State Finals Scores

[NCprepbball]

The same could be said of the 2a girls this year. Farmville Cent demolished McMichael by 40 in the eastern regional final. The east did not nearly have the competition that the west side did.
Shelby girls had some tough games in MTn Heritage, Salisbury and W Stokes.

Robbinsville, Mitchell, Cherokee, E Surry, Bishop, N Rowan, Mt Airy, Rosman could’ve all beaten Princeton.

 

[No Mercy]

This year was even weaker because of all the kids who are not playing and the pandemic. The poorer schools have been hurt badly by grades, jobs, and lack of transportation. That is one advantage Princeton had, they didnt deal with this very much.

 

[Mhsneer]

I agree that charters have pushed a lot of good "traditional school" teams out of 1A, but if we're talking girls side, the east wasn't winning titles even before that. By my count, the east has won 3 in the last 35 years (Pamlico in '19, Union in '98, and Lakewood in '94...and a 4th if you count the 2020 Murphy/Weldon co-champ situation). I think that what has replaced the the larger traditional schools has made 1A boys tougher while watering down 1A girls.

No but bishop robbed girls and boys teams from wnc many years. So did wsp

 

[ObserveAndReport]

No but bishop robbed girls and girls teams from wnc many years. So did wsp

I'll agree on that. But Bishop isn't a charter, and neither is WSP, and the wisdom of allowing one specific type of private school is kind of a separate but related issue, as is the issue of how to classify schools from districts like WSFCS that have open enrollment. Actual charter schools have been, with a few exceptions, pretty bad on the girls side but have taken a lot of excitement/interest out of 1A basketball on the boys side, in my opinion.

 

[Dadof23]

The boys arent tougher. there are a few good teams. But overall they have declined. The depth is no longer there

I personally think 1A basketball (boys) is some of the best basketball in the state. We can argue about the charter situation all you want, they are just more options for kids to choose from these days, but 1A basketball has been good for quite some time now. Mount Airy's boy's team this year was very, very good and could/would beat a lot of 4A and 3A schools. LIncoln Charter's team played a lot of 4A teams in fall basketball and beat most of them. Mitchell, for a mountain team, was solid this year and played tough. Throw in Henderson Collegiate, North Stanley, Hayesville, East Carteret, Chatham Central, Bishop....This was a good 1A field this year. If Mount Airy played 2A, they would have played Farmville Central in the championship. They, along with others, would have demolished North Lincoln and some of the other top 2A teams. Lincoln Charter beat Weddington in Fall League in Charlotte twice this year and lost to 4A Audrey Kale in sudden-death overtime. 1A was really good and has been, regardless of the "traditional" thinking...

 

[ObserveAndReport]

I personally think 1A basketball (boys) is some of the best basketball in the state. We can argue about the charter situation all you want, they are just more options for kids to choose from these days, but 1A basketball has been good for quite some time now. Mount Airy's boy's team this year was very, very good and could/would beat a lot of 4A and 3A schools. LIncoln Charter's team played a lot of 4A teams in fall basketball and beat most of them. Mitchell, for a mountain team, was solid this year and played tough. Throw in Henderson Collegiate, North Stanley, Hayesville, East Carteret, Chatham Central, Bishop....This was a good 1A field this year. If Mount Airy played 2A, they would have played Farmville Central in the championship. They, along with others, would have demolished North Lincoln and some of the other top 2A teams. Lincoln Charter beat Weddington in Fall League in Charlotte twice this year and lost to 4A Audrey Kale in sudden-death overtime. 1A was really good and has been, regardless of the "traditional" thinking...

I agree with you that the top teams in 1A are on par with most of the top teams in higher divisions right now, but I think we have philosophical differences as to what that means. I guess where you see it as a great thing that 1A ball is coming up in the world, I tend to think dividing schools isn't just done for the fun of the alignment process, and it defeats the purpose if it's tougher to win the 1A West than the 2A West, as you say it is. And I think it means that the way we classify schools is broken if it isn't serving its purpose of equitably dividing the schools. I also don't quite understand why the open enrollment schools at the top want to be there, either. It would seem to do their kids more good not to be beating teams by 50 through the whole regular season.

