New playoff system...

[ColeridgeNC]

At the end of the day teams with 4-5 wins versus teams with 2-3 loses should get in period point blank. The nfl nba sos doesn’t matter but we have made it matter in hs. Win and you in should be formula. I get scheduling there are some teams who schedule weak non conference because they know they won’t win conference games. How about a 5-5 team versus a team who went 2-8 versus stronger sos are they really better than that 5-5 team??????

Exactly.

There was a baseball team last year that was in the 50s in power ranking, was 3-18, but lost 10 games where they had a lead in the 6th inning or later. They played all 2A and 3A schools in the non conference and playing in the toughest 1A baseball conference.

They were better than teams that actually got in the playoffs.

This is why I like the power ranking.

a 3-8 team who plays good teams versus a 6-5 team who plays cupcakes should get in,

No bias in the computer.

I support this new system 100%.

 

[Thunder_struck8712]

My complaint will be about the automatic berths. What happens if a team is the only team in its conference playing a sport like volleyball or soccer? What if that team is like 0-10, or 2-8 and 59th in the rankings. My understand is they get an auto bid by default.

 

[ColeridgeNC]

My complaint will be about the automatic berths. What happens if a team is the only team in its conference playing a sport like volleyball or soccer? What if that team is like 0-10, or 2-8 and 59th in the rankings. My understand is they get an auto bid by default.

The new system rewards both Conference champions and 2nd place finishers along with conference tournament champions.


I'm not sure why people are struggling to understand the system.

Seed all regular season conference champions according to the power rankings


Then the tier of 2nd place finishers based on power rankings, then everyone else based on power rankings until the field is complete.

Conference tournament champions are automatic bids, but will be seeded simply based on power rankings, but if a team that does not have an automatic bid wins conference tournament, then it could push someone else out.

 

[btango]

At the end of the day teams with 4-5 wins versus teams with 2-3 loses should get in period point blank. The nfl nba sos doesn’t matter but we have made it matter in hs. Win and you in should be formula. I get scheduling there are some teams who schedule weak non conference because they know they won’t win conference games. How about a 5-5 team versus a team who went 2-8 versus stronger sos are they really better than that 5-5 team??????

Comparing the NBA and NFL to NC high school football is not really sensible. A lot of cross competition there.

If 5-5 played a couple of independent 1A teams and a couple of home school squads while 2-8 played four string 2A teams and an average 3A team I would think 2-8 may be better. More than just the record goes into it. That analogy takes me back to too many teams in the playoffs. 32, subdivide, 4 rounds. 4A should do the same. Play the week before 2A and 3A complete their five rounds.

 

[ColeridgeNC]

Also, my only complaint is and it is specific to baseball.

Baseball does not need to have byes.

Everyone should play the same number of games due to pitching.

Baseball should remain 64 in all classes or drop to 32 in all classes.

I think it should drop to 32 and change format.


16 in east and 16 in west.

Play within pods 4 locations at the top 4 seeds and play pool play.

Who ever wins the pool

Moves on the to round of 16 reseeded for a best of 3 series.

Then after two weeks you are down to 4 teams left, then play it out from there like it has been.

Dropping to 32 and making it a actual accomplishment to get in, then reward with more than just one game.






West

 

[NWWatchdog]

The threshold is 25 beat bad teams by 25 and if you lose don’t lose by more than 25

And where is this magical number posted? Also, what's the "threshold" or magic number for other sports? Like I posted earlier, East Surry's volleyball team lost 3-2 and 3-2 to the #2 ranked team in the state in 2A, but have won every other match all year long (currently 25-2). Of their 25 wins, they have only lost 1 set the entire year, meaning they beat EVERY OTHER TEAM 3-0, including numerous 4A, 3A, and 2A teams...yet the system had them with a NEGATIVE strength of schedule at the beginning of the playoffs and had them ranked 8th in the state according to Maxpreps. Since the playoffs have begun, they've risen to a 0.8 SOS and are now listed as 6th in the state based on the computer. A little transparency with the formula for all sports would be appreciated.

 

[RichBlackman]

At the end of the day just have your team ready to win. Home or away it doesn't matter. Prepare and stop all the crying. Mics doesn't care who or where we play. We just wanna play the game.

 

[Thunder_struck8712]

The new system rewards both Conference champions and 2nd place finishers along with conference tournament champions.


