RPI?

[BlueDevil1996]

Is it time to change the RPI system

Freedom won Ashe co and Finished tied with them but yet Ashe co is #20 and Freedom is #39

Also Statesville got a bad spot as They won and finished higher then NL and NL got the #15 seed and Statesville #16 seed - How does that work?

 

[Eagles/Trojans13]

The percentages have to change with the highest percentage being your own winning percentage

 

[84k]

Is it time to change the RPI system

Freedom won Ashe co and Finished tied with them but yet Ashe co is #20 and Freedom is #39

Also Statesville got a bad spot as They won and finished higher then NL and NL got the #15 seed and Statesville #16 seed - How does that work?

Strength of schedule. That’s the only reason Hickory Ridge got in at 3 and 7 they played a brutal nonconference schedule. Plus Playing Mooresville and Lake Norman helped too.

 

[BlueDevil1996]

Strength of schedule. That’s the only reason Hickory Ridge got in at 3 and 7 they played a brutal nonconference schedule. Plus Playing Mooresville and Lake Norman helped too.

But remember that is only from RPI not Playoff seeding

 

[btango]

Let’s start a few more threads about the RPI.

 

[BlueDevil1996]

Let’s start a few more threads about the RPI.

Mine was more for Clarification on why these events happened to team to me imo should of gotten a better Spot

 

[Hon Dines]

Teams winning percentage should be the highest.

 

[RammanuelKant]

One perhaps unconsidered and additional disadvantage to RPI is the double jeopardy of playing in a conference with teams that have three or less victories. They not only are your opponent, but also the opponent’s opponent for other teams in your conference.

For example, you play in 7 team conference with an 0-10 team. The 0-10 squad becomes an opponent’s opponent for five more games.

 

[blkntkl]

As a whole, the avg winning percentage for the conference schedule will be .500. It's all about the non-con. It appears you don't even have to win, just play them and get blasted by 50 and it helps you get in the playoffs to get blasted some more.

 

[BK13T-$]

The percentages have to change with the highest percentage being your own winning percentage

That will encourage teams to schedule soft opposition.

 

[Hon Dines]

That will encourage teams to schedule soft opposition.

MOST teams will not have but maybe 3 non conference games. That's not a lot.

 

[RammanuelKant]

MOST teams will not have but maybe 3 non conference games. That's not a lot.

Which is further inhibited by the new 10 game schedule. We need to go back to 11 and 5 for many reasons.

 

[Deacsfan]

Which is further inhibited by the new 10 game schedule. We need to go back to 11 and 5 for many reasons.

I agree

 

[FB fan 92]

I agree

Conferences need to be balanced where possible. We have 6 team and 8 team conferences in the Raleigh area. The 6 team conferences can schedule 5 non conference games while the 8 team conferences can only schedule 3 non con games. Why those conferences were not balanced out to 7 teams baffles me. It has been a big advantage for the NAC and Cap6 conferences.

 

[RammanuelKant]

Conferences need to be balanced where possible. We have 6 team and 8 team conferences in the Raleigh area. The 6 team conferences can schedule 5 non conference games while the 8 team conferences can only schedule 3 non con games. Why those conferences were not balanced out to 7 teams baffles me. It has been a big advantage for the NAC and Cap6 conferences.

It is also not uncommon for school boards to mandate local non-conference opponents.

 

[btango]

Simple fix in my opinion. Go back to Max Preps. Include scoring differential but cap it about 21. That was removed last time due to concern of trans running the score up. Instead of being removed it should have been modified.

 

[RammanuelKant]

The easiest fix is put all the conference champs in order by record. Undefeated, one loss and two loss. Then use RPI to rank, then do similar for one loss champs. An 8-2 #1 seed is an embarassment.

 

[btango]

The easiest fix is put all the conference champs in order by record. Undefeated, one loss and two loss. Then use RPI to rank, then do similar for one loss champs. An 8-2 #1 seed is an embarassment.

Why use this RPI, it does not work? Why put an undefeated team that plays a super weak schedule in front of a one or two loss team that plays a much tougher schedule?

Take a few different computer polls that are available. Throw in a poll completed by a person if the coaches want to do so. Three or four computer polls and combine into one.

I want to see the best teams play one another in the regular season. Rewarding a team for playing great competition is needed but to not take into account more factors than this RPI is a disaster.

I feel confident after this year the RPI as we know will be completely gone or undergo a radical change.

 

[ocdavis31]

Simple fix in my opinion. Go back to Max Preps. Include scoring differential but cap it about 21. That was removed last time due to concern of trans running the score up. Instead of being removed it should have been modified.

btango, what are your thoughts on using the current rpi formula, but removing oowp? Seems to me that’s the component that has a lot of effect, is inconsistent in its results and over which teams have almost no control.
For instance, in the past few years, Lexington, South Davidson and West Davidson have been very weak ( not as much this year). Other schools in our conference are already negatively affected by having to play them. Why should they be doubly impacted by those teams’ non-conference schedules, knowing that they probably won’t schedule strong teams in order to have a chance for wins and better gate receipts with competitive games?
That’s one example and many teams can say the same. Let’s reward those things that teams have some control over. And the comparison to NCAA is irrelevant to me. High schools don’t have the ability to schedule with a wide geographic range or to offer financial incentives to attract a home game.
What am I missing?

