Why are teams in the West and East so different?

[superstar57]

HS that are around D1 colleges are ahead of the curb when it comes to trying new things. In the east tradition of a school carried on for years ( last 5 years I have seen the east definitely trying new offensive styles) in the 90's and early 2000's only 3a and above would even try to pass. SWO is still the only school to win and play in state championship without ever attempting any pass plays. They attempted ZERO pass plays and won.. lol..

Execution is the key no matter how you play.

 

[Darkhorse#34]

It was long overdue for NS Jacksonville to make it to a title game....think about those teams they had in the mid 2000's if it wasnt for some good Clinton,South Columbus,and Tarboro teams they would probably made multiple trips maybe even winning one....made 4 straight trips to the eastern Final between 2005-2008.....2011 went undefeated they got screwed by whoever made the brackets had to play Tarboro in the 2nd round....2012 went undefeated again lost to Carrboro in Eastern Finals.....2016 finally got over that hump....we handed them some playoff heartbreaks bout time they returned the favor i guess

 

[Wolf4Lyfe]

I don't think scheme is necesarily what separates the east and west. Personally I think it has to do with the level of competition in the west being better. It isn't a knock on the east because there are some great teams down that way but from top to bottom there is just more quality competition in the west.

 

[superstar57]

It was long overdue for NS Jacksonville to make it to a title game....think about those teams they had in the mid 2000's if it wasnt for some good Clinton,South Columbus,and Tarboro teams they would probably made multiple trips maybe even winning one....made 4 straight trips to the eastern Final between 2005-2008.....2011 went undefeated they got screwed by whoever made the brackets had to play Tarboro in the 2nd round....2012 went undefeated again lost to Carrboro in Eastern Finals.....2016 finally got over that hump....we handed them some playoff heartbreaks bout time they returned the favor i guess

Northside should have beaten the great Todd Gurly in an eastern finals, but IMHO was not as versatile enough to adapt to any thing else, believe Northside ran out of the I formation under eason a lot, but I could be wrong about formation.

I don't think scheme is necesarily what separates the east and west. Personally I think it has to do with the level of competition in the west being better. It isn't a knock on the east because there are some great teams down that way but from top to bottom there is just more quality competition in the west.

The level is better, I just can't agree, What I will say is especially lately in 2a or 2aa is that your top teams have been close to dominate. Tarboro won 2 or 3 in a row in 2a and was having to go through several good teams to get there. I could realistically say even Northside was better than most 2a schools in the west, but just could not get around Tarboro. Clinton has had a couple of dominate runs in 2a, and so has Southwest Onslow while in 2a. To just say west has better competition is a little hard to accept, but in 2a have they been kicking butt for 4-5 years yes they have. I still don't know if your 2nd best team on down is any better than the east 2nd best. Those Shelby teams were destroying the schools there size in the west just as bad as they have the destroyed the east in Championships, so I can't say the west competition is that much better or better at all.

 

[72 State Champion]

Southwest beat Shelby in the early 2000's running the triple option against there spread.

Negative. Southwest beat Shelby because we fumbled three times inside on our 20 on our first 3 series of the game with a Sophmore QB. We were down and playing from behind within the first 10 minutes of the game. We were running the wing-T then. We didn't switch to the spread until 2011.

 

[Frank Lost Password]

Negative. Southwest beat Shelby because we fumbled three times inside on our 20 on our first 3 series of the game with a Sophmore QB. We were down and playing from behind within the first 10 minutes of the game. We were running the wing-T then. We didn't switch to the spread until 2011.

So those 3 straight years of 6 losses into Wares first season Shelby was still running the Wing T?

 

[Chopper747]

I don't think scheme is necesarily what separates the east and west. Personally I think it has to do with the level of competition in the west being better. It isn't a knock on the east because there are some great teams down that way but from top to bottom there is just more quality competition in the west.

And the proximity to quality competition and supplemental resources like trainers and skills camps.

Any team in the west can drive 1.5 hours at most in any direction and bump into a NC or SC powerhouse or a national/regionally ranked team.

Northside should have beaten the great Todd Gurly in an eastern finals, but IMHO was not as versatile enough to adapt to any thing else, believe Northside ran out of the I formation under eason a lot, but I could be wrong about formation.



