My belief is that the conference will come down to these three on both sides of boys and girls this year, right now cherokee has and advantage over both teams but have only played each once so there is still time for change to happen. First of cherokee has a large advantage when they play at their gym, not because they have an amazing atmospher or because of all there money. It is because of they to the knowledge of few people have switched the associations from which referees call games. Every school in the conference uses they same refs except cherokee and being a fan of hayesville I noticed something very interesting during their matchup at cherokee. I myself am a registered official that is taking the year off but noticed the asheville officials are not following the new hand check rule at all. whereas the local mountain officials have been calling really well in my opinion. Cherokee was very physical nothing wrong with that but they played with there hands much more than what rule allows for now and Hayesville struggled with it because they have adjusted to playing without there hands on the other player. I do not like the new rule but it is the rule, so I think once Cherokee comes to Hayesville I could definitely see where Cherokee will have lots of trouble when playing at other conference schools and I think the flow will be much different and I think Cherokee will struggle at others schools this year. So please I would like to hear other opinions on anything I have mentioned like whether you think it is fair that Cherokke uses other officials and whether or not you think it will effect schools playing at Cherokee and Cherokee playing at other schools.
Cherokee, Hayesville, Robbinsville
- Thread starter cavalier17
- Start date
First off let me say the games I have seen this year, that Cherokee was playing in both boys and girls, it would not have mattered who was refing or from what association they were from. They were just flat out the better team.
Now, when it comes to using referees from a different league for conference games, I don't agree with that. I think everyone in league play should have to pull from the same pool of officials. I don't know the rule so I am not saying anything is underhanded here at all. Are all schools allowed to use officials from different associations? Does this happen in other sports? I have heard Cherokee was unhappy with an official last year during the Robbinsville game who went to Robbinsville. Well in football season, Buck officiated the Swain/Murphy game and was the official on the Murphy sideline. Guess where he graduated from? The Murphy faithful aren't that big a fan of him either from what I gather lol. Does Cherokee use other officials duirng other sports or is it only basketball? I am ignorant on all the rules pertaining to this. What is the cost of using out of league officials? If it isn't breaking any rules, then let them do it I say. But what is the purpose of having league officials if they are not being used during league games?
Now, when it comes to using referees from a different league for conference games, I don't agree with that. I think everyone in league play should have to pull from the same pool of officials. I don't know the rule so I am not saying anything is underhanded here at all. Are all schools allowed to use officials from different associations? Does this happen in other sports? I have heard Cherokee was unhappy with an official last year during the Robbinsville game who went to Robbinsville. Well in football season, Buck officiated the Swain/Murphy game and was the official on the Murphy sideline. Guess where he graduated from? The Murphy faithful aren't that big a fan of him either from what I gather lol. Does Cherokee use other officials duirng other sports or is it only basketball? I am ignorant on all the rules pertaining to this. What is the cost of using out of league officials? If it isn't breaking any rules, then let them do it I say. But what is the purpose of having league officials if they are not being used during league games?
Cherokee can choose who they use .. They use them in all sports and for middle school. Nobody said a word during football. I for one am glad to see diff officials each night instead of the same guys over and over. I guess pisgah smokey game wasn't called right either and the winner is because of the officiating. Get over it. Everyone in the smc had to deal with poor officiating every year. Cherokee just chose to get away from it when they could.
SMC refs are notorious for calling ticky tack fouls and sending teams to the line over and over (even before the new rule). People have complained about it on here over and over. Cherokee did something about it, and people complain about that, too. Sometimes you can't win for losing. The physical play, like it or not, is the way it works in the playoffs. So, if we're looking out for our teams' best interests, we should be asking why the SMC doesn't call it like the rest of the state, not why doesn't the rest of the state call it like the SMC.
After watching our teams play all year and in the Christmas tourney in gatlinburg and the girls play in the regionals it is very apparent that the rest of the world calls a whole diff game than the smc... Games shooting 40 free throws don't exsist and the games flow much better ... Just my observation..
Observe, I am totally in agreement with you. I think the hand check rule is something that is supposed to be changed state wide. If the Cherokee kids do not start getting use to it, then they will be the one having to adjust. Everywhere Alleghany has been, it has been an issue and has been called. Just because one team wants to play a certain way, they should not necessarily be able to change associations to a group of officials that more closely resembles their style of play.
