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Will Grier- Florida Gators

Gators are saying it wasn't ligandrol, which is pretty much a steroid anyway they just say it's not, when you buy it you are buying a steroid alternative.

And it was a 43 lb gain not 32. That is a lot more than the freshmen 15, that's the juice.
 
WARNING: Any Person who participates in sports and/or any other competitor in sports who is subject to the WADA – Anti Doping Code, or is subject to similar codes or other rules regarding the use of supplements in sports, should not use this product. Users are responsible for consulting with a medical provider and reviewing all ingredients prior to use. Users are responsible for complying with all laws and codes regarding participation in sports.

https://www.completenutrition.com/mobile/products/sports-nutrition/l3-series-stack/
 
Gators are saying it wasn't ligandrol, which is pretty much a steroid anyway they just say it's not, when you buy it you are buying a steroid alternative.

And it was a 43 lb gain not 32. That is a lot more than the freshmen 15, that's the juice.

Conflicting reports out of Gainesville. That needs to be cleared up.

You wrote 32 pounds in your post at 5:38 pm. He weighed 172 or so pounds at a combine in May 2013 during his junior year of high school. That is 7 or 8 months before he enrolled at Florida. Expect he weighed more by then.

At a bit older than him I gained in the high twenties going from skinny to lean and muscular in less than two years. I was not on the juice nor a product of an A5 football program and there was not the supplements thirty years ago that we have today.
 
32 pounds is not that much in almost two years. When I was playing I went from 215 - 245 in about 15 months and that is without taking anything other than eating and making sure the protein was there. I also spent a lot of time in the gym. So it is possible and with hard work and a good diet, it's not super hard.
 
Is there a link to the rules or list of PED's. There's a strong microscope on athletes about this issue. I'd be scared to take regular vitamins as a student or profession athlete.
 
Is there a link to the rules or list of PED's. There's a strong microscope on athletes about this issue. I'd be scared to take regular vitamins as a student or profession athlete.
A lot of Olympic athletes are afraid to even take vitamins due to the fear of a contaminated product. This happened several years ago to an Olympic athlete and the FDA was able to trace the product and get samples which proved to be contanimated.
 
He took peds. Period. End of discussion. What he 'says' he took is a banned substance and even says it is a banned substance. He added 25% of muscle mass in less than one years time. And he did it taking banned peds that are clearly labeled. Let's just forget that Florida is saying what he said is a lie.
 
Heel yes no one is arguing he took a band substance. I have no idea exactly what he took, only what he says he took. Hopefully more information will come out.

You're writing that he gained 25% of lean muscle mass in a year cannot be correct. You can look at the Florida rosters and the Nike combine listed weights and see a progression from the 172/173 from may 2013 (his junior year of high school) and up. Your numbers in this thread have went from 32 to 43 pounds in one year and 25% increase in muscle mass which is basically 50 pounds in this case and you write that happened in one year.
 
U can't just add on that much lean muscle mass 25% of your Body weight without assistance. As proven by the fact that he needed drugs , roids, to do it. Do the math and count what his calorie intake would have had to been to add that type of weight. And he was adding just weight he was adding muscle. You can see he is jacked and you can tell when someone is on the juice. He cheated to beat out the guy from Miami and got busted. He lied about what he took and Florida called him on that. Now he will be on everyone's ped list for frequent testing and you will see him struggle to keep on weight and he will have a lot of injuries.

He wouldn't have been under that kind of pressure at duke.
 
Florida will now be in danger of being investigated to find out where a 18 year old got his hands on the good stuff.
 
These big time schools have very good strength coaches and I bet you those guys can pick the ones out on the stuff a mile away. They needed that skinny kid to be ready yesterday and at the very least turned a blind eye.

Might not ever see Florida again when they cut him loose in full CYA SEC mode.
 
Heel yes, you are in top form.

Do not think Grier stated what substance only that it was an over the counter product that had a banned substance. Florida has not said anything different on that although there has been a report that they could not confirm it was Ligandrol which is what some in the press reported.
 
you act like it is better if it was a store bought steroid instead of a back alley steroid.

why is that?

you know what he said is what every person that has ever got busted for roids ever has said?
 
you act like it is better if it was a store bought steroid instead of a back alley steroid.

why is that?

you know what he said is what every person that has ever got busted for roids ever has said?

