Shelby continues to stand while Rich Co, Independence continue to slide.
- Thread starter '98 State Champion
- Start date
AREGOOD- Mark Barnes is at Crest High School in Shelby. Yes, same coach. Highly successful at Crest. He has been to numerous title games but yet to win one. This may be his year.
I thought Barnes won it last year, also in 97 when Crest played Shelby the 2nd game they did not have all there horses and when Richmond played Crest in 97 Richmond was missing about 5 key starters. On an average year Richmond wins by at least 3 td's, Shelby is good but they do not have enough horses by the 4th quarter
to keep up. I sure a lot of your players go both ways.
Richmond has won just as much as Shelby has since the school opened, unless of course you count WNCHSAA titles and Division II titles.
The modern era of NC high school football is debated as 1972 or 1977.
1972 was the year that 2A and 3A went to a full state championship. 1A had been playing through for about five years and 4A for over a decade. 3A had been the largest class until about 1960 and played a full state title. Teams that won in 2A and 3A previous to 1972 called their titles Eastern or Western Regional Titles. In 1972 the NCHSAA had just short of 100 teams in 2A and 3A playing football.
I personally consider, as do many others, 1977 to be the beginning of the modern era since the 36 or 38 team WNCHSAA ceased operations.
1972 was the year that 2A and 3A went to a full state championship. 1A had been playing through for about five years and 4A for over a decade. 3A had been the largest class until about 1960 and played a full state title. Teams that won in 2A and 3A previous to 1972 called their titles Eastern or Western Regional Titles. In 1972 the NCHSAA had just short of 100 teams in 2A and 3A playing football.
I personally consider, as do many others, 1977 to be the beginning of the modern era since the 36 or 38 team WNCHSAA ceased operations.
You went to every classification board on this site and posted at the beginning of the year that Shelby was the most successful, sustained, winning program in NC.
You came to the 4A board after the second round and started two threads, this one and one other. So you never start "these 'whose #1' threads".
In 1997 Crest lost the first game of the season to Gaffney by four touchdowns. That was the week before Crest played Shelby. Still an impressive win. Any win in a rivalry game is always great.
Shelby was 3A until 1997.
During the years that you list, 1989-1998, Crest was 87-36-1. I listed them in bold within your quoted post above. Three losing seasons and a .500 year. They had two state champions and a couple of strong runs.
This post was edited on 11/27 4:38 PM by btango
Godevilsgo posted on 11/27/2014...
AREGOOD- Mark Barnes is at Crest High School in Shelby. Yes, same coach. Highly successful at Crest. He has been to numerous title games but yet to win one. This may be his year.
I meant to say Shelby Crest just left out the Crest. I keep up with Coach Barns a lot as I think a lot of him. Always liked to talk to him and his brother when they were at Richmond. During that time my Uncle was the AD at Richmond and I spent a lot of time doing things for him around the school and Gym.I was in my uncle's office a lot and often would get to talk with them.
AREGOOD- Mark Barnes is at Crest High School in Shelby. Yes, same coach. Highly successful at Crest. He has been to numerous title games but yet to win one. This may be his year.
I meant to say Shelby Crest just left out the Crest. I keep up with Coach Barns a lot as I think a lot of him. Always liked to talk to him and his brother when they were at Richmond. During that time my Uncle was the AD at Richmond and I spent a lot of time doing things for him around the school and Gym.I was in my uncle's office a lot and often would get to talk with them.
@aregood I think I know who you are now! I promise you this J.G. wouldn't put up with 4 losses to the Scots
.
Reidsville 18
Shelby 12
All the statistics you need to know. '98 hubris cannot erase those numbers.
Shelby 12
All the statistics you need to know. '98 hubris cannot erase those numbers.
..lol...Coach Hoggard ain't going nowhere unless he decides HE wants too....on a side note the late great Ed Emory never lost a game to Scotland,,,,6-0 I do believe.....dude your logic is useless...btw...never heard anybody complain about Brent Flowers his soph year......he got smoked 41-7 by Scotland.....oh...I get it now!.....you must be part of that certain sector of the Raider population!
btango wrote;
I edited out a few words from one sentence. Did not remove a full sentence nor alter a statement.
I never start these threads. I have started very few threads on this site.
I am not a fan of Richmond's stadium. Do not like the layout. My opinion. I am not fan of much signage, I appreciate the Notre Dame style of stadium.
My history is in the WNCHSAA, 3A, and 2A.
I do not think to be the top program you have to be 4AA or 4A, not close. Albemarle should be considered one of the top programs in the state during the 2000's. They would not be a top team although they would compete for a title in 1A every season. I have always thought Shelby's program was top notch but I stand by my statement that when the best teams in NC are brought up Shelby is not in going to get much support. In the last 15 seasons would Shelby have been considered a top 20 team in more than one or two seasons?
Nice that you use the Crest rivalry as an example. The first four seasons you list (1989-1992) Crest did not average five wins a season and had one winning season, not exactly a powerhouse during that time period. Shelby was 3A during most of the years you listed, not 2A, and Shelby's success in 3A was impressive through the late 1980's but dropped off. I expect that enrollment was also dropping at that time. Crest has won more than they have lost since your list ended but I am sure it is only by a few games. Crest dropped down to 3A in the early part of the decade.
As for the 1997 season, that would have been Roy Kirby's first year as the HC. Crest was absolutely manhandled by Gaffney by about 30 points this week before they met up with Shelby so believe me they were not nationally ranked when they met the Lions.
'98: I edited to correct the years in the next to last paragraph.
'98 a little trivia for you.
The WNCHSAA ceased operations after the 1976
football season. How many of the 38 schools in the WNCHSAA that last season won and NCHSAA title between 1977 and 2001 (the last year of non
subdivided playoffs for all classes)?
btango, you are starting to sound like the knight in Monty Python's Holy Grail, with your arms and legs cut off, hollering from the ground that you will bite us to death.
We have thoroughly addressed every historical and factual aspect of this discussion on "the most successful, sustained, winning high school football program in the state of North Carolina". And you still don't get it. Claiming Shelby wouldn't get much "support".
Time to kick your teeth in.
You cleverly move between the subject of "team" versus "program". Let there be no question. We are discussing "program". "Team" strength changes every year due to graduation and new arrivals. Which "program" has demonstrated the statistically, factually, proven best record of consistent winning, including playoff performances and State Titles ? You say Shelby would not have to be 4AA to qualify for that spot, well then what would it take? What does Shelby lack in consistent, historical winning that you need to give us that nod?
Your statement on the last 15 years is ludicrous. In 1997, Shelby went undefeated into the Title game and lost a close one to a great Clinton team. 1998, Shelby went back and destroyed Tarboro for the Title. From 2003 to 2012, the Golden Lions played in 7 of the 10 Western Finals (70%), including two of the last three. 4 of the last 9 Title games (44%). Won 2 of the last 8 State Titles (25%). Not make the top 20 but one or two seasons over those 15 years? That's ridiculous. And by the way, please, show us the twenty "programs" that exceed the success above? Does your favorite Richmond County even come close??? Are you starting to get it?
2A Shelby has gone 5-8 versus Crest since 1998. During that period, Crest has competed as one of the largest 3A schools in the state. They have appeared in State Titles games five times; 2001, 2003, 2004, 2010, and 2011, winning it in '03 and '04. That continues to prove Shelby can hang with anyone, anytime. Again, even Crest has been far more consistently dominating then Richmond County. Richmond County's weakness since 1998 is driving their desperate and confusing comments in this thread.
Regarding 1997, good research on the Crest versus Gaffney game opening the season. Gaffney (the most successful, sustained, winning football program in South Carolina with 17 titles consistently won over 90+years) went on to be State Champs again that year, in the largest classification. But I guess your weak attempt was somehow to discredit defending 4AA-A State Champ Crest's strength there and the 2A Shelby's "upset". By the way, the Golden Lions had just concluded a four year series with that same Gaffney program the year before. While losing all four from 1993 to 1996, Shelby played very competitively, losing once by 3 and another by 7. Gaffney was State Champs in 1992, also. The Gaffneys and the Crests of the world are why Shelby's overall winning percentage since 1968 is second, second only to RC. But it is also the reason our playoff performances over the years are astounding. If Shelby had only played at our classification, well, there is little doubt we would own the winning percentage stat also.
Finally, we are going to ignore your WNCHSAA challenge. Many programs from that group have performed very successfully over the years and the fact remains, the two associations were rivals at the outset and the champs never played each other. In 1972, 13-0 Shelby was voted the state's #1 3A team over the NCHSAA winner. Who knows? We recognize all Championships as valid, as does the current NCHSAA, as demonstrated on their archives. A better question would be, if RC is the top "program", why have they only managed one appearance in the "sub divided" playoff era? Thanks for stepping in that one.
We like the Notre Dame style of stadium, also. Here's a trivia question for you. What does the term PT stand for in football statistics? I think we got you there, too.
I edited out a few words from one sentence. Did not remove a full sentence nor alter a statement.
I never start these threads. I have started very few threads on this site.
I am not a fan of Richmond's stadium. Do not like the layout. My opinion. I am not fan of much signage, I appreciate the Notre Dame style of stadium.
My history is in the WNCHSAA, 3A, and 2A.
