1A Is Henderson Collegiate a public school?

Discussion in '1A/2A/3A/4A Basketball' started by pantherfaithful1984, Feb 29, 2020.

  1. pantherfaithful1984

    pantherfaithful1984 Well-Known Member
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    Is Henderson Collegiate a public school?
     
  2. Sportsnut17

    Sportsnut17 Moderator
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    Public Charter
     
  3. Smctrain

    Smctrain Well-Known Member
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    So no they aren’t!! Lol
     
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  4. Dadof23

    Dadof23 Well-Known Member
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    Yes, just like everyone else in NCHSAA
     
  5. recycled2

    recycled2 Well-Known Member
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    Not everyone is public or charter. There are some privates also.
     
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  6. ObserveAndReport

    ObserveAndReport Well-Known Member
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    NCHSAA is open to public and parochial schools. Henderson Collegiate is a charter school, which in a nutshell means run by a private board but with public money, subject to state authorization, and no tuition. So they are considered public schools under DPI.
     
    6 ObserveAndReport, Mar 1, 2020
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2020
  7. Mhsneer

    Mhsneer Well-Known Member
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    Segregation today. It’s sad
     
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  8. Smctrain

    Smctrain Well-Known Member
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    No not even close to the traditional schools in the NCHSAA! Traditional schools don’t have the right of refusal to a student if their grades are bad or their test scores are low. Then they boast about the schools scores being higher than the surrounding public schools, well hell yeah they should be they get to cherry pick the students that are enrolled there.
     
  9. marinersgold

    marinersgold Well-Known Member
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    They recruit well.
     
  10. BK13T-$

    BK13T-$ Well-Known Member
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    Just like everybody else except the fact they follow different rules.
    Lol
     
  11. pantherfaithful1984

    pantherfaithful1984 Well-Known Member
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    How can they play a 35 game schedule and be considered a public school? I'm not sure where this is headed?
     
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  12. Mhsneer

    Mhsneer Well-Known Member
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    It’s squeezing out traditional 1a schools that work hard with kids from the time they’re in kindergarten until they graduate high school just to be competitive. Andrews boys are a great example a very small school with a really good coach and team. They have 300 kids? They can’t compete with schools cherry picking Athletes from other schools. Neither could Avery high when they lost to wsp every year. It’s a real shame
     
  13. pantherfaithful1984

    pantherfaithful1984 Well-Known Member
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    I don't understand why this is ok and accepted by the masses, if these type schools win a state championship it's tainted from the beginning and akin to the Astro's stealing signs in my book.
     
  14. ObserveAndReport

    ObserveAndReport Well-Known Member
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    Schools that don’t play football get 6 extra games and can start practice 2 weeks earlier.
     
  15. BK13T-$

    BK13T-$ Well-Known Member
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    Andrews has 200
     
  16. CP16

    CP16 Well-Known Member
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    The state messed up the extra games this year. Yes non-football schools are allowed 6 extra games for "revenue" the state says. The handbook clearly say these games can not count in the rankings. This year they where, which gave these school 6 extra games to raise or lower there rating. 6 more oppoents to have their opponents raise or lower HC ratings as well. I was told the state could not figure out how to drop them from the ratings data. SIMPLE DELETE THEM FROM MAXPREPS. On the day schools are allowed to play the first game everyone should be 0-0 on maxpreps. To this the state said if they delete them it would mess up the rankings and records of all the non-nchsaa schools they play. WHO CARES!
     
  17. Hon Dines

    Hon Dines Well-Known Member
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    That's correct BUT If you look at their schedule. They did not follow the NCHSAA rule with their schedule. NCHSAA messed up on this rule with Henderson Collegiate?
    I think Nov. 16th was when football playing schools started!
     
