, etc. Instead of 2 state champions per classification, there would be 4 (1A, 2A, 3A, 4A) traditional state champions and 1 for non-traditional public schools. Or even 2 if there are enough 2A sized Charters!!

 

[bulldog nation2014]

I go back to my original thoughts! There is not a legal situation having 8 state champions in football !! Why not have 5 state champions in basketball, baseball, etc. Instead of 2 state champions per classification, there would be 4 (1A, 2A, 3A, 4A) traditional state champions and 1 for non-traditional public schools. Or even 2 if there are enough 2A sized Charters!!

From what I have discussed due to legalities the first step which would be a must to officially define traditional and non traditional until that happens nothing else will follow. Right now these schools by majority are defined as public schools as a group. If they split them out without defining it could be viewed as segregation in the courts.

 

[FridayNiteLights1217]

I think this issue could be addressed with minimal study. It just doesn't make sense to have Charters and regular schools together in the playoffs. If the situation were reversed and the Charters were getting "slaughtered" all the time by the "regular" schools, this change should still be made. It's only fair to both set of schools.

There is a NCISAA for a reason!! They are not part of our playoffs.

If they were getting "slaughtered" they would change to the NCISAA. The public schools don't have that choice.They want a stacked deck and love the advantage they have.

 

[3daughters]

If they were getting "slaughtered" they would change to the NCISAA. The public schools don't have that choice.They want a stacked deck and love the advantage they have.

If they were getting slaughtered in the NCHSAA the last thing any school would want to do is join the NCISAA...lol.

 

[Wildcat10fan]

The bottom line is prep/charter schools never should be in the playoffs with public schools. I don't care if remote schools like Cherokee and Murphy don't see the competition all season, they shouldn't have too. They are small 1A schools that pull from a very small area. Let teams like WS Prep play in the 3A or 4A and lets see how good they are? It is just not right and there is no denying it!

Amen, it is that simple !! Why in the world do people think it's complicated. It's not. Where is common sense. It's a no brainer but our leaders at the NCHSAA are close minded and it doesn't fit their hidden agenda

 

[Mont1963]

From what I have discussed due to legalities the first step which would be a must to officially define traditional and non traditional until that happens nothing else will follow. Right now these schools by majority are defined as public schools as a group. If they split them out without defining it could be viewed as segregation in the courts.

Charter schools are clearly defined by the State Board of Education. They have their own department in Raleigh and report to the Office of Charter schools. They are on a different "track" than regular public schools. DPI can tell you exactly how many Charters there are and their names!

 

[bulldog nation2014]

Charter schools are clearly defined by the State Board of Education. They have their own department in Raleigh and report to the Office of Charter schools. They are on a different "track" than regular public schools. DPI can tell you exactly how many Charters there are and their names!

I am just telling what I was told. They are all under the umbrella of "public" schools in NC

 

[Mont1963]

I am just telling what I was told. They are all under the umbrella of "public" schools in NC

They are under the the State Board of Education, however, they are clearly a different animal than regular schools.

Copied the info. below from DPI website:

OFFICE OF CHARTER SCHOOLS

DIRECTOR :: Dave Machado, Director

WHAT IS A CHARTER SCHOOL?

Charter schools are public schools of choice that are authorized by the State Board of Education and operated by independent non-profit boards of directors. State and local tax dollars are the primary funding sources for charter schools, which have open enrollment and cannot discriminate in admissions, associate with any religion or religious group, or charge-tuition. Charter schools operate with freedom from many of the regulations that govern district schools, but charter schools are held accountable through the State assessment and accountability system.

 

[Big43]

What do people usually say when they think something is not fair or is dirty ? Follow the money trail !!! Maybe our State Attorney General should request a investigation into this corrupt organization and see if anyone is breaking the law or if the NCHSAA IS NOT being fair to every student athlete by allowing such unfair competition. Is this not the mission statement for the NCHSAA. EQUALITY for ALL !!!!!!

The NCHSAA will not split any other sports due to the cost. Football is the only profitable sport due to the attendance and less travel due to one game a week per team. Some have mentioned here that a few 1A games had less then 100 fans and since the State had to pay for travel they had to loose money. So if you double the amount of teams in the playoffs by splitting them and the gate can't cover the expenses it's a losing proposition.

 

[BK13T-$]

Other states handle the advantaged different. Look it up.

 

[Coony Cat]

Two of the biggest jokes in NC athletics besides the NCHSAA...

1. Charters in 1a

2. Seedings being made by a committee based on conference finish and other stupid rules.

Take a stand Que...do what's right by our kids. Save some money...ditch the committee and use some unbiased sources like Maxpreps and NC Preps to seed the East and west.