 

[Mhsneer]

I'll agree on that. But Bishop isn't a charter, and neither is WSP, and the wisdom of allowing one specific type of private school is kind of a separate but related issue, as is the issue of how to classify schools from districts like WSFCS that have open enrollment. Actual charter schools have been, with a few exceptions, pretty bad on the girls side but have taken a lot of excitement/interest out of 1A basketball on the boys side, in my opinion.

if you can recruit kids and admit them to your school without them living in your district then you should have your own league or play in 4a

 

[Dadof23]

I agree with you that the top teams in 1A are on par with most of the top teams in higher divisions right now, but I think we have philosophical differences as to what that means. I guess where you see it as a great thing that 1A ball is coming up in the world, I tend to think dividing schools isn't just done for the fun of the alignment process, and it defeats the purpose if it's tougher to win the 1A West than the 2A West, as you say it is. And I think it means that the way we classify schools is broken if it isn't serving its purpose of equitably dividing the schools. I also don't quite understand why the open enrollment schools at the top want to be there, either. It would seem to do their kids more good not to be beating teams by 50 through the whole regular season.

Good, quality "open enrollment" teams don't want to be in 1A, but that is not their issue. They can't control that at all. They play who they have to play but their non-conference, which was taken this year, allows for that opportunity. I know WS Prep always plays a really tough non-conference schedule as does Lincoln Charter. That being said, I agree that some charters should be able to play up if they want to but for the majority, charters stink in most sports so that serves no point. It is a broken system that NCHSAA leaders do not want to touch at all. Not sure if they will ever fix the problem but I do pull for the "traditional" smaller schools to do well. But I sent 2 kids to a charter and I know first hand, academically and athletically, how they prepared those two for college and beyond. So, I'm a little more open-minded toward Charters that do it the correct way. I grew up in a small-town high school that football and basketball were the only reasons for existence. Friday nights were unbelievable and basketball nights in the conference we were in were full at the start of girl's games. As much as I hated to see it dwindle down, the market opened up for bigger and better opportunities. Simple as that.

 

[ObserveAndReport]

That being said, I agree that some charters should be able to play up if they want to but for the majority, charters stink in most sports so that serves no point. It is a broken system that NCHSAA leaders do not want to touch at all. Not sure if they will ever fix the problem but I do pull for the "traditional" smaller schools to do well. But I sent 2 kids to a charter and I know first hand, academically and athletically, how they prepared those two for college and beyond.

As much as I hated to see it dwindle down, the market opened up for bigger and better opportunities. Simple as that.

I think the horse is out of the barn on debating the merits of school choice as a public policy, at least in N.C., but I think if the basis of the policy is for there to be more of a free market for public education, then it at least makes sense when classifying schools to ask "how big is this school's market?" I do think the NCHSAA has tried to address the broken system with the new factors it added to ADM numbers this year. They aren't perfect, but it is worth noting that 3 of the last 4 charters standing in the 1A West this year will be going 2A under the new metrics. But I still think it doesn't go far enough if it stops short of accounting for the population base that a school can draw from.

I'm not one of the people who think all charter schools should automatically get bumped up. There's a huge difference between what KIPP or Bear Grass Charter can pull from and what a charter school in Charlotte can pull from. The charter school in Murphy is starting a high school, and it will have a cap that is under 100 students in a rural area--if they choose to have sports it would probably be unfair for them to be in anything but 1A. But if NC is now committing to a market-based approach to public education, then I think NCHSAA at some point needs to acknowledge and account for the fact that not all "markets" are the same.

 

[No Mercy]

We were actually talking about the east of 1a being weaker, but overall 1a IS down. Just not as much in the west. But WSP falling off is big. Losing Thomasville etc didnt hep, but that hasnt been as crippling as the big chunk of hoops powers that have gone 2a in the east.