I do not think to be the top program you have to be 4AA or 4A, not close. Albemarle should be considered one of the top programs in the state during the 2000's. They would not be a top team although they would compete for a title in 1A every season. I have always thought Shelby's program was top notch but I stand by my statement that when the best teams in NC are brought up Shelby is not in going to get much support. In the last 15 seasons would Shelby have been considered a top 20 team in more than one or two seasons?
Nice that you use the Crest rivalry as an example. The first four seasons you list (1989-1992) Crest did not average five wins a season and had one winning season, not exactly a powerhouse during that time period. Shelby was 3A during most of the years you listed, not 2A, and Shelby's success in 3A was impressive through the late 1980's but dropped off. I expect that enrollment was also dropping at that time. Crest has won more than they have lost since your list ended but I am sure it is only by a few games. Crest dropped down to 3A in the early part of the decade.
As for the 1997 season, that would have been Roy Kirby's first year as the HC. Crest was absolutely manhandled by Gaffney by about 30 points this week before they met up with Shelby so believe me they were not nationally ranked when they met the Lions.
'98: I edited to correct the years in the next to last paragraph.
'98 a little trivia for you.
The WNCHSAA ceased operations after the 1976
football season. How many of the 38 schools in the WNCHSAA that last season won and NCHSAA title between 1977 and 2001 (the last year of non
subdivided playoffs for all classes)?
btango, you are starting to sound like the knight in Monty Python's Holy Grail, with your arms and legs cut off, hollering from the ground that you will bite us to death.
We have thoroughly addressed every historical and factual aspect of this discussion on "the most successful, sustained, winning high school football program in the state of North Carolina". And you still don't get it. Claiming Shelby wouldn't get much "support".
Time to kick your teeth in.
You cleverly move between the subject of "team" versus "program". Let there be no question. We are discussing "program". "Team" strength changes every year due to graduation and new arrivals. Which "program" has demonstrated the statistically, factually, proven best record of consistent winning, including playoff performances and State Titles ? You say Shelby would not have to be 4AA to qualify for that spot, well then what would it take? What does Shelby lack in consistent, historical winning that you need to give us that nod?
Your statement on the last 15 years is ludicrous. In 1997, Shelby went undefeated into the Title game and lost a close one to a great Clinton team. 1998, Shelby went back and destroyed Tarboro for the Title. From 2003 to 2012, the Golden Lions played in 7 of the 10 Western Finals (70%), including two of the last three. 4 of the last 9 Title games (44%). Won 2 of the last 8 State Titles (25%). Not make the top 20 but one or two seasons over those 15 years? That's ridiculous. And by the way, please, show us the twenty "programs" that exceed the success above? Does your favorite Richmond County even come close??? Are you starting to get it?
2A Shelby has gone 5-8 versus Crest since 1998. During that period, Crest has competed as one of the largest 3A schools in the state. They have appeared in State Titles games five times; 2001, 2003, 2004, 2010, and 2011, winning it in '03 and '04. That continues to prove Shelby can hang with anyone, anytime. Again, even Crest has been far more consistently dominating then Richmond County. Richmond County's weakness since 1998 is driving their desperate and confusing comments in this thread.
Regarding 1997, good research on the Crest versus Gaffney game opening the season. Gaffney (the most successful, sustained, winning football program in South Carolina with 17 titles consistently won over 90+years) went on to be State Champs again that year, in the largest classification. But I guess your weak attempt was somehow to discredit defending 4AA-A State Champ Crest's strength there and the 2A Shelby's "upset". By the way, the Golden Lions had just concluded a four year series with that same Gaffney program the year before. While losing all four from 1993 to 1996, Shelby played very competitively, losing once by 3 and another by 7. Gaffney was State Champs in 1992, also. The Gaffneys and the Crests of the world are why Shelby's overall winning percentage since 1968 is second, second only to RC. But it is also the reason our playoff performances over the years are astounding. If Shelby had only played at our classification, well, there is little doubt we would own the winning percentage stat also.
Finally, we are going to ignore your WNCHSAA challenge. Many programs from that group have performed very successfully over the years and the fact remains, the two associations were rivals at the outset and the champs never played each other. In 1972, 13-0 Shelby was voted the state's #1 3A team over the NCHSAA winner. Who knows? We recognize all Championships as valid, as does the current NCHSAA, as demonstrated on their archives. A better question would be, if RC is the top "program", why have they only managed one appearance in the "sub divided" playoff era? Thanks for stepping in that one.
We like the Notre Dame style of stadium, also. Here's a trivia question for you. What does the term PT stand for in football statistics? I think we got you there, too.
'98 are you saying that if you had a dozen high school football analysts from around the nation and you asked them to name the top teams (and programs) in NC some of them would say Shelby?
btango, finally we have it down to what you have been saying all along.
Let's ignore the history, the facts, and the statistics. Who gets the media attention? Who wins the beauty contest? Who is most popular?
Actually, your dozen national analysts would probably mention Independence first. And that just proves our point once again. What, if anything, did the Independence program accomplish before 2000? Nothing. And they have been conspicuously absent from the deep playoff scene since their last title game appearance, a loss in 2007. Independence has done nothing since the recruiting scrutiny occurred and Knotts booked it out of town. Yet they would still win your beauty contest.
What we are saying, is that if you objectively presented for analysis, without naming the school, the overall performance resumes of all the existing high school football programs in North Carolina, regardless of classification, the Shelby Golden Lions are the most successful, sustained, winning program in the state.
RC is disqualified for its weak showing since 1998. Reidsville is disqualified for its recent 31 consecutive year absence from even a title game from 1970 to 2001.
Game over.
btango, finally we have it down to what you have been saying all along.
Let's ignore the history, the facts, and the statistics. Who gets the media attention? Who wins the beauty contest? Who is most popular?
Actually, your dozen national analysts would probably mention Independence first. And that just proves our point once again. What, if anything, did the Independence program accomplish before 2000? Nothing. And they have been conspicuously absent from the deep playoff scene since their last title game appearance, a loss in 2007. Independence has done nothing since the recruiting scrutiny occurred and Knotts booked it out of town. Yet they would still win your beauty contest.
What we are saying, is that if you objectively presented for analysis, without naming the school, the overall performance resumes of all the existing high school football programs in North Carolina, regardless of classification, the Shelby Golden Lions are the most successful, sustained, winning program in the state.
RC is disqualified for its weak showing since 1998. Reidsville is disqualified for its recent 31 consecutive year absence from even a title game from 1970 to 2001.
Game over.
Crest has been more successful since dropping from 4A to 3A much like Shelby was dropping from 3A to 2A. Throw Reidsville in that category. You often chastise Reidsville fans and tell them they are not relevant because they did not win a title for 31 years and their titles from years ago do not count. In your argument against Richmond or any other school you use the argument that the old titles do count.
I was not attempting to discredit Shelby's win over Crest in 1997 but you mentioned their preseason rankings so would noting they lost the week before not be relevant. You use Gaffney as a measuring stick but they have had their struggles the last several years but got some titles in also. Some years they won 4A-I titles but lost in the regular season to 4A-II champion Byrnes. Most people would tell you the top program in SC right now would be Byrnes and Gaffney probably trails more teams than the Rebels. Take that as a positive to what Shelby has accomplished. Shelby played Gaffney 1993-1997. Correct Gaffney bracketed their series with Shelby with state titles in 1992 and 1997 along with a solid 1993 team. 1994 through 1997 they lost six games twice and four once. Made it to the second round twice and third round once. Not stellar teams for Gaffney but Shelby deserves big props for playing them and giving them good games. 1995 and 1997 were solid Shelby squads.
My statement that Shelby would have probably not been a top twenty team in NC for the last fifteen years except for two seasons covered 2013 back to 1999. Since you are pulling up a post from January 2014 the previous season would be 2013. Not sure why 1997 and 1998 were brought up. No way to prove it. You think Shelby was one of the top twenty teams overall (all classifications) in the state during that time period except for moer than a few seasons and I do not think they were.
When people used to bring up Indy as a top program they had some things lacking. The facilities were inferior to many. The support was not very strong from the student body or community which is not unusual for Charlotte schools. I would tell people they had the best team but the program had some shortcomings.
To people who follow football in the area the decline of the Indy program started in 2005 when they were lucky to get wins in several games.
It was known in 2005 when Knotts returned to Indy that he would leave after the 2009 season due to hitting 30 years in the system. If they still had the winning streak may be he would have stayed.
In 2008 they lost five defensive starters from the first day of practice until the regional final where they lost to the eventual state champion. 2009 they lost to the eventual state champion, Butler, in the regional final. Butler is located five miles from Indy and won state titles in 2009, 2010, and 2012 To say they did nothing after the recruiting scrutiny is far fetched. The redistricting for the opening of Rocky River set them back but they have gradually climbed back into a solid team.
@aregood I think I know who you are now! I promise you this J.G. wouldn't put up with 4 losses to the Scots
.
dcov 33 I hate to tell you this but JG was the one who hired Coach Hoggard to be the head Coach. I was in his office the morning the announcement was made and talked with both J and Coach Hoggard. There was a committee of three but it was really JG"S decision.I can assure you that he would not have any problem with 4 loses to the Scots. He would have advised him and gave him his opinion but would not have wanted to get rid of him over losing to Scotland.