I think if you and I can walk in GNC or go on line to Amazon and order something that is different. A true steroid would do much more for you than probably anything GNC is selling.

My main reason for being involved with you on this is because some of the info you put out is way far fetched.
 
You have been defending him the entire time. Got a dog in the fight?

He is either a cheater on roids or a moron for not listening to uf when they told him not to take anything without their permission or not being able to read the label that told him it was a roid and he would fail a ped test. Which one are you going with?

You keep saying what he did could be legit even though he said it wasn't. Why?
 
What are you talking about?

Our difference is you think the only way to gain the weight he did was to take anabolic steroids. You have several times made false claims on his weight. I think a teenager can gain large amounts of weight in this situation without steroids.

I wrote that he should have cleared the supplement with the training/medical staff and that communication is key.

I have no dog in the fight but I do not think it is fair that you continually put out false or unsubstantiated information?
 
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Show me your link where you stated he was in the 190s when he showed up at Florida.

Show me a post where I wrote that. I do not think he was in the 190's when he arrived at Florida. I thought he was right at 185 when he got on campus January 2014.
 
You just read that on scout. Those things are inflated for everyone by their coaches. The one one rivals said 177. Not to mention that when Florida weighed him he was closer to 160. Which gives with what people that saw wim personally was seeing.

If you don't want to believe a 25% body mass increase of pure muscle is un realistic and can be done with chicken breast and hard work go for it. But anyone who buys what you or his family is selling belongs in one of the aforementioned categories that Will himself falls into.

And you also believe recruiting websites. Lol lol lol
 
His father was not weighing the players in at the combine. They weigh them in shorts, tshirt, and socks. I guess he could have had couple of five pounds plates strapped on. When a person is 6'2" 170 pounds would be very slim / skinny. I have not seen where he was weighed in at 160.

I went from 154 to 182 in just under 24 months at about the same age. I have no idea what he actually took. My argument with you is adding thirty pounds without anabolics is not out of the question at that age and a taller person could probably add more than this scrawny 5'10" and change frame.
 
Btango your right on that.Emmanuel Moseley weighed 145 when he got to Tennessee in January as a early enrollee.By August he was up to 178. That's 33lbs in 7 months.
 
Jalen Dalton 6-5 220 lbs at West Forsyth last year and now stands 6-6 280 lbs at UNC. That's 60lbs for a DE.
 
Quick google search


Steroids and performance-enhancing drugs have been reportedly used by many college football players in the NCAA. According to a recent drug test and survey, about one percent of all NCAA football players have tested positive for a performance-enhancing drug or steroid, and about three percent have admitted to using one sometime during their college football career.[5] Controversy arose in 2005, when former Brigham Young University player Jason Scukanec, although never admitting to using steroids himself, stated that steroids were used in many notable Division I programs.[5]

Scukanec, who is the co-host of a sports talk radio show "Primetime With Isaac and Big Suke" on KFXX-AM (AM 1080 "The Fan") in Portland, Oregon, made these statements:

“ Over the course of my five years at BYU, I have concrete proof of 13 to 15 guys (using steroids), and I would suspect five others...And BYU is more temperate than most programs. Being around NFL and NFL Europe players, they would tell me stuff that blew my mind. I know other schools are worse. I would bet my house you could find at least five guys on every Division I team in the country (using steroids).[5]
“ My best friend was a steroid monster. I shot him up probably four times in the butt. He couldn’t do it himself. He was afraid of needles. He was naturally 245 or 250 pounds, but he got up to 312 with a 36-inch waist. He had stretch marks on his chest and shoulder and eventually blew out both of his knees. When I was with the Broncos, they brought him in for a workout. The offensive line coach came to me and said, ‘What’s your friend on?’ Another guy we played with, who is still in the NFL, would come back at the end of a season weighing 270. Three weeks into the offseason, he was 295 and buffed. It wasn’t a big mystery what he was doing. Three guys I played with in the NFL, I saw them use (steroids). The coaches knew the guys on the juice. To pretend it doesn’t go on would be a farce. It’s the big no-no nobody wants to talk about. And you don’t want to know what’s going on at the junior college level, where no testing is being done.[5]
Portland State University coach Tim Walsh commented on the situation, declining the remarks:

