Help Settle Discussion Between Friends

[ALLREAL]

A friend of mine have small disagreement going on. Some help will be greatly appreciated. As I sit here and think now that football has come and gone. How can schools like Shelby, Clinton, Monroe, and Reidsville (I know there are more) always be dominate. I use to think well maybe it is ADM numbers and they have more to choose from. That is not the case with the new finalize ADM numbers out. I introduced my thought to a friend of mine and his thoughts are " he thinks their area just has the better football athletes ". I disagree I think it has to do with the culture that surrounds the school and their expectations of winning. I do not think that an area has a genetic advantage. Tell me what some of you guys think.

Thanks

 

[BigBird12]

It's a mixture of both in my opinion. There's a drastic difference between the athletes in the northeast part of the state compared to the rest. Biggest difference being the big guys up front

 

[Shelby Lion]

In our case its the tradition.... almost 60 years with one losing season... A lot of success over at Shelby, and coach ware said it best in the press conference... Youth team kids want to grow up and be Golden Lions..

I Coach kids in a county youth league, we have kids that will go to Burns, Shelby and Crest in this league.... There is a lot of participation and folks genuinely interested in their growth as players, and hope that we can teach them to grow into better young men... Our league is Mighty Mites K-2, Pee Wee's 3rd-4th and Midgets 5th-6th... Then you have the Shelby City park football league as well... We start them very young and they grow into the Shelby/Crest/Burns players.... Feeder programs are huge and all those names above I bet all have great feeder programs/youth leagues.. Kings Mountain I believe has a league down in that area as well...

It doesn't hurt also to have great athletes for the most part...

Just my take

 

[Freshman-poster]

I told a friend of mine that the big difference to me that seperate Shelby and Crest kids is their offseason dedication. In the summer, schools have their workout and weightlifting mainly in the mornings, but if you go to the shelby YMCA , it's full of crest and shelby players lifting and running togther on top of what was done earlier in the day at school.
Kings mountain has two youth football leagues. One is based on age and weight (KM optimist) and the other is age separated (KM elite). The elite plays teams from charlotte to rock hill to Spartanburg and in between. I believe they had 3 of the four teams finish as runner up to go nationals and and the fourth team (11-12 year olds) won the regionals and was eldigble to go to nationals.
THANK YOU TO ALL YOUTH FOOTBALL COACHES.

 

[shawn28364]

Having a good coach doesn't hurt either.

 

[AlwaysAWolf]

In our case its the tradition.... almost 60 years with one losing season... A lot of success over at Shelby, and coach ware said it best in the press conference... Youth team kids want to grow up and be Golden Lions..

I Coach kids in a county youth league, we have kids that will go to Burns, Shelby and Crest in this league.... There is a lot of participation and folks genuinely interested in their growth as players, and hope that we can teach them to grow into better young men... Our league is Mighty Mites K-2, Pee Wee's 3rd-4th and Midgets 5th-6th... Then you have the Shelby City park football league as well... We start them very young and they grow into the Shelby/Crest/Burns players.... Feeder programs are huge and all those names above I bet all have great feeder programs/youth leagues.. Kings Mountain I believe has a league down in that area as well...

It doesn't hurt also to have great athletes for the most part...

Just my take

Agreed. I give tradition the edge...wanting to grow up to be Golden Lions, Chargers, Red Raiders, Wolves, Dark Horses, Bulldogs, etc... That puts kids in the weight room. That inspires even the less-athletic. That makes it possible to have feeder programs. That makes kids want to learn the "Red Bone" at an early age. That attracts and keeps good coaches.

And great athletes always help.

My 2c

 

[ALLREAL]

So most agree it is the culture that surrounds the school. Not so much the athletes that are in the area?

 

[NCHSFootballFan15]

I agree that it is likely a mixture of both. However, I do find it incredibly hard to believe that a true 2a school such as Shelby can dress 65 athletes and have so many stud athletes. There are 2aa and even 3a schools that may not dress a player over 6'0 250+ lbs. It seems like Shelby has a 2 deep of guys that size on each line. There is enough speculation as to how they are able to have such stacked teams year in and year out, but I'll leave that to the message board experts to figure out.

