1A Is Henderson Collegiate a public school?

btango

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Also, if we had pulled talent from Elizabethon, TN and Morganton, as well as the other counties listed above (all within a 25 mile radius) we would have been unstoppable even for the mighty WSP Phoenix and Lincoln Charter Eagles. Imagine recruiting and only having 1 state title to show for it...
You do realize that an open enrollment Avery, whether charter, magnet, or “traditional” public would not have got all of the top players from those areas.
 

btango

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I have been around high school sports for a lot of years. Been to games as far east and far west as you can go. Very into the logistical and administrative aspects.

About 12-14 years ago I wrote on this site and others and told people that were complaining about Charlotte Catholic that there was a baby elephant growing in the corner and to get ready. I was referring to charters and I was literally laughed at!

Some charters are great academic schools that put the books first but a lot of them have a desire to be very strong in athletics. I support people’s choice and some of those schools goals to excel in sports but they should not be playing 1A sports. Not only charters but Parochials and open enrollment magnets should not be in 1A. With that said, there are “traditional” schools that allow students from outside the district to play sports and that should exclude those “small town, one school county, community traditional schools” from 1A with very few exceptions.

The NCHSAA feels their hands are tied on this and have been “told” charters are public schools and should be treated no different than the other schools. These schools do not bring in enough funds or have enough power on their own to be difference makers. Charters are a favorite among your elected officials and at the end of the day they control the schools, DPI, the budgets, and therefore the NCHSAA. Remember your representatives changed the conference alignments without notifying the NCHSAA about a dozen years ago. That’s right. They moved schools around to different conferences.

Until the 1A schools, especially the mountain schools, figure out a a way to work together instead of trying to screw each other they will not get anything achieved. It takes superintendents, principals, ADs, and coaches especially football coaches.
 

GreyGod623

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You are an idiot for saying any of those things...Check Lincoln Charters roster. Every one of those kids, minus 1, played MS and JV for LCS The runners the same thing. MIC pulls from Charlotte area seeing they are on the line of CMS so I'm sure that is why they get better athletes.
If we met in person, you would not be so brazen as to call me an idiot.
 

AHVikingNation

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You do realize that an open enrollment Avery, whether charter, magnet, or “traditional” public would not have got all of the top players from those areas.
I understand that. With that being said though, I know of multiple kids that given the opportunity through open enrollment would've loved to attend Avery County High School. I also understand that kids attending Freedom for athletics wouldn't come and some from other surrounding areas would stay at home to play out the rest of their high school careers. Very similar to any other open enrollment situation if you get my gist.
 
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AHVikingNation

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You may be competitive at best in 1A if you would do that. I think you drink the kool-aid of thinking your mountain talent is equal to those a little further to the east. If you think so highly of the talent in Avery, bring them down to Charlotte...heck Hickory or Gastonia and play someone every now and then. I've never seen that before. Lincoln Charter is a solid program that will be back. Will Avery?
You are hilarious! Were you alive from 2014-2017 when we went yearly to the Freedom Christmas tournament? Playing the defending 3A State Champs to OT one year, losing to a McDowell team that made it to the 3rd Rd of the 4A state playoffs in a battle of the unbeatens by 4. Playing high quality 3A Asheville area teams in Thanksgiving Tournaments and the yearly Coaches vs Cancer kickoff at UNC Asheville. We always played with WSP tough until they were able to throw in fresh legs from the end of their bench that were just as good as their starters. Your Eagles played at the Freedom Christmas tournament a couple of years while Avery played in it.
 
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Dadof23

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I understand that. With that being said though, I know of multiple kids that given the opportunity through open enrollment would've loved to attend Avery County High School. I also understand that kids attending Freedom for athletics wouldn't come and some from other surrounding areas would stay at home to play out the rest of their high school careers. Very similar to any other open enrollment situation if you get my gist.
I also know a ton of kids that would like to attend a charter school but because of the lottery couldn't get in. Just because you want to go doesn't mean you get in...that is the thing that NONE of you will ever understand. The lottery is regulated by laws so even if you think that someone is recruiting (which is stupid by the way) the odds are against them because of this as the school itself could be shut down.
 

FB is my Life

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I have been around high school sports for a lot of years. Been to games as far east and far west as you can go. Very into the logistical and administrative aspects.

About 12-14 years ago I wrote on this site and others and told people that were complaining about Charlotte Catholic that there was a baby elephant growing in the corner and to get ready. I was referring to charters and I was literally laughed at!

Some charters are great academic schools that put the books first but a lot of them have a desire to be very strong in athletics. I support people’s choice and some of those schools goals to excel in sports but they should not be playing 1A sports. Not only charters but Parochials and open enrollment magnets should not be in 1A. With that said, there are “traditional” schools that allow students from outside the district to play sports and that should exclude those “small town, one school county, community traditional schools” from 1A with very few exceptions.

