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[PirateDad17]

Originally posted by 3daughters:
Its not a Prep school idiot.

So why does the name say Winston Salem Prep ? Could it have something to do with trying to imply they are a Prep school which will attract students ? I think your statement that Winston Salem Prep is not a Prep School speaks volumes on the issue. They are also not a 1A school that plays by the same rules as the other 1A schools and would be ran off the court if we could all pick the best players from our county , People that continue to try to justify are the elitist snobbish bully that want to abuse you and you keep your mouth shut and say nothing , Obviously the master we call the NCHSAA does not care about fair play and sportsmanship, but rather the fees collected from the participation of our children which pay their salaries . We should tell our kids you have to play by the rules unless you live in Forsyth County. Then we will make special rules for you so you can have an unfair advantage over your opponent, and some windbag will be here to defend it for you .

 

[kingbluedevil]

waiting on Mr Windbags response

 

[3daughters]

Quit blaming the NCHSAA. The charter schools are NC public schools per the General Assembly in Raleigh and therefore are entitled to become members of the NCHSAA. Magnet schools are NC Public Schools. The Catholic schools have been members of the NCHSAA for over 50 years (Cardinal Gibbons and Charlotte Catholic). A vote was taken to remove the Catholic schools, it didn't happen. An effort was made to have ultra successful programs move up in class, it didn't happen. Charter schools aren't in existence for the purpose of winning 1A basketball championships. Magnet schools aren't in existence for the purpose of winning 1A basketball championships. Bishop McGuinness isn't in existence for the purpose of winning 1A basketball championships.

 

[eaglepride82]

Question for 3Daughters:
Does Bishop accept applications and have an interview process for approval of students that are accepted to its school?


Does this process result in a population of students that are more motivated and could be considered above average?


Could it also be that exceptional students are referred to Bishop or "encouraged" to apply?


Magnet school may not have the written acceptance requirements and claim to use a lottery system to select the students that are admitted. But the population of the students that they select from or apply the lottery to, would also be considered students that want to be there or are also more motivated than the average student. Many times the students in the lottery pool
are actually students who have been recommended to attend that school or "encouraged" (recruited-hint hint).

This post was edited on 3/6 10:01 AM by eaglepride82

 

[eaglepride82]

You are absolutely correct that these schools are not in existence to win 1A state championships but they sure do use the low ADM numbers to their advantage.

 

[eaglepride82]

And you are one of the first to always jump on this board to brag about their "accomplishment" or deny the overwhelming advantage that these schools have over traditional schools. To me a state title by a private or magnet school is not much to brag about.

 

[BigSkyCountry]

Originally posted by Dave2kMA:

The caveat is that this isn't going to have the end result that everyone wants. It'll thin the 1A field of the charters and the parochials, but schools like Prep, which are considered true public schools (they just happen to be in an open enrollment county), are not going to get shifted over.

Any school in an open enrollment system should either be in a division of similar schools, or be 4A, period. There are many 1A schools that are the only school in their county. They have no choice as far as bring kids into their program. They choose from the students that live in their district. That is why we have classifications. We live in a country where the government (from local to state to national) was set up so that the individual could not be bullied by the majority. If every school has an equal vote in this matter, then the 4A, 3A, and 2A schools obviously will outnumber the 1A schools by a 3-1 margin. There is no way they will ever vote to have the cheaters moved up to their division. 1A will be stuck with the bullies and there is absolutely nothing we can do about it. It is going to take someone with power to use their heart and reason to make a decision that is fair for all. The problem is that as long as we have been forced to live with the money and power hoarding monopoly called the NCHSAA, no such person has ever been in power. We do have a voice on this forum, and I appreciate that very much, but that voice is silenced beyond that.
To all of the bullies, enjoy the spoils of your conquests over us. I hope you are very proud of you accomplishments. Don't worry, we will continue paying our dues, because we have no other option (aforementioned monopoly). We will always show up for the fight, so you can collect your prize. The season is now over, so go out to all of the club tournaments and sell your school as an academic institution to those youngsters and their parents who simply want their kids to get a good education and are not at all interested in pooling their young athletes together on a loaded team with a tradition of smacking down the commoners.

