It was a scrimmage. Both teams played 2's and 3's a ton. The MC team today looks very little like the team that played in the first 4 games of the year. Minimum of 8 players in different positions than where they were after the Catholic game. .
Forsyth county
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Every year half you guys start posting this crap about Charlotte vs Forsyth or Charlotte vs Guilford. Who Cares! There are about two or three dominate teams in Charlotte (Butler,MC) just as there are two dominate teams in Guilford (Northern/Dudley) The rest of the teams on any given year can match up really well with each other and its a toss up as to who could win those games. What's sad is a few posters come on here spewing a bunch of BS and everyone bashes those teams that some idiot claims to be with.
There are great teams in Charlotte and like others have said they have a bunch of talent to pull from! Charlotte fields over half of all the 4AA schools every year and should be favored to win the title. Forsyth has two and Guilford has two.
I will say this I would take that Northern Guilford team from a couple years back with TJ Logan and put them up against any team in the state 4AA that year and it would of been a great game! Lol
That's for my man GSO!
This post was edited on 11/27 11:04 PM by Warhead1
There are great teams in Charlotte and like others have said they have a bunch of talent to pull from! Charlotte fields over half of all the 4AA schools every year and should be favored to win the title. Forsyth has two and Guilford has two.
I will say this I would take that Northern Guilford team from a couple years back with TJ Logan and put them up against any team in the state 4AA that year and it would of been a great game! Lol
This post was edited on 11/27 11:04 PM by Warhead1
I'm sure MC has improved as this year has progressed and I'm sure MC lost a lot of talent from their 2013 version but don't you think Dudley was operating under the exact same circumstances. They lost a lot off their 2013 version and they improved as the year progressed too. Now trying to quantify who improved the most and things like that would be hard to do I think. Now with that said I understand and agree with your premise of Meck Co football being the best. Football is the sport where shear numbers matter most!!! And you guys have the numbers!!! I'm a Forsyth Co guy and our system is too screwed up to field a top flight program with the absence of feeder schools and no middle school football. The culture in our county is bad with parents and kids wanting "success" NOW and if they're not HAPPY they leave for so called greener pastures. But we have only two 4AA schools and unless they run the Meck gauntlet, we will not get your respect and that's wrong. Now this year we(Forsyth) can't say much at all!! Losing to Hough and Providence mutes our arguement since they're not Indy, Butler or MC. But losing to those three over the years just puts us in line with the rest of the state, Charlotte schools included!!
uttb01- It was a scrimmage and the first one of the year for that matter. Very hard to figure out much from it. MC played in two- one against Dudley and one against Scotland. Neither told us much and frankly talking about Dudley at this point of the 2014 season is really not of much consequence. They didn't win a single game this year. Mallard Creek is one win away from its 4th straight West regional appearance.
As far as Forsyth County and respect I think that needs to be directed at the Forsyth County posters who continually use stuff like " Best in state", or " Cant be stopped". Its when we see those things we start laughing. Its not so much that they get beat its how they get beat. Usually in embarrassing fashion and to be 100% accurate a Forsyth county team hasn't even faced the best team in Meck in two years.( maybe Hough)
B&G I understand that some of the West Forsyth posters can get a little excited about their team and can make some far fetched stHappy Thanksgiving lady to you and your family!! atements about their team or teams they've played. But don't lump the entire county in or even mention Guilford. How about calling out just West Forsyth!! If Reagan beats Catholic that's no indictment on Meck Co nor is the converse true. Last year Tabor beat Butler but that didn't mean Forsyth is better than Meck. I don't think any county could beat Meck in a top 5 challenge format ala ACC/Big Ten in basketball. You guys have the numbers. But if you allowed areas to pool together to match y'all's numbers your find areas a lot more competitive.
Butler has always been around 2,100 students. Not a lot larger than many other 4AA schools. Providence is 2,100. Vance and Rocky River are 1,800. School sizes in Meck were down some until last year when there was a pick up in enrollment again. I think the demographics are as important as school size and what they player has had available before he ever gets to high school.
From speaking with a school administrator with ties to Guilford County they think that some changes in policy are going to curb some of the ways students end up at school outside of their home district. That could be a game changer negatively for some schools and positively for others.
From speaking with a school administrator with ties to Guilford County they think that some changes in policy are going to curb some of the ways students end up at school outside of their home district. That could be a game changer negatively for some schools and positively for others.