This reminds me of the old Southeastern 3a conference before Richmond was opened. Lumberton Coach Tunney Brooks,and Sanford Coach Paul Gay very seldom beat Rockingham Coach Bill Eutsler. No one was calling for them to be fired. Bill Eutsler was the first AD at Richmond and set up the program at Richmond. All three coaches are now in the NC High School Hall of Fame. I have great respect for all three men. Coach Brooks won the conference championship in 1962 and played Eutsler for the Eastern Championship. You could not play a state championship during the 62 and 63 seasons and we had Co- state champions. During the middle to late 60's Sanford ran off two or three conference championships and Rockingham was struggling.What is different is that I heard no one calling for Eutsler to be fired.
Look at the Rockingham High School site (run by JG's wife). Coach Eutsler's former players get together with him twice a year to celebrate our love for this man. He is now 96 years old and unfortunately is in failing health. Up until two years ago he would do 200 setups each morning. Players from as far back as 1942 and most of his former assistant coaches come to the event. We have started a Scholarship at Wingate University in his honor. Wingate's president is one of his former players.This is the way a former coach should be treated. How about a get together for all of Richmond's former head coaches.
As for who I am just use my handle and look at a Richmond year book from 1979 thru 2008. :You will get your answer from there.
dcov 33 I hate to tell you this but JG was the one who hired Coach Hoggard to be the head Coach. I was in his office the morning the announcement was made and talked with both J and Coach Hoggard. There was a committee of three but it was really JG"S decision.I can assure you that he would not have any problem with 4 loses to the Scots. He would have advised him and gave him his opinion but would not have wanted to get rid of him over losing to Scotland.
This reminds me of the old Southeastern 3a conference before Richmond was opened. Lumberton Coach Tunney Brooks,and Sanford Coach Paul Gay very seldom beat Rockingham Coach Bill Eutsler. No one was calling for them to be fired. Bill Eutsler was the first AD at Richmond and set up the program at Richmond. All three coaches are now in the NC High School Hall of Fame. I have great respect for all three men. Coach Brooks won the conference championship in 1962 and played Eutsler for the Eastern Championship. You could not play a state championship during the 62 and 63 seasons and we had Co- state champions. During the middle to late 60's Sanford ran off two or three conference championships and Rockingham was struggling.What is different is that I heard no one calling for Eutsler to be fired.
Look at the Rockingham High School site (run by JG's wife). Coach Eutsler's former players get together with him twice a year to celebrate our love for this man. He is now 96 years old and unfortunately is in failing health. Up until two years ago he would do 200 setups each morning. Players from as far back as 1942 and most of his former assistant coaches come to the event. We have started a Scholarship at Wingate University in his honor. Wingate's president is one of his former players.This is the way a former coach should be treated. How about a get together for all of Richmond's former head coaches.
As for who I am just use my handle and look at a Richmond year book from 1979 thru 2008. :You will get your answer from there.
@AREGOOD I read about coach Eustler and his former players in the daily journal a couple of years ago, also at the home games you work at the gate close to Hwy. #1, my brother had you for a class and he loves you to death, for years he talked about you all the time
if I am correct.
According to maxpreps top 50 all time winningest hs football programs.
Gaffney sc is #35
Shelby nc is #41
Richmond is not listed
Indy is not listed
Gaffney sc is #35
Shelby nc is #41
Richmond is not listed
Indy is not listed
Maxpreps also says that in the past 10 years that Indy has been the most dominant program in Nc. Richmond and Shelby are tied for the #7 spot during that span.
Btango- you really gotta do better than that. That post is slammed with inaccuracies, sounds thrown
together, and begs the question again; who are you, what school did you graduate from, and what
schools are you currently hyping? We already know you are a Richmond Co. promoter, despite their
proven irrelevance for the last 15 years. And we have been through this before with you as you have
attempted to somehow diminish the WNCHSAA as some minor league to the all-powerful NCHSAA. If
you want to be taken seriously as any kind of knowledgeable historian on the subject of High School
football in NC, get your facts straight and get over your superiority complex with the NCHSAA. You are as
bad as the Richmond Co. posters and their "only 4A can claim dominance" garbage.
Often we end this attack subject with a simple response. Since the winner of the NCHSAA title and the
winner of the WNCHSAA title never met, neither could claim superiority over the other and even the
NCHSAA recognized the WNCHSAA as having a "Champion". Both were champs. But now you want to
make a case that it was mathematically easier to win the WNCHSAA, disregarding the competition, just
based on numbers (significantly incorrect numbers by the way). Then you try and make the case that
even the competition level was diminished, based on a tiny 7 year window of time immediately
following the merger of the two associations. Incorrect info again. Let's take it one paragraph at a time
for corrections.
The WNCHSAA began in 1930, the same year the NCHSAA made significant changes in their structure. It
lasted until the summer of 1977 and then joined the NCHSAA. There was no state-wide unified
champion from 1930 until 1977. It was an incredibly competitive association for those 47 years, yet you
somehow just reference the 70's here. There were 44 schools that were members all or part of that
time. There were four conferences during the period you mention, some with as many as 10 teams, and
yes, three playoff games to determine the champ.
Using your own math now, the WNCHSAA as just representing half the state or one of today's sub-
classifications, was a comparable match. And do we need to make the case for how difficult it is to
defeat a quality conference foe TWICE! Ask South Point about that. Also, the Division II playoffs involved
half of each side of the state respectively, and was certainly as legitimate a championship as this
watered down format today or the previous year-ending regional or divisional/sectional titles. The
NCHSAA recognizes all those titles as championships.
This paragraph you have all wrong btango. Correctly it should read; Shelby won the WNCHSAA title in
1968, 1970, 1972, 1975(tie), and 1976, the last football season of the association. Shelby played for and
lost the title in 1963, 1969, and 1974. After merging with the NCHSAA, Shelby played for and lost the
Division II championship in 1983 and then won it in 1984. The first year in the NCHSAA, Shelby went wire
to wire as the #1 3A team in the state for the 10 regular season games. They then lost in the first round
3-0, to very much a former WNCHSAA member in Newton-Conover, who happened to be coached by a
former Golden Lion, Don Patrick who had played for and idolized Shelby's legendary coach Pearley Allen.
Newton Conover's field is named for Don Patrick.
12 State Titles in 24 years from 1977 to 2000 for former WNCHSAA members. Something wrong with
50% of them? From 1977 to 1984 only South Point winning in 1979? How about representing? 1978-
Watauga won, 1980-Lexington lost, 1984 Kannapolis Brown lost, and of course 1984 Div II Shelby won.
Not to mention that Hibriten, Crest, and Thomasville were in the Western Finals those years. In 1985
Lexington won the state, 1986 Lexington won it again as did Shelby, 1987 and 1988 Thomasville lost and
won. Why did you stop at 1984? Get it right man. Now your bias is showing.
And now for the final blow. Consider the following information for the past 11 years on former
WNCHSAA members. And remember, they can only be from the West.
2013 State Finalists-Shelby, Crest, Concord, Monroe. \\Western Regional Finalist- Albemarle
2012 Concord.\\Morganton Freedom,Albemarle,Monroe,Salisbury,Statesville,N Davidson
2011 Lincolnton,W Rowan,Crest.\\Asheboro,Thomasville,Shelby,Burns,Mooresville
2010 Albemarle,Carver,Salisbury,W Rowan,Crest,Davie Co.\\Lincolnton,Shelby,Hibriten (win that
WNCHSAA btango)
2009 Albemarle,Newton-Conover,W Rowan,South Point.\\Lexington,Salisbury
2008 Thomasville,Newton-Conover,W Rowan,Kannapolis Brown.\\South Point,Kings Mountain
2007 Lincolnton,Shelby,N Gaston.\\Albemarle,Watauga
2006 Thomasville,Shelby,Concord.\\Carver,Watauga
2005 Thomasville,Lincolnton,Shelby.\\Kannapolis Brown,Crest
2004 Thomasville,Shelby,Concord,Crest.\\Davie Co
2003 Albemarle,South Point,Crest.\\Shelby,Hibriten
Still believe Shelby had "better odds" to win in the WNCHSAA? It would have been interesting if the two
champs had met. The WNCHSAA champ would have more than held its own. The list above confirms it,
factually. And Shelby's unmatched sustained success in both associations continues into a sixth
consecutive decade.
together, and begs the question again; who are you, what school did you graduate from, and what
schools are you currently hyping? We already know you are a Richmond Co. promoter, despite their
proven irrelevance for the last 15 years. And we have been through this before with you as you have
attempted to somehow diminish the WNCHSAA as some minor league to the all-powerful NCHSAA. If
you want to be taken seriously as any kind of knowledgeable historian on the subject of High School
football in NC, get your facts straight and get over your superiority complex with the NCHSAA. You are as
bad as the Richmond Co. posters and their "only 4A can claim dominance" garbage.
Often we end this attack subject with a simple response. Since the winner of the NCHSAA title and the
winner of the WNCHSAA title never met, neither could claim superiority over the other and even the
NCHSAA recognized the WNCHSAA as having a "Champion". Both were champs. But now you want to
make a case that it was mathematically easier to win the WNCHSAA, disregarding the competition, just
based on numbers (significantly incorrect numbers by the way). Then you try and make the case that
even the competition level was diminished, based on a tiny 7 year window of time immediately
following the merger of the two associations. Incorrect info again. Let's take it one paragraph at a time
for corrections.