Dont even get me started on the charter thing. Im not impressed at all by what Wilson prep did. Nor WSP. Whoopdy doo. The advanteges are too great. Im not neccesarily knocking them (tho the idea that noone is recruiting is so naive as to be funny), but even without recruiting, the differences are just too great.

if you get to/have to advertise for students, I shouldnt be playing you if im public. Saying "you can get the word out to get students to come, but you cant recruit athletes" is too fine a line for most people, even honest ones, to walk.

 

[CP16]

Wilson Prep had 9 seniors on this years team. Six of them have transferred in under the new staff in the last two years. Fike, Beddigfield, Bunn, CB Aycock, had one from Princeton but that got shut down. No "tradtional" school in the East is allowed to do this. As some have said he was Rocky Mount Prep, then Voyager, then and still some Henderson, now Wilson. Small towns are losing hope!

 

[No Mercy]

exactly

 

[No Mercy]

Another thing- i always see this, "WSP is not a charter'. True.

On the positive, they are governed by a county school system, so there are some checks and balances HOWEVER...

Most Magnet schools have a set attendance district and then a smaller per centage of the school is in the magnet program. WSP doesnt have a set district. They are a pure magnet. This makes it much easier for them to gain advantege. It keeps them small, so they can stay 1A. they draw from a huge area.

Magnets like say, Enloe, have only a small part of their population that are magnet. Sure, if kids want to move they can use that to do so, but not to the extent they can at WSP.

I would put any Pure magnet in the same catagory as acharter or parochial school.

 

[ObserveAndReport]

Another thing- i always see this, "WSP is not a charter'. True.

On the positive, they are governed by a county school system, so there are some checks and balances HOWEVER...

Most Magnet schools have a set attendance district and then a smaller per centage of the school is in the magnet program. WSP doesnt have a set district. They are a pure magnet. This makes it much easier for them to gain advantege. It keeps them small, so they can stay 1A. they draw from a huge area.

Magnets like say, Enloe, have only a small part of their population that are magnet. Sure, if kids want to move they can use that to do so, but not to the extent they can at WSP.

I would put any Pure magnet in the same catagory as acharter or parochial school.

I agree. But also, every school in Forsyth County Schools is open to any kid in the county, and several of them have also played 1A. That's why it isn't as simple as saying "give charters their own division," because you still have open enrollment "traditional" schools, you still have magnet schools with varying attendance policies, etc. So there has to be some metric that isn't just enrollment, but enrollment in light of how many kids that could be enrolled there. For instance, if you had a magnet school that had 500 zoned kids and 200 in a magnet program, the 500 in the zone wouldn't be multiplied, but the 200 in the magnet program would have a multiplier based on the population that could attend that program. If you had a "traditional" school of 600 kids, but it was in a county with open enrollment (like when Walkertown was in 1A a few years ago) it would get a multiplier.

 

[No Mercy]

The difference between them though, is they have a base area and they have checks and balances within their county system. We will never stop completely the issues, but the gap between them and what is going on with the charters etc is huge. There are degrees of everything.

WSP is unusual in that it is a county school. having no set district though, is big.
of course i think theyll recede a little now with Gould leaving but thats irrelevant.
theyre just a completely different type of school

They need to put these charters in their own conferences as much as possible, and their own playifff bracket. They shouldnt even be used in the numbers.

I know that wont fly. But they need to be moved up. Of course thats not fair to the schools in higher classes.

If your school advertises for kids, i shouldnt be playing you. I watched some of Wilson Preps games in the playoffs. On the screen it said "Wilson prep" in the top left corner. In the bottom right it said "100% graduation rate". Scrolling along the bottom it said "enroll now before March 15"

If Beddingfield and Hunt cant advertise, they shouldnt be playing a school that can. Recruiting students yet magically not using athletics to recruit them is a line noone can walk.

