American Legion Baseball Cherryville @ Caldwell County, Last Saturday= Protest

Discussion in 'Open Sports Discussion & Resources Forum' started by Lincolnton, Jun 6, 2017.

  1. Lincolnton

    Lincolnton Well-Known Member
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    If a coach visits the mound more than once in an inning must the coach remove the pitcher ?
    I always thought the answer was yes but the Caldwell Post 29 coach must have thought otherwise. Frankly, I'm not sure. Does anyone know ? I always thought of Caldwell as being masters of the rulebook so I wonder what might happen.

    These two programs don't like each other and this goes way back. Heck, I remember the lightning game in 2003. Cherryville versus Caldwell deep in the playoffs. Caldwell has either a two to none or three to none lead in the best four out of seven series, and they're playing at Cherryville, who has a big lead on Caldwell early in that particular game. This huge cloud comes up and the lightning is keen. It wasn't sheet lightning it was the kind with bolts where you can almost smell the ozone.

    Cherryville wants to make it through the fifth inning to preserve the win. Caldwell wants to stall in hopes of a rainout because they're way behind. Caldwell is at bat and they refuse to send their batter to the plate claiming the metallic bat was like a lightning rod. The umpire motions to the Cherryville pitcher to begin. The pitcher rifles the ball to the catcher and this is without a batter. The umpire growls strike one and the Caldwell batter comes up to the plate.
    The cloud went around and it hardly rained at all. Cherryville would go on to win the game, the series, the state, the regional and would fall to Rochester Minnesota in the championship game of the legion world series played in Bartlesville,Oklahoma.

    Maybe it's just me but it seems like during the hottest summers is when these two teams have these highly contested, highly contentious games. Maybe this is going to be one of them. They're fun.

    Here is a link to the article in the Lincolnton paper.

    http://www.lincolntimesnews.com/2017/06/05/post-100-dominant-caldwell-game-played-protest/
     
  2. Sportsnut17

    Sportsnut17 Moderator
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    Yes they play American League rules. 2 visits per inning, must remove him on second trip. He probably got HS visits confused, happens quite often.

    Nice story otherwise, glad to see you back posting.
     
  3. Lincolnton

    Lincolnton Well-Known Member
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    Sportsnut17, thanks, my friend. I had meant to post this with other American Legion Baseball comments but I don't know how to get it there. can you advise. Thanks.
     
  4. Sportsnut17

    Sportsnut17 Moderator
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    I moved it to AL. When you start a new thread, there is space that say prefix, click on that and it opens a drop down box to select your category that you wish to post in. It is a little tricky, I sure wish there had been someway that Ms. Deana could have kept the AL heading on the front, but I realize that this is a short season of discussion and limited participation.
     
  5. Lincolnton

    Lincolnton Well-Known Member
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    Thanks for the help Sportsnut.
     
  6. Lincolnton

    Lincolnton Well-Known Member
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    By the way, if you noticed in the Lincoln Times-News article just below the Caldwell-Cherryville article, there is another article about Cherryville beating Asheville something like 16-3 in seven innings. I believe that game was played last Friday night, at T.C. Roberson High School. If Asheville is pulling players from T.C.Roberson, then Asheville very well could have been playing without some of their better players as T.C. was at the state 4A championship playing against New Hanover. I believe Roberson was the only western team to win a high school championship in baseball, this year. I'm thinking that from here on, Asheville will be harder to beat with the return of players who might have been on Roberson's team.
     
    6 Lincolnton, Jun 7, 2017
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2017
  7. Linkman

    Linkman Well-Known Member
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    I understand Asheville had 3 or 4 players join them from the State Champion T.C. Roberson team so that should improve the legion team.

    My comments on the Cherryville/Caldwell County protested game....First of all it's absolutely mind bogging to me that two umpires working an American Legion baseball game don't know the visit to the mound rules. On the field everyone knows American Legion baseball uses MLB American League rules. The current visit to the mound rules have been in effect in the MLB for a very long time and are very clearly stated in the rule book. Those two umpires should be fired.