The WNCHSAA began in 1930, the same year the NCHSAA made significant changes in their structure. It
lasted until the summer of 1977 and then joined the NCHSAA. There was no state-wide unified
champion from 1930 until 1977. It was an incredibly competitive association for those 47 years, yet you
somehow just reference the 70's here. There were 44 schools that were members all or part of that
time. There were four conferences during the period you mention, some with as many as 10 teams, and
yes, three playoff games to determine the champ.
Using your own math now, the WNCHSAA as just representing half the state or one of today's sub-
classifications, was a comparable match. And do we need to make the case for how difficult it is to
defeat a quality conference foe TWICE! Ask South Point about that. Also, the Division II playoffs involved
half of each side of the state respectively, and was certainly as legitimate a championship as this
watered down format today or the previous year-ending regional or divisional/sectional titles. The
NCHSAA recognizes all those titles as championships.
This paragraph you have all wrong btango. Correctly it should read; Shelby won the WNCHSAA title in
1968, 1970, 1972, 1975(tie), and 1976, the last football season of the association. Shelby played for and
lost the title in 1963, 1969, and 1974. After merging with the NCHSAA, Shelby played for and lost the
Division II championship in 1983 and then won it in 1984. The first year in the NCHSAA, Shelby went wire
to wire as the #1 3A team in the state for the 10 regular season games. They then lost in the first round
3-0, to very much a former WNCHSAA member in Newton-Conover, who happened to be coached by a
former Golden Lion, Don Patrick who had played for and idolized Shelby's legendary coach Pearley Allen.
Newton Conover's field is named for Don Patrick.
12 State Titles in 24 years from 1977 to 2000 for former WNCHSAA members. Something wrong with
50% of them? From 1977 to 1984 only South Point winning in 1979? How about representing? 1978-
Watauga won, 1980-Lexington lost, 1984 Kannapolis Brown lost, and of course 1984 Div II Shelby won.
Not to mention that Hibriten, Crest, and Thomasville were in the Western Finals those years. In 1985
Lexington won the state, 1986 Lexington won it again as did Shelby, 1987 and 1988 Thomasville lost and
won. Why did you stop at 1984? Get it right man. Now your bias is showing.
And now for the final blow. Consider the following information for the past 11 years on former
WNCHSAA members. And remember, they can only be from the West.
2013 State Finalists-Shelby, Crest, Concord, Monroe. \\Western Regional Finalist- Albemarle
2012 Concord.\\Morganton Freedom,Albemarle,Monroe,Salisbury,Statesville,N Davidson
2011 Lincolnton,W Rowan,Crest.\\Asheboro,Thomasville,Shelby,Burns,Mooresville
2010 Albemarle,Carver,Salisbury,W Rowan,Crest,Davie Co.\\Lincolnton,Shelby,Hibriten (win that
WNCHSAA btango)
2009 Albemarle,Newton-Conover,W Rowan,South Point.\\Lexington,Salisbury
2008 Thomasville,Newton-Conover,W Rowan,Kannapolis Brown.\\South Point,Kings Mountain
2007 Lincolnton,Shelby,N Gaston.\\Albemarle,Watauga
2006 Thomasville,Shelby,Concord.\\Carver,Watauga
2005 Thomasville,Lincolnton,Shelby.\\Kannapolis Brown,Crest
2004 Thomasville,Shelby,Concord,Crest.\\Davie Co
2003 Albemarle,South Point,Crest.\\Shelby,Hibriten
Still believe Shelby had "better odds" to win in the WNCHSAA? It would have been interesting if the two
champs had met. The WNCHSAA champ would have more than held its own. The list above confirms it,
factually. And Shelby's unmatched sustained success in both associations continues into a sixth
consecutive decade.
Nice catch Swain County fans, and we certainly meant no disrespect to your outstanding program.
But a point of clarification may help you understand our statement, and defend our "no one else is
close" position. A "decade" is 10 years, no matter how you slice it. Most consider that a new decade
begins with a year ending in a zero. While Swain County also has a title game appearance in the 60's
(1964, a loss), and one in the 70's (1979, a win), that is a 15 year gap and may be why you Swain Co. fans
only considered 1979 to 2012 as your "five decades". In our reference to the previous "five decades"
we appeared from 1963 to 2007, with no more than a 9 year gap between appearances. Now, in 2013
we are here again for a sixth consecutive decade. While that is a record Swain Co. can't go back and fix,
we certainly give huge props to your program as next behind Shelby in sustained success for
generations.
With that understanding, it is the overall consistent performance within those six decades that clearly
separates Shelby from other successful programs. In Swain Co.'s case, you won the title 8 times in 12
appearances from 1964 to 2011. And both the appearances and the wins were evenly spread over that
period. Shelby has won the title 11 times in 20 appearances from 1963 to 2013, also evenly spread over
the years. Hopefully we add a 12th title Saturday.
While you may not want to consider Swain Co. a distant second, you must agree it would take decades
to catch the Golden Lions under the best conditions. Thus the "no one else is close" position. And we
haven't even mentioned that Shelby is #1 in all-time wins, appeared in the 1924 state title game and
own a 1947 State Championship.
The good news is, you probably are in second place in historic sustained success. Robbinsville has 12
titles, but none since 1992. Murphy has 7 titles in 12 appearances from 1961 to 2012, but was a no show
from 1997 to 2009. Thomasville has a deep history. Reidsville has the most titles at 18, but was a no
show from even an appearance from 1971 to 2001, 31 consecutive years. That is why we challenge their
"Football capital of NC" bogus claim. And of course the "johnny come lately's" that think their recent
success gets them in this conversation. Independence, Butler, even SW Onslow with tremendous recent
success had no titles before 1999. And Shelby's bitter rival Crest had no titles just twenty years ago.
But Richmond Co posters get the prize for biggest boasters with the weakest record. Only 6 titles from
1978 to 1998 and a gift win over Britt in the title game of 2008. Yet they claim to be the historically best
program in the state. Just ask them. They love to make the case that 4A football eliminates the lower
classifications claims because Richmond Co would defeat them. With that absurd logic, there are some
higher classified schools in the state that would beat them- UNC, NC State, ECU. Meanwhile, lately they
keep going out in the second round of the playoffs and posting nonsense on the 4A board to keep the
Richmond Co. name on the "new" list. Other than 2008, Richmond Co. has been irrelevant for the last 15
years. And they know it.
But a point of clarification may help you understand our statement, and defend our "no one else is
close" position. A "decade" is 10 years, no matter how you slice it. Most consider that a new decade
begins with a year ending in a zero. While Swain County also has a title game appearance in the 60's
(1964, a loss), and one in the 70's (1979, a win), that is a 15 year gap and may be why you Swain Co. fans
only considered 1979 to 2012 as your "five decades". In our reference to the previous "five decades"
we appeared from 1963 to 2007, with no more than a 9 year gap between appearances. Now, in 2013
we are here again for a sixth consecutive decade. While that is a record Swain Co. can't go back and fix,
we certainly give huge props to your program as next behind Shelby in sustained success for
generations.
With that understanding, it is the overall consistent performance within those six decades that clearly
separates Shelby from other successful programs. In Swain Co.'s case, you won the title 8 times in 12
appearances from 1964 to 2011. And both the appearances and the wins were evenly spread over that
period. Shelby has won the title 11 times in 20 appearances from 1963 to 2013, also evenly spread over
the years. Hopefully we add a 12th title Saturday.
While you may not want to consider Swain Co. a distant second, you must agree it would take decades
to catch the Golden Lions under the best conditions. Thus the "no one else is close" position. And we
haven't even mentioned that Shelby is #1 in all-time wins, appeared in the 1924 state title game and
own a 1947 State Championship.
The good news is, you probably are in second place in historic sustained success. Robbinsville has 12
titles, but none since 1992. Murphy has 7 titles in 12 appearances from 1961 to 2012, but was a no show
from 1997 to 2009. Thomasville has a deep history. Reidsville has the most titles at 18, but was a no
show from even an appearance from 1971 to 2001, 31 consecutive years. That is why we challenge their
"Football capital of NC" bogus claim. And of course the "johnny come lately's" that think their recent
success gets them in this conversation. Independence, Butler, even SW Onslow with tremendous recent
success had no titles before 1999. And Shelby's bitter rival Crest had no titles just twenty years ago.
But Richmond Co posters get the prize for biggest boasters with the weakest record. Only 6 titles from
1978 to 1998 and a gift win over Britt in the title game of 2008. Yet they claim to be the historically best
program in the state. Just ask them. They love to make the case that 4A football eliminates the lower
classifications claims because Richmond Co would defeat them. With that absurd logic, there are some
higher classified schools in the state that would beat them- UNC, NC State, ECU. Meanwhile, lately they
keep going out in the second round of the playoffs and posting nonsense on the 4A board to keep the
Richmond Co. name on the "new" list. Other than 2008, Richmond Co. has been irrelevant for the last 15
years. And they know it.
btango- So now you only post on 1A, when earlier you felt the need to post on all 4 boards. Why?
Embarrassed maybe? And you admit you don't have your "database" handy so you are going off
memory? But you earlier went confidently on all 4 boards to give a "full picture" and "more to the story"
in response to our post on Shelby High Football-The True Dynasty in NC High School Football. And you
call yourself a WNCHSAA man? No, you are a confused man, with more than a touch of jealousy toward
the Golden Lion's program. Let's call it like it is, btango.