 

[3daughters]

Charters are exploding because parents, especially in urban areas, want more control over their children's public school education. These ADM numbers for these charters will continue to grow (case in point Lake Norman Charter which quickly went from 1A to 2A). Bishop would be more than happy to grow in numbers but they draw from very small feeder schools of which many parents opt to send their Catholic kids to public high schools instead of Bishop. The idea that Bishop is a rich kids private school is ludicrous. Magnets, again in urban areas, exist because parents and students want to prepare for a particular area of study.

The face of public school education in NC is changing but not so much in rural areas because these areas haven't faced many of the problems that urban public schools have faced. The realities are not the fault of the NCHSAA and all the bitching and moaning about the NCHSAA is misdirected.

Recruiting is not allowed. If anyone has evidence of recruiting taking place other than "someone said" or "I know it is taking place" bring it forward. Somehow, that never seems to happen.

 

[3daughters]

You say that I deny the overwhelming advantage....try going back and reading my posts for the last ten years before saying that. EVERY BISHOP FAN FOR THE LAST DECADE ON THIS SITE HAS ACKNOWLEDGED THAT THEY HAVE AN ADVANTAGE.

 

[eaglepride82]

If that is something you believe then tell me why on this thread alone you referred to one poster as a moron and a second poster as an idiot for mentioning the advantage that the private or magnet school has? And yes the Magnet Schools are using the low ADM numbers to their advantage and selecting or encouraging the better athletes to attend their school.

 

[3daughters]

I called him a moron and idiot because he came on here calling WS Prep the "Forsyth County all-stars" and a "small collage" which are idiotic and moronic statements. You think you are the first person to come on here to enlighten everyone that the system is unfair? It's been acknowledged that there is not a level playing field over and over and over.

It's also been acknowledged that there is not a level playing field among traditional 1A programs with a multitude of different transfer rules among all the counties in NC and even within the very same county (ie Surry County). Many "boundary schools" are hardly "boundary schools". But charters, magnets and Bishop are a much easier target.

You and others suggest/allege that some schools "recruit". Give me a name and a school with evidence to back it up.

The issue of magnets and charters is an outgrowth of the changing public school systems in urban areas. Once there are sufficient numbers of charters for a separate classification it will happen (but as Dave2k pointed out not as to WS Prep).

 

[Buddy Rich]

To my knowledge 3D, the kids in Stanly County have to go to the school in the district they are assigned to. You can probably change schools if you change your residence. Btango would know more about this than me.

 

[eaglepride82]

Recruit: to persuade (someone) to join you in some activity or to help you. So you do not think that there are athletes at these schools that would have went to another school if they were not persuaded to by other athletes or coaches that they were exposed to by playing on the same AAU team or League. I am sorry but traditional schools do no have that luxury.

 

[3daughters]

Buddy, I think you are correct about Stanly County. That is not the case in Surry County, however, which is a big issue when each county, and even each school district within a county, can have different rules. There is not and never has been a "level playing field" even among traditional public high schools.

Eagle: the decision to send my daughters to Bishop had ZERO to do with basketball. They would have attended Bishop even if Bishop had no basketball team at all.

 

[Alleghany84]

I fear that this is a problem that will never be fixed. I do not think that a single charter or magnet was established with the intent of becoming a sports powerhouse. However, schools have saw opportunities to take advantage of opportunities that have been presented to them. People are competitive by nature, and if you give them an opportunity to take advantage of a system, they will. Heck if you put me in the same spot, I will do the same. Dave is correct, at some point there will be an attempt to correct it. The solution, however will have holes and people will be allowed to take advantage of those holes. I guess what I find amazing is that the traditional boundary schools have had opportunities taken away from them in the process. Why should the charters and magnets have not been required to wait until there was enough teams to have a separate championship. How many State championships were taken from East Surry during Bishops run. How many State championships will be taken from East Carteret during Preps run. I appreciate that there have been opportunities to vote multiple times in the past, but that was not the way to correct it. 1A does not want the advantaged schools, and neither does 2,3 or 4a. Since the larger classifications have more votes, how would you expect a vote to turn out.

