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Mallard Creek/Wake Forest Fatigue

mrhonda

Well-Known Member
Nov 12, 2012
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I know this post could be misunderstood. I mean nothing against any of these programs. They've done outstanding jobs building their programs and I congratulate both of them. I'm just an advocate of variety.

A few years ago, there was a phenomenon called "SEC fatigue", where fans outside of the SEC were tiring of it always being SEC teams ranked number 1 or being the favorite for the national championship. I was one of them. Of course, you don't want to punish successful programs. So, you just hope other programs and conferences would step it up.

I haven't followed 4A and specifically 4AA as much the last couple of years because of "Mallard Creek/Wake Forest fatigue". I mean every year, one can make a prediction and be very accurate that Mallard Creek and Wake Forest will be the top two programs in 4A in the state.

We shouldn't punish success and I'd never advocate that, but would other programs, particularly in Wake County, please step it up? Wake Forest will be the top 4A program in the east as far as I can see, if for no other reason, unless they play a Richmond Senior, there is no other program in the east and particularly Wake county, who is close to challenging them. The programs just aren't there. With the emphasis on other sports in Wake county, maybe the other schools don't mind getting their brains beat out of them game after game, season after season. This year was supposed to be a rebuilding year for the Cougars. Yet, this season, they are still rolling.

I take nothing away from Coach Lucas' program. He has done one outstanding job at Wake Forest in building them up to one of the elite teams in 4A in the state. The last two years, they've been THE elite team in the state, working on two straight shut outs in state championship games. One can't argue against results like that. But they shouldn't be the only program. I said it earlier in a post somewhere, I see no one at all keeping Wake Forest from another state title game in 4AA. Therein lies the problem. No one is there, in the east, who can oppose Wake Forest and prevent them from another state title game.

They've won 36 straight and 63 of their last 65 games. Their only two losses during that time were to Page and Mallard Creek. They haven't lost to a Wake County team since 2013; that's 2013!!!! If they played only Wake County teams their streak could over 100. Who in Wake county or the east, unless, maybe Richmond and/or Page go east, could beat them? This year, it would have to be Richmond. After their game with East Forsyth, I don't think Page is in a position to really challenge this year. And Wake Forest has already handled Ricmond. Wake Forest fans, prepare for a state title game.

I know, I know, the old "anything can happen in the playoffs" and "on any given night" lines are well known. Well, it hasn't even been close.

Then we have Mallard Creek. It's not quite as bad in the west, where at least the Mavericks have competition in their conference and they attemp to schedule very tough out of conference opponents. During the same time, the Creek is 57-7. If it weren't for Butler, the Creek wouldn't have had much opposition in their way to titles. Now, they did have Lake Norman and East Forsyth in their way, during their last state title run. Their competition level has been higher but usually Mallard Creek makes the title game.

Since 2013 they've made the state title game four times and Wake Forest has made it four times.

So once again, in 4AA, we could be treated to yet another Mallard Creek/Wake Forest matchup, though the road is considerably tougher for Mallard Creek.

Again, I don't fault these two programs. Their coaches, staffs and players have done an outstanding job. I commend them for it. I just wish more programs would step up. I see that possibility more in the West than in the east.

I thought maybe Hough would this year. But, then they squeak by Mooresville 12-7. So it remains to be seen whether they will or not. Maybe Vance, but that doesn't look likely after they played the Mavericks. This season Butler isn't quite there. Myers Park after their start? They've got to figure out how to get past Butler first.

Again, to the Maverick and Cougar faithful, I'm not disparaging your programs. Why do I keep saying this? Because no matter how many times I say this, there's always that one person who thinks one is dispararing their program. I'm not.

I just wish 4AA had more variety, that's all. So, I guess I'll go down and camp out in 3A, until Charlotte Catholic/Havelock end up being the same thing.
 
I hate to break it to you, but over the past several years Richmond was being beaten by other teams in the east, including Wake County teams.
 
Beat them
Building a program like that 2 b on par with those 2 teams takes time. I mentioned these comparisons b4 with butler dealing with indy during their run..creek dealing with butler during their time n now ( I'll use my cougars as the next example) dealing with creek during their reign. Jus like blue said. .if u dont like it beat em....simple.
 
LOL... not simple... is it coaching? Or do these kids move around to play for certain teams and coaches? Gotta be somethin going on. Naturally, they get recognition at the good schools... " son, you're gonna go across town and stay with Uncle John and Aunt Belle next couple years " LOL, just sayin.
 
In 4A/4AA I have asked for a review to do away with the East/West format after round three. The semi-finals would then match the 4 and 1 overall and the 2 and 3 overall seed. I would be fine with alternating home field between the higher seed, East/West, or a true centralized location.

Travel is a real issue. Ask fans that drive four or so hours to make it to a game. I think it is less an issue in 4AA than any other bracket as the schools are going to be from Charlotte, Triad, and Triangle, with a couple of others mixed in.

We live in a tough geographically mapped state. It is what it is.

If you look at the final four in each sub class you will notice there are some teams that make it to the semifinals a lot.

Cut the number of titles back to five or six and I think we would see more teams rotating deep in the playoffs and probably better title games. THe whole alignment and football playoffs need to be looked at closely for a possible overhaul.
 
I agree. The reason I think we should do away with the East-West format is due to competition and having a level playing field. Lets be honest WF will not be tested until maybe 4AA Eastern Final?? maybe whereas MC will be tested in round 2 and beyond. Last year in 4A, I would bet if you put Vance, East Forsyth,Davie Co out east, more than likely Scotland will be done by round 3 instead of being in the 4A final
 
Drop the sub-classes and maybe there would be more competition? Idk, just throwing ideas out there.
 
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Lets make this plain and simple in the words of the greatest entertainer of all time, " In order to be the man you have to beat the man" Whoa!
 