One would have to go no further to justify the WNCHSAA competitiveness than the fact that FOUR
former members of the WNCHSAA are playing THIS WEEKEND FOR STATE TITLES. Both 2A-2AA and 3A-
3AA. Basically all four classifications the former WNCHSAA blended into when merging with the
NCHSAA. Yet, you attempt to diminish Shelby's overall dominance through a weak numbers game and
erroneous and cleverly disguised history lesson.
And you still keep making glaring errors.
So we are definitely wrong on Newton-Conover? We will help you out a bit and direct you to, none
other than, the NCHSAA website which also posts history on the WNCHSAA. Not only does Newton-
Conover show up in several Championship years there, THEY WERE CHARTER MEMBERS IN FOUNDING
THE ASSOCIATION. Now we will pause while you clean off your shoes .
And quit whining about not having your data and your wonderful previous years of posts. Do your
homework now. Don't get on here and post misinformation to be taken in by others and not explain
your motivation is to somehow diminish Shelby's unmatched sustained success, even if you have to
make it up. You are exposed now, as are many others, that attempt what you are doing by not facing the
truth of factual history.
See ya in Chapel Hill and come by and visit us. We are not hard to find.
Next.
Embarrassed maybe? And you admit you don't have your "database" handy so you are going off
memory? But you earlier went confidently on all 4 boards to give a "full picture" and "more to the story"
in response to our post on Shelby High Football-The True Dynasty in NC High School Football. And you
call yourself a WNCHSAA man? No, you are a confused man, with more than a touch of jealousy toward
the Golden Lion's program. Let's call it like it is, btango.
One would have to go no further to justify the WNCHSAA competitiveness than the fact that FOUR
former members of the WNCHSAA are playing THIS WEEKEND FOR STATE TITLES. Both 2A-2AA and 3A-
3AA. Basically all four classifications the former WNCHSAA blended into when merging with the
NCHSAA. Yet, you attempt to diminish Shelby's overall dominance through a weak numbers game and
erroneous and cleverly disguised history lesson.
And you still keep making glaring errors.
So we are definitely wrong on Newton-Conover? We will help you out a bit and direct you to, none
other than, the NCHSAA website which also posts history on the WNCHSAA. Not only does Newton-
Conover show up in several Championship years there, THEY WERE CHARTER MEMBERS IN FOUNDING
THE ASSOCIATION. Now we will pause while you clean off your shoes .
And quit whining about not having your data and your wonderful previous years of posts. Do your
homework now. Don't get on here and post misinformation to be taken in by others and not explain
your motivation is to somehow diminish Shelby's unmatched sustained success, even if you have to
make it up. You are exposed now, as are many others, that attempt what you are doing by not facing the
truth of factual history.
See ya in Chapel Hill and come by and visit us. We are not hard to find.
Next.
btango- Glad to know you are going to correct your mistakes. Keep your pencil handy because you have
made a ton more. Before we are done with you, not only will you be embarrassed and exposed, your
posts will be rendered not only mistake filled misinformation, but also unworthy of any serious objective
value. Your colors are showing and your name dropping boors us. Who are you and on what authority
do you speak?
Once again in this most recent post, you continue your theme of diminishing the WNCHSAA with false
statements over the terms "Association Champions' versus "state titles". Almost immediately, ocdavis
posts that you couldn't be more wrong about that. With that bias established let's look at your
response.
"The first year in the NCHSAA, Shelby lost to a non WNCHSAA (team) in the first round of the playoffs."
That team was Newton-Conover, very much a fabric of WNCHSAA history as we have shown. Your intent
was to show a Shelby comeuppance now that they were in the mighty NCHSAA, yet you never
mentioned Newton-Conover's role in that history. Later you use the term "former WNCHSAA". And we
are all to understand that you meant "only the WNCHSAA members present during the 70's". You are
full of it. So now we discount the titles of the 70's, but not the titles in the decades when Newton-
Conover was present. Now this is getting hilarious.
Your comparison is garbage. All anyone interested has to see is the complete dominance by Shelby from
1968 to 1976 in the wonderful WNCHSAA, and their title game presence in 1983(D2 loss), 1984(D2 win),
1986(title win), 1987(title win), and 1988(title loss) in the almighty NCHSAA. Overall, FIVE CONSECUTIVE
RECENT DECADES of multiple title game appearances EACH DECADE through 2007, and at least one win
in each. Plus 2013 now and a sixth decade. So btango you chose 1977 to 1985 to highlight Shelby's
struggle coming out of the WNCHSAA? Do you see how pathetically weak that is? We went from 1989 to
1996 before we appeared again. Why not mention that "struggle"? The fact is, Shelby has never gone
more than nine years between title game appearances in the last FIFTY YEARS! Nice try.
Albemarle? You attempted to diminish the whole of the WNCHSAA and its "32" teams and its playoff
format versus the NCHSAA. We came back and clearly showed that it may have been more difficult to
win the WNCHSAA than the current set-up. All the former WNCHSAA teams mentioned have performed
at a high level in football over the years. Some more lately than earlier. We don't know what Albemarle
may have become had the WNCHSAA continued. We also don't know what they may have done had
they been in the NCHSAA earlier, 1A or otherwise. What we do know is they are currently also on a
historical roll and we are proud of their contributions in the WNCHSAA. They were regulars in the title
games in the 40's and 50's. They defeated Shelby in the 1944 title game.
We don't embellish anything. We state facts and that ticks people off that don't want to face them. We
don't attempt to diminish any other programs. We will diminish any individuals that claim their program
is something it is not (Richmond Co., Reidsville-31 consecutive recent years with no title game
appearances is a lack of continuity, wouldn't you say?). And we will diminish individuals such as yourself,
that use a hidden agenda in an attempt to weaken Shelby Football's undeniable factual and historical
position. Why did you feel the need to comment on the six decades? Is your ego that big that you think
we all wanted to hear your take on it? It wasn't posted for a response. It didn't require a "full picture"
and "more to the story". Did you think we would not respond to you? And by the way, Shelby football
is never really "down". See above.
The NCHSAA officially calls other championships "Other Championships". They recognize these other
championships as legitimate and make a point to include them in title day programs and on their web
site. They make NO ATTEMPT to diminish their value as Championship TITLES won in the STATE of North
Carolina. That is good enough for us, and it should be good enough for anyone objective.
Time to come clean, btango.
P.S. And by the way, you are way off on your WNCHSAA history. Some years, some of the conferences
had as many as 10 teams. Trust us on that.
made a ton more. Before we are done with you, not only will you be embarrassed and exposed, your
posts will be rendered not only mistake filled misinformation, but also unworthy of any serious objective
value. Your colors are showing and your name dropping boors us. Who are you and on what authority
do you speak?
Once again in this most recent post, you continue your theme of diminishing the WNCHSAA with false
statements over the terms "Association Champions' versus "state titles". Almost immediately, ocdavis
posts that you couldn't be more wrong about that. With that bias established let's look at your
response.
"The first year in the NCHSAA, Shelby lost to a non WNCHSAA (team) in the first round of the playoffs."
That team was Newton-Conover, very much a fabric of WNCHSAA history as we have shown. Your intent
was to show a Shelby comeuppance now that they were in the mighty NCHSAA, yet you never
mentioned Newton-Conover's role in that history. Later you use the term "former WNCHSAA". And we
are all to understand that you meant "only the WNCHSAA members present during the 70's". You are
full of it. So now we discount the titles of the 70's, but not the titles in the decades when Newton-
Conover was present. Now this is getting hilarious.
Your comparison is garbage. All anyone interested has to see is the complete dominance by Shelby from
1968 to 1976 in the wonderful WNCHSAA, and their title game presence in 1983(D2 loss), 1984(D2 win),
1986(title win), 1987(title win), and 1988(title loss) in the almighty NCHSAA. Overall, FIVE CONSECUTIVE
RECENT DECADES of multiple title game appearances EACH DECADE through 2007, and at least one win
in each. Plus 2013 now and a sixth decade. So btango you chose 1977 to 1985 to highlight Shelby's
struggle coming out of the WNCHSAA? Do you see how pathetically weak that is? We went from 1989 to
1996 before we appeared again. Why not mention that "struggle"? The fact is, Shelby has never gone
more than nine years between title game appearances in the last FIFTY YEARS! Nice try.
Albemarle? You attempted to diminish the whole of the WNCHSAA and its "32" teams and its playoff
format versus the NCHSAA. We came back and clearly showed that it may have been more difficult to
win the WNCHSAA than the current set-up. All the former WNCHSAA teams mentioned have performed
at a high level in football over the years. Some more lately than earlier. We don't know what Albemarle
may have become had the WNCHSAA continued. We also don't know what they may have done had
they been in the NCHSAA earlier, 1A or otherwise. What we do know is they are currently also on a
historical roll and we are proud of their contributions in the WNCHSAA. They were regulars in the title
games in the 40's and 50's. They defeated Shelby in the 1944 title game.
We don't embellish anything. We state facts and that ticks people off that don't want to face them. We
don't attempt to diminish any other programs. We will diminish any individuals that claim their program
is something it is not (Richmond Co., Reidsville-31 consecutive recent years with no title game
appearances is a lack of continuity, wouldn't you say?). And we will diminish individuals such as yourself,
that use a hidden agenda in an attempt to weaken Shelby Football's undeniable factual and historical
position. Why did you feel the need to comment on the six decades? Is your ego that big that you think
we all wanted to hear your take on it? It wasn't posted for a response. It didn't require a "full picture"
and "more to the story". Did you think we would not respond to you? And by the way, Shelby football
is never really "down". See above.