 

[RammanuelKant]

I think point differential needs to play a role. Some have suggested a 21 point cap to prevent running up scores. I think the running clock after a 42 point lead restrains that tendency. Grimsley’s entire schedule of conference ended in seven straight running clocks. I think the spread also gives undermanned squads tangible playing goals, potentially hurting seedings of superior teams even in a losing(perhaps winning!) scenarios.

 

[btango]

I think point differential needs to play a role. Some have suggested a 21 point cap to prevent running up scores. I think the running clock after a 42 point lead restrains that tendency. Grimsley’s entire schedule of conference ended in seven straight running clocks. I think the spread also gives undermanned squads tangible playing goals, potentially hurting seedings of superior teams even in a losing(perhaps winning!) scenarios.

The spread was removed during the first season when MaxPreps was used due to teams leaving in their first team and going fir big plays up by five and six TDs. You cannot friend on everyone doing the “right thing” when rewards can result in not doing the right thing.

If Grimsley or any team is up is by 35 points late in the fourth no starter should be in the field unless they have very few reserves which most bi win 4A schools are not in that predicament.

I think the coaches association for all sports should have A LOT more say in their sport but the problem is they cannot come together and agree on anything.

 

[portcity FB]

One perhaps unconsidered and additional disadvantage to RPI is the double jeopardy of playing in a conference with teams that have three or less victories. They not only are your opponent, but also the opponent’s opponent for other teams in your conference.

For example, you play in 7 team conference with an 0-10 team. The 0-10 squad becomes an opponent’s opponent for five more games.

Yes, and split conferences are even worse as the smaller 3A schools have to get beat up by the larger 4A schools. This is turn encourges them to play a weaker non conference scd. If they are having a down year and lose 2 or 3 of their non conf games then get hammered by the larger schools it kills the 4A schools sos no matter who the 4A schools play non conference. Schools can control non conference scd but they cant in conference.

 

[btango]

btango, what are your thoughts on using the current rpi formula, but removing oowp? Seems to me that’s the component that has a lot of effect, is inconsistent in its results and over which teams have almost no control.

It may work just not that knowledgeable about it. The Weddington scenario especially with Butler is mind boggling. If Butler were undefeated would they still have been behind two loss Weddington?

I think the MaxPreps with a modified point spread may be the best option or add some other computer rankings.

Have the nchsaa present a few options and let the coaches vote on it.

 

[Wiseman83]

The RPI system is out of wack of course based on the Weddington/Butler scenario and a couple other teams but the one thing I am grateful for is that I think RPI incentives teams to schedule tough non conference games. We had some awesome match ups early in the year that I felt brought some excitement to a sport that was losing viewers, especially attendance at a games.

 

[mpj2k8]

The RPI system is out of wack of course based on the Weddington/Butler scenario and a couple other teams but the one thing I am grateful for is that I think RPI incentives teams to schedule tough non conference games. We had some awesome match ups early in the year that I felt brought some excitement to a sport that was losing viewers, especially attendance at a games.

We had some great non conference games in the Charlotte area. Would love to see Grimsley schedule an out of state opponent or a Charlotte team.

 

[RammanuelKant]

We had some great non conference games in the Charlotte area. Would love to see Grimsley schedule an out of state opponent or a Charlotte team.

In a seven team conference, it is hard to do. We played Tabor and Reagan out of Forsyth - strong teams traditionally, but both with more losses than normal and Rolesville who we beat by 29. They have highest RPI in state.

 

[Eagles/Trojans13]

4A West RPI's if RPI was 60% winning percentage, 30% opponents winning percentage and 10% opponents opponents winning percentage

1 Watauga
2 Grimsley
3 Mooresville
4 Hough
5 Butler
6 East Forsyth
7 Lake Norman
8 Weddington
9 Porter Ridge
10 TC Roberson
11 NW Guilford
12 West Forsyth
13 Sun Valley
14 Davie
15 Myers Park
16 Chambers
17 Ardrey Kell
18 Independence
19 Marvin Ridge
20 Charlotte Catholic
21 Mallard Creek
22 Mount Tabor
23 Cuthbertson
24 Cox Mill
25 Page
26 Alexander Central
27 North Meck
28 Asheville
29 AL Brown
30 Providence
31 Reagan
32 SW Guilford
33 Northern Guilford
34 Parkland
35 HIckory Ridge
36 Glenn
37 South Meck
38 South Caldwell
39 Rocky River
40 SE Guilford
41 Palisades
42 Hopewell
43 Olympic
44 Ragsdale
45 RJ Reynolds
46 South Iredell
47 Western Guilford
48 McDowell
49 West Cabarrus
50 Berry
51 East Meck
52 Garinger