I think it should be the goal of the NCHSAA to provide fair and equal opportunities for teams to be successful, and right now, they are simply not doing that. It was not Avery Counties fault last night that they lost. The NCHSAA put them in a position where they basically had no chance to be successful.

Not wanting the deck stacked in my favor, just wanting to start the game with a fair and equal chance.

 

[3daughters]

Eagle..."traditional schools do not have that luxury"? Not sure where you live but definitely not in the Triad or Surry and Stokes County.

 

[Alleghany84]

3D you are probably correct. There are some fringe issues going on in some multi high schools counties as well. Those are correctable by taking freedoms away from the local BOE, that they currently have. One example of skirting is. What if you live in the East Surry district but your mom teaches as Surry Central. She wanted you close to her when you were young, so she started you in the Surry Central system even though you live in East Surry. Seems like a reasonable and descent rule, but sure as the world, if a teacher has a good athlete coming along and you have an opening in your school, wouldn't you consider hiring the mom in hopes of son following. City schools are a whole different set of problems.

I live in a 1 high school county, and the kids we get are the kids we get. I just want everyone else to play by same rules. At the end of the day, that is all I care about. And I am reasonably sure that there are many out there just like me.

 

[3daughters]

Allegheny, with all due respect I don't think that it's the fault of the NCHSAA. Charter schools are a function of the General Assembly in Raleigh. Because of the early success of the few charters in the state the Legislature voted to expand the number of permitted charters significantly. To get a charter approved and up and running, however, is no easy feat and certainly is not being done for basketball purposes. There are those schools which are created solely for basketball ( ie New Hope Christian in Thomasville that is in the USA Today top 20 again this year) and there are schools that recruit (NCHSIAA).

The Charters are public high schools and when they meet the requirements to be a member of the NCHSAA there is no way for the NCHSAA to deny them admission. The complaints need to be directed at the General Assembly, not the NCHSAA.

I love seeing the posts about "why don't we just start our own charter or "prep" school and get all the best players in the county to go there"....go ahead and see how far you'll get.

 

[3daughters]

Alleghany, as much as it may not seem to many, I fully understand your feelings. When Bishop and Alleghany were in the same conference and I made the trek up there (or to a school in the location of North Stokes) I was amazed at the caliber of competition and the amount of support. It's no easy feat to have a successful athletic program at your high school and what your school has done lately has been outstanding. You and the community are justifiably very proud.

 

[Dosso]

I just awoke from a coma, and I have no idea what year it is. But I know it must be March

 

[3daughters]

you know that it cant be football season!

 

[Big43]

At the end of the day I think it's the Nchsaa job is just to ensure that all students get the opportunity to participate in sports. Winning state titles is not guaranteed even if the non rational schools were not around. Only two teams make it to the title game and only one can win so all this banter every year this time seems like a broken record.

 

[Alleghany84]

3d I have always knew that at the end of the day, you see that there is a problem just like we all do. You are understandably defensive when people attack with some of the words that are used. I unlike some realize that there are really 4 distinct issues and how hard it will be to find a one size fits all fix. The problems in no particular order are privates, charters, magnets, and multiple school counties that fudge the rules. If there was ever going to be a level playing field and I fear that there wont, all these problems would have to be corrected, and it would require a lot of work to do so.

I think the reason that it is hard to swallow right now, is because we have just had the best team that the school has ever had (in my opinion) and the best team that we may have in my lifetime due to the gene pool in our community, and saw that end with a loss to one of those advantaged schools (Prep). They may get it corrected at some point in the future, but you cant give that group of kids their shot back. With every year that passes, another group of young people at small rural high schools are having yet another chance taken from them, and I really do not hear discussion of plans to correct it. I have written and emailed the NCHSAA and received either no response or a response that equaled nothing. Your point about the General Assembly is also correct. It is them that is in love with the charter idea, and once they become a public school, they do qualify for NCHSAA play. However, it is within the power of the NCHSAA to create different classifications via rules that prevents this problem from growing. I have read and agree that the problem will not be viewed as a problem until it starts affecting football and I agree with that statement. The football coaches have the power with the NCHSAA, and when they want it fixed, the efforts will increase.

