Hokie Shut up , you know nothing repeated violators? First off get your facts right. Dudley always show class and respect to the opposing team. For you to say they repeat violators is BS Dudley doesnt need to cheat to win games or feel the need to have players play JV and varsity games, the situaton is my cousin got hurt and for two plays they ranned another player on the field that played JV to complete the last two plays, so your wack a## attempt to tarnish our coaches and our program wont work ...hell the game was well in hand against Southeast... anyway lets roll HP Central!!
Dudley?
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I hate this rule. But it maybe more to this, but I think the punishment needs to be a fine or something. I think Hpc will beat Southeast anyway.
I hope it isnt true, but my sources in the area which I trust to the end said that SE Guilford knew about what would happen if reported on a Monday. This is a black eye for SEG more than it is for Dudley. Dudley runs a fine football program, you will not find a classier bunch of players, coaches, and fans than at Dudley and I experienced that first hand last season.
Guys, this exact same thing happened at Northern Guilford last year. Junior played down. They aren't supposed to dress, but where the NCHSAA really comes down is if the kid gets in the game. Northern self reported, and a day later, NW Guilford's coaches approached the AD to tell them they were going to report. The situation at Northern was a kid running down on kickoff at the end of the game and then another that took a knee at QB. Coaches just scanning the sideline for someone who works hard and doesn't get to play and chance to get on the field.
I seriously doubt there was any ill-intent on the Dudley coaching staff's part. Sucks that this happened so late into the season and cost them so much for such a simple mistake if that were the only issue. It happened early at Northern and was self reported as soon as it was caught. Being turned in by someone else, probably didn't make things any better either.
Sucks for the kids... It really does.
I seriously doubt there was any ill-intent on the Dudley coaching staff's part. Sucks that this happened so late into the season and cost them so much for such a simple mistake if that were the only issue. It happened early at Northern and was self reported as soon as it was caught. Being turned in by someone else, probably didn't make things any better either.
Sucks for the kids... It really does.
These aren't my facts. They are being reported by various media outlets and by various people with inside knowledge in the twitterverse.
If even half of what I'm reading is true, then this SEG forfeit will only be the first of many more to come.
Maybe your coach should grab a rulebook and read what's inside it?
Wow this is massive news for the 4a state playoffs.
At this point, you can't reseed. That would change matchups and what not and it simply wouldn't be fair to other squads.
Send them on the road? Maybe. I don't claim to have the answers.
Very very unfair for those kids. Though as a North Davidson fan, the competitive side of me is thankful, because I want no part of those panthers.
At this point, you can't reseed. That would change matchups and what not and it simply wouldn't be fair to other squads.
Send them on the road? Maybe. I don't claim to have the answers.
Very very unfair for those kids. Though as a North Davidson fan, the competitive side of me is thankful, because I want no part of those panthers.
South east intentionally reported this on Monday they didnt want to play us again in the playoffs
This post was edited on 11/11 1:03 PM by DHS06CENTER69
This post was edited on 11/11 1:03 PM by DHS06CENTER69
They wouldn't have because Catholic would've ENDED them in round 2. Now if they get through HP Central we will destroy the Falcons for the D BOYZ. I just cannot imagine what SEG/Dudley will be like last yr....that will be hostile
Not true Cougs, it wasn't discovered until Monday. Again, it sucks for the kids, no doubt. But how long can Dudley continue to ignore the rules like hokie posted until something is finally done. If GCS goes digging deeper into the going ons of not just the football program but other programs at Dudley, then they will find A LOT more issues than a junior dressing for 2 games in 1 week. Ask SW Guilford, Southern Guilford, Ragsdale and Grimsley about where some of the best players in their athletic programs have gone.
As always I hate it for the kids, due to they had no idea what was going on, and we all know they worked hard to get to the playoffs. But, people why is it when the rules are broken, some tend to get all upset??? They were put in place for everyone to follow. And the 8quater rule was actually, meant for the 1A/2A schools anyway due to small numbers. Hey, check around the state and you'll find that other schools that broke the same rule, it cost them a game or two and therefore, changing their W/L record and a chance at the playoffs. So, Dudley is not on that boat by themselves. And as for SEG, who over there knows all the players at Dudley, plus why even put a Jr. on the JV??