 

[Eagles/Trojans13]

4A West RPI's if RPI was 60% winning percentage, 30% opponents winning percentage and 10% opponents opponents winning percentage

1 Watauga
2 Grimsley
3 Mooresville
4 Hough
5 Butler
6 East Forsyth
7 Lake Norman
8 Weddington
9 Porter Ridge
10 TC Roberson
11 NW Guilford
12 West Forsyth
13 Sun Valley
14 Davie
15 Myers Park
16 Chambers
17 Ardrey Kell
18 Independence
19 Marvin Ridge
20 Charlotte Catholic
21 Mallard Creek
22 Mount Tabor
23 Cuthbertson
24 Cox Mill
25 Page
26 Alexander Central
27 North Meck
28 Asheville
29 AL Brown
30 Providence
31 Reagan
32 SW Guilford
33 Northern Guilford
34 Parkland
35 HIckory Ridge
36 Glenn
37 South Meck
38 South Caldwell
39 Rocky River
40 SE Guilford
41 Palisades
42 Hopewell
43 Olympic
44 Ragsdale
45 RJ Reynolds
46 South Iredell
47 Western Guilford
48 McDowell
49 West Cabarrus
50 Berry
51 East Meck
52 Garinger

Using these RPI's, the 4A West Bracket would look like this:
1 Watauga vs 32 SW Guilford
2 Grimsley vs 31 Reagan
3 Mooresville vs 30 Providence
4 Hough vs 29 AL Brown
5 Butler vs 28 Asheville
6 East Forsyth vs 27 North Meck
7 Weddington vs 26 Alexander Central
8 TC Roberson vs 25 Page
9 Myers Park vs 24 Cox Mill
10 Lake Norman vs 23 Cuthbertson
11 Porter Ridge vs 22 Mount Tabor
12 NW Guilford vs 21 Mallard Creek
13 West Forsyth vs 20 Charlotte Catholic
14 Sun Valley vs 19 Marvin Ridge
15 Davie vs 18 Independence
16 Chambers vs 17 Ardrey Kell

 

[btango]

MaxPreps 4A. Fir comparison purposes.

1	Grimsley (Greensboro)	10-0	47.60	7.3
2	Butler (Matthews)	9-1	45.50	15.0
3	Weddington (Matthews)	8-2	43.70	23.6
4	Hough (Cornelius)	9-1	42.60	20.1
5	Rolesville	9-1	41.70	14.8
6	Mooresville	10-0	38.20	10.0
7	Cleveland (Clayton)	10-0	37.70	8.6
8	East Forsyth (Kernersville)	9-1	34.20	13.0
9	Hoggard (Wilmington)	9-1	33.80	5.3
10	Chambers (Charlotte)	7-3	31.70	16.0
11	Mallard Creek (Charlotte)	6-4	31.20	23.0
12	West Forsyth (Clemmons)	7-3	30.90	18.7
13	Porter Ridge (Indian Trail)	8-2	30.30	12.7
14	Cardinal Gibbons (Raleigh)	8-2	29.40	13.1
15	Independence (Charlotte)	7-3	28.60	7.7
16	Clayton	8-2	27.70	9.4
17	Myers Park (Charlotte)	7-3	26.80	12.7
18	Millbrook (Raleigh)	8-2	25.50	9.4
19	Lake Norman (Mooresville)	9-1	25.40	11.1
20	Watauga (Boone)	10-0	25.30	-1.7
21	Pinecrest (Southern Pines)	10-0	25.10	-1.4
22	Mount Tabor (Winston-Salem)	6-4	24.70	14.8
23	Davie (Mocksville)	7-3	24.10	13.3
24	Charlotte Catholic (Charlotte)	7-3	23.90	5.2
25	Laney (Wilmington)	8-2	23.50	4.7

 

[scotswin]

Mine was more for Clarification on why these events happened to team to me imo should of gotten a better Spot

The thread is fine bluedevil no need to justify just as much as there was no need to degrade the thread..

 

[btango]

The thread is fine bluedevil no need to justify just as much as there was no need to degrade the thread..

Not attacking him about the thread as much as that is all we are really talking about and it is because system is so questionable. ADMs were basically what they were. Brackets come from the seeding. But how did the NCHSAA not run simulations to see this type of issue could arise. They have used SAS, the IT/numbers giant located in Raleigh. Even MaxPreps did not drop Weddington further after the season finale L.

 

[BK13T-$]

Owp needs to be the highest of the three or teams will schedule cupcakes.

 

[RammanuelKant]

Owp needs to be the highest of the three or teams will schedule cupcakes.

Too much reward for losing to your opponent.

 

[BK13T-$]

Better than too much reward for scheduling cupcakes