I will be interested to see results from the Robbinsville and Hayesville games at home if the difference is as big as everyone indicates that it is.
Don't get me wrong, I am not questioning the integrity of any official, but the physical hands on play is supposed to be called, and if it is not, then something is wrong.
I will be interested to see results from the Robbinsville and Hayesville games at home if the difference is as big as everyone indicates that it is.
Don't get me wrong, I am not questioning the integrity of any official, but the physical hands on play is supposed to be called, and if it is not, then something is wrong.
The downside to having the same refs all the time most will be bias towards certain teams. If a coach has road or got on a ref to bad over the years the relationship will always stay the same and when they call your games you will already be playing against the odds. I noticed from when coaching here in charlotte at the 4a level the refs know all the teams and players and some will be bias towards certain programs. When we got to regionals that all changed because none of the refs had seen us and had coach a different level of basketball in NC. The state made it that way the same applied for the state title game at chapel hill the refs had never seen either team play so the game was called fair.
Xman, I agree that officials have a tendency to develop those coaches that they have a problem with, and there is no doubt that can have an effect on the game, but it is a way of life. In small rural areas, there are limited numbers of officials that are available to draw from. It is unreasonable to expect officials to drive half way across the state to call a 1A basketball game, and be paid $90 for doing so. Most officials are employed, and officiate as a hobby or sideline. They cant leave every day at lunch to drive 4 hours to do a game. The question is, should one school in a conference be allowed to draw officials from a different pool, because as it was stated earlier, they don't call ticky tack fouls, which is another way of saying that they allow physical hands on play.
It might be an advantage during the regular season, but could work against a team come playoff time. Strangely the schools in our conference get officials from 2 different associations and have for a while. We do not notice a difference, and the reason is because of proximity not anything else.
Does Cherokee get officials from somewhere else because they do not feel they can get a fair shake from the local association or because of their officiating style. If they get them because they cant get a fair shake from the local association, then that should be corrected by the leadership of the association.
It might be an advantage during the regular season, but could work against a team come playoff time. Strangely the schools in our conference get officials from 2 different associations and have for a while. We do not notice a difference, and the reason is because of proximity not anything else.
Does Cherokee get officials from somewhere else because they do not feel they can get a fair shake from the local association or because of their officiating style. If they get them because they cant get a fair shake from the local association, then that should be corrected by the leadership of the association.
Alleghany84 I agree with you 100% I wasn't saying it was a good things just stating some facts from past experiences. No team deserves to have a unfair advantages you would hope that the games get called fair. I was just saying I have seen refs be bias towards certain programs because they call a lot of there game and respect the coach there. So when they play other teams if its a 50/50 call most likely its going to that certain team. I use to enjoy going to regions and states and having other ref crews that had not called any games from either team so that way no one can blame the refs. I would hope that Cherokee is just beating teams with talent and not all the smoke and mirrors. I will say this everyone loses sometimes you have to deal with it and move on its not the end of the world. I understand some say the refs played a big parent but it boils do to who made stops and who scored the basketball better. I watched a game were 50 fouls were called the final score was 28-23 this was a varsity 4A game.
Wow there must have been some bad free throw shooting going on. With 50 fouls called there should have been that many points scored from the free throw line.
I think what makes the SMC issue a challenge is their distance to other areas. We deal with a little of that in our conference. You will get the same guy a few times during the year, and u expect it. We do occasionally get officials come in from Hickory or Winston Salem, but for the most part, ours come from Ashe, Wilkes, and Surry. We do have one guy in the local association that is from Alleghany, but he will not call our games.
The comment that I think is most important is this. If the officials are being brought in because they officiate a different style, then that is wrong. If Cherokee is somehow being cheated by the other officials then that is wrong also. Remember, it should be for the player to adjust to the official and not vice versa.
I think what makes the SMC issue a challenge is their distance to other areas. We deal with a little of that in our conference. You will get the same guy a few times during the year, and u expect it. We do occasionally get officials come in from Hickory or Winston Salem, but for the most part, ours come from Ashe, Wilkes, and Surry. We do have one guy in the local association that is from Alleghany, but he will not call our games.
The comment that I think is most important is this. If the officials are being brought in because they officiate a different style, then that is wrong. If Cherokee is somehow being cheated by the other officials then that is wrong also. Remember, it should be for the player to adjust to the official and not vice versa.