The NCHSAA officially calls other championships "Other Championships". They recognize these other
championships as legitimate and make a point to include them in title day programs and on their web
site. They make NO ATTEMPT to diminish their value as Championship TITLES won in the STATE of North
Carolina. That is good enough for us, and it should be good enough for anyone objective.
Time to come clean, btango.
P.S. And by the way, you are way off on your WNCHSAA history. Some years, some of the conferences
had as many as 10 teams. Trust us on that.
TGT says - Any team that wins the final playoff game that the higher-ups allow is a champion in my book.
btango says - I agree 100% TGT.
crazy_wildcat says - Counting all championships be it wnchsaa or nchsaa, how many titles does Shelby
have, period. Because now no matter what, they all are recognized by the NCHSAA as championships.
That could be your claim. The Most Successful Football Program in The State for the last 60 years. To
me that is what you have. BE PROUD !
And we are sure btango agrees with that 100% now, also.
That's all we were ever saying. We have always acknowledged that Reidsville was the most dominant
program in their first half century of football, when they won most of their titles. But despite their
recent renewed success and their lead of 18 titles , 31 consecutive recent years, from 1971 to 2001, as a
no show in any title game, eliminates any claim they may have as a sustained (read "capital")
championship program for 100 years. Shelby, on the other hand, was appearing in title games in 1924,
1944, and winning the Championship in 1947, all to go along with the 60 recent years you mention
above. Couple that with BEING THE CURRENT #1 in ALL-TIME WINS in North Carolina (all classifications)
and the astounding playoff performances (all classifications) cited on our website,
www.shelbyhighfootball.com, well ..
Anyone denying Shelby sits at the top, as truly a Dynasty by definition, and the most successful,
sustained, winning high school football program in the state is just denying facts. Not opinion. Facts. To
crazy_wildcat, the term "dynasty" is often misused in today's sports world. Several titles in a row or
within a decade, is often termed a "dynasty". The 49ers of the 80's for example, or Robbinsville,
Reidsville, Independence, Richmond Co., and others that have had tremendous "runs" of success. But a
TRUE DYNASTY covers GENERATIONS. The New York Yankees are a true sports dynasty. 27 titles since
1923, evenly spaced for the most part. And that doesn't include when they qualified for the World
Series and they lost. No huge gaps like the programs mentioned before. And certainly none that just
started recently.
To sslabman, knine1, and BK131-$, we gave props to Swain Co. and Murphy earlier in this thread. Go
back and read them. Robbinsville needs to get back in the title game mix like Reidsville has after their
recent long absence from them. We recognize Robbinsville as having the most titles since 1968 on our
website, www.shelbyhighfootball.com. We chose "since 1968" as that is the year recognized by the NFL
as the beginning of the modern era of football. Look it up. We don't make this stuff up. 1968 also closely
parallels integration of the public schools which has greatly influenced the game. Robbinsville is #1 at 12
titles, but hasn't even appeared since 1992. Shelby is #2 with 11 in 18 appearances (19 tomorrow,
evenly spaced). Swain has 8 titles in 12 appearances in that same period; Murphy has 7 out of 10
appearances. No doubt, strong for your area. But we are not discussing areas, conferences, or
conference winners here. Just individual programs. Don't get us started on Cleveland County.
btango says - I agree 100% TGT.
crazy_wildcat says - Counting all championships be it wnchsaa or nchsaa, how many titles does Shelby
have, period. Because now no matter what, they all are recognized by the NCHSAA as championships.
That could be your claim. The Most Successful Football Program in The State for the last 60 years. To
me that is what you have. BE PROUD !
And we are sure btango agrees with that 100% now, also.
That's all we were ever saying. We have always acknowledged that Reidsville was the most dominant
program in their first half century of football, when they won most of their titles. But despite their
recent renewed success and their lead of 18 titles , 31 consecutive recent years, from 1971 to 2001, as a
no show in any title game, eliminates any claim they may have as a sustained (read "capital")
championship program for 100 years. Shelby, on the other hand, was appearing in title games in 1924,
1944, and winning the Championship in 1947, all to go along with the 60 recent years you mention
above. Couple that with BEING THE CURRENT #1 in ALL-TIME WINS in North Carolina (all classifications)
and the astounding playoff performances (all classifications) cited on our website,
www.shelbyhighfootball.com, well ..
Anyone denying Shelby sits at the top, as truly a Dynasty by definition, and the most successful,
sustained, winning high school football program in the state is just denying facts. Not opinion. Facts. To
crazy_wildcat, the term "dynasty" is often misused in today's sports world. Several titles in a row or
within a decade, is often termed a "dynasty". The 49ers of the 80's for example, or Robbinsville,
Reidsville, Independence, Richmond Co., and others that have had tremendous "runs" of success. But a
TRUE DYNASTY covers GENERATIONS. The New York Yankees are a true sports dynasty. 27 titles since
1923, evenly spaced for the most part. And that doesn't include when they qualified for the World
Series and they lost. No huge gaps like the programs mentioned before. And certainly none that just
started recently.
To sslabman, knine1, and BK131-$, we gave props to Swain Co. and Murphy earlier in this thread. Go
back and read them. Robbinsville needs to get back in the title game mix like Reidsville has after their
recent long absence from them. We recognize Robbinsville as having the most titles since 1968 on our
website, www.shelbyhighfootball.com. We chose "since 1968" as that is the year recognized by the NFL
as the beginning of the modern era of football. Look it up. We don't make this stuff up. 1968 also closely
parallels integration of the public schools which has greatly influenced the game. Robbinsville is #1 at 12
titles, but hasn't even appeared since 1992. Shelby is #2 with 11 in 18 appearances (19 tomorrow,
evenly spaced). Swain has 8 titles in 12 appearances in that same period; Murphy has 7 out of 10
appearances. No doubt, strong for your area. But we are not discussing areas, conferences, or
conference winners here. Just individual programs. Don't get us started on Cleveland County.
For the SIXTH consecutive decade, the Shelby Golden Lions have won the State
Championship. No other high school program in the state had even been to the Title Game
in each of the previous FIVE decades. And Shelby had made it multiple times to the Title
Game in each of those decades. #1 in the state with 12 Titles in 19 appearances over the
past 46 years. Based on that, the Golden Lions HAVE AVERAGED making the Title game
40% OF THE TIME, and winning it all 25% of those 46 years ! Shelby's playoff winning
percentage, #1 in the state at 80% over that same period, indicates they average making
the Title Game EVERY PLAYOFF YEAR!
Adding to the sweetness of this Championship, this time it is with another NEW alumni
coach. An unbelievable run of sustained success by anyone's standards. No one else is
even close. Congratulations to Head Coach Lance Ware, his staff, and a great group of
players for maintaining Shelby's statewide football dominance into this current decade and
next generation.
Now might be a good time to remind all readers here that we do not create our posts in an
effort to be boastful or braggarts. We present factual information to support the definition of
The Shelby Golden Lions as The True Dynasty in North Carolina high school football. We
actually liked it better years ago, before all the social media took over, when programs were
known by reputation. But unfortunately, in today's media frenzy, if you don't speak up, the
truth can be buried by the want to be's. That is also why we quickly respond to others initial
posts, claiming positions they have not earned. We accept corrections, as you have
observed in this thread.
With that out of the way, one more comment on the season. The definition of Dynasty reads
" a family or group that maintains power for several generations". For years now, we have
observed that definition with the emphasis on "group", and not so much on "family" as the
program has been made up of many "families' and their contributions. Something has
changed a little this year and we think it is due to Coach Lance Ware. There really is a
genuine love on this team between the players and coaches and that love extends to the
community and back. It is amazing how many older and younger alumni are staying close to
the program. We have been fortunate to have that feeling for most of Shelby's history. But
this year it feels a bit deeper. Feels like more of a "family' and less of a "group".
And the definition still fits. Imagine that. Merry Christmas.
Championship. No other high school program in the state had even been to the Title Game
in each of the previous FIVE decades. And Shelby had made it multiple times to the Title
Game in each of those decades. #1 in the state with 12 Titles in 19 appearances over the
past 46 years. Based on that, the Golden Lions HAVE AVERAGED making the Title game
40% OF THE TIME, and winning it all 25% of those 46 years ! Shelby's playoff winning
percentage, #1 in the state at 80% over that same period, indicates they average making
the Title Game EVERY PLAYOFF YEAR!
Adding to the sweetness of this Championship, this time it is with another NEW alumni
coach. An unbelievable run of sustained success by anyone's standards. No one else is
even close. Congratulations to Head Coach Lance Ware, his staff, and a great group of
players for maintaining Shelby's statewide football dominance into this current decade and
next generation.
Now might be a good time to remind all readers here that we do not create our posts in an
effort to be boastful or braggarts. We present factual information to support the definition of
The Shelby Golden Lions as The True Dynasty in North Carolina high school football. We
actually liked it better years ago, before all the social media took over, when programs were
known by reputation. But unfortunately, in today's media frenzy, if you don't speak up, the
truth can be buried by the want to be's. That is also why we quickly respond to others initial
posts, claiming positions they have not earned. We accept corrections, as you have
observed in this thread.