As always I hate it for the kids, due to they had no idea what was going on, and we all know they worked hard to get to the playoffs. But, people why is it when the rules are broken, some tend to get all upset??? They were put in place for everyone to follow. And the 8quater rule was actually, meant for the 1A/2A schools anyway due to small numbers. Hey, check around the state and you'll find that other schools that broke the same rule, it cost them a game or two and therefore, changing their W/L record and a chance at the playoffs. So, Dudley is not on that boat by themselves. And as for SEG, who over there knows all the players at Dudley, plus why even put a Jr. on the JV??
I pretty sure it has to be MORE than than JUST this game. If it was only the SEG game, then you would only forfeit that game. By being KICKED OUT of the playoffs, leaves one to only to believe it will be MULTIPLE games that this occurred in. So, the fact that SEG might have been the one to turn them in, just open the door to the bigger problem. Dudley has too many athletes to have to use a 11th grader on both nights.
This is incorrect. Once seeding is set on Monday morning, if you are found to have a violation and you have to forfeit a regular season game you are also declared in eligible for the playoffs. Had this been reported on Saturday or Sunday then Dudley would still be in playoffs cause brackets were not totally final yet.
Re: Dudley?r
If anybody feels this rule is stup I'd and it needs to be changed please call this number and speak to ms tucker
919 240 7401 tell her how u feel and how u can ruin a season for 2 plays when the game is over
if they want make the boyz play on the road that's ok but plz dont take the playoffs away just think about the kids
This post was edited on 11/11 2:08 PM by DHS06CENTER69
If anybody feels this rule is stup I'd and it needs to be changed please call this number and speak to ms tucker
919 240 7401 tell her how u feel and how u can ruin a season for 2 plays when the game is over
if they want make the boyz play on the road that's ok but plz dont take the playoffs away just think about the kids
This post was edited on 11/11 2:08 PM by DHS06CENTER69
South east reported it on purpose after the brackets were made
the only the playoffs were taken was the fact that the incident was reported after the seedings were official and SE knew this so the a**hole making false accusations about my former coach and my great alum needs to be stoned
the only the playoffs were taken was the fact that the incident was reported after the seedings were official and SE knew this so the a**hole making false accusations about my former coach and my great alum needs to be stoned
Was not a good look for SE. That maybe the reason they don't do too well in the playoffs. A TOTAL ithc move by the staff. Point 1. They will get the win, but it won't change their seeding. So, why do something that can't help you but will hurt the kids? Well there will be a game played next year!!! If it were me... There would be a price to pay. Hang 100 on em and let the little itches cry cause the don't have the out they did this year. I will be at that one next year for sure......
I am not a big NCHSAA fan but in this case they are correct in what they are doing because they are simply following the rule. Everyone who says they hate the rule and that the NCHSAA should give them a loss and let them continue on or the rule sucks and the rule should be banned are blaming everything except the person or people responsible.. First of all my question is why (in a program as big as the one at Dudley -who probably has 120-130 kids on both teams) do they need a junior dressing on Thursday night for a JV game. If the coaches dressed him for depth (which I doubt) then they are familiar (I would think) with the 8 quarter rule and the paper work involved to 8 quarter a player. They know better than just to dress him without going through the proper procedure. I certainly hope that the SE coaches did not know about this and held it knowing that they would use it to knock Dudley out of the playoffs. The fact remains that regardless of the circumstances rules are made for everybody. To blame the rule is ridiculous. To blame the NCHSAA is ridiculous. To blame SE is also equally ridiculous. The Dudley coaches are the only ones anyone can blame. To allow them to play would be like saying, "Go Ahead Coaches. Do Whatever You Want To Do Because Rules Don't Matter". What is good for one is good for all others. We cannot simply follow the rules we want to follow and disregard the rest. We cannot simply throw out the rules we do not like because pretty soon there would be no rules.
newbie
I pretty sure it has to be MORE than than JUST this
game. If it was only the SEG game, then you would only forfeit that
game.
It apparently (I read this on here) was only discovered on Mon. I hope this is true because I would hate to see someone so vindictive that they knew about it on Fri. or Sat. but waited unti Mon. to turn it in. If it had been discovered on Fri., Sat., or Sun. and SE had reported it then the playoff schedule could have been readjusted, but being that it occurred on Mon. there is no way for this to happen. Coaches spend all weekend (after they see the final pairings) to prepare for that first game. As a FB coach I would not want to be told on Mon. or Tue. that I had a different opponent. The timing of the reporting made all the difference in the world. I agree with you on why did they even need for this kid to be a JV player as well as a varsity player.
I pretty sure it has to be MORE than than JUST this
game. If it was only the SEG game, then you would only forfeit that
game.