 

[ObserveAndReport]

The difference between them though, is they have a base area and they have checks and balances within their county system. We will never stop completely the issues, but the gap between them and what is going on with the charters etc is huge. There are degrees of everything.

WSP is unusual in that it is a county school. having no set district though, is big.
of course i think theyll recede a little now with Gould leaving but thats irrelevant.
theyre just a completely different type of school

They need to put these charters in their own conferences as much as possible, and their own playifff bracket. They shouldnt even be used in the numbers.

I know that wont fly. But they need to be moved up. Of course thats not fair to the schools in higher classes.

If your school advertises for kids, i shouldnt be playing you. I watched some of Wilson Preps games in the playoffs. On the screen it said "Wilson prep" in the top left corner. In the bottom right it said "100% graduation rate". Scrolling along the bottom it said "enroll now before March 15"

If Beddingfield and Hunt cant advertise, they shouldnt be playing a school that can. Recruiting students yet magically not using athletics to recruit them is a line noone can walk.

The thing, to me, is that you always hear that the NCHSAA has their hands tied because they've been told by the legislature not to treat charter schools differently. And it would seem the solution to that would be to say "we aren't treating them differently, we're taking into account the population base that can attend for every school," whether that be a charter school, a magnet school, a school in a county with open enrollment, etc.

 

[S2V2]

Well said.....

 

[CP16]

Well then are they not treating the "Boundary" schools different? A kid that lives in Pikeville, cant go to North Edgecombe? But a kid that lives in Pikeville can go to Wilson Prep? By the way he is 6'7.

P.S. 100% graduation rate, is that on the Kenstrel Heights graduation plan from a few years ago?

 

[ObserveAndReport]

Well then are they not treating the "Boundary" schools different? A kid that lives in Pikeville, cant go to North Edgecombe? But a kid that lives in Pikeville can go to Wilson Prep? By the way he is 6'7.

P.S. 100% graduation rate, is that on the Kenstrel Heights graduation plan from a few years ago?

That's what I'm saying as to why there needs to be a population base multiplier. North Edgecombe would have its enrollment multiplied based on the number of kids in its school district (so a low multiplier) and a Wilson Prep would have a multiplier based on the number of kids within a 25 mile radius of Wilson (so a much higher multiplier). The more people who could exercise their school choice to attend your school, the more your enrollment gets multiplied. But the concept of a multiplier would apply to boundary schools, magnet schools, parochial schools, charter schools, open enrollment schools, etc., so you'd avoid that contention you always hear that charter schools must be treated the same by the NCHSAA as every other type of school.

 

[No Mercy]

I think the nchsaa uses that as an excuse.

 

[CP16]

Guess what check out the final four 1A Soccer. SMH! All "non boundaries"!!!!

 

[Dadof23]

Guess what check out the final four 1A Soccer. SMH! All "non boundaries"!!!!

What does "non boundaries" mean? If they are charters, the do have "boundaries" if you are playing sports. You have to be within a 25 mile radius of school to play.

 

[CP16]

Here go the "Charter" "non boundary" "open enrollment" folks fussing over words again. Give my sons school in ENC 25 miles and we will call it far. Its a freaking joke!!!!!!! 25 miles for the downtown Durham school in a business park? WOW! In BB, its been Rocky Mount Prep. They then got out done by Voyager. They then got out done by Henderson. Now Wilson Co Prep. Who can "Out Charter" the other. 1A boundary schools cant do this.

 

[No Mercy]

And if you think recruiting isnt going on you are naive or dont want to admit it. Coaches find ways to have plausible deniability most of the time, but its going on at a bunch of places.

 

[Dadof23]

And if you think recruiting isnt going on you are naive or dont want to admit it. Coaches find ways to have plausible deniability most of the time, but its going on at a bunch of places.

I agree with that statement "going on at a bunch of places." Including "traditional" schools as well. But places like Wilson Prep gives ALL charters and Preps a bad reputation which I totally agree with. But not all charters are like the Wilson Preps of the world. I heard last week their big man has been in school for 5-6 years and played this year. WOW!