I'm not sure why people are struggling to understand the system.

Seed all regular season conference champions according to the power rankings


Then the tier of 2nd place finishers based on power rankings, then everyone else based on power rankings until the field is complete.

Conference tournament champions are automatic bids, but will be seeded simply based on power rankings, but if a team that does not have an automatic bid wins conference tournament, then it could push someone else out.

Im not struggling to understand anything. I understand the system. What I don't understand is why a team in a conference that is the only team in that conference that plays a sport gets rewarded with an automatic berth.

 

[ColeridgeNC]

Im not struggling to understand anything. I understand the system. What I don't understand is why a team in a conference that is the only team in that conference that plays a sport gets rewarded with an automatic berth.

Because they are by default, the conference champs.

I agree, though, perhaps they should tweak that a bit.

 

[BravesGWY]

I don’t mind the rankings but to give a two person conference an automatic top 4 seed is plain dumb.

 

[ColeridgeNC]

I don’t mind the rankings but to give a two person conference an automatic top 4 seed is plain dumb.

Perhaps that should look at that.

Something like 1 auto bid per 4 teams, otherwise you have to be seeded at large. If they are in a 2 team conference and are good, the system will work itself out as they would be one of the highest seeded at large bids and likely host first round anyway.

 

[BravesGWY]

You see the 4 a .. south Caldwell will a first round bye and host second round with 1 total win because they beat McDowell the only other 4a team in conference

 

[Thunder_struck8712]

I think a conference should have 4 teams playing a sport in order to get an auto bid. In a split conference I think a team should have to finish top 4 to get the auto bid.

 

[btango]

South Caldwell makes the playoff with the same record and place last year. They would have been the lowest seed conference champion.

 

[BravesGWY]

That’s something that needs fixing

 

[btango]

That’s something that needs fixing

Agreed!

 

[CP16]

If we are going to use maxpreps, (which know one knows how they come up with) then use it completely. Teams in splits and small, tiny below average conferences do not belong on 1 lines or 2 lines. You can let them in, but don't seed them high when they have beat nobody. Take the 48 or 64 that qualify and then use the ranking. If your league is strong you may have 2 from your league with a high seed etc. Many 2s and 3s are much stronger than some 1As.

 

[footballstar_17]

If we are going to use maxpreps, (which know one knows how they come up with) then use it completely. Teams in splits and small, tiny below average conferences do not belong on 1 lines or 2 lines. You can let them in, but don't seed them high when they have beat nobody. Take the 48 or 64 that qualify and then use the ranking. If your league is strong you may have 2 from your league with a high seed etc. Many 2s and 3s are much stronger than some 1As.

I think you have to meet in the middle somewhere.

I think at minimum you still have to reward your first place finishers. All first place finishers should get an automatic bid as well as the top seeds (1 - # of conferences). Then everyone else would be an at large bid.

However, in order to do that fairly, I think they need to get rid of split conferences; as well as, having all conferences around the same number of teams (5-7).

If you do not get rid of split conferences:

1. Conference champ would still get an automatic bid regardless of classification.
2. You have to finish in the top three to get an automatic bid. Your team would be seeded based on rating.

Next, it may be hard to get all conferences to be around the same number of teams, so I would suggest:

1. All conference winners get an automatic bid and seeded 1 - # of conference champs.
2. If a conference has 7+ teams, conference runner up gets an auto bid but is still seeded based on rating.
3. If a conference has 9+ teams, 3rd place gets auto bid but also is seeded based on rating.

 

[recycled2]

That’s something that needs fixing

But how? Split conferences are usually in place due to excessive travel. It may not be possible to place them in a conference of only 1A teams. Posters on here complain about charters that can draw from bigger areas and more students, but yet we are willing to do the same to other 1A schools by assigning them to a split conference. They may never be able to win that conference. You have to give them some hope. The solution is to not give any automatic top seeds. Do we really want to do that?

 

[recycled2]

By the way, in 1A volleyball the final four in the West are the top four seeds. Two of the top seeds are left in the East. The system seems to have worked this time.

 

[NWWatchdog]

By the way, in 1A volleyball the final four in the West are the top four seeds. Two of the top seeds are left in the East. The system seems to have worked this time.