With that out of the way, one more comment on the season. The definition of Dynasty reads
" a family or group that maintains power for several generations". For years now, we have
observed that definition with the emphasis on "group", and not so much on "family" as the
program has been made up of many "families' and their contributions. Something has
changed a little this year and we think it is due to Coach Lance Ware. There really is a
genuine love on this team between the players and coaches and that love extends to the
community and back. It is amazing how many older and younger alumni are staying close to
the program. We have been fortunate to have that feeling for most of Shelby's history. But
this year it feels a bit deeper. Feels like more of a "family' and less of a "group".
And the definition still fits. Imagine that. Merry Christmas.
You like to take statements and use them out of context or twist them to support your preferences such as taking posts that you saved from nearly a year ago.
When the WNCHSAA disbanded the schools did not go to four different classifications within the NCHSAA. They went to the 2A and 3A classes with further changes over future realignments.
Hickory was pushed out of the WNCHSAA because their enrollment grew too large and other members did not think it was fair for them to be in the WNCHSAA. Not sure if that is why Newton-Conover left the WNCHSAA before it dissolved, they were not a member at the end. Wrote that in my previous posts. Like Monroe, Morganton, Marion, Childrens Home, et al schools left over a period of time which most likely played a role in disbanding.
My 100% in agreement reply to TGT's quote, "Any team that wins the final playoff game that the higher-ups allow is a champion in my book." He did not write "state champion". To consider a DII title a state championship is a weak foundation considering only second and/or third place teams from a conference could participate.
You questioned why I used 1977-1985 to show Shelby's "struggle" but did not use 1989-1996. Simple 1976 was the last year of the WNCHSAA and 1985 was the first season the NCHSAA went to a five round / 32 team per classification playoff. 1977 through 1984 former members won two state titles both in 3A. Titles improved greatly with playoff expansion and former members dropping in classification. 1985 through 2001 (last season before all classification subdividing the former members did very well winning six 2A, five 3A, and one 1A (subdivided 1A in 2001). Hickory won a 3A title but they left the WNCHSAA in the mid to late 1960's (may be 1967-68 school year being first in NCHSAA).
You mentioned Albemarle and "what they may have become". They would have been a 3A school until the 1977 or 1981 realignment.
As far as dismissing my respect for the WNCHSAA. In the early 1990's I contact Rick Strunk and requested that the WNCHSAA champions be listed in the state championship program. Rick graduated from Newton-Conover.
Find it funny that you associate me as a Richmond fan as most of their fans consider me to be anti-Richmond.
When the WNCHSAA disbanded the schools did not go to four different classifications within the NCHSAA. They went to the 2A and 3A classes with further changes over future realignments.
Hickory was pushed out of the WNCHSAA because their enrollment grew too large and other members did not think it was fair for them to be in the WNCHSAA. Not sure if that is why Newton-Conover left the WNCHSAA before it dissolved, they were not a member at the end. Wrote that in my previous posts. Like Monroe, Morganton, Marion, Childrens Home, et al schools left over a period of time which most likely played a role in disbanding.
My 100% in agreement reply to TGT's quote, "Any team that wins the final playoff game that the higher-ups allow is a champion in my book." He did not write "state champion". To consider a DII title a state championship is a weak foundation considering only second and/or third place teams from a conference could participate.
You questioned why I used 1977-1985 to show Shelby's "struggle" but did not use 1989-1996. Simple 1976 was the last year of the WNCHSAA and 1985 was the first season the NCHSAA went to a five round / 32 team per classification playoff. 1977 through 1984 former members won two state titles both in 3A. Titles improved greatly with playoff expansion and former members dropping in classification. 1985 through 2001 (last season before all classification subdividing the former members did very well winning six 2A, five 3A, and one 1A (subdivided 1A in 2001). Hickory won a 3A title but they left the WNCHSAA in the mid to late 1960's (may be 1967-68 school year being first in NCHSAA).
You mentioned Albemarle and "what they may have become". They would have been a 3A school until the 1977 or 1981 realignment.
As far as dismissing my respect for the WNCHSAA. In the early 1990's I contact Rick Strunk and requested that the WNCHSAA champions be listed in the state championship program. Rick graduated from Newton-Conover.
Find it funny that you associate me as a Richmond fan as most of their fans consider me to be anti-Richmond.
Here's the bottom line, Chump...10 of your little 2A titles does not add up to equal a single 4A title. I can't even imagine what kind of carnage Mallard Creek would create if they played your schedule. Half of the teams you play every year would quit football altogether if they looked across the field and saw Mallard Creek standing there. If you switched places with them, I doubt very seriously that Shelby even goes .500 this season. Heck, you lost twice WITHOUT playing any big boys. If you can't even run the table on your level, then you would obviously be way out of your league sitting at the big table with us.
So here are some guidelines for you to follow in the future if you want to actually be relevant in some way...
Rule #1) Play somebody.
Rule #2) Beat somebody.
Until Shelby does either one of these on the 4A level, then you simply do not exist as a noteworthy football program in the state of North Carolina. The bottom line is that there are about 50 programs in the state that could beat your winning percentage if they played your schedules, so there's just nothing at all about Shelby's record that's all that impressive, considering who you beat to get those wins.
So here are some guidelines for you to follow in the future if you want to actually be relevant in some way...
Rule #1) Play somebody.
Rule #2) Beat somebody.
Until Shelby does either one of these on the 4A level, then you simply do not exist as a noteworthy football program in the state of North Carolina. The bottom line is that there are about 50 programs in the state that could beat your winning percentage if they played your schedules, so there's just nothing at all about Shelby's record that's all that impressive, considering who you beat to get those wins.
I haven't read the entire thread but relative to the competition they face the Shelby program doesn't have to take a backseat to anyone. If that's the argument I'm with 98!! Now if 98 is trying to infer that the Shelby teams would defeat the Richmond and Indy teams year in and year out then I must respectfully disagree. Now surely those that are arguing against 98 must concede that school size play a part in the fact that Shelby wouldn't defeat the 4A powers. If there was one high school called Cleveland County High School then I must say it would be awfully interesting.
Mallard Creek? A very good program to be sure, but how does a team with one title and a 79-27 record get ranked as NC's #4 dynasty? (FYI, MC was ranked 4th, Northern Guilford was #3)
AC Reynolds is #29 with more 4A state titles and more wins than MC. Makes me wonder about rankings for NC teams compiled by a guy in California.
Oh, and I'm not a ACR fan, just skeptical of some of these rankings.
This post was edited on 12/2 7:13 PM by jumbob
MC has reported 6 straight 10-0 seasons, been to 4 straight 4AA Western Region finals, and is the defending 4AA champ. The only teams to beat them since 2008 (their second year in existence) have been Indy ('00-'07 4AA champ), Vance (after UNC QB Marquise Williams went down with injury), Page ('11 4AA champ) and Butler ('09-'10, '12 4AA champ). They play tough schedules, and most of their wins over the past 7 seasons has been of the 40+ point variety.
I've seen worse resumes.
I've seen worse resumes.
History of Mallard Creek
2007: 1-10...First year
2008: 10-1.. Self reported..Player from VA..ineligible..Forfieted entire season
2009: 11-2...Lost to Indy in playoffs
2010: 13-1...Upset by Vance..Lost starting QB Marquise Williams to injury
2011: 13-1..Lost to State Champs Page..made it to Western Region Final
2012: 12-2..Lost to State Champs Butler...made it to Western Region Final
2013; 17-0..State Champs
2014: 13-1..Currently on their way to another Western Region Final
I could understand how a guy from California could make a honest mistake.
Mallard Creek also had 3 opening for next year, which we gave the contact information to the loud mouth guy from Shelby 2 months ago. Never heard from anyone? That just lets me know you are a Homer Fanatical Delusional Fan with no juice. The guy who runs his mouth than runs to the back of the room.....lmao!
This post was edited on 12/2 8:14 PM by nepsy7
2007: 1-10...First year
2008: 10-1.. Self reported..Player from VA..ineligible..Forfieted entire season
2009: 11-2...Lost to Indy in playoffs
2010: 13-1...Upset by Vance..Lost starting QB Marquise Williams to injury
2011: 13-1..Lost to State Champs Page..made it to Western Region Final
2012: 12-2..Lost to State Champs Butler...made it to Western Region Final
2013; 17-0..State Champs
2014: 13-1..Currently on their way to another Western Region Final
I could understand how a guy from California could make a honest mistake.
Mallard Creek also had 3 opening for next year, which we gave the contact information to the loud mouth guy from Shelby 2 months ago. Never heard from anyone? That just lets me know you are a Homer Fanatical Delusional Fan with no juice. The guy who runs his mouth than runs to the back of the room.....lmao!
This post was edited on 12/2 8:14 PM by nepsy7
I wish we could combine every craven county school (New Bern, Havelock, West Craven) And play you retarded Cleveland county(Shelby) idiots since u think your so good Im willing to bet money craven county would blow yall out by 50+
This post was edited on 12/2 9:39 PM by ItsJustWords252
This post was edited on 12/2 9:39 PM by ItsJustWords252
hokiemtc
Here's the bottom line, Chump...10 of your little 2A titles does not add up to equal a single 4A title. I can't even imagine what kind of carnage Mallard Creek would create if they played your schedule. Half of the teams you play every year would quit football altogether if they looked across the field and saw Mallard Creek standing there. If you switched places with them, I doubt very seriously that Shelby even goes .500 this season. Heck, you lost twice WITHOUT playing any big boys. If you can't even run the table on your level, then you would obviously be way out of your league sitting at the big table with us.