The level is better, I just can't agree, What I will say is especially lately in 2a or 2aa is that your top teams have been close to dominate. Tarboro won 2 or 3 in a row in 2a and was having to go through several good teams to get there. I could realistically say even Northside was better than most 2a schools in the west, but just could not get around Tarboro. Clinton has had a couple of dominate runs in 2a, and so has Southwest Onslow while in 2a. To just say west has better competition is a little hard to accept, but in 2a have they been kicking butt for 4-5 years yes they have. I still don't know if your 2nd best team on down is any better than the east 2nd best. Those Shelby teams were destroying the schools there size in the west just as bad as they have the destroyed the east in Championships, so I can't say the west competition is that much better or better at all.

The west is probably more playoff ready due to scheduling quality 3A/4A opponents also. Thats part of having better competition.

 

[72 State Champion]

I honestly and truly believe Reidsville and Shelby would have won any division other than 4a 4aa and it would only be a depth issue.

Negative...I am sorry but we made the trip over to Wake Forest after our victory and watched you guys play that middle school team. You (Reidsville) were a one man team....Rankin or whatever his name was. Had any team shut him down you guys were toast. And yes any good 3A or 3AA team would have shut him down. We will never know but based on the eye test, we would have beat you guys by at least 21 maybe even 46 again. Just being honest. No way does anyone run on our defense last year and your QB would have never gotten a pass off. We stayed after our game and watched 4AA Wake Forest. They were a fantastic team. I think we could have given them a game but they would have probably eventually pulled it out. Page was just terrible again....we would have beaten Page.

 

[72 State Champion]

So those 3 straight years of 6 losses into Wares first season Shelby was still running the Wing T?

What?

2011 was Ware's first year as Head Coach. The year we started using the spread. Can you read?
2011 - Western Finals
2012 - 3rd round
2013, 14, 15, 16 - State Champs

 

[Chopper747]

.we would have beaten Page.

 

[superstar57]

Negative. Southwest beat Shelby because we fumbled three times inside on our 20 on our first 3 series of the game with a Sophmore QB. We were down and playing from behind within the first 10 minutes of the game. We were running the wing-T then. We didn't switch to the spread until 2011.

Lol. Okay if you want to say that then I will use Ninjas argument that SWO lost to Shelby 3 or 4 years ago because we could not punt a football. We still we're in that game until the end of the third.

The point of that post was not to say anything about Shelby it was to highlight what 5 other posters have said it is about execution no matter who is playing.

 

[superstar57]

And the proximity to quality competition and supplemental resources like trainers and skills camps.

Any team in the west can drive 1.5 hours at most in any direction and bump into a NC or SC powerhouse or a national/regionally ranked team.


The west is probably more playoff ready due to scheduling quality 3A/4A opponents also. Thats part of having better competition.

I agree with having 3a and 4a teams to compete against also makes west good. I just have problem thinking there is "more quality 2a teams" because it's not, it is exactly what you said, 2a still gets to play against high quality 3a-4a in there area,

 

[Chopper747]

I agree with having 3a and 4a teams to compete against also makes west good. I just have problem thinking there is "more quality 2a teams" because it's not, it is exactly what you said, 2a still gets to play against high quality 3a-4a in there area,

Besides Rocky Mt and Havelock, there has been no high quality 3A in the east to help prepare most of those teams, and nevermind 4A/4AA. The west has long lists in every class compared to the east. Outside of Rocky Mt, Havelock, and Wake Forest in recent years there isn't much in competition east of the Triad/Scotland/Richmond counties.

You can check out most of the latest western profiles along with some SC and compare here:
http://www.charlotteobserver.com/sports/high-school/

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/sports/high-school/article159440704.html

 

[superstar57]

Besides Rocky Mt and Havelock, there has been no high quality 3A in the east to help prepare most of those teams, and nevermind 4A/4AA. The west has long lists in every class compared to the east. Outside of Rocky Mt, Havelock, and Wake Forest in recent years there isn't much in competition east of the Triad/Scotland/Richmond counties.

You can check out most of the latest western profiles along with some SC and compare here:
http://www.charlotteobserver.com/sports/high-school/

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/sports/high-school/article159440704.html

Thanks for the links and again I agree when it comes to 3a-4a ball there are tons of better competition as far as having more quality teams in those classifications in the west I would not even try to debate that. Greensboro and Charlotte just have a ton of those schools. New Hanover, New bern, Havelock, and Scotland can make some cases for the east, and let me not to forget to include Fayetteville have some really good programs, but on a given year it is hard to find more than 2-3 teams that are worth anything at one time. The east represents far better in the 1a-2a classifications.