Seems so (except for that #1 overall seed in the East losing in their 1st game). I'm still waiting for someone to explain the algorithm that determines Strength of Schedule, which ultimately impacts seeding. East Surry (#3 seed in the west) just beat Starmount (#6 seed in the west) 3-0 in the 3rd round. Maxpreps had Starmount seeded #6 due to their 16-8 record (6.3 SOS). ES was seeded #3 with a 24-2 record entering the playoffs (0.7 SOS - it was a negative most of the year). Yet, ES had wins over 5 similar opponents (Starmount lost to 2 of those 5). The NW1A Volleyball was a very weak conference, however ES had 6 wins over 2A teams, 2 wins over 3A teams, and 3 wins over 4A teams. No system is going to be perfect - I just think most people want transparency regarding HOW Maxpreps determines strength of schedule, especially if that factor is going to be even more important than a teams overall record. Is that unfair to ask?

 

[btango]

1A West 1-4 are in the regional semifinals. 1A East 2 and 3 are in while 1 and 2 lost out to charters.
Six of top eight seeds are in the semis.

2A West are 1-3 and 14. 2A East 1, 3, 4, and 7.
Six of top eight seeds are in the semis.

3A West 1-4. 3A East 1-3, and 5.
Seven of top eight seeds are in the semis.

4A West 1, 3-4, and 10. 4A East 1-3 and 13.
Six of the top eight seeds are in the semis.

25 of 32 top eight seeds made the semi finals. Right at 90%.

 

[btango]

Gray Stone at #5 and Murphy at #4 looked to have been a very tight matchup.

 

[NWWatchdog]

1A West 1-4 are in the regional semifinals. 1A East 2 and 3 are in while 1 and 2 lost out to charters.
Six of top eight seeds are in the semis.

2A West are 1-3 and 14. 2A East 1, 3, 4, and 7.
Six of top eight seeds are in the semis.

3A West 1-4. 3A East 1-3, and 5.
Seven of top eight seeds are in the semis.

4A West 1, 3-4, and 10. 4A East 1-3 and 13.
Six of the top eight seeds are in the semis.

25 of 32 top eight seeds made the semi finals. Right at 90%.

I'm not necessarily disputing the results...just the fact that no one seems to know the formula or algorithm used to determine SOS. Shouldn't there be transparency on HOW it's determined? If you play in a weaker conference, shouldn't you be given the information regarding what you need to do in order to strengthen your team's standing in order to try and improve your potential playoff seeding (giving you a chance to host more games and travel less)?

 

[btango]

I'm not necessarily disputing the results...just the fact that no one seems to know the formula or algorithm used to determine SOS. Shouldn't there be transparency on HOW it's determined? If you play in a weaker conference, shouldn't you be given the information regarding what you need to do in order to strengthen your team's standing in order to try and improve your potential playoff seeding (giving you a chance to host more games and travel less)?

This is a guess on my part but I expect their response is they do not want to give their "business model" to competitors. I am sure they could give some information to assist and I do think teams and coaches need more info. It is apparent from what I have seen over the years is winning and a strong strength of schedule are the two main denominators. With that said I have seen some anomalies, also.

I am more interested in the football and then basketball brackets. I believe that more people are very "in tune" and knowledgeable of those sports and will allow us more intelligent comparisons. Cannot wait for next Saturday!

 

[mbdfan]

Gray Stone at #5 and Murphy at #4 looked to have been a very tight matchup.

Pretty good contest. Gray Stone came out and took the first set but lady 'Dogs rebounded and pretty well cruised in sets two and three, looked on their way to doing so in the fourth but Gray Stone rallied and made it interesting, lady 'Dogs ultimately won 3-1.

 

[thekidd12]

By the way, in 1A volleyball the final four in the West are the top four seeds. Two of the top seeds are left in the East. The system seems to have worked this time.

But all these top seeds have played at home correct?

See yea the system is "working" in that top seeds are advancing but how much effect does home court advantage have on a contest between two evenly matched teams?

An advantage created by a secret, or as one poster has stated possibly proprietary, formula that no one understands.

 

[btango]

But all these top seeds have played at home correct?

See yea the system is "working" in that top seeds are advancing but how much effect does home court advantage have on a contest between two evenly matched teams?

An advantage created by a secret, or as one poster has stated possibly proprietary, formula that no one understands.