Nobody from Murphy that I am aware of wants to see Buck with a whistle.
If you like physical basketball and officials letting the kids play,schedule a couple of games against some Georgia schools in Georgia.They let it get physical,or have in the past.But,if you are in a conference you should have to use officials from the same pool as everyone else during conference games,imo.
If you like physical basketball and officials letting the kids play,schedule a couple of games against some Georgia schools in Georgia.They let it get physical,or have in the past.But,if you are in a conference you should have to use officials from the same pool as everyone else during conference games,imo.
I think the big issue was something happened last year .. And three officials got banned from reffing Cherokee games for remarks they made. My guess that was the biggest reason not for some advantage. I think it actually helps the smc teams who play at home early in the playoffs cause the game is called so tight . But in later rounds it hurts those teams..
I don't know why the change was made but in years past Cherokee has played a more aggressive style of play (pressing, trapping) and usually had more fouls called. But in the end officials will always call to their own style, even in the same organization. We all know some officials will "let em play", some watch screeners closer than others, etc.. It is something the players must adjust to on the floor.
Really if an official hustles, is unbiased and does his/her best, then it is ok.
Yes it was very bad free throw shooting from both teams laughing out loud. I see your point I never heard of a public school being allowed to hire there own officiating crew.
Oh ok that still is different but I am sure there is some body who comes out to grade those refs on what kind of job they do. I look forward to see how Cherokee does when they play there away games if they still are winning then this is a dead issue.
I can understand that being upsetting if they had a crew that made unnecessary comments. By your comments, I take it that the two different associations do call the game differently.
Well said. If they are as good as I think they are, they will adjust to the officiating when they play at the other schools with officials from the other association.
Last time I checked Cherokee is 4-0 on away games, 3-0 on a neutral site, 5-0 at home. Cherokee plays a 1-3-1 defense, a 3-1-1 press. They hardly ever play man to man so I don't see why someone talking like we hand check all the time.Why is it so hard to give credit where is due? Oh yea, I heard they have a pretty good ms team. CHEROKEE ABOUT TAKE OVER THE SMC IN BASKETBALL. if you don't believe me just watch.
Some of the most physical teams I have watched play, use the 1-2-1-1 full court press and a 1-3-1 half court zone spread out and trapping. You don't have to play man to play physical. Those of us that have not saw them play get mixed messages from this board. Some people say they play physical and some say they don't. Some of these mixed messages are from Cherokee fans and from others. If they don't play physical then the way the game is officiated does not matter. If they do like to play physical then it does. Unlikely we will run into you guys until round 3 or 4. If we are both fortunate enough to get that far. If we do I will get to see for myself. Best of luck to Cherokee
The topic is suppose to be "Cherokee, Hayesville, Robbinsville" but all its boiled down to is which officials Cherokee uses.
Other schools in the conference have the same option. Honestly, I don't know why other schools wouldn't go this route. I've seen the parent of a Swain player call Swain's game. One of Robbinsville's players has an uncle that is a SMC official. There are two enrolled members of the Eastern Band that are SMC officials and folks often say they call in favor of Cherokee (which if you have ever seen them officiate one of Cherokee's games you'll know that's not the case)Then there's Dusty and Buck and the list goes on and on.
So? What's the problem? If having officials from the Asheville area hurts Cherokee's teams later on because of the new hand check rule then that's something CHEROKEE has to adjust to. From the sounds of things some of you will enjoy seeing Cherokee have to make some adjustments.
Those of you who can't wait to see how Cherokee does as a visiting team at another SMC school, with SMC officials, come on out to Rosman tomorrow night. Check out the Braves and Lady Braves. In the meantime lets just give these kids some credit....they can play basketball.
Other schools in the conference have the same option. Honestly, I don't know why other schools wouldn't go this route. I've seen the parent of a Swain player call Swain's game. One of Robbinsville's players has an uncle that is a SMC official. There are two enrolled members of the Eastern Band that are SMC officials and folks often say they call in favor of Cherokee (which if you have ever seen them officiate one of Cherokee's games you'll know that's not the case)Then there's Dusty and Buck and the list goes on and on.
So? What's the problem? If having officials from the Asheville area hurts Cherokee's teams