I will say that from 2000-2006 the ECC which was a 2a conference was simply one of the best conferences in the State because on any given year 4 teams could win a state championship and you will find that the new ECC conference should be on that same level while being a 2a conference so it would be hard for me to say that they are not playing the competition that makes them as good as the west. Look at WRH schedule and you can't tell me they don't have just as hard of a path as Shelby and I say that because there conference is way harder and they play some really good 3a schools. I think they have Northside and Havelock this year.

 

[Chopper747]

Thanks for the links and again I agree when it comes to 3a-4a ball there are tons of better competition as far as having more quality teams in those classifications in the west I would not even try to debate that. Greensboro and Charlotte just have a ton of those schools. New Hanover, New bern, Havelock, and Scotland can make some cases for the east, and let me not to forget to include Fayetteville have some really good programs, but on a given year it is hard to find more than 2-3 teams that are worth anything at one time. The east represents far better in the 1a-2a classifications.

I will say that from 2000-2006 the ECC which was a 2a conference was simply one of the best conferences in the State because on any given year 4 teams could win a state championship and you will find that the new ECC conference should be on that same level while being a 2a conference so it would be hard for me to say that they are not playing the competition that makes them as good as the west. Look at WRH schedule and you can't tell me they don't have just as hard of a path as Shelby and I say that because there conference is way harder and they play some really good 3a schools. I think they have Northside and Havelock this year.

They have a decent schedule for their location, but they dont have a harder path

Nothing on their schedule compares to Crest, nationally ranked South Pointe(SC 4A champ), or AC Reynolds. Freedom has lots of talent and Havelock's old coach. Special mention 2AA South Point(Gastonia), last years 3A champion.

I'll give them Havelock even though they may not be dominant this season

You can look up schools on their schedules and compare profiles

http://www.maxpreps.com/high-schools/shelby-golden-lions-(shelby,nc)/football/schedule.htm


http://www.maxpreps.com/high-schools/wallace-rose-hill-bulldogs-(teachey,nc)/football/schedule.htm

 

[superstar57]

Shelby is another creature, and are a program everyone is striving to beat. It's not that I will not talk trash about Shelby also, but I get bothered as other "2a or 2aa" schools in the west try to come to some conclusion that they are better than the east 2a. Again for the moment (Can't tell when the moment will end) Shelby should be banned from all football convos! They are that good. Having South Point moving down to 2aa definitely makes for a strong case for the west, but the Clinton's and E Duplins and several other 2aa squads are can match up with your other 2aa nicely, anybody but Shelby and that is a credit to that team not the west and that has been my main complaint about the west thinking they are so much beater. The west can't beat Shelby and neither can the east.

 

[cougars45]

In 2009-2011 Tarboro won 3 straight titles and was better than any western team in 2a, ran the wing T didn't pass much just bigger faster and more physical than anyone in 2a at that time, in 2012 they lost the 2a state title to East Lincoln and after dropping down to 1a the following year they've competed well but haven't been no where near as elite, great programs like that usually have eras where they are the best of the best but eventually somethings gotta give, someone's going to dethrone Shelby eventually and the football world will be set back in proper balance

 

[Chopper747]

Shelby is another creature, and are a program everyone is striving to beat. It's not that I will not talk trash about Shelby also, but I get bothered as other "2a or 2aa" schools in the west try to come to some conclusion that they are better than the east 2a. Again for the moment (Can't tell when the moment will end) Shelby should be banned from all football convos! They are that good. Having South Point moving down to 2aa definitely makes for a strong case for the west, but the Clinton's and E Duplins and several other 2aa squads are can match up with your other 2aa nicely, anybody but Shelby and that is a credit to that team not the west and that has been my main complaint about the west thinking they are so much beater. The west can't beat Shelby and neither can the east.

My math may be off by 1 or 2, but since 2000 out of the 32 championships, the east only has 8 titles won(this not counting when Reidsville represented them and won game here and there). Shelby only accounts for 5 or 6 of the 32. Shelby has almost as many titles as the entire east. The west is represented by many(Cummings, EL, Monroe, S. Iredell, Lincolnton,etc) it's not just Shelby.

3A the gap was wider, the east only had 4 out of 32, 3 were Havelock.

http://www.nchsaa.org/sites/default/files/attachments/FB State Champions 01062017.pdf

 

[Wolf4Lyfe]

Shelby is another creature, and are a program everyone is striving to beat. It's not that I will not talk trash about Shelby also, but I get bothered as other "2a or 2aa" schools in the west try to come to some conclusion that they are better than the east 2a. Again for the moment (Can't tell when the moment will end) Shelby should be banned from all football convos! They are that good. Having South Point moving down to 2aa definitely makes for a strong case for the west, but the Clinton's and E Duplins and several other 2aa squads are can match up with your other 2aa nicely, anybody but Shelby and that is a credit to that team not the west and that has been my main complaint about the west thinking they are so much beater. The west can't beat Shelby and neither can the east.