They had a couple of games against two 4AA teams in 2012, Page (14-7) and NW Guilford (14-0). Revenge game for Norther after losing to Page's title team in 2011 35-14. All of NW's losses that season were tight.Originally posted by Warhead1:
I will say this I would take that Northern Guilford team from a couple years back with TJ Logan and put them up against any team in the state 4AA that year and it would of been a great game! LolThat's for my man GSO!
This post was edited on 11/27 11:04 PM by Warhead1
Couple of teams I would have liked to see them against New Bern, Porter Ridge, and Havelock.
Havelock and Northern are a perfect example of why I am against sub-divided playoffs especially in 2A and 3A. 250 student maximum difference between the four title game participants in 3A in 2012.
Have never said anything about Guilford county and there have been others over the years that have gone crazy with the Forsyth county kool aid. Most end up disappearing after getting killed. It was a East Forsyth fan who started this thread?? Claimed East Forsyth got cocky because they wanted MC or Butler. My question then as is my question now is how is it possible for any Forsyth county team to overlook a Meck county team? Providence had lost to Catholic, Summerville, SC and south meck. At least 2 of the 3 are better than East Forsyth and yet they were cocky?? Please.
The argument is frankly old and the only time it gets brought up much is when a Forsyth county poster starts talking crazy which they do EVERY YEAR.
B&G, I gotcha and like Ive said before the football gets better the closer you get to Charlotte. Those outside Charlotte I believe know this too and when they start feeling good about their team they know Charlotte is looming. So they must convince themselves and anyone who will listen that they can compete. Couple of years ago East was very competitive and maybe this years Reagan team can slip up on Catholic. We in Forsyth know that the road to the ring goes through Charlotte. And no one wants to admit inferiority but we have a ways to go but I think the gap is closing. However East and West this year worked against that. B&G would you not consider Providence win an upset or do you think that if they played seven times Providence would win four? From folks who were there I didn't get the impression that they lost to a better team. They got beat and there were something's they failed to do.
Have seen neither team play. My gut feeling looking at scores and seeing West Forsyth and Reagan play earlier was that East Forsyth was overrated mostly because of their defense. I drove up to see EF and WF play early in the year but the weather was terrible and I decided to head back to Charlotte. I will get a first hand look at Providence later tonight.
I know that few coaches do more with less than Hardin does and I am far from shocked that he was able to make a ballgame of it. lets be honest. If EF was truly ready to play MC/Butler/Hough or Indy they would have taken a that Providence team at home to the woodshed. Missing there 3 year starter at QB, their leading tackler, banged up on the Oline and their home run threat Mattar is litererally fighting through the pain of a spinal disease. Healthy they were the 3rd place team in their conf??
I think most people in Charlotte right now would put Providence 7th , maybe even 8th in Meck county. Now .. on any given night?? Who knows but they are far from the top 3 or 4.
.
Catholic is a tougher call because they are all about matchups and who can handle there offense. I don't think Catholic would beat Indy but I do think they would beat Hough. Hough just beat Indy by 13pts. Gun to my head I would put Catholic 4th behind MC, Indy, Vance but the top 5 could very well be interchangeable with MC being the toughest out because of experience and the fact that I think they can beat you pounding it or passing it and the defense keeps getting better.
This post was edited on 11/28 1:42 PM by Blue and Gold22
I saw Catholic play the first half against MC before it was suspended. MC lit them up like they did last year but I have seen enough of Catholic over the years to have a good feel for who beats them and who doesn't. The Reagan team that played at Clemmons the night I saw them isn't within 3 td's of Catholic. For all the talk of how good Reagan is on offense they scored one TD on offense that night though they moved the ball very well between the 20's.
Now- to be fair, Easter had probably 7 drops and 2 were by Belk on what would have been walk in scores that night. I expect Raegan to play much better tonight and I expect them to score some on CC but if they needed 50 to beat AL Brown then Reagan has a problem because Catholic is much,much better both on offense and on defense.
You beat Catholic on first down. If you get them 2nd or 3rd and 8 or more then you win. If its 3rd and 2 its a long night and Catholic makes very few mistakes so you cant count on penalties to help you down and distance.
So it sounds like you have Catholic and it may very well go that way. But I think Reagan has a punchers chance and if they win I wouldn't be shocked. But I still wouldn't scream Forsyth over Meck no matter the result. I agree with your way to stop Catholic cause I have seen them before but not this years version. What I like about Reagan is they aren't the typical Forsyth team running on 1st and 2nd and then throw on 3rd. I feel coach McGee has a diverse offense and it gives him a shot. But all in all B&G we know Meck is on top but we are gunning for ya!!