    Caldwell County was given a gift due to the incompetence of the umps. With Cherryville pounding every Caldwell pitcher they used it was one of those games that Caldwell was not going to win. However, Caldwell in reality screwed up that gift (even though they are being allowed to get away with it) by not realizing they needed to file the protest before another pitch was thrown. Since they did not prior to the next pitch being throw the protest should have been disallowed...but it wasn't. That brings me to my third point. Due to the politics in Area IV baseball you can be assured that whenever there is a protest involving Cherryville Post 100 the ruling will not result in a favorable ruling for Cherryville. That's OK. Cherryville has been living with and striving with that reality and history for a long time. Cherryville and all their fans will be ready when the Caldwell comes to Cherryville to finish the game with Cherryville leading 6-2 still batting in the 5th.
     
    7 Linkman, Jun 7, 2017
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2017
  8. Sportsnut17

    Sportsnut17 Moderator
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    I have been waiting for you to post,I knew it wouldn't be long since Legion is in full swing.

    Thanks for posting.
     
  9. Lincolnton

    Lincolnton Well-Known Member
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    Linkman, was Caldwell's protest upheld ? You're so correct about Cherryville existing in an adverse environment.
     
  10. Linkman

    Linkman Well-Known Member
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    Yes, the protest was upheld. The game will be resumed in the top of the 5th with Cherryville leading 6-2, two outs, runners on 2nd and 3rd. It will be played at Cherryville on June 27th followed by the game that was regularly scheduled with Caldwell on that date.
     
  11. Lincolnton

    Lincolnton Well-Known Member
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    I just read in the Lincoln Times-News, about Caldwell County's protest being upheld and it looks like at least for one part of it Coach Day from Caldwell County is right, or to the extent that I understand it. Here is what appears to have happened:

    It is the fifth inning--The Caldwell coach goes out to talk to his pitcher--He leaves the pitcher in--The coach goes back to the mound , still in the fifth inning and pulls this pitcher and puts in a new pitcher--:Later, still in the fifth inning the Caldwell coach goes back to the mound to talk to this pitcher but leaves him in--The umpire says you cannot leave this pitcher in because you are only allowed one free visit to the mound per inning and you used it up when you went to the mound the first time with the first pitcher, so you must pull this second pitcher, too--The Caldwell coach declares his protest.
    If I am reading this right a coach gets one free visit to the mound PER PITCHER.

    The other part of this dispute is Cherryville saying the rules state a protest must be declared when the breach happens and before the next pitch is thrown and that Caldwell did not protest at that time, therefore the game should be left as is.
    The commissioner upheld the protest.
    I can see why Linkman is aggravated with the umpires and the situation.

    Here is the later article from the Lincoln Times-News:
    http://www.lincolntimesnews.com/2017/06/07/protest-upheld-cherryville-caldwell-game/
     
    11 Lincolnton, Jun 8, 2017
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2017
  12. Linkman

    Linkman Well-Known Member
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    Cherryville won their 9th straight game last night (well actually 8 since we can't count the Caldwell game yet) defeating Hickory 5-4 in 10 innings. They lost the first game of the season against Mint Hill in the front end of a doubleheader and haven't lost since. They are playing well this year rebounding from last year when they had a losing record for the first time in a long time. They are getting solid pitching, good defense, and hitting up and down the line up. They have a young team...only have two college players.
     
  13. Lincolnton

    Lincolnton Well-Known Member
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    Thanks, Linkman for the Info. I am off June 27th. I will try and be there. Always enjoyed watching these two
    teams play.

    Also, Linkman, thanks for the assessment of this years team. I haven't seen them play, yet, but I have seen these scores and wondered if they really have that much offense.
     