Yes Shelby is on top of the hill right now but I can assure that they're not carrying the West. Right now Shelby is in a unique run that you don't see very often kinda like Independence back in the day, but outside of Shelby the past few years I would say the west has around 5 other programs or so that I personally believe are a notch or two above your Clinton's or ED's. If we had a playoff system that didn't divide the state between east and west I'm pretty confident you'd have two teams from the west in the state championship fairly often

 

[raidertime]

They have a decent schedule for their location, but they dont have a harder path

Nothing on their schedule compares to Crest, nationally ranked South Pointe(SC 4A champ), or AC Reynolds. Freedom has lots of talent and Havelock's old coach. Special mention 2AA South Point(Gastonia), last years 3A champion.

I'll give them Havelock even though they may not be dominant this season

You can look up schools on their schedules and compare profiles

http://www.maxpreps.com/high-schools/shelby-golden-lions-(shelby,nc)/football/schedule.htm


http://www.maxpreps.com/high-schools/wallace-rose-hill-bulldogs-(teachey,nc)/football/schedule.htm

I agree with everything you said except South Point is in Belmont not Gastonia. Shelby's schedule will make them playoff ready.

 

[superstar57]

Small 2a should have a eastern champ this year as long as Shelby goes 2aa and Clinton should be the favorite in the 2aa east to go to finals and has the coaching to make anything interesting.

Should be a fun year, my Southwest Stallions are not ready for a championship yet, but should start making some noise again soon, and we generally fair okay against the west.

 

[Shelby Lion]

It's been a special run for this Shelby group and has been a thrill to watch . Yes it's gonna end eventually when we don't win it all but man what a ride it has been ... I'm sure we will get a good bit of ribbing when it happens but hey that's ok ... it's been fun. Not sure they are ready to fall off the mountain yet might slip a bit here and there this season but until we are kicked off we shall stand up there proud with our chest bowed out ha ha ha

Lots of quality 2a teams out there there is zero argument there ...

 

[Darkhorse#34]

Small 2a should have a eastern champ this year as long as Shelby goes 2aa and Clinton should be the favorite in the 2aa east to go to finals and has the coaching to make anything interesting.

Should be a fun year, my Southwest Stallions are not ready for a championship yet, but should start making some noise again soon, and we generally fair okay against the west.

Respectfully have to disagree dont think Clinton will be the favorite in 2AA east ill put us 3rd behind West Craven and East Duplin going be pretty young this year from what i heard....if young guys progress quickly than who knows

 

[HitmanT]

If the Shelby vs South Pointe SC game is close, and it may not be, but if it is, you may need to get the rings ready. Not bragging, but there won't be a team on our schedule or in the playoffs, that has anything close to their talent. There will be a lot of people tuned into that game to see how Shelby makes out.

 

[superstar57]

Respectfully have to disagree dont think Clinton will be the favorite in 2AA east ill put us 3rd behind West Craven and East Duplin going be pretty young this year from what i heard....if young guys progress quickly than who knows

Keep forgetting about West Craven, and E Duplin well you know the history when it comes to playoffs with those guys (Some of the best teams to not win or get a chance to compete for a title come from there).

 

[Chopper747]

If the Shelby vs South Pointe SC game is close, and it may not be, but if it is, you may need to get the rings ready. Not bragging, but there won't be a team on our schedule or in the playoffs, that has anything close to their talent. There will be a lot of people tuned into that game to see how Shelby makes out.

How close? Like 45-20 close?

 

[HitmanT]

How close? Like 45-20 close?

I would say more like if its 28-14.

 

[72 State Champion]

Yeah hitman....I think our defense will keep us in that game. The 7 on 7 results show me the timing between Malik and his receivers is honing in. Plus we will have DaDa back and he is gonna be tough for anyone to stop. I think it will be closer than people think. Last thing I want is to get blown out.....that wouldn't be good. I'll even take a close loss...just no blow out. Kinda feels like David and Goliath but we have our sling and we have several rocks.

 

[Chopper747]

I would say more like if its 28-14.

I think 35-14

 

[SHS LION]

If we had more experience on the Oline I would feel better. Plus the speed of Borders

 

[HitmanT]

If we had more experience on the Oline I would feel better. Plus the speed of Borders

Hopefully the line will hold up enough that Malik doesn't have to have his head on a swivel.