 

[3daughters]

But the NCHSAA is made up of member schools and I'm not aware of any plans being proposed to help solve the problem. I can only speak for Bishop and I can speak firsthand and have spoken of our efforts to help address the issue. We understand all too well as we have borne the brunt for quite some time (but only during basketball season) since teams love to see us on their football schedule.

A couple of years ago the boys team from Highland Tech made it to the Western Regionals and this site was outraged about how unfair it was for them to be playing. No one cared that for years and years before Highland Tech has not had any success and since that time you never hear about Highland Tech because they have not had success. It's only a problem if that team is winning, otherwise, no problem.

 

[TrojanGreen23]

The officiating last night between Albemarle and Lincoln Charter definitely proved they didn't want 2 nontraditional schools playing in the western finals. Wow. It was almost obvious as well. I heard the final foul count was Lincoln 27 Albemarle 9 and Lincoln Charter was playing mostly zone. But the argument is getting old. When these small traditional teams advance all is right in their little world. When they lose, well, you see it writing all over these threads. Not all nontraditional schools do what WSP does so don't let one bad apple spoil the bunch. All charters that I know have lotteries that are monitored and upheld by NC. I too live in a small town with a lot of pride but I enjoy watching good athletes compete, good coaches coach, and good teams win. I doesn't bother me one bit who that athlete is, who that coach is , or who that team is. Bottom line is you only can have 1 winner and the best team will win. Small traditional school or not. This years 1A tournament has been the best it has ever been so why be so bitter about things. I think 1A basketball is getting to the level where most of the top tier teams can compete with 2A, 3A, and 4A teams. That is a good sign of things to come. I look for some team to knock WSP off the top soon, hopefully that is Saturday against Albemarle. Good luck to all teams and may the best win.

 

[Alleghany84]

Sorry Big43, I am sure that it does sound like a broken record to those of you that don't see a problem. To those of us that see opportunities taken away from young people, it continues to be a terribly difficult pill to swallow. So by your statement about the NCHSAA job to only provide an opportunity to play, then you don't see the need for classifications of schools based on a given set of rules. Is that correct? Coincidentally which school do you support 43? I love having this discussion. But I love it even more when I realize which set of ideas I am arguing with. Please tell us which program you support so that we can continue this discussion. No one has any question who 3D supports, and by my screen name, I think it is pretty obvious who and what I support. Lay it out there for us.

 

[Deana_King]

Thought both games were officiated well for the most part.
Posted from Rivals Mobile

 

[Big43]

Alleghany I can understand how the smaller communities feel at a disadvantage but as long as you are in the Nchsaa you will never have a level playing field. A few years ago prior to the charter discussion the complaint was N. Rowanand other 1a schools have double and tripple our students it's not fair for us to compete against them with so many students. At some point the schools need to take some sort of action instead of just message board post by parents and supporters Boycott, Lawsuit, Go to the headquarters and protest etc. It seems that all the passion around this issues dies after the kids posters are supporting graduate .That's why I say it seems like a broken record these conversations go on every march by whoever has a good team. I mean no disrespect but last year was the first year we are hearing from E. Carteret and after their great players leave we will not hear form them again I've seen it times and times again. by I do see the need to allow to have one set of rules for all schools but the open enrollment systems will not go back since Pandora's box has been opened and why should they . If you are paying the same taxes in the same communities why should you not have the choice to go to any school in the district. This issue is bigger than athletics to me and other feel the same way hence the charter school request and the gop voucher programs. I support Forsyth county schools I know they have an advantage because since open enrollment the counties state titles quadrupled in the years after. We are in a new age we can make adjustments or watch the world change.