The NCHSAA feels their hands are tied on this and have been “told” charters are public schools and should be treated no different than the other schools. These schools do not bring in enough funds or have enough power on their own to be difference makers. Charters are a favorite among your elected officials and at the end of the day they control the schools, DPI, the budgets, and therefore the NCHSAA. Remember your representatives changed the conference alignments without notifying the NCHSAA about a dozen years ago. That’s right. They moved schools around to different conferences.

Until the 1A schools, especially the mountain schools, figure out a a way to work together instead of trying to screw each other they will not get anything achieved. It takes superintendents, principals, ADs, and coaches especially football coaches.
There are several groups in the east forming (members include lawyers, local politicians etc.) to apply political pressure to address this issue. People want to blame the NCHSAA, but their hands have basically been tied.
 
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AHVikingNation

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I also know a ton of kids that would like to attend a charter school but because of the lottery couldn't get in. Just because you want to go doesn't mean you get in...that is the thing that NONE of you will ever understand. The lottery is regulated by laws so even if you think that someone is recruiting (which is stupid by the way) the odds are against them because of this as the school itself could be shut down.
Name me some basketball stars that were turned away from Lincoln Charter...
 

btango

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There are several groups in the east forming (members include lawyers, local politicians etc.) to apply political pressure to address this issue. People want to blame the NCHSAA, but their hands have basically been tied.
The "politicians?" LMAO. The politicians they are sucking up to are the ones that push the charter agenda.
 

FB is my Life

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The "politicians?" LMAO. The politicians they are sucking up to are the ones that push the charter agenda.
Understood. Point being they are trying something. Odds are long, but it will be interesting to see if they get any traction.
 
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BK13T-$

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Das23, how many state ranked wrestlers do you think didnt get in to Uwharrie. 11 got in.
30? 40?
Think about what your saying.
Also charters run their own lottery without anyone else involved. Thats not right.
 
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Dadof23

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Das23, how many state ranked wrestlers do you think didnt get in to Uwharrie. 11 got in.
30? 40?
Think about what your saying.
Also charters run their own lottery without anyone else involved. Thats not right.
You obviously do not know what you are talking about. When charters have lotteries, representatives from the state make a trip to do the lottery. For example, LCS had a lottery last Saturday. If you applied for the lottery, you are given a number. You are allowed to come to the site, which was held in the main gymnasium, and listen as the state representative calls out each number for each grade. This takes about all day to run as they are a lot, especially lower grades, that try and get into LCS. If you are not present, the lottery list is online for you to look at the order. How in the world can you control that and say anyone is cheating/recruiting, etc? You need to do some checking before you assume you think you know things. Now if Uwharrie is not running things like that, well, it won't be long until they are shut down. I can only speak for LCS as, yes, I am a father of 2 children that attend and that is the process. No one from LCS had anything to do with the lottery other than setting the stage and speaking/answering questions parents may have.
 

BK13T-$

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A charter could make sure alot of athletes apply for the lottery.
Who is the rep the state sent to your kids lottery?
 

thekidd12

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Been reading this “annual” thread with some interest. I have thoroughly enjoyed the discussion. I do have a question about this lottery however. According to a source I have at the wrestling/baseball charter in this county the lottery is only held if the grade the student/athlete will be entering is full. Now not saying that way everywhere
 
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Dadof23

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Been reading this “annual” thread with some interest. I have thoroughly enjoyed the discussion. I do have a question about this lottery however. According to a source I have at the wrestling/baseball charter in this county the lottery is only held if the grade the student/athlete will be entering is full. Now not saying that way everywhere
Not true...the lottery is held each year for each grade level. So, if you didn't get in the previous year and say you were next up. That number disappears and you have to start over. The lottery is held each grade (k-12) and it starts fresh each year. I know we were in the lottery for 4 years before my kids were accepted. But what makes it crazy is some parents enroll each year and never get a call because of spots. But there are always new parents that try for the first time and get in the lottery. Crazy how it works which is why it is impossible to recruit. I know for elementary (k-5) the list can be as long as 1,000 on the waiting list and in high school, the list is usually 200-300 per grade. Again, impossible to recruit.
 
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Dadof23

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A charter could make sure alot of athletes apply for the lottery.
Who is the rep the state sent to your kids lottery?
Charters do not care about sports and who puts their name in the lottery. Maybe you have a coach that is doing that, but highly doubt the school itself cares. And I have no clue who the 3 people sent from the state are...not that connected.
 

ocdavis31

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Not true...the lottery is held each year for each grade level. So, if you didn't get in the previous year and say you were next up. That number disappears and you have to start over. The lottery is held each grade (k-12) and it starts fresh each year. I know we were in the lottery for 4 years before my kids were accepted. But what makes it crazy is some parents enroll each year and never get a call because of spots. But there are always new parents that try for the first time and get in the lottery. Crazy how it works which is why it is impossible to recruit. I know for elementary (k-5) the list can be as long as 1,000 on the waiting list and in high school, the list is usually 200-300 per grade. Again, impossible to recruit.
Did each of your kids have to apply individually, or if one gets in they all get in? Always wondered about that.
 