You all know the NCHSAA won't go back to pre 2002....it's all about the Benjamin's baby!!

The NCHSAA requested both 1A and 4A to go to four rounds last with the 20/30/30/20 alignment. (They settled on 48 with byes.) The schools (coaches) were opposed. It had been brought up to 1A in previous years. Some of the reasons were uncompetitive teams making the playoffs, first round travel, and the smaller schools have many more players playing winter sports. 1A said it was not fair to treat them different than the other classes. This from the classification that brought in subdividing and the pod system solely for themselves.

A few years ago the NCHSAA put ideas out at the regional meetings regarding realignment. Three ideas would have most likely lowered the number of football titles. One was five classification. At every meeting, not one or a few, the question was asked, "will we still subdivide football?" Answer, it is a decision for the schools but the recommendation was no.
 
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Do away with the East-West Format
You would STILL have a MC/Wake Forest state title with usual suspects Butler/Page looming in the background...maybe Hough and Vance( and if RC is for real, they might pop up once).

or even worse Butler MC title game every other year
 
Wake Forest had some studs transfer in, one from SC I believe, he is a beast. The Wake Forest area is growing. When people move in they want a top program if their kid has talent. WF always has size...always.
 
If we're going to sub-divide the east-west format just needs to go. Typically the better teams are out west. Just think it'll be better games without the current format
 
The NCHSAA requested both 1A and 4A to go to four rounds last with the 20/30/30/20 alignment. (They settled on 48 with byes.) The schools (coaches) were opposed. It had been brought up to 1A in previous years. Some of the reasons were uncompetitive teams making the playoffs, first round travel, and the smaller schools have many more players playing winter sports. 1A said it was not fair to treat them different than the other classes. This from the classification that brought in subdividing and the pod system solely for themselves.

A few years ago the NCHSAA put ideas out at the regional meetings regarding realignment. Three ideas would have most likely lowered the number of football titles. One was five classification. At every meeting, not one or a few, the question was asked, "will we still subdivide football?" Answer, it is a decision for the schools but the recommendation was no.

More subdivisions = more state title, more regional finals etc,etc. Looks good on a resume
 
More subdivisions = more state title, more regional finals etc,etc. Looks good on a resume

One former HC (two state titles) listed on his biography that his team's had made the playoffs X number of years consecutively. It then read that a lot of those years were when qualifying for the playoffs was still a sign of success.
 
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If we're going to sub-divide the east-west format just needs to go. Typically the better teams are out west. Just think it'll be better games without the current format

Currently the majority of "good" teams are in the west. In fact the majority of large schools are in the west. This hasn't always been the case and could change one day again. How willing would you be to go to Wilmington from Charlotte or further west for a 1st or second round game? Being in the middle and never knowing which side we'll go sucks but at least the east west split makes sense due to travel time and related costs.
 
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Currently the majority of "good" teams are in the west. In fact the majority of large schools are in the west. This hasn't always been the case and could change one day again. How willing would you be to go to Wilmington from Charlotte or further west for a 1st or second round game? Being in the middle and never knowing which side we'll go sucks but at least the east west split makes sense due to travel time and related costs.

The reason I would only support it for semifinal round on.

Not many 4AA teams in Wilmington. Richmond is one of the very few not in an urban area.
 
I know this is an older thread, but I lurk on this site and never post, but living Wake County and seeing things develop over the last few years, I believe the biggest issue comes down to coaching. There is really a dearth of high-level coaches throughout the area. By that, I mean head coaches and experienced assistants who can lead and develop coaches under them. I'm not an insider, but a program like WF seems to attract good coaches that don't want to leave. I don't blame them. Other programs have inexperienced coaches, journeymen, or ineffective "veterans." Many of these coaches have little control over their staffs. Some staffs have 15 coaches on the sidelines, while others have half that many who handle both JV and Varsity coaching duties.
This really doesn't make for parity in a coaching environment (high school) where so much of success comes down to how well a coach can teach and run effective reps with their players.
 
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I know this is an older thread, but I lurk on this site and never post, but being living Wake County and seeing things develop over the last few years, I believe the biggest issue comes down to coaching. There is really a dearth of high-level coaches throughout the area. By that, I mean head coaches and experienced assistants who can lead and develop coaches under them. I'm not an insider, but a program like WF seems to attract good coaches that don't want to leave. I don't blame them. Other programs have inexperienced coaches, journeymen, or ineffective "veterans." Many of these coaches have little control over their staffs. Some staffs have 15 coaches on the sidelines, while others have half that many who handle both JV and Varsity coaching duties.
This really doesn't make for parity in a coaching environment (high school) where so much of success comes down to how well a coach can teach and run effective reps with their players.

Thanks for the perspective specifically in Wake County. As it applies to downstate Mallard Creek has an excellent staff but has had quite a bit of turnover. The constant is the Head Coach Palmieri and the culture and accountability needed to be on his staff. One of the differences that makes Mallard Creek different from Wake Forest is there are 4-6 teams that have great staffs as well with more growing each year which is why the team that comes out of Charlotte has gone through “hell” to get to a Regional Final. The “good ole boy” coaches continue to lose and be average with little expectation from those schools because football is not the priority sport most times but slowly but surely they are eliminating themselves in Mecklenburg County. There are a lot of talented young Coaches down State at this time.
 
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Wake Forest will not make it out of the East. They just aren't that good. They have a solid defense, but no where near the past four years. Middle Creek is the worst they've been in 5 years and that game was in question until the 1:04 mark. WF didn't score an offensive TD until then. WF QB simply can't beat you and their running game isn't any good unless they pick up3/4 on 1st down.
 
Think Wake still makes it to title game. I just dont see the team yet ready to beat them especially at home.
 
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