 

[bigtime_87]

I have been involved in city schools and county schools at various levels and having athletes makes a big difference but it is not always the deciding factor. Administrative, parental, and community support have lots to do with it. Culture of winning is also very important. Some of these schools expect to win, hire top notch coaches and support them. We have all seen some programs rise from the ashes, but the question is how long can they stay at the top. In many of these circumstances it is simply a good coach that has a 3-4 year run of athletic, tough kids that can play the game.

 

[AlwaysAWolf]

true and true...

another question regarding the genetics of it all...some programs feature giant kids, year after year...'big corn-fed kids" Some, like us...tend to always be the smaller team on the field. Is it really that way, or just perception. How can kids grow bigger, just up the road or across the river?

Shelby - Always seems to have size and speed. But then again, they always have all of the above factors covered as well...and have for ALOT of years. Maybe its in the water. Maybe its geographical.

I remember a poster a couple of years ago who floated the idea that teams named after TOWNS (Tarboro, Salisbury, Clinton, Thomasville, Lincolnton, Shelby, et al...) rather than AREAS (West Caldwell, South Iredell, et al) or OTHER things...tend to have all of these factors...ostensibly because of history/culture of success. I like the idea, but there are obvious exceptions. Crest, Independence...
I think he cited town pride as a factor...

 

['98 State Champion]

I agree that it is likely a mixture of both. However, I do find it incredibly hard to believe that a true 2a school such as Shelby can dress 65 athletes and have so many stud athletes. There are 2aa and even 3a schools that may not dress a player over 6'0 250+ lbs. It seems like Shelby has a 2 deep of guys that size on each line. There is enough speculation as to how they are able to have such stacked teams year in and year out, but I'll leave that to the message board experts to figure out.

Here we go again.....damn....sore losers I guess.

It's fun sitting around at Thursday night supper club with the current players hearing them talk about when they played together and against each other in elementary school in the Shelby City Park league. But I guess they are making all that up since they are evidently recruited in from other counties (Tom Brown) and must have grown up somewhere else. Amazing how they all remember the same plays and the same hits and who won the championship and which teams sucked. I guess someone gives them a good story from 6-7 years earlier.

We've been dominating since the 60s.....I guess we have mastered bringing in outside kids for that long....smh

 

['98 State Champion]

Shelby, Crest, Gaffney....a triangle of excellence for decades....

 

[LTown Wolves]

I've seen teams like Shelby and Crest and they are huge, from the lines to the receiver and DB positions both of those teams were bigger than Lincolnton in just about every position. Then you go watch South Point and they are well below average size and still win anywhere between 10 and 15 games a season. I think Shelby and Crest win because they have bigger and faster athletes on the field and even more of them on the sideline, and I think SP wins because they run a great system and those kids run it from the time they are 10 years old or even younger. So it's definitely a combination of both. Lincolnton always has a lot of speed, but not much size. So here, it's speed combined with good coaching and a winning mentality. But we're obviously not as dominant as Shelby. Easy Lincoln has also created a great winning culture over the past decade or so, and you couple that with a pair of Surratts, and look out. Interesting thing to see there is if there will be any drop off without Chazz.

 

[AlwaysAWolf]

Here we go again.....damn....sore losers I guess.

It's fun sitting around at Thursday night supper club with the current players hearing them talk about when they played together and against each other in elementary school in the Shelby City Park league. But I guess they are making all that up since they are evidently recruited in from other counties (Tom Brown) and must have grown up somewhere else. Amazing how they all remember the same plays and the same hits and who won the championship and which teams sucked. I guess someone gives them a good story from 6-7 years earlier.

We've been dominating since the 60s.....I guess we have mastered bringing in outside kids for that long....smh

Sorry...I think I missed the depth of the insinuation from the first poster, there. I hear people say that about Crest, Shelby...even Burns a couple of years ago. But I can't fathom where all those players are coming from, if all of the transfer rumors could even possibly be true. But when 3 or 4 out of 5 schools are stacked in one County...you must give credence to the probability that the talent is home-grown and nurtured.