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Dadof23

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Did each of your kids have to apply individually, or if one gets in they all get in? Always wondered about that.
Individually...but when one sibling gets in the other is bumped up to what they called the "sibling" list which for us meant my daughter went from number 18 to number 3 which in return she got in at a later date when a spot opened. But it is not guaranteed...a spot has to be available...
 

TRCsports

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Frank Mansfield has some information on this subject in SC. The high school league this week failed to place charters/privates in their own payoff brackets.

@MNfrankie is his twitter.
 

thekidd12

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Not true...the lottery is held each year for each grade level. So, if you didn't get in the previous year and say you were next up. That number disappears and you have to start over. The lottery is held each grade (k-12) and it starts fresh each year. I know we were in the lottery for 4 years before my kids were accepted. But what makes it crazy is some parents enroll each year and never get a call because of spots. But there are always new parents that try for the first time and get in the lottery. Crazy how it works which is why it is impossible to recruit. I know for elementary (k-5) the list can be as long as 1,000 on the waiting list and in high school, the list is usually 200-300 per grade. Again, impossible to recruit.
May not be true for your situation but my source was a parent of a player on one of the teams whose son did not have to go through lottery for the exact reason I stated. I trust he spoke truthfully on the situation to me as there was some interest in my child coming to play a sport there.
By the way he didn’t go..,
 
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FB is my Life

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This is from Fair Sports NC we site.

Mission and Vision

The playing field in NCHSAA sports is not level.

Traditional, fixed-boundary high schools, particularly rural schools in the 1A class, are being squeezed out and effectively excluded from competing for State Championships in many sports because of the rise charter, magnet, and non-boarding parochial schools. Among other things, these schools do not play by the same admissions rules as our traditional public schools.

The 1A-4A classifications are generally guided by (but not “bound” by) enrollment. Conventional wisdom is that larger schools, generally from larger, more densely-populated urban areas, have bigger and deeper talent pools to draw from than smaller, rural schools. On average, then, larger schools are going to field more competitive teams than smaller schools. Generally speaking, conventional wisdom is correct.

However, with different admissions standards and criteria, these small, typically-urban non-traditional schools’ sports teams are drawing from talent pools that are radically different from the communities our traditional rural 1A schools draw from. But because NCHSAA classifications are guided by enrollment, these non-traditional schools are classified as 1A.

The problem is clear: There are less than 600 students at East Carteret High School (for example) because that’s how many high school-aged kids live in and around Beaufort. There are less than 600 students at these non-traditional schools because that’s how many high school-aged kids in these larger, predominantly-urban and suburban areas have decided to attend, for whatever reason—athletics, academics, etc.

It’s no surprise to anyone, then, that teams made up of self-selected student-athletes from larger talent pools have dominated teams made up of student-athletes playing on the high school team from the small rural community where they live.

While the problem is clear, the solution is not. People in and out of the NCHSAA have attributed the organization’s inaction and indecision on this issue to a number of different complications, all boiling down to essentially one thing: Politics. Non-traditional schools are, by design, not like traditional schools. However, our legislature wants them treated “like everyone else.” The NCHSAA answers to our legislature. End of story.

Maybe.

Fair NC Sports is offering a democratic solution to a political hurdle. We want to organize and let our voices be heard at the local and county levels so that the NCHSAA, our legislature, and anyone else involved in the decision-making process knows that the 10-plus-year experiment of allowing non-traditional schools to effectively exclude traditional schools from competing for State Championships needs to end.

It is the NCHSAA’s duty and responsibility to provide governance and leadership with respect to this issue. We’re here to hold them accountable, one community at a time. Starting at the local and county levels, where our leaders and elected officials not only listen to us but also share our dissatisfaction, we can send a clear message to decision-makers at the NCHSAA and elsewhere: Make high school sports fair for everyone.
 
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Mhsneer

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You are hilarious! Were you alive from 2014-2017 when we went yearly to the Freedom Christmas tournament? Playing the defending 3A State Champs to OT one year, losing to a McDowell team that made it to the 3rd Rd of the 4A state playoffs in a battle of the unbeatens by 4. Playing high quality 3A Asheville area teams in Thanksgiving Tournaments and the yearly Coaches vs Cancer kickoff at UNC Asheville. We always played with WSP tough until they were able to throw in fresh legs from the end of their bench that were just as good as their starters. Your Eagles played at the Freedom Christmas tournament a couple of years while Avery played in it.
Avery county over the years has as good a talent pool in basketball as any school in wnc. They don’t always get the most out of that talent (except during palsgroves time) but they’ve had terrific talent for 30 plus years.
 

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