  18. ObserveAndReport

    ObserveAndReport Well-Known Member
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    Good catch, looking at 4.3.1 it looks like the extra games have to be between Oct. 30 and when football playing schools can start basketball games, which it lists as Nov. 18. There was a week or two where a bunch of games came off their MaxPreps page, only to be later put back on. Currently, I count 28 regular season games with four before the 18th. So I guess whether they went over depends on whether they had an endowment game.
     
  19. CP16

    CP16 Well-Known Member
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    When final adjusted maxpreps rankings where released on selection day their record on it was with 31 games. At the most 24 regular season and 3 conference tournament is what tradtional schools had to build their ratings.
    .
     
  20. Dadof23

    Dadof23 Well-Known Member
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    Andrews was beaten by Mitchel...another one of your "traditional" schools ...nice try
     
  21. Hon Dines

    Hon Dines Well-Known Member
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    Henderson Collegiate reported 21-10. That's 31 games and take away the 3 they played before Nov. 16th that's 28 games..SMH
     
  22. mbdfan

    mbdfan Well-Known Member
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    Ten years ago Nantahala with around 50 students lost in the regional semifinals by three points to Hendersonville (who had 763 students for the record). It may be one of the greatest achievements in modern NCHSAA athletics.
     
  23. ObserveAndReport

    ObserveAndReport Well-Known Member
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  24. ObserveAndReport

    ObserveAndReport Well-Known Member
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    I think that also highlights the double edged sword for traditional 1A schools...take charter schools out and the dividing line goes up. the people thinking it was great before charter schools forget what is was like dealing with Cummings, Thomasville, Jordan-Matthews, Maiden, Hendersonville etc in 1A. Pick your poison for a school like Andrews or North Edgecombe.
     
    24 ObserveAndReport, Mar 2, 2020
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2020
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  25. CP16

    CP16 Well-Known Member
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    Again my issue is the handbook clearly says these extra games do not count in the rankings. This year they did. BC..... see above. These extra games vs the likes of Mor Prep etc allowed them to gain points / ratings whatever you want to call that, other schools mostly traditional could not do that. Henderson has 31 on adjusted rankings, Chatham Charter 29 and Voyager 28. Again a traditional school who played the max of 24 plus a 3 game conference tournament would have 27 at the most.
     
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  26. ObserveAndReport

    ObserveAndReport Well-Known Member
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    I agree. It’s plain as day in the last sentence of the provision giving the extra games. I was just saying I’m not sure they overscheduled.
     
  27. mbdfan

    mbdfan Well-Known Member
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    I'd take losing to the Hendersonville's and Maiden's of the world 10 times out of 10 than dealing with basketball mills and "1A" charter schools that recruit and/or draw from giant metro areas. Hendersonville, Maiden, etc. may have a big advantage in raw numbers compared to most 1A's but at least they are traditional publics.
     
  28. ObserveAndReport

    ObserveAndReport Well-Known Member
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    I agree, but I don’t think that applies to all charter schools. Some are appropriate for 1A—Summit Charter in Cashiers only played a JV schedule this year, but will probably be in the Little Smoky soon, with 100 or so in the high school pulling from a sparsely populated area. I think that’ll probably be fair. Others have no business in 1A. Since ‘school choice’ is the the way N.C. is going, it seems we could come up with a system that takes into account the population of the pool of people with the option to choose a school.
     
    28 ObserveAndReport, Mar 2, 2020
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2020
  29. Dadof23

    Dadof23 Well-Known Member
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    I'm not here to argue or throw stones but it is the same argument every year once a "traditional" school doesn't make it. Honestly, rules of recruiting and transferring schools were made long before "nontraditional" schools came along. Hmm wonder why?
     
  30. ObserveAndReport

    ObserveAndReport Well-Known Member
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    I’ll give you that...before it was charter schools and magnet schools people would argue about districts with more open policies for out of district students. But since it’s now the same argument every year, doesn’t that indicate maybe we aren’t dealing with apples to apples?
     