Gray Stone traveling 4.5 hours to Murphy probably was tough. Would the match have been different if they played in the middle at Freedom HS? They could have just drawn straws to determine which of the two had the higher seed.

 

[recycled2]

But all these top seeds have played at home correct?

See yea the system is "working" in that top seeds are advancing but how much effect does home court advantage have on a contest between two evenly matched teams?

An advantage created by a secret, or as one poster has stated possibly proprietary, formula that no one understands.

Guy's, regardless of system someone gets a homefield/homecourt advantage. The solution is like the basketball playoffs in the early 90s, play in neutral central locations. The NCHSAA will not buy it. It is about money, that is why the western region in basketball is played in Winston Salem (which is a joke in relation to the western end of the state.).

 

[btango]

Guy's, regardless of system someone gets a homefield/homecourt advantage. The solution is like the basketball playoffs in the early 90s, play in neutral central locations. The NCHSAA will not buy it. It is about money, that is why the western region in basketball is played in Winston Salem (which is a joke in relation to the western end of the state.).

They only play the final there now which is an improvement but Hickory area would be best for the final.

Told by a western basketball coach last year that a college wanted what worked out to basically the whole gate to hold a playoff game.

 

[btango]

The volleyball brackets played out much like they were seeded. This time next week we will be all about the football brackets

 

[SimmonsRatings]

I've been saying for about 10 years now that the NCHSAA needs to change the way the split conferences are treated - they should be seeded like any other conference. South Caldwell (will be 1-10 or 2-9) being a 1 seed and getting a home game is ridiculous. Especially when they can't beat the 3A teams in their league. I have no problem with them making the playoffs as the top 4A team in the league, but they should be seeded as at-large.

 

[Wildcat10fan]

Same thing in Track, as far as location for Western Regionals. It was held at a High School a little east of Hickory. It was ridiculous with little to none bleachers to set in. Thank God I took my own chairs. Why couldn’t we have it at a larger High School in the Asheville area. 2 hour drive for schools west of Asheville and 2 hours east of Asheville. Central location. Having the State finals at NC A & T is fine because they have great facilities for that large of a event but they shouldn’t have 1A & 3A combined on the same day. It’s all about the money

 

[btango]

Are 2A and 4A track not the same setup as 1A and 3A?

Track and other individual sports should have no classification. I would like to see track & field as open. Run the girls event and then the boys race. Run relays in classification. State meet should be the top four from the east and the four from the west with no qualifying races on state finals championship day.

 

[Wildcat10fan]

Are 2A and 4A track not the same setup as 1A and 3A?

Track and other individual sports should have no classification. I would like to see track & field as open. Run the girls event and then the boys race. Run relays in classification. State meet should be the top four from the east and the four from the west with no qualifying races on state finals championship day.

Yes, 2A & 4A are combined also. It makes for a very long day and a very long drive back to Andrews after setting in the baking sun all day or chilly wet day as we have had a couple of those also. To many athletes especially in the throwing events and it backed things up because like my daughter was in Disc & Shot then was in 2 running events. It was a mess this past spring

 

[btango]

The problem in track is not having two classifications on the same at at the same place. The issue is the number of athletes that qualify for the state meet.

 

[Thunder_struck8712]

I've been saying for about 10 years now that the NCHSAA needs to change the way the split conferences are treated - they should be seeded like any other conference. South Caldwell (will be 1-10 or 2-9) being a 1 seed and getting a home game is ridiculous. Especially when they can't beat the 3A teams in their league. I have no problem with them making the playoffs as the top 4A team in the league, but they should be seeded as at-large.

As I said somewhere earlier I think to get an automatic berth from a split conference I think you should have to finish in the top 4 of the conference. I just wish the state would do away with this split conference madness. I know it would be hard to do logistically and schools in conferences like the WHC would make it difficult.

 

[SimmonsRatings]

The soccer brackets just came out - MaxPreps numbers used are NOT the same as the ones on the MaxPreps website.

 

[thekidd12]

The soccer brackets just came out - MaxPreps numbers used are NOT the same as the ones on the MaxPreps website.

Super secret sauce had not been used yet?

 

[SimmonsRatings]

Super secret sauce had not been used yet?

I would like to hear why the NCHSAA's published MaxPreps rankings for soccer are not the same as the ones on the website.