 

[Alleghany84]

Wow Trojan it is interesting how 2 people could watch the same game and come away with 2 completely different observations. I did notice that there was huge disparity in fouls, but there were 2 distinct reasons for that. Reason number 1 was Lincoln Charter was behind and fouling on purpose. Reason #2 was because Albemarle put the ball on the floor and took it to the hole, and LC stood out there and jacked 3 pointers. You will not get fouled much standing out there throwing up 23 footers. I agree that there was a foul disparity but it certainly was not because they did not want 2 non traditional schools in the West final. The NCHSAA has proven for many years that they favor the non traditional schools or something would have been done. Do you really believe that an officiating crew walks on the court to determine a winner? Wow! The way games are officiated at times will favor one team over another. But officials are not blatant cheaters as you insinuated. I also love to watch good basketball, and will drive long distances to do so. I only want teams playing in the classifications that they belong. If that is the case, the better they are the more I respect what they are doing, but carving a 1a school out of Forsyth county and winning several years in a row is not something to be respected, and I refuse to do so. Are you a Bandys fan? I have spent months trying to figure out who you pull for and when I saw the Bandys girls last night it hit me. If you are a 2a fan, I can understand why this problem would not bother you at all.

 

[Big43]

Don't get me started on Forsyth County the did not carve out a 1a district they wanted every community to have their own school so they overbuilt. Winston-Salem has 5 high schools in a five mile radius so there is not population in the area to support 5 schools so that's why you have 1a a schools in a metropolitan area Carver and Walkertown will probably switch in the next realignment.


4a East Forsyth(1927)
2a Carver(707)
1a Walkertown (758)
1a Atkins(603)
1a Ws-Prep(243)

 

[Alleghany84]

Interesting numbers there 43. Amazing how there are all these schools within a 5 mile radius and coincidentally all this talent lands at prep and Walkertown has nothing. You said in a previous statement that it obviously gave them an advantage since state titles quadrupled after open enrollment started. Now you are somehow trying to turn around and defend what is going on.

It is what it is. Tired of arguing the point. It is not going to change. Only 243 students and two consecutive mens state titles and most likely a third getting ready to happen. In addition to that, they also have the best 1a girls team in the state. I did not major in statistics in college, but it seems almost impossible for a school of 243 students to mysteriously end up with enough talent to potentially win both the boys and girls 3a state championships.
This post was edited on 3/7 12:37 AM by Alleghany84

 

[BK13T-$]

Its a joke and BM is nothing if you put them with there own kind. Losers.


You have winners ,losers and last of all you have winners that play down. BM.
In that order.

 

[Sportsnut17]

Originally posted by BK13T-$:

Its a joke and BM is nothing if you put them with there own kind. Losers.


You have winners ,losers and last of all you have winners that play down. BM.
In that order.

Just curious, what is their own kind?

 

[3daughters]

Bk... " there, their and they're".... Study those words and next post you've got a one in three chance to be correct to exhibit that fine Robbinsville education..lol

 

[Dosso]

What is their own kind in girls' basketball? Catholics? Private Schools? And I am not one to make fun of someone's grammar under normal circumstances but it is difficult sometimes to understand what you are trying to say. I am not sure what point to respond to exactly.

 

[recycled2]

Difficult to read BK's mind but I think he is referencing that Bishop had 0 titles in the NCHISAA(or whatever it is). In that they would be in with schools that are roughly the same as them.

 

[BK13T-$]

That be what I saying. Yunz R correct.

 

[bareman]

BM couldn't compete with their own (privates)....got into the NCHSAA to give their kids a better chance to win...that's out of their own peoples mouth

 

[BK13T-$]

Silver Spoon.

 

[Dosso]

Sort of correct I think. The big schools in the private school league were and are bringing in athletes and giving scholarships and reclassifying, and McGuinness did not and could not and mostly had to just rely on only their feeder school kids, and that league was letting kids from their feeder schools work out with and actually play on their high school teams and McGuinness could not, so because they did not really fit in that league either, they left. Being independent would have been too difficult to get games to fill out a schedule. The other school in their diocese was already in the NCHSAA, and the other Catholic School, Cardinal Gibbons, was also leaving the private school league for the NCHSAA, and Gibbons was dominant in the private school league. Now when it comes to girls' basketball, they would actually have done MUCH better this year in the private school league than in 1A. They would have been one of the top 3 or 4 teams in the largest classification of the private school league this year. In past years they would have been one of the top 2.