It apparently (I read this on here) was only discovered on Mon. I hope this is true because I would hate to see someone so vindictive that they knew about it on Fri. or Sat. but waited unti Mon. to turn it in. If it had been discovered on Fri., Sat., or Sun. and SE had reported it then the playoff schedule could have been readjusted, but being that it occurred on Mon. there is no way for this to happen. Coaches spend all weekend (after they see the final pairings) to prepare for that first game. As a FB coach I would not want to be told on Mon. or Tue. that I had a different opponent. The timing of the reporting made all the difference in the world. I agree with you on why did they even need for this kid to be a JV player as well as a varsity player.
jreynolds13, would it be the correct thing to do to not turn them in if you knew they had violated a rule? Would it be OK for me to see something that I knew was wrong and simply look the other way. I understand what you are saying, but right is right and wrong is wrong. We teach our kids to always tell the truth and use the phrase The Truth Shall Set You Free, but we choose not to live by those standards. To me the correct thing would have been for the SE HC to have called the DHS HC and told him what he knew and the Dudley HC should have self reported.
If this all holds up, would this make Ragsdale the first 4A #16 seed team to advance to the 2nd round?
After hearing about this, I wonder what life was like before "the eight quarter rule." I know Earl Vaughan from the Fayetteville Observer despises the rule. I think what blows my mind is how it seems to be used or abused. I think if a freshmen team or JV player once moves up to varsity, he should not be able to step back down to the freshmen team or JV. Also, a freshman, sophomore or even a junior starts on varsity should not be sent sent down to JV or even the freshmen team if such a team is available. I probably don't understand all this eight quarter rule business, but then again, I doubt even the coaches understand.
This is not an 8 qtr rule violation. That is only for FR and SO players. And trust me, coaches know that rule foraward and backwards. This is 4 JRs that dressed Thurs and Fri nights in the same week. No gray area. No interpretation. It's not allowed.
Feel bad for the Dudley players, not the coaches. They know better, or should anyway. Ragsdale players benefit the most. They get a Friday night off and can go scout next week's competition.
I hate it for Dudley too. Great program ... great kids and staff. BUT --- the rule is black and white.
How can anyone expect them to change it NOW ???
It was put in place for a reason, and now that it's effecting a team, folks are calling for a change in mid-stream.
It doesn't work like that. If the NCHSAA changed their stance now -- you'd have a mutiny and chaos. Why have rules established if you are not going to be made to adhere to them???
It may change next year, but they can't change them this year...The NCHSAA would lose all credibility if they did.
This post was edited on 11/11 4:13 PM by flag_em
How can anyone expect them to change it NOW ???
It was put in place for a reason, and now that it's effecting a team, folks are calling for a change in mid-stream.
It doesn't work like that. If the NCHSAA changed their stance now -- you'd have a mutiny and chaos. Why have rules established if you are not going to be made to adhere to them???
It may change next year, but they can't change them this year...The NCHSAA would lose all credibility if they did.
This post was edited on 11/11 4:13 PM by flag_em
So Beamer what would be the correct way to handle this? if they re-drew the pairings that would not be fair to any of the other 15 teams in their bracket because the coaches have spent from sat. afternoon until today preparing for a specific team. Would it be fair to these coaches and their kids to all of a sudden learn on Tue. afternoon (many probably practiced this morning) that they now had to all of a sudden get ready to play a different team. Do you understand how many hours coaches put into watching game videos of their opponents and how many hours they meet to formulate a total game plan for their opponent? Now all of a sudden you want them to get ready in two days. Not feasible.
After hearing about this, I wonder what life was like before "the eight quarter rule." I know Earl Vaughan from the Fayetteville Observer despises the rule.
Earl is not a FB coach trying to make sure he has enough kids to play on a Fri. night either. It is a good rule for schools who all of a sudden have a lot of injuries and several kids cannot play. It is a good rule if you need extra bodies for depth. It is an easy rule if you follow the guidelines and keep up with the number of quarters a kid plays. But as has been established this is not an 8 quarter rule violation. It is a simple matter of FB coaches allowing a Jr. to play in two games in one week. Everybody know this is not allowed. Everybody wants to blame everything and everybody except the one person who is ultimately responsible and ths person would be the HC.