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  31. Dadof23

    Dadof23 Well-Known Member
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    Honestly, I can see what some argue about. But for the most part, charter schools are accused of something they have nothing do to with. If a Charter school is being run properly, the word recruiting is a joke. The lottery in a school eliminates any type of recruiting going on at all (again, if the charter is being run properly...if not, they don't last). Kids can get on a list and hope and pray they get in but most of the time it doesn't work out. But again, most of these rules were put into place long before charters were even thought of so the problem lies within traditional schools as well.
     
  32. BlackCat93

    BlackCat93 Well-Known Member
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    If you have to meet a criteria of any kind or be put on a list, you are non traditional and need to be playing as such in another classification regardless of size.
     
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  33. gangsta8

    gangsta8 Well-Known Member
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    Henderson didn’t have a basketball program three years ago and went to state in year two and that’s not by coincidence either. They coaching these guys on travel teams and stacking them up. Why can’t all traditional 1A public schools be allowed to draw students within a 30 mile radius like charter schools since they participate in the 1A classification with 4A talent? These rules surrounding charter schools were set forth by our state legislature and not the NCHSAA. It’s not by coincidence that the past ten years Charter schools have won the 1A state championship in basketball, volleyball, golf, tennis, and cross country. Only sport they haven’t been able win a state championship in is football because football is not a year round sport nor is it travel ball like AAU.
     
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  34. Veejay4

    Veejay4 Well-Known Member
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    Can someone tell me what the difference is between 1A and 4A talent? I don't understand how classification determines talent level. Talent is talent and has no respect of classification. IJS. I've seen some 1A players (boys and girls) that would hand some kids their butts on a platter in 4A.
     
  35. Mhsneer

    Mhsneer Well-Known Member
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    More kids to choose from. If you can recruit those kids to a 1a school it’s better talent. If Mitchell drew kids from a 30 mile radius we could get kids from any county bordering us. McDowell included. Gives a 1a team more talent to choose from.
     
  36. Kadyn930

    Kadyn930 Member
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    Are any of the kids at Henderson reclass kids?
     
  37. Veejay4

    Veejay4 Well-Known Member
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    It's not better talent. You just have MORE talent to choose from. A kid attending a 1A school could be better than 12 kids on an entire 4A team. Is it that it's better talent or just more talent to choose from?

    Mt. Airy had a kid last year that was better than half the 4A teams I watched play. He was only one while the 4A teams had more kids that could play. That's not better talent it's just more talent. He could play on any 4A team in the state but that doesn't translate to 1A talent. Class is determined by enrollment not talent levels.

    Wake Forest doesn't recruit that same kid if he's 1A talent because he plays at Mt. Airy. Colleges and universities see talent only.

    I don't think it's done on purpose but sometimes the inferiority created toward smaller public schools is created by our narratives.
     
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  38. Sportsnut17

    Sportsnut17 Moderator
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    I don’t think reclassify is an option with NCHSAA. You have charter confused with private.
     
  39. ObserveAndReport

    ObserveAndReport Well-Known Member
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    You can only reclass in NCISAA. They do have a couple who started out at other schools (Franklinton, most notably).

    I think you're right that talent is talent--Montrezl Harrell and Bam Adebayo are both killing it in the NBA and came from traditional 1A high schools in NC. But I think a 4A school is statistically more likely to have more size, depth, etc. across the board. They'll also have more kids who specialize, since at a traditional 1A there is a pressure for your better athletes to play something every season. So larger schools' kids--even if not more naturally gifted--will sometimes be more polished.
     
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  40. BK13T-$

    BK13T-$ Well-Known Member
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    So you think Uwharrie charter had 11 state ranked wrestlers this year by chance? Or 10 last year or 11 two years ago? Out of 14 weight classes. Thats more than any 1a school in the state. They are a newly formed school. Statistically its almost impossible for a new school to that. I understand your a charter guy. Admit your advantage like others have. I understand u want to keep your advantage but dont worry nothing will be done to your ALL STAR TEAMS.
     
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