 

[leo1999]

Shelby and south pointe will be closer than most people think.

 

[Lion Attack]

Sneak this in right quick, working. Superior talent is superior talent, South Pointe will have the edge in that department, but we have talent, too, and I just can't see a Malik and Dax led team getting blown out, those two epitomize leadership, and the will to win, they really galvanize the troops, so give me Shelby and the points anytime. 21 points, as Chopper posted? I'd be willing to place a wager against that, seriously.

Quick tidbits, it appears that McMullens, Cherry, Allen, and Greene will be the starters at receiver. Cherry, Allen, and Greene are fast, not Jayden Borders fast, but fast. McMullens is big and very physical, 6'2 225 lbs. He has had a great preseason, earning an offer from Gardner Webb, he's being recruited as a tight end/H-Back. If the young offensive line develops and becomes an efficient unit, South Pointe is going to have their hands full w/ us, no doubt. We have good, very capable personnel on the line, just need experience.

 

[HitmanT]

Sneak this in right quick, working. Superior talent is superior talent, South Pointe will have the edge in that department, but we have talent, too, and I just can't see a Malik and Dax led team getting blown out, those two epitomize leadership, and the will to win, they really galvanize the troops, so give me Shelby and the points anytime. 21 points, as Chopper posted? I'd be willing to place a wager against that, seriously.

Quick tidbits, it appears that McMullens, Cherry, Allen, and Greene will be the starters at receiver. Cherry, Allen, and Greene are fast, not Jayden Borders fast, but fast. McMullens is big and very physical, 6'2 225 lbs. He has had a great preseason, earning an offer from Gardner Webb, he's being recruited as a tight end/H-Back. If the young offensive line develops and becomes an efficient unit, South Pointe is going to have their hands full w/ us, no doubt. We have good, very capable personnel on the line, just need experience.

Pettis not a factor?

 

[Stallionfromthepointe]

Sneak this in right quick, working. Superior talent is superior talent, South Pointe will have the edge in that department, but we have talent, too, and I just can't see a Malik and Dax led team getting blown out, those two epitomize leadership, and the will to win, they really galvanize the troops, so give me Shelby and the points anytime. 21 points, as Chopper posted? I'd be willing to place a wager against that, seriously.

Quick tidbits, it appears that McMullens, Cherry, Allen, and Greene will be the starters at receiver. Cherry, Allen, and Greene are fast, not Jayden Borders fast, but fast. McMullens is big and very physical, 6'2 225 lbs. He has had a great preseason, earning an offer from Gardner Webb, he's being recruited as a tight end/H-Back. If the young offensive line develops and becomes an efficient unit, South Pointe is going to have their hands full w/ us, no doubt. We have good, very capable personnel on the line, just need experience.

Put your money up! We destroyed Shelby in the 7 on 7 then you factor in our D-Line not being on the field! That’s easy money for me!

 

[HitmanT]

Put your money up! We destroyed Shelby in the 7 on 7 then you factor in our D-Line not being on the field! That’s easy money for me!

The last time out they beat Shelby 25-23 in 7 on 7? D-line for both teams will definitely have an huge impact.

 

[Lion Attack]

Put your money up! We destroyed Shelby in the 7 on 7 then you factor in our D-Line not being on the field! That’s easy money for me!

Now, you're talking! When the time comes, let's put some "bread" on it, and promise to pay up. You guys beat us in pool play, but when the actual tournament started, when it counted, you only won by two points. It came down to the final play, we had a receiver to jump offsides, You guys didn't even place in the Powerade 7 on 7 recently, so you shouldn't even mention 7 on 7.

 

[Lion Attack]

Pettis not a factor?

Pettis is probably the best athlete on the team, he's explosive, and flat out dangerous in the open field, however, he's been a little inconsistent catching the ball. We're still in the preseason, though, they will be in pads soon and scrimmaging. He could still crack the lineup. He's too much of an athlete not to be involved in some capacity. He will be definitely a factor in the return game.

We're surprisingly deep at receiver. Brooks gives us some additional speed in the passing game, too. Remember, he's an excellent receiver out of the backfield.

 

[HitmanT]

DaDa reminds of Sproles.

 

[Lion Attack]

Check these pictures out. I wonder what was going through Derion Kendricks' mind as he was looking into the eyes of someone who is half man half lion.

http://www.shelbystar.com/photogallery/NC/20170714/SPORTS/714009996/PH/1?start=2