“ That’s a bold statement. It’s a tough accusation, to come up with a number like that. Is it true? Maybe, maybe not. I wish I could say I knew for sure. I’m not naive enough to think it’s not going on out there, but I feel pretty strongly it’s not been a problem with our players over the years.[5]
The number of players who have admitted using steroids in a confidential survey conducted by the NCAA since the 1980s has dropped from 9.7 percent in 1989 to 3.0 percent in 2003.[5] During the 2003 season, there were over 7,000 drug tests, with just 77 turning up as positive test results.[5] Scukanec claims that methods were used to get around the drug testing, whether it be avoiding the tests by using the drugs during the off-season, or flushing the drugs out of your system. This was used with a liquid he referred to as the "pink."[5] He stated:
 
http://espn.go.com/college-football...roids-loom-major-college-football-report-says

WASHINGTON -- With steroids easy to buy, testing weak and punishments inconsistent, college football players are packing on significant weight -- 30 pounds or more in a single year, sometimes -- without drawing much attention from their schools or the NCAA in a sport that earns tens of billions of dollars for teams.

Rules vary so widely that, on any given game day, a team with a strict no-steroid policy can face a team whose players have repeatedly tested positive.

An investigation by The Associated Press -- based on dozens of interviews with players, testers, dealers and experts and an analysis of weight records for more than 61,000 players -- revealed that while those running the multibillion-dollar sport believe the problem is under control, that is hardly the case.


The sport's near-zero rate of positive steroids tests isn't an accurate gauge among college athletes. Random tests provide weak deterrence and, by design, fail to catch every player using steroids. Colleges also are reluctant to spend money on expensive steroid testing when cheaper ones for drugs like marijuana allow them to say they're doing everything they can to keep drugs out of football.

"It's nothing like what's going on in reality," said Don Catlin, an anti-doping pioneer who spent years conducting the NCAA's laboratory tests at UCLA. He became so frustrated with the college system that it drove him in part to leave the testing industry to focus on anti-doping research.

Catlin said the collegiate system, in which players often are notified days before a test and many schools don't even test for steroids, is designed to not catch dopers. That artificially reduces the numbers of positive tests and keeps schools safe from embarrassing drug scandals.

While other major sports have been beset by revelations of steroid use, college football has operated with barely a whiff of scandal. Between 1996 and 2010 -- the era of Barry Bonds, Mark McGwire, Marion Jones and Lance Armstrong -- the failure rate for NCAA steroid tests fell even closer to zero from an already low rate of less than 1 percent.

The AP's investigation, drawing upon more than a decade of official rosters from all 120 Football Bowl Subdivision teams, found thousands of players quickly putting on significant weight, even more than their fellow players. The information compiled by the AP included players who appeared for multiple years on the same teams, making it the most comprehensive data available.


For decades, scientific studies have shown that anabolic steroid use leads to an increase in body weight. Weight gain alone doesn't prove steroid use, but very rapid weight gain is one factor that would be deemed suspicious, said Kathy Turpin, senior director of sport drug testing for the National Center for Drug Free Sport, which conducts tests for the NCAA and more than 300 schools.

Yet the NCAA has never studied weight gain or considered it in regard to its steroid testing policies, said Mary Wilfert, the NCAA's associate director of health and safety. She would not speculate on the cause of such rapid weight gain.

The NCAA attributes the decline in positive tests to its year-round drug testing program, combined with anti-drug education and testing conducted by schools.

"The effort has been increasing, and we believe it has driven down use," Wilfert said.

Big gains, data show
The AP's analysis found that, regardless of school, conference and won-loss record, many players gained weight at exceptional rates compared with their fellow athletes and while accounting for their heights. The documented weight gains could not be explained by the amount of money schools spent on weight rooms, trainers and other football expenses.

Adding more than 20 or 25 pounds of lean muscle in a year is nearly impossible through diet and exercise alone, said Dan Benardot, director of the Laboratory for Elite Athlete Performance at Georgia State University.