B&G is dead on about Catholic being all about matchups. That why he listed Catholic ahead of Butler and behind Mallard Creek, even though Butler beat Mallard Creek once this year.
Butler's soft run D would have a heck of time getting Catholic off the field, and even though Catholic's D would have a snowball's chance in Hades of slowing down the Butler offense, that wouldn't matter if Ratliff-Williams and company spent most of the game on the sidelines, which they probably would.
The teams that Catholic has trouble with are the teams that can physically match them up front along the defensive front so that Catholic can't get any push. They don't ever seem to have much of a Plan B if Plan A isn't working. There are not many of those types of defenses in the state, so Catholic rolls against nearly everyone they play. However, when they do run into that type of defense, then they tend to struggle to score at all. Catholic has been hammered both years that they have played Mallard Creek, and it's solely because their oline can't push MC around like they do most teams, and they are not going to dazzle you with finesse if they can't run over you.
Just my opinion, but Reagan does not strike me as having that kind of defense.
Like I said its all about first down with Catholic. They get 5 or more then you not only have to play the run but now the little TE waggles that they sneak behind you and some of the reverses start to work and just when you spread yourself out a bit then the dive goes for 50 yards. It happens a ton when you get tired which is another advantage the MC has over everyone else. They can keep bringing big bodies.
I love watching catholic play football. I think a Catholic/Butler game would look a lot like Butler/Richmond.
Could Reagan win?? Sure they could but that pass happy offense can play right into Catholic's hands if Easter is off just a little. Couple 3 and outs and you might not see the ball for a quarter. Is late or a little behind like he was against WF and its a pick and a short field.
I also think its worth mentioning that every single kid on Catholic expects to play and win in these games because they are in them every year. This is Reagan's first bite at this apple and when you are tight and cant rely on a running game its very , very tough to execute. Not like playing Crest, Dudley or Northern Guilford who play for titles every year.
I love watching catholic play football. I think a Catholic/Butler game would look a lot like Butler/Richmond.
Could Reagan win?? Sure they could but that pass happy offense can play right into Catholic's hands if Easter is off just a little. Couple 3 and outs and you might not see the ball for a quarter. Is late or a little behind like he was against WF and its a pick and a short field.
I also think its worth mentioning that every single kid on Catholic expects to play and win in these games because they are in them every year. This is Reagan's first bite at this apple and when you are tight and cant rely on a running game its very , very tough to execute. Not like playing Crest, Dudley or Northern Guilford who play for titles every year.
Hokie I agree with you and B&G for Ive seen Catholic in the past. Most of us Forsyth folks would reasonably concede that the very best team in Meck will be a severe problem for us. Heck the number two team maybe very difficult for us to handle. What's hard for us to concede is that our dry best can't play with your 3-8 teams. B&G our kids know and hear the "Meck superiority" and are anxious to dispell it!! When the brackets come out teams search for when they will run into a Meck team. I'm not an East Forsyth guy but I run into some of the kids at the barbershop and they were very excited for a shot at the Butler/MC winner at home! Now they shouldn't overlook anyone but I understand how it can happen.
What you describe here is a coaching issue. Its Willert's staffs responsibility to have everyone focused for a 2nd round opponent and let the kids at the barbershop know to be carful what you ask for. MC was ripe for the taking early because they were young and it took awhile for Palmieri and staff to figure out who they wanted to be and where the pieces needed to be but since the Vance game very quietly they have started to look a little like last year. Not quite as lgood on defense but pretty lethal on the offensive side. Next year?? 8 back on offense 6 back on defense.
Well my first post in a year or so, but very well said Cav!
This post was edited on 11/28 7:39 PM by KiltedDeac
This post was edited on 11/28 7:39 PM by KiltedDeac
I agree honestly the coaches/ players at east messed up they didn't focus on the game they had and were too focused on the future. Not an excuse just saying what I saw. Next year for East Forsyth is going to be interesting. East Forsyth's defense is going to be an amazing their JV Defense this year is basically their starting defense next year plus you add the current varsity players to the JV squad moving up Madison cone(4 acc offers), an some amazing defensive line man already on varsity. East defense will be really good. Their offense on the other hand is a toss up it's going to be amazing or it's going to suck.
Nothing wrong with cheering for your teams and hoping they do well. I thought West Forsyth was very good last year and I thought they would give Butler a game. I was wrong. I think the thing that you have to look at is not the skill players that everyone falls in love with but what they have up front. Can they hang in physically.