It's not rocket science

 

[btango]

Everything new_dawg wrote is correct. He is from a county with three 1A schools. One of those schools lost deep in the playoffs to WS Prep several seasons with teams that would have been hard for any other team in the 1A field to beat.

David Gentry has been pushing the envelope on this much more than any previous board member.

Charters are an issue although I think an open enrollment urban county with 1A schools is a much bigger issue, i.e. Forsyth County. Mountain Island Charter is also a school that appears to be a great case that a transfer policy needs to be mandatory.

 

[btango]

A couple of years ago in conjunction with planning for realignment schools voted on additional classes for non football sports. Overwhelming vote against it. Coaches felt that "small" and "big" schools in a classification were competitive.

 

[Mont1963]

http://abc11.com/education/state-board-close-durhams-kestrel-heights-high-school/1697145/

And this team is still playing basketball in the NCHSAA playoffs. In fact they are the #1 seed in the EAST!! Where is the NCHSAA when you need them??

Come on man!!!!!

 

[Wildcat10fan]

The NCHSAA will not split any other sports due to the cost. Football is the only profitable sport due to the attendance and less travel due to one game a week per team. Some have mentioned here that a few 1A games had less then 100 fans and since the State had to pay for travel they had to loose money. So if you double the amount of teams in the playoffs by splitting them and the gate can't cover the expenses it's a losing proposition.

Have you ever researched how much money the NCHSAA has on hand. I read a interesting story a year or so ago about their financial status

 

[ocdavis31]

They are under the the State Board of Education, however, they are clearly a different animal than regular schools.

Copied the info. below from DPI website:

OFFICE OF CHARTER SCHOOLS

DIRECTOR :: Dave Machado, Director

WHAT IS A CHARTER SCHOOL?

Charter schools are public schools of choice that are authorized by the State Board of Education and operated by independent non-profit boards of directors. State and local tax dollars are the primary funding sources for charter schools, which have open enrollment and cannot discriminate in admissions, associate with any religion or religious group, or charge-tuition. Charter schools operate with freedom from many of the regulations that govern district schools, but charter schools are held accountable through the State assessment and accountability system.

"Charter schools operate with freedom from many of the regulations that govern district schools....."
I recognize that the athletic question is important. But far more important is academics. Charter schools were originally allowed to function and receive tax dollars because they were to be incubators of academic thought and technique. The plan was to then have traditional public schools use those same out of the box methods to improve education for all students. Yet, charters are freed from not only the requirement for transportation and meals, but also from many of the administrative requirements that traditional teachers face every day.
If we truly want to compare charters and district schools, level the academic playing field. The "no ride/ no lunch" difference already gives charters a huge advantage. The state and federal governments need to remove the restrictions on everything else. If a charter school uses a method and it works, let local districts do all of the same things.
Isn't that the point?

 

[FridayNiteLights1217]

Have you ever researched how much money the NCHSAA has on hand. I read a interesting story a year or so ago about their financial status

Too much for the lack of real work they put in making this a fair playoff every year.

 

[FridayNiteLights1217]

They are under the the State Board of Education, however, they are clearly a different animal than regular schools.

Copied the info. below from DPI website:

OFFICE OF CHARTER SCHOOLS

DIRECTOR :: Dave Machado, Director

WHAT IS A CHARTER SCHOOL?

Charter schools are public schools of choice that are authorized by the State Board of Education and operated by independent non-profit boards of directors. State and local tax dollars are the primary funding sources for charter schools, which have open enrollment and cannot discriminate in admissions, associate with any religion or religious group, or charge-tuition. Charter schools operate with freedom from many of the regulations that govern district schools, but charter schools are held accountable through the State assessment and accountability system.

WHAT IS A CHARTER SCHOOL?
A school with special advantages ! !

 

[Big43]

"Charter schools operate with freedom from many of the regulations that govern district schools....."
I recognize that the athletic question is important. But far more important is academics. Charter schools were originally allowed to function and receive tax dollars because they were to be incubators of academic thought and technique. The plan was to then have traditional public schools use those same out of the box methods to improve education for all students. Yet, charters are freed from not only the requirement for transportation and meals, but also from many of the administrative requirements that traditional teachers face every day.
If we truly want to compare charters and district schools, level the academic playing field. The "no ride/ no lunch" difference already gives charters a huge advantage. The state and federal governments need to remove the restrictions on everything else. If a charter school uses a method and it works, let local districts do all of the same things.
Isn't that the point?