The AP's analysis corrected for the fact that players in different positions have different body types, so speedy wide receivers weren't compared to bulkier offensive tackles. It could not assess each player's physical makeup, such as how much weight gain was muscle versus fat, one indicator of steroid use. In the most extreme case in the AP analysis, the probability that a player put on so much weight compared with other players was so rare that the odds statistically were roughly the same as an NFL quarterback throwing 12 passing touchdowns or an NFL running back rushing for 600 yards in one game.
 
For added emphasis

Adding more than 20 or 25 pounds of lean muscle in a year is nearly impossible through diet and exercise alone, said Dan Benardot, director of the Laboratory for Elite Athlete Performance at Georgia State University.
 
If you care you can do the math to determine what he would have had to eat to make those gains in that time period. When you start looking into it you can see the near impossibility that these guys are accomplishing on a daily basis.

And some of you guys need to learn the difference between anecdote and data.
 
June 154 pounds. March 22 months later 182 pounds. 28 pounds in 22 months. I did not take steroids, did not have a trainer, had very little money, no special foods, some basic protein powders, and the most basic workout equipment.

He may have been juicing I do not know everything about his situation but that is not my argument with you. He is about four inches taller than me and has a lot more advantages than I had. That is why I believe it is possible to gain the weight he did in the time he did it in.
 
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Batango, u do realize what you are saying is you gained about 11 lbs a year? You realize that is normal and not what we are talking about?

Disagree with doctors and in depth studies in the situation. You have went beyond the point of willful ignorance now.

When the studies and information are there for you to consume and you choose not to you now become categorized into a different group yourself.
 
28 pounds in 22 months would be over 15 pounds per year. Two more months would it have been 30 pounds gained. If I were four inches taller could I have put on another four or five pounds in that time. If so, would I have gained 35 pounds in two years.
 
Big Jon I am surprised with you. You are being plain nasty toward me.

Once again, my argument with you is not if he took something that is criminally illegal or something that is only banned by the NCAA. I do not know the answer to that. My stance is that he could have added the weight without criminally illegal anabolic steriods and your own posts substaniate this. You reposted Wednesday (10:32 pm) one section "for emphasis" in bold type, Adding more than 20 or 25 pounds of lean muscle in a year is nearly impossible through diet and exercise alone, said Dan Benardot, director of the Laboratory for Elite Athlete Performance at Georgia State University.

In your Monday post (5:38 pm) you wrote, "He has put on 32 lbs of muscle since enrolling in jan of 2014. Even for an athlete that is very hard to do." I agree and the expert you quoted stated it is "nearly impossible." That number seems about right and would have made him 183 when he arrived on campus and seems to align with the 172 or 173 from May 2013. 32 lbs in 20 months equates to just over 19 lbs per year. That is a lot and an expert said "nearly impossible". I only gained 15 lbs a year naturally with much less available to me.

Dim? Depends on who you are comparing me to.
 
You know better than the scientist that study these things for a living.

Did you ever find you some roids that you were asking for on the other board?
 
You know better than the scientist that study these things for a living.

Did you ever find you some roids that you were asking for on the other board?

On the other board I jokingly replied to a friend regarding the negative side effects that I had (such as hair loss) without taking them so I might as well give it a try.
 
among other comments about wanting to try them.

I made one post and one comment about the supplement and it was a joke about the side effects.

You do understand that we were talking about an item that is available over the counter and on line.

At my age I should go to a doctor and get the anti aging youth drugs but that is probably unaffordable for an old farmer. I could probably benefit from fat loss and joint healing more than anything else on the list.

Just for the record though, here is the only post that in any way had any reference about me using the supplement.
Creekprogram, on 12 Oct 2015 - 4:50 PM, said:

Here are the benefits and possible side effects of the supplement taken (Ligandrol)


Benefits
– Strength
– Lean mass
– Fat loss
– Endurance
– Body recomposition
– Joint healing

Potential side effects
• Male pattern baldness
• Body hair growth

btango Posted Reply 12 October 2015 - 07:25 PM

Since I have the latter two already I am ready to try it out for those benfits. LOL.
 
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