How is this right?

Coony Cat

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Aug 29, 2011
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I know Que and the rest at NCHSAA care less about 1A schools...but this was interesting to me. Maybe it will be interesting to other 1A schools/parents/admins...

Who is eligible to attend Graystone Academy...

Who can attend Gray Stone Day School?Any student who is qualified under the laws of North Carolina for admission to a public school is qualified for admission to a charter school. Gray Stone Day School is a college-preparatory school for highly motivated students choosing to participate in an advanced curriculum. The school now serves students from Cabarrus, Rowan, Stanly, Davidson, Randolph, Mecklenburg and Montgomery counties.

7 counties...hmmm and they should be able to attend our smallest schools?

 

wncbowhunter

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Dec 21, 2002
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Now, Now.
It is only a matter of time till someone jumps on here and tries to convince us that these charters don't have any advantages over the rest of 1a. They will then try to tell us that they, the charters...ect, are the ones with the disadvantage because they can't develop their teams from grade school up and have to figure out a way to make them play together once they reach high school. Then they will argue they don't "recruit" and all athletes have to apply and are selected the same as all other students. So as you can see they have no advantage over the rest of the 1a field.

Ok, now that that is over It Is Total Hogwash they get to compete in 1A playoffs. Whether it is a 7 county area or a 25 mile radius that the charters can pull from it is definitely not a level playing field.

Now do I have a problem with charters in general, NO, they have a purpose. The smaller class sizes and potentially better learning environment is a wonderful thing but it does not translate to athletics.

As mentioned above, thanks to all coaches at the 1A level who give of their time to coach the student athletes. Not only at traditional schools but at not traditional schools as well.
 

new_dawg

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Dec 20, 2003
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Why even have w/mw seeds when all that matters is region seed??? NCHSSA is a joke! 8 seed going to 9 seed is laughable and Tucker and crew should do some serious soul searching!
This comes up every year. QUE TUCKER AND COMPANY DO NOT MAKE THE RULES...THE SUPERINTENDENTS AND PRINCIPALS ON THE BOARD OF DIRECTORS MAKE THEM!! ---then it's up to the staff at NCHSAA to enforce them, since they work for the Board.

Who elects the board? The county administrators from the various regions of the state who nominate members to the BOD. That's who needs to be raising cain about the charter school situation.

I don't have a dog in this fight, but I get tired of hearing the NCHSAA staff blamed for the inequities in the rules, when they have no control over what the Board of Directors passes as policy.
 

Coony Cat

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Aug 29, 2011
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This comes up every year. QUE TUCKER AND COMPANY DO NOT MAKE THE RULES...THE SUPERINTENDENTS AND PRINCIPALS ON THE BOARD OF DIRECTORS MAKE THEM!! ---then it's up to the staff at NCHSAA to enforce them, since they work for the Board.

Who elects the board? The county administrators from the various regions of the state who nominate members to the BOD. That's who needs to be raising cain about the charter school situation.

I don't have a dog in this fight, but I get tired of hearing the NCHSAA staff blamed for the inequities in the rules, when they have no control over what the Board of Directors passes as policy.
This is bull!
 

Coony Cat

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Aug 29, 2011
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Maybe someone can enlighten me on the makeup of the board? But my hunch is...not many board members come from 1a schools or have an interest in 1a schools. So, they have no interest in doing right by the smaller schools. Its about the money...they are more interested in larger schools and the revenues they produce. Its ridiculous...
 

new_dawg

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Dec 20, 2003
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This is bull!
Coony--I've been directly involved in NC high school sports in various capacities for nearly 40 years. I didn't just fall off the turnip truck. I've actually attended a couple of NCHSAA Board of Directors meetings in my time (they are open to the public, by the way), so I know the process and have seen first hand how it goes and how proposals become rules.

So, please enlighten me as to how what I am saying is, as you so eloquently put it, "bull"?
 

Deana_King

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May 31, 2001
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I don't agree with everything, but everything starts with your local school admin to get change. The NCHSAA is made up of all the public school systems.
 

Coony Cat

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Aug 29, 2011
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Change has been brought up in relation to charters...nothing happens...Que doesnt want to take it on.

Get back on your turnip truck...just curious...did you or one of your grandkids go to a 1a school? Doubt it.
 

Deana_King

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May 31, 2001
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Change has been brought up in relation to charters...nothing happens...Que doesnt want to take it on.

Get back on your turnip truck...just curious...did you or one of your grandkids go to a 1a school? Doubt it.

Who are you talking to? If it's me, I don't have any kids or grandkids and I'm from a 1A school in an area that has been effected by a lot of this stuff.
 