With Betsy DeVos the U.S. education secretary she has been a vocal supporter of school choice. DeVos, who heads up the pro-charter and pro-school-voucher nonprofit American Federation for Children, has said parents should have the ability to choose the best schools for their children, whether they are traditional public schools, charters, or private schools. Trump has proposed creating a $20 billion federal voucher program for families to use to send their kids to the school of their choice. The NC state legislator already removed the cap for charters and if this trend continues more schools systems going to use open enrollment which will eventually be the majority over "traditional schools" so it will be a moot point unless the smaller schools want to form their own association.

 

[FridayNiteLights1217]

With Betsy DeVos the U.S. education secretary she has been a vocal supporter of school choice. DeVos, who heads up the pro-charter and pro-school-voucher nonprofit American Federation for Children, has said parents should have the ability to choose the best schools for their children, whether they are traditional public schools, charters, or private schools. Trump has proposed creating a $20 billion federal voucher program for families to use to send their kids to the school of their choice. The NC state legislator already removed the cap for charters and if this trend continues more schools systems going to use open enrollment which will eventually be the majority over "traditional schools" so it will be a moot point unless the smaller schools want to form their own association.

The more charter schools the better for traditional schools. Then they will have no reason not to put them in their own playoff and public schools can play public and private , charter & prep can play in their own playoff. That is the only way I see out of this mess that has been forced on public traditional schools.

 

[VIKING COUNTRY]

http://abc11.com/education/state-board-close-durhams-kestrel-heights-high-school/1697145/

And this team is still playing basketball in the NCHSAA playoffs. In fact they are the #1 seed in the EAST!! Where is the NCHSAA when you need them??

Come on man!!!!!

Mount 1963, the reason that they are still aloud to play is because the NCHSAA doesn't care about right or wrong as long as they get the green. It is no secret what some of the charters want, they may tell you there all about academics and don't care about athletics. We all know of one particular that calls themselves a college preparatory school yet they have the lowest test scores in the state the last 4 years, they have also made 5 straight championship appearances in basketball. We know where their priorities are. In their "open enrollment" they look for kids who can dribble the ball, shoot the ball, and they don't care if these kids can even spell the word ball. It is sad that the NCHSAA doesn't step in and even the playing field at the 1A level.

 

[FridayNiteLights1217]

Mount 1963, the reason that they are still aloud to play is because the NCHSAA doesn't care about right or wrong as long as they get the green. It is no secret what some of the charters want, they may tell you there all about academics and don't care about athletics. We all know of one particular that calls themselves a college preparatory school yet they have the lowest test scores in the state the last 4 years, they have also made 5 straight championship appearances in basketball. We know where their priorities are. In their "open enrollment" they look for kids who can dribble the ball, shoot the ball, and they don't care if these kids can even spell the word ball. It is sad that the NCHSAA doesn't step in and even the playing field at the 1A level.

If it is who I am thinging of they just hired a new football coach that coached at 2 local high schools in same town hoping he can draw more football players and make a run in football.

 

[Big43]

Mount 1963, the reason that they are still aloud to play is because the NCHSAA doesn't care about right or wrong as long as they get the green. It is no secret what some of the charters want, they may tell you there all about academics and don't care about athletics. We all know of one particular that calls themselves a college preparatory school yet they have the lowest test scores in the state the last 4 years, they have also made 5 straight championship appearances in basketball. We know where their priorities are. In their "open enrollment" they look for kids who can dribble the ball, shoot the ball, and they don't care if these kids can even spell the word ball. It is sad that the NCHSAA doesn't step in and even the playing field at the 1A level.

LOL Forsyth country does not have any charter schools competing in the NCHSAA , so even if they put the charters in their own playoffs WS Prep along with the other Forsyth County open enrollment schools will still be around. If you want change stop open enrollment but I think it's only going to get worse with the national and state legislatures pushing for school choice.

 

[FridayNiteLights1217]

LOL Forsyth country does not have any charter schools competing in the NCHSAA , so even if they put the charters in their own playoffs WS Prep along with the other Forsyth County open enrollment schools will still be around. If you want change stop open enrollment but I think it's only going to get worse with the national and state legislatures pushing for school choice.

WSPrep is blowing everyone out 38 to 50 points. Beat Mitchell 88-37
Rosman 95-55 & Community School of Davidson 88-50

 

[ObserveAndReport]

The rationale I've always heard for the school choice movement is that introducing market factors into public education will cause schools to either produce at a higher level (and in doing so attract enough students to stay open) or lose students if they don't produce until they shut down and make rooms for the schools that work. So how does Forsyth County justify a magnet school with 200 students and terrible test scores/school report cards? I'm not trying to stir the pot here, it just seems odd and I was hoping somebody could fill me in on something I am missing...

 

[bareman]

You will get no response on that; no one will to address that