I saw this Providence team tonight that beat East forsyth. Nice team, fought hard but they were so physically outmatched it wasn't even fair. Creek scored the first time 4 times they had the ball and providence didn't cross midfield in the first half
Mallard Creek was bigger, faster and stronger at every position on the field except punter and kicker. Had Providence not come out an played inspired defense in the 3rd quarter for about 8 minutes this think would have been 75-0.
So when I hear East forsyth or Reagan or West Forsyth or whomever are looking for a shot at mallard Creek I just chuckle. Mallard Creek is 4-5 TD's better than any of these teams. Its not even close
There's nothing about the Triad perception department that can't be fixed with a couple of quality wins, but here's the thing though...NO ONE from Meck Co is going to respect an outsider until that someone steps up and beats one of our top teams on the field. BUT...when that happens, than you don't have to start threads anymore trying to convince everyone that you are legit. Others will start those threads for you. Others will step up and speak on your behalf. Others will defend you from the inevitable detractors. And one day when you kick this state's a$$es long enough and hard enough, then there will be non-stop threads started by the rest of the state on every message board in the state talking about how you're not really all that good, and how any of their little teams that no one's ever heard of could whip you if you weren't too scared to play them. Yes, Meck Co fans hear it all.
That's the progression, but the start of that progression is expanding your schedules to play top competition, then adapting your schemes to be competitive against top competition, and finally, beating some top competition. Forsyth Co schools really need to go back to step #1 and start from there. The rest is doable if you take the right steps, but I'm not really seeing the proper foundation being laid for future dominance. That's just my opinion, of course.
That's the progression, but the start of that progression is expanding your schedules to play top competition, then adapting your schemes to be competitive against top competition, and finally, beating some top competition. Forsyth Co schools really need to go back to step #1 and start from there. The rest is doable if you take the right steps, but I'm not really seeing the proper foundation being laid for future dominance. That's just my opinion, of course.
Yeah I'm talking about next season. But you're telling me butler, Indy and all the other teams that's season is over there players and coaches aren't already thinking about next season either?
http://www.journalnow.com/sports/prepzone/football/raiders-run-ends/article_35a0b416-777f-11e4-9dde-0b2380c5517f.html
http://www.journalnow.com/sports/prepzone/football/raiders-run-ends/article_35a0b416-777f-11e4-9dde-0b2380c5517f.html
http://www.journalnow.com/sports/prepzone/football/raiders-run-ends/article_35a0b416-777f-11e4-9dde-0b2380c5517f.html
Fellas (Hokie, B&G and even Btango) I'm a Carver guy and Forsyth County guy. I agree with your progression of building a sustainable program. I'd like your thoughts on how my 2A school can do the same. We were once a true power before the powers that be (school board) hit us with a political dagger but we still play decent football. We would like to go through the aforementioned progression but "power teams" won't play us cause we are 2A and they say they have nothing to gain. We play Dudley every year and they play us due to the history and tradition between the skills pre-dating integration. We played West Charlotte in a home and home in coach Knotts last year but we were 3A. Not that we've been dominating 2A but our coach feels like you Hokie and wants to play the big boys. He says he's willing to take the whippings but he'd at least know where the bar is. But like I said the big boys tell us that we'd hurt their strength of schedule just bcause we are 2A. What would you fellas recommend.
Forsyth County needs to step out of their comfort zone and play more quality teams, to better prepare them for the Playoffs. It's the same story every year. One of their teams is selected as a 1 seed the last 2 years. Which somehow gives them confidence? They actually start believing the Hype? Why? Look at the schedule. The only way a Forsyth County school get's to a State Championship game, is through purchasing a ticket. It is now evident who they have coming back is irrelevent. None of the teams are prepared for Charlotte teams come playoff time.
Assuming you are talking about carver.
They already play some big programs, no doubt dominate the teams they play. Like the Charlotte power house situation you have to beat a good program to get respect. thats where you have to look at who you play you play Mount Tabor not exactly an amazing team this year but if you beat them then people are gonna notice, that's true with any program.
Just beat the power houses on your schudule now and someone is going to notice.
They already play some big programs, no doubt dominate the teams they play. Like the Charlotte power house situation you have to beat a good program to get respect. thats where you have to look at who you play you play Mount Tabor not exactly an amazing team this year but if you beat them then people are gonna notice, that's true with any program.
Just beat the power houses on your schudule now and someone is going to notice.
Sure they are and sure you can but the hyperbole is what cracks me up. Our defense will be AMAZING, because of our AMAZING JV team and the AMAZING defensive lineman we already have. Really?? Compared to what exactly.