Earl is not a FB coach trying to make sure he has enough kids to play on a Fri. night either. It is a good rule for schools who all of a sudden have a lot of injuries and several kids cannot play. It is a good rule if you need extra bodies for depth. It is an easy rule if you follow the guidelines and keep up with the number of quarters a kid plays. But as has been established this is not an 8 quarter rule violation. It is a simple matter of FB coaches allowing a Jr. to play in two games in one week. Everybody know this is not allowed. Everybody wants to blame everything and everybody except the one person who is ultimately responsible and ths person would be the HC.
It's kind of ridiculous to be upset with SEG. Be upset with the Dudley coaches for not preventing it or reporting it on their own, but you can't blame SEG for Dudley breaking the rules. Oh "waaahhh they waited til Monday..." well how long was Dudley going to wait before they self reported?
TGT we are all speculating when we answer this. My guess is they could have handled this the same way they handle schools who violate these types of rules which would be (my guess only) that they would have had time to redo the brackets and send out an updated bracket. Had they done it on Sat. or early Sunday before the coaches meet (most meet in the afternoon or night) they would have had time to switch game videos (my guess is the vast majority use HUDL so there is no travel involved swapping game videos) look at them, formulate a game plan and implement it on Mon. But starting all over on Mon. is too late. remember that HS coaches do not have the luxury of spending all day Mon. doing this. Many teach, and many are part time coaches (who work another non teaching job) so this would not be feasible,
It's kind of ridiculous to be upset with SEG. Be upset
with the Dudley coaches for not preventing it or reporting it on their
own, but you can't blame SEG for Dudley breaking the rules. Oh "waaahhh
they waited til Monday..." well how long was Dudley going to wait before
they self reported?
I agree. If they did not know that they had done anything wrong (I find that difficult to believe) why would they self report. Again it would have probably made the situation a lot less volatile if the SE HC had contacted the D HC and shared this with him to give him the option to self report. If he did not then the SE coach would have been withing his rights to do the reporting. Some times coaches dislike each other so much that they will not make this an option.
This post was edited on 11/11 4:46 PM by No.1RamsFan
It's kind of ridiculous to be upset with SEG. Be upset
with the Dudley coaches for not preventing it or reporting it on their
own, but you can't blame SEG for Dudley breaking the rules. Oh "waaahhh
they waited til Monday..." well how long was Dudley going to wait before
they self reported?
I agree. If they did not know that they had done anything wrong (I find that difficult to believe) why would they self report. Again it would have probably made the situation a lot less volatile if the SE HC had contacted the D HC and shared this with him to give him the option to self report. If he did not then the SE coach would have been withing his rights to do the reporting. Some times coaches dislike each other so much that they will not make this an option.
This post was edited on 11/11 4:46 PM by No.1RamsFan
Well knowing the rule, as I do and knowing that reporting the infraction would in no way help my team with its seeding because the brackets are final with no additional teams being added. I myself ( I can't speak for others) would have made a call to the coaches at Dudley and told them of the violation and informed them that I would not report it because I didn't want to see kids hurt in this process. These kids have lifted, ran, bled and sweated for this chance. I know they had no control in the situation but would receive all the punishment. Call me what you want, but hell if I was a cop and pulled a car over for doing 100mph on the highway only to find a husband driving his wife in labor to the hospital, I wouldn't give a ticket, but probably an escort. That's just me. I Remember times as the PYF president for the Giants that I would allow kids a few pounds over to play. For both out team and others. All those little ones wanted to do was play. We knew the rules, but looking into those eyes gave me compassion. My issue is that the NCHSAA picks and chooses when to enforce rules. I'm a Northern parent and we self reported this same infraction last year, was hit with a fine a forfeits. Now there was a team that shall remain nameless, who had an ineligible player that was a major player on their varsity team. Kid lived out of district. Now that team was only fined. You know what the rules say should have been done? I can only speak on how I would have done it... Kids first and a factor in my judgement. Northern wasn't an issue, kids continued to play, but in this case kids can't win. SAD...
I said the punishment Is over the top. By the letter of the law there disqualified. I think its a stupid rule and needs to be changed. As for now you cant do anything about it.
If the punishment wasnt predetermined i would make them play away games the whole playoffs. Reseeding is out of the question.
SEG knowingly held it till Monday. They did not approach the AD at Dudley and say they were going to report them. Coaches analyze film on Saturday anyways. Dudley was probably completely unaware of it.
There is bad blood between the two schools as well. SE could've done it on Saturday or Sunday is what I was told from a very reputable source and one I trust. They knew what would happen if they did it Saturday vs Monday.