So here are some guidelines for you to follow in the future if you want to actually be relevant in some way...
Rule #1) Play somebody.
Rule #2) Beat somebody.
Until Shelby does either one of these on the 4A level, then you simply do not exist as a noteworthy football program in the state of North Carolina. The bottom line is that there are about 50 programs in the state that could beat your winning percentage if they played your schedules, so there's just nothing at all about Shelby's record that's all that impressive, considering who you beat to get those wins.
Btango ..whatever you said.
Hokiemtc- We don't know whether to let you keep blabbering away in your completely idiotic ranting and slobbering, or dress you down in a public debate that would have you, like btango, totally disarmed yet threatening to bite us to death. Where btango understands the reasonable logic of fair play that dictates classifications in all sports, we have decided you really don't. You are that ignorant. Btango chooses to ignore the common sense requirement of classifications as HIS EGO pushes him in the same direction as you. For him, it is all about impressing others on this and other websites with his historical knowledge and opinions regardless of how flawed or biased. It is a popularity and acceptance contest for btango, therefore he pushes the 4A big school agendas so he shows up in that bigger fan and media pond. And he just loves to drop names and his itinerary, like anyone cares. What's funny is btango still refuses to identify himself and on what authority he speaks.
The reason we keep posts from the past is that many of you have proven to be slow learners. It is like having a Shelby High Football textbook. You have to keep going back for lessons and we tire of writing the same irrefutable historical facts over and over on each post. The info is on the website, but we can't expect you to actually check the facts first now can we. And we do not start these threads/responses unless provoked. This one came from someone terming Richmond County's football program as the "gold standard upon which all NC high school programs are measured". Don't want to hear us? Don't make claims that don't stand up to scrutiny.
Now back to hokiemtc and his lesson on classification. You do understand that some schools have more students than others, correct. And reasonable logic says that a bigger student population will generally provide more athletes into that school's athletic programs. And from that larger group of athletes, a larger number of actually very talented individuals than a school with a smaller group to pick from. Team depth occurs also as a larger school will have even more average athletes to rotate in.
Each state has one or more sanctioning organizations for public schools. Each sanctioning body divides its member schools up into anywhere from two to eight size classifications based on the number of students enrolled at a school (so that schools are assured to compete against other schools of comparable size) and then each classification is further divided into conferences. NC has four classifications; 1A, 2A, 3A , and 4A. A school's size classification can change if its enrollment rises or declines over the years. In the past at the smallest schools in NC, particularly in rural communities, variations on the game using six, eight, or nine players per side instead of the traditional eleven were encountered.
In NC for the football playoffs only, each classification is subdivided (1-A, 1-AA, 2-A, 2-AA, 3-A, 3-AA, 4-A, 4-AA). Then the following steps are followed:
1) All classifications will field a full complement of 64 teams, 32 in each sub-division.
2) If ties exist at any level the tie(s) will be broken by a draw.
Once the 64 teams are determined they will be divided into groups of 32 (large and small groups of 32) based on their ADM (total student population) for the present school year. The next step is to divide each group of 32 into the 16 eastern and western most teams. This is not done by conferences but on actual geography.
So you see hokiemtc, no state, including NC, expect smaller schools to compete with larger schools. DO YOU UNDERSTAND THAT NOW or are you the only one in the world that doesn't get it? But all are treated equal as "high schools" IN THEIR RESPECTIVE DIVISIONS. The championship trophies look the same. The title games are all played at NC university stadiums and all are televised the same. The programs and records are all presented the same. No officials ever claim that the 4AA title is any more significant than the 1A title is. The media treats them different because the media understandably reports back to the bigger cities where the bigger schools generally come from. But this is not a popularity contest. The Shelby High Golden Lions don't care about popularity. We care about remaining the most successful, sustained, winning program in all NC high school football. That we earned that position is a historical and statistical fact, not opinion. Gotta be 4A to be "noteworthy" was your word? To NC fans of bigger schools maybe. Texas fans in 7A would laugh at you and your 4A rants. They would say come play them and their 5000 to 6000 student schools.
If Cleveland County consolidated into one high school like you did, it would produce a school with 4500 students that would crush Richmond County and all other current NC high schools. For now, NC has chosen to top out at around 2300 for the biggest. Richmond County just happens to be in that largest group. Rumor has it RC will be classified small 4A soon. Then maybe you can beat Scotland .oh, we forgot.
Here's the bottom line, Chump...10 of your little 2A titles does not add up to equal a single 4A title. I can't even imagine what kind of carnage Mallard Creek would create if they played your schedule. Half of the teams you play every year would quit football altogether if they looked across the field and saw Mallard Creek standing there. If you switched places with them, I doubt very seriously that Shelby even goes .500 this season. Heck, you lost twice WITHOUT playing any big boys. If you can't even run the table on your level, then you would obviously be way out of your league sitting at the big table with us.
So here are some guidelines for you to follow in the future if you want to actually be relevant in some way...
Rule #1) Play somebody.
Rule #2) Beat somebody.
Until Shelby does either one of these on the 4A level, then you simply do not exist as a noteworthy football program in the state of North Carolina. The bottom line is that there are about 50 programs in the state that could beat your winning percentage if they played your schedules, so there's just nothing at all about Shelby's record that's all that impressive, considering who you beat to get those wins.
Btango ..whatever you said.
Hokiemtc- We don't know whether to let you keep blabbering away in your completely idiotic ranting and slobbering, or dress you down in a public debate that would have you, like btango, totally disarmed yet threatening to bite us to death. Where btango understands the reasonable logic of fair play that dictates classifications in all sports, we have decided you really don't. You are that ignorant. Btango chooses to ignore the common sense requirement of classifications as HIS EGO pushes him in the same direction as you. For him, it is all about impressing others on this and other websites with his historical knowledge and opinions regardless of how flawed or biased. It is a popularity and acceptance contest for btango, therefore he pushes the 4A big school agendas so he shows up in that bigger fan and media pond. And he just loves to drop names and his itinerary, like anyone cares. What's funny is btango still refuses to identify himself and on what authority he speaks.
The reason we keep posts from the past is that many of you have proven to be slow learners. It is like having a Shelby High Football textbook. You have to keep going back for lessons and we tire of writing the same irrefutable historical facts over and over on each post. The info is on the website, but we can't expect you to actually check the facts first now can we. And we do not start these threads/responses unless provoked. This one came from someone terming Richmond County's football program as the "gold standard upon which all NC high school programs are measured". Don't want to hear us? Don't make claims that don't stand up to scrutiny.
Now back to hokiemtc and his lesson on classification. You do understand that some schools have more students than others, correct. And reasonable logic says that a bigger student population will generally provide more athletes into that school's athletic programs. And from that larger group of athletes, a larger number of actually very talented individuals than a school with a smaller group to pick from. Team depth occurs also as a larger school will have even more average athletes to rotate in.
Each state has one or more sanctioning organizations for public schools. Each sanctioning body divides its member schools up into anywhere from two to eight size classifications based on the number of students enrolled at a school (so that schools are assured to compete against other schools of comparable size) and then each classification is further divided into conferences. NC has four classifications; 1A, 2A, 3A , and 4A. A school's size classification can change if its enrollment rises or declines over the years. In the past at the smallest schools in NC, particularly in rural communities, variations on the game using six, eight, or nine players per side instead of the traditional eleven were encountered.
In NC for the football playoffs only, each classification is subdivided (1-A, 1-AA, 2-A, 2-AA, 3-A, 3-AA, 4-A, 4-AA). Then the following steps are followed:
1) All classifications will field a full complement of 64 teams, 32 in each sub-division.
2) If ties exist at any level the tie(s) will be broken by a draw.
Once the 64 teams are determined they will be divided into groups of 32 (large and small groups of 32) based on their ADM (total student population) for the present school year. The next step is to divide each group of 32 into the 16 eastern and western most teams. This is not done by conferences but on actual geography.
So you see hokiemtc, no state, including NC, expect smaller schools to compete with larger schools. DO YOU UNDERSTAND THAT NOW or are you the only one in the world that doesn't get it? But all are treated equal as "high schools" IN THEIR RESPECTIVE DIVISIONS. The championship trophies look the same. The title games are all played at NC university stadiums and all are televised the same. The programs and records are all presented the same. No officials ever claim that the 4AA title is any more significant than the 1A title is. The media treats them different because the media understandably reports back to the bigger cities where the bigger schools generally come from. But this is not a popularity contest. The Shelby High Golden Lions don't care about popularity. We care about remaining the most successful, sustained, winning program in all NC high school football. That we earned that position is a historical and statistical fact, not opinion. Gotta be 4A to be "noteworthy" was your word? To NC fans of bigger schools maybe. Texas fans in 7A would laugh at you and your 4A rants. They would say come play them and their 5000 to 6000 student schools.
If Cleveland County consolidated into one high school like you did, it would produce a school with 4500 students that would crush Richmond County and all other current NC high schools. For now, NC has chosen to top out at around 2300 for the biggest. Richmond County just happens to be in that largest group. Rumor has it RC will be classified small 4A soon. Then maybe you can beat Scotland .oh, we forgot.
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