Coony Cat

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Aug 29, 2011
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Coony--I've been directly involved in NC high school sports in various capacities for nearly 40 years. I didn't just fall off the turnip truck. I've actually attended a couple of NCHSAA Board of Directors meetings in my time (they are open to the public, by the way), so I know the process and have seen first hand how it goes and how proposals become rules.

So, please enlighten me as to how what I am saying is, as you so eloquently put it, "bull"?
Spoke to my local representative board member...asked their stance...was told they were against charters competing in 1A...when it was brought up at meeting...most members dont want to discuss...Que not interested in pursuing change...so your comment is false.
 

Coony Cat

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Aug 29, 2011
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1A doesnt have the clout to affect change...until charters win a state championship in football...it likely won't be addressed.
 

mbdfan

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Mar 17, 2007
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1A doesn't have the clout to affect change...until charters win a state championship in football...it likely won't be addressed.
You're right, until a charter wins a title in football nothing will change. MIC came extremely close this season, eventually a charter will break through in football, it gets closer to reality each year.
 
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FridayNiteLights1217

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Oct 2, 2007
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If so then the local school admin in the larger counties/cities or 3-A & 4-A areas are all going to be for charter , magnet & Prep schools in their area and vote their way because that is bringing money to the larger areas from the smaller areas and schools like Atkins & WSPrep bring very little gate to their away games. All the large cities/counties out # the small 1-A communities and nothing will change and only get worse with more charter , magnet & Prep schools popping up each year. Maybe after we get a few more the NCHSAA will wake up and put the advantaged charter , magnet & Prep schools in a group to their selves.....
 
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Mont1963

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Dec 10, 2013
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I can state for a FACT that this issue has been brought to the NCHSAA's attention MORE THAN ONCE! Everyone is afraid to deal with it! One answer is for the 1A's to pull out of the Association and form their own. Period!!

There is one more answer: There is no refuting that the Charters now have enough schools to have their own playoffs. Why can that change not be made. Let them play in our regular season games with everyone and at playoff time, they go their own route. i.e. just like the football playoffs. Everyone plays in the regular conferences during the season and then are divided into little 1A and big 1A for playoffs!!

Someone please tell me why this would not work?????
 

BD Warrior

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Sep 20, 2006
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Here are four 1A scores from WNC last night. This a joke and the NCHSAA needs to be held accountable for it!

Hiwassee Dam - 55
Bishop McGuiness - 81

Winston Salem Prep - 88
Mitchell - 37

Community School of Davidson - 96
Murphy - 63

Mtn Island Charter - 83
Robbinsville - 46

What do all these teams opponents have in common. It a complete hack job!
 

Mont1963

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Dec 10, 2013
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Here are four 1A scores from WNC last night. This a joke and the NCHSAA needs to be held accountable for it!

Hiwassee Dam - 55
Bishop McGuiness - 81

Winston Salem Prep - 88
Mitchell - 37

Community School of Davidson - 96
Murphy - 63

Mtn Island Charter - 83
Robbinsville - 46

What do all these teams opponents have in common. It a complete hack job!

Agree!!!!
Robbinsville is not a bad team this year. They beat Cherokee once and beat Swain County (#2 ranked team in the state).
 
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Lovetoplaysports

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Nov 10, 2016
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Here are four 1A scores from WNC last night. This a joke and the NCHSAA needs to be held accountable for it!

Hiwassee Dam - 55
Bishop McGuiness - 81

Winston Salem Prep - 88
Mitchell - 37

Community School of Davidson - 96
Murphy - 63

Mtn Island Charter - 83
Robbinsville - 46

What do all these teams opponents have in common. It a complete hack job!
The common thing they all have is they played teams that aren't that good. None of those teams play anyone outside of their area so they don't get a chance to see what else is out there. Maybe you think these teams are good compared to what you are used to seeing but WSP, CSD, MIC, BM all play a tough nonconference schedule full of athletic type players. And Swain is #2 for playoff seeding. Maxpreps has them ranked 14 in 1A and NCPreps has them 8-10...
 
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ObserveAndReport

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Aug 18, 2009
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The common thing they all have is they played teams that aren't that good. None of those teams play anyone outside of their area so they don't get a chance to see what else is out there. Maybe you think these teams are good compared to what you are used to seeing but WSP, CSD, MIC, BM all play a tough nonconference schedule full of athletic type players. And Swain is #2 for playoff seeding. Maxpreps has them ranked 14 in 1A and NCPreps has them 8-10...
Disagree. Look at Mitchell for example...they played in a split conference that is mostly 2A. Out of conference they played McDowell (winner by 15 over Reagan in the 4A playoffs last night), Shelby (one of the best and most athletic 2A teams in the state), and several other private school and larger class out-of-state teams. Still got beat by 50 by WSP. A small school from a rural county can schedule up as much as they want, but it won't overcome the talent deficit that comes from drawing from one small pool of players, usually in a remote area without as easy of access to elite travel ball, that is relied on to play multiple sports and not specialize.
 