We lost because of lack of focus??
You lost because you just weren't that good. You beat a lot of teams that weren't good and you thought you were good but its just fools gold. Look at what has happened the last 3 weeks. West Forsyth gets killed, HPC gets killed. You guys lose to a team that was missing its leading tackler, and had a QB who had not played QB at a high school level before. They couldn't even get past the 50 when it mattered last night and yet somehow they beat the AMAZING defense.
Then- The cherry on the sundae . after listening to how good the Reagan offense was they score exactly zero at home against Catholic. AMAZING
I am talking about Carver and last year we beat Tabor and this year we had too many turnovers and we lost. But we had 10 games this year and couldn't find anyone to play for an 11th game. East won't play us and hasn't since 1997!! And Im not insinuating fear they don't want to play for they feel we may recruit their kids. (A legitimate fear) We thought we had Charlotte Christian in week two and we got out of our game versus Reynolds(whose been down) but Christian found another opponent and we couldn't find anyone to replace them. We challenge ourselves with Dudley and would like to play some other "big boys" but it's tough to schedule them.
So should the kids go into the games thinking, well gee that was nice of a season, but we still aren't that good because we haven't played any charlotte schools. Oh well, it was fun while it lasted. Arrogance is one thing, but they should believe in themselves and their chance to win.
NOOOOOOO! I used a Charlotte reference because, it's usually a Charlotte team that knocks them out. That's not arrogance, that's a fact. Don't spin it. Playing Charlotte schools would not be the determining factor on how good you are either. Damn sure wouldn't hurt. Also you said it! Not me. You're not that good.
Same road map for Carver, just with different teams. You guys already have the one big marquee matchup against Dudley, and having one top notch 4A on the schedule is plenty good enough for a 2A squad to show you where you stand in the big picture. Dudley will expose weaknesses and show unexpected strengths better than any other team you play, and everyone needs at least one game like that on their schedule each year to help the coaches set the game plan for what they will work on to improve throughout the remainder of the season.
The rest of the OOC schedule should be filled out with this year's 2A and 3A state quarter and semi-finalists (or one game against a big local rival - regardless of class - for those teams that have them), and I'd be on the phone harassing every one of them until I found enough teams willing to sign on.
Carver's target schedule:
1) one game against Dudley or a contending 4A equivalent (and no, that does NOT mean West Forsyth or Reagan...those are "false security" opponents and don't really improve your program).
2) one game against your big rival, if applicable
3) the remainder against the likes of Mount Pleasant, Reidsville, Shelby, East Lincoln, Monroe, Franklin, Crest , Forestview, South Point, East Rowan, West Rowan, Asheville, Weddington, Cuthbertson and Northern Guilford.
Schedule these teams. Tweak what you do until you can beat a bunch (if not most) of these teams. Go win yourself some trophies.
I don't know much about Carver. never have really followed them. I believe playing good competition makes you better and always have but beyond that I think Forsyth county has issues you have already spoken to which are even bigger problems. Youth football being the biggest.
The biggest issues I see in Forsyth as well as Wake county is lack of development with big bodies and QB skill set. They all have athletes but in the end if you are a stellar athlete with elite size and speed then it doesn't take great development to excel at the high school level. RB's, and Wr's along with DB's and LB's to a degree just out athlete everyone else.
Line play especially offense and QB play is something that gets developed young and continues to get better as you grow physically. Beyond that I believe weight training and strength play a big roll in the disparity. Meck county always seems to have big guys that are stronger and fast guys that are bigger 1-30 on the roster. Look at the Catholic line from last night. Big and skilled from years of development in that Catholic program .I Wasn't there but I already know they just moved the Reagan kids to the side.
The one thing I notice in nearly all the teams Mallard Creek plays is that their safties look like other teams LB's and their LB's look like other teams lineman. I stood out again to me last night. Providence had two kids playing on the interior that were roughly 5'11 and 190-200lbs. Those two kids never make the 2-deep on Mallard Creek and you don't even see many kids like that on the sidelines. I guarantee ever kid on the MC team was in the weightroom this morning.
Bigger and faster wins.
Thanks Hokie for genuine good advice and best believe I will take your thought to our coach and athletic director. I truly believe you fellas to be good guys and I don't mind good discussion and even good banter/trash talk with knowledgable good folks. Normally I'd root against your Meck Co squads but I'm noticing that you guys are the only teams left standing. And I always root for the west so good luck Meck Co in representing in the title games!!
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