  14. west boy

    west boy Well-Known Member
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    Something similar happened in the 2007 Area III Finals between Rowan and Randolph County. This was an extremely tense series between two evenly matched teams. Ronnie Pugh, who is still known for his frequent mound visits, (his form of "stall ball") visited the mound twice in one inning. Rowan was expecting him to obviously pull the pitcher since it was his second mound visit in the same inning. Needless to say, he did not pull that pitcher, Rowan of course argued that he had to pull the pitcher, fans are yelling from the stands, and in the end, Randolph did not have to pull their pitcher and went on to win that series in 7 games. I'm not sure if the umpire just didn't keep track of the mound visits, or he wasn't aware of the rule, but it's happened before, amazingly. Legion baseball is always full of fiascoes.
     
  15. Linkman

    Linkman Well-Known Member
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    The suspended game will begin at 6:00 on the 27th rather than 7:00.
     
  16. west boy

    west boy Well-Known Member
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    Keep us posted. I always love to hear about Cherryville/Caldwell drama.
     
  17. Lincolnton

    Lincolnton Well-Known Member
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    West Boy, does Rowan have that kind of, well, for lack of a better word, rivalry, with any of the other teams. You had mentioned Asheboro, and I know that there have been many hard fought games between these two Area III strong men. I got a feeling the Cherryville-Caldwell relationship is somewhat unique.
     
    17 Lincolnton, Jun 9, 2017
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2017
  18. Lincolnton

    Lincolnton Well-Known Member
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    Nm
     
    18 Lincolnton, Jun 9, 2017
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2017
  19. west boy

    west boy Well-Known Member
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    Rowan and Kernersville used to be pretty heavy rivals back in the 90s. Here recently, it's developed a rivalry with Randolph County because they are always competing for state tournament berths. More locally, maybe Concord or the former South(ern) Rowan team. But nothing really to compare to Cherryville/Caldwell. I've talked to both Cherryville and Caldwell folks and those two simply hate each other. No other way around it.
     
  20. BleedBurnsBlue

    BleedBurnsBlue Well-Known Member
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    Cherryville and Shelby isn't too friendly either.
     
  21. west boy

    west boy Well-Known Member
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    What's the common denominator here? lol
     
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  22. Linkman

    Linkman Well-Known Member
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    The common denominator is the jealously of Cherryville's and coach Bobby Reynolds' Area IV success by the other two teams not named Cherryville....12 Area IV titles, 5 state championships, 2 SE Region championships, twice World Series runner ups.

    The Caldwell/Cherryville hatred developed during the Bobby Reynolds' coaching era as Caldwell through the years usually had a hard time defeating Cherryville in the play offs even the years when Caldwell had better talent and seemingly the better team. There have also been a good many controversial situations in the games between the two teams and both fan bases are vocal.

    As far as Shelby I don't seen the same type of heated rivalry. However, I do know that Shelby's coach Grayson will not play Cherryville in the regular season now that the teams are in different divisions despite coach Reynolds' trying to schedule games with Shelby. I don't understand it since Cherryville/Shelby games always draw a lot of fans.
     
    22 Linkman, Jun 14, 2017
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2017
  23. BleedBurnsBlue

    BleedBurnsBlue Well-Known Member
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    If you're talking about the total history of Shelby and Cherryville, Shelby has just as many, if not more championships than Cherryville. Recently, Cherryville has been better for sure. Grayson and Bobby Dale used to hate each other. However, the last 5-10 years they have actually become good friends. As far as them not scheduling each other, I can't answer because I don't know.
     
  24. Linkman

    Linkman Well-Known Member
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  25. Linkman

    Linkman Well-Known Member
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    Shelby Post 82 has 7 state championships, the same number as Cherryville. Five of those were in the 1940s and 1950s. They actually won the national championship in 1951. That is rich history but it's old history.