 

[BigBird12]

Perfect example is Plymouth. State champs in 07, 12, and now 15. Easily could've won the previous two years. I think it's the culture. Northeastern is slowly getting there. Don't understand why they have so many coaches though

 

[Chopper747]

Would Shelby consider a petition to play 3A after realignment? I read HPA did this a few decades ago if I'm not mistaken.

 

[Godevilsgo]

I think for Cleveland County and places like Lincolnton it has some to do with genetics and family that never leave their area where they were raised. So the pool of kids who play and parents who expect them to play continues. That was once a case with Newton-Conover but much less so now that the school academics have reached new levels. Now those generations move off to more enticing metro areas where job opportunities exist. Not many years that the name Littlejohn is not on a Lincolnton roster.

 

[swett2victory]

Maybe a lot of community support comes in very handy....(fundraisers, ect....)

 

[huntman98]

This discussion reminds me of the stories I used to hear about Jack Holley, (South Columbus/Wallace Rose Hill). They said that if there were farm boys that did not play because of working on the farm that he would go to the parents and assure them that they would be able to do both, he would explain that they would be better on the farm because of the work ethic they would develop at football practice. My grand kids asked me this summer if we had weightlifting when I played? My response was yep, like loading fertilizer in the hoppers, cutting wood with a cross saw. running to the back of the field, cropping, hanging tobacco, baling hay.

 

[65Lion]

In my opinion the closer the children were to a town the better head start they had. Shelby had a great feeder program for years before others did. For instance, I started playing in the second grade in elementary school in 1955. I think Kings Mountain was the same way. As for Crest and Burns they didn't have a feeder system or one that was very organized for many years. When they finally got this system into place they started winning. It makes a big difference when they get to high school. The coaches can concentrate on things other than basic blocking and tackling. Shelby has not always had a big line either. My son was starting center in 1996 and was 5'4" and 150 pounds. As the sign said over the locker room door....." The tradition Continues".

 

[sasha_nc]

Would Shelby consider a petition to play 3A after realignment? I read HPA did this a few decades ago if I'm not mistaken.

Shelby's 2015 ADM was 840; they would have to find about 200 students a year for such a petition of even make sense. SP has 1021 students and will be the 2nd largest 2A in the next alignment.

 

[ebhsfan]

It's not about the X's and the O's, it's about the Jimmy's and the Joe's. The better athletes you have, the better chance you have of winning. Urban areas will have substantial amount of athletes conglomerated in a small area compared to suburban/rural areas, where the athletes may go to different schools within that specific county. The next question is does being a city school benefit more than being in a county school system? What are advantages of being in a City school system vs County? I may be mistaken but the 4 teams you referenced are all City schools. Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[Tootall4yall]

Would Shelby consider a petition to play 3A after realignment? I read HPA did this a few decades ago if I'm not mistaken.

HP Andrews has always been borderline 2A/3Aas far as enrollment hut we played up to 4A until the state mandated schools had to play as they were classified. The Andrews program has traditionally been known for producing quality athletes, and the true secret has always been an emphasis on multi sport athletes. Nearly everyone on the football team played at least one other sport, and they benefitted from year round competition. Our track teams produce speed, wrestling toughness and strength, and basketball explosiveness and athleticism. We have won multiple state titles in each of these sports because of the concept of the total athlete vs the specialist.

 

[GoNtheDistance]

as shared above. all of these programs have 3 qualities that make you elite. In this order...

Talent, Coaching, and Consistency/Tradition.

Without talent, I don't care who your coach is or how consistent his game plan or message is. If you have talent and can get a good coach to stick around, you start to get the snowball affect with consistency/tradition. Tradition breeds interest. Interest then manifests itself with hard work, commitment and dedication. Put all this together and you have teams and programs that you will usually find yourself on the losing end to after a long Friday night.