Lovetoplaysports

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Nov 10, 2016
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Disagree. Look at Mitchell for example...they played in a split conference that is mostly 2A. Out of conference they played McDowell (winner by 15 over Reagan in the 4A playoffs last night), Shelby (one of the best and most athletic 2A teams in the state), and several other private school and larger class out-of-state teams. Still got beat by 50 by WSP. A small school from a rural county can schedule up as much as they want, but it won't overcome the talent deficit that comes from drawing from one small pool of players, usually in a remote area without as easy of access to elite travel ball, that is relied on to play multiple sports and not specialize.
I see what you are saying but Mitchell was down this year. They lost to those to teams by 35 and 29 and played both of those games at Mitchell which lets you know they are down because Mitchell is a tough place to play usually. Now they go on the road to WSP, in the playoffs, long trip...well, you get that...And you only speak of 1 team as an example...also, Mt. Heritage (neighboring school in Burnsville) has 2 guys playing on an Elite travel team in Charlotte so they opportunity is there.
 
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ObserveAndReport

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Several SMC players have played very high level travel ball the last few years, both girls and boys, but they've had to go to Atlanta/the Triad to do it. So I'm not saying traditional school kids never play high level travel ball, but that it is much more of a sacrifice and much more rare for kids and parents to be willing to make that sacrifice, and as a result it is hard for a program to keep up with schools with kids who have those opportunities in their back yard and take advantage in higher numbers.

But that argument is just the tip of the iceberg when talking about advantages that charter schools have at the 1A level. Even assuming, for the sake of argument, the validity of the your scheduling theory, I would argue that it supports the complaints against magnets/charters, because it is not feasible for Robbinsville or Andrews to schedule the same type of non-conference competition without their kids living on a bus.
 
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Mont1963

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The common thing they all have is they played teams that aren't that good. None of those teams play anyone outside of their area so they don't get a chance to see what else is out there. Maybe you think these teams are good compared to what you are used to seeing but WSP, CSD, MIC, BM all play a tough nonconference schedule full of athletic type players. And Swain is #2 for playoff seeding. Maxpreps has them ranked 14 in 1A and NCPreps has them 8-10...
The common thing here is that one group of these teams draw from thousands of students. The other group draws from 200-500 students max!!! I rest my case!!
 

wolfpack19

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Oct 24, 2007
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Que and company know for a fact that Lincoln Charter has 2 count'em 2 high school campuses. Linconton and Denver that they use to draw from in a 25 mile radius but ALL sports are played in Denver but use both addresses to draw from. You are talking bout 8-9 counties as the crow flies. But NCHSAA nothing about it, refuses to make them use 1 address.
 
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Lovetoplaysports

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Nov 10, 2016
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The common thing here is that one group of these teams draw from thousands of students. The other group draws from 200-500 students max!!! I rest my case!!
Where do you get the "thousands of students" from? Just because the opportunity to pull form surrounding areas (25 miles) doesn't mean they "draw" them. Charters are choice schools and 99% of all kids at Charter School CHOOSE to go there for academic purposes. Plus, the lottery doesn't guarantee ANYBODY a spot at the school. Both of my children attend a charter and we were on a waiting list for 3 years before we got into the charter. We applied for the lottery but never got a call. Don't let a school that lives in an open school district damper all charters. Not trying to argue as I see your points as well but as a parent of charters schools I see both sides.
 

Lovetoplaysports

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Que and company know for a fact that Lincoln Charter has 2 count'em 2 high school campuses. Linconton and Denver that they use to draw from in a 25 mile radius but ALL sports are played in Denver but use both addresses to draw from. You are talking bout 8-9 counties as the crow flies. But NCHSAA nothing about it, refuses to make them use 1 address.
I don't know where you get your facts from but LCS only uses Denver as the 25 mile radius. And there may be 100 students at the Lincolnton campus.
 

Mont1963

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I don't know where you get your facts from but LCS only uses Denver as the 25 mile radius. And there may be 100 students at the Lincolnton campus.
Took this right from the Lincoln Charter front page web site:

"Tuition-free public school serving Lincoln, Catawba, Gaston, Iredell, Mecklenburg and surrounding counties".

Now, you want to argue about numbers. Forget # of students. Let's look at the real situation here. Cherokee has a population of 10,000 residents. They get their students from this population. Lincoln draws from the above 5+ counties. Mecklenburg alone has over ONE MILLION residents. All of which are eligible to attend Lincoln Charter.

I rest my case!!!!!!
 

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