    In the past 20 years Shelby has won 3 Area IV titles, 2 state titles, and no SE region titles. Caldwell County has four state titles in their history but only one in the past 20 years. Cherryville Post 100 under Reynolds as coach in that same 20 year period has won 12 Area IV titles, 5 state titles, 2 SE region titles, and twice finished runner up for the national title. That is the reason there is dislike of Cherryville Post 100 by Shelby and Caldwell. It also probably doesn't set well with Shelby HS fans that in the same period they have watched Reynolds win 6 state baseball HS titles at East Rutherford while Shelby in the same conference haven't won anything.
     
  26. BleedBurnsBlue

    BleedBurnsBlue Well-Known Member
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    No argument here. Although, I don't think the high schools play any part in it (my opinion). I think Bobby Dale is one of the best "in game" coaches I've seen. He gets the most out of his players than anyone around. I think Grayson develops players better. That's not a slight to Bobby. I've seen Grayson take players that didn't get playing time in high school and turn them into a very good college player.
     
  27. west boy

    west boy Well-Known Member
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    I was mostly joking. Rowan had a season end in 2006 because an "anonymous" source waited until the playoffs began, and revealed that one of the Rowan players actually lived closer to another base school and he had not been granted a release. We still to this day do not know who that person was and probably never will, but some people will do things like that to keep the strong/dominant legion programs like Rowan/Cherryville from competing. I'm sure people get tired of the same legion programs winning all the time, but these programs do things the right way, have the talent year in and year out, the coaching, and the support. Dedicated legion programs are hard to come by, and I think mostly programs like Rowan or Cherryville are respected, but you're always going to have the people that will do underhanded things.
     
  28. Linkman

    Linkman Well-Known Member
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    Well stated, West Boy.
    By the way, can you provide an update on Area III. Just curious what teams besides Rowan County are doing well so far this year.
     
  29. Sportsnut17

    Sportsnut17 Moderator
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    Hope this helps: I will try to start posting scores and updates regularly.


    NORTH DIVISION W L GB W L T
    Randolph County Post 45 3 0 10 6 0
    Winston-Salem Post 55 3 0 4 3 0
    Eastern Randolph Post 81 2 0 1/2 6 3 0
    Davidson County Post 8 2 2 1 1/2 5 5 0
    Kernersville Post 36 1 2 2 2 4 0
    High Point Post 87 0 3 3 4 8 0
    Greensboro Post 53 0 4 3 1/2 2 6 0



    SOUTH DIVISION W L GB W L T
    Concord Post 51 2 0 8 1 1
    Rowan County Post 342 1 0 1/2 11 0 0
    Stanly County Post 76 1 1 1 7 6 0
    Mooresville Post 66 2 2 1 3 6 0
    Kannapolis Post 115 0 1 1 1/2 0 6 0
    Mocksville-Davie Post 54 0 2 2 5 7
     
  30. Linkman

    Linkman Well-Known Member
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  31. Linkman

    Linkman Well-Known Member
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    With the protested game being resumed in the 5th inning this Tuesday, I know the game starts back with the same players, lineups, etc. Just wondering about the umpires...does the game have to start back with the same umpires (the ones they screwed everything up). If it does the Cherryville fans will ready to ride them all night.

    Cherryville ran into another controversy this week end involving an umpire who came up with his own interpretation that went against Cherryville. The situation happened early in the Burke County game Friday night following the completion of a play where a Cherryville player completed his bat hitting the ball off the end of the bat, grounding out. The ump picked up the bat and tapped the handle on the ground and then informed Coach Reynolds that since the bat vibrated when he tapped it on the ground, it could break and therefore was not safe and could no longer be used in the game. So, he threw the bat out of the game not because it was illegal, (the bat was completely legal), but because he deemed it unsafe to use. It just so happened to be a bat that several of the Cherryville players were using...very recognizable due to its bright yellow color. With the composition of the bats being used now, many of them will vibrate if you tap the handle on the ground. Another ridiculous ruling by an umpire who couldn't be convinced otherwise despite Coach Reynolds' attempts. Cherryville played the game under protest. Since Cherryville ended up winning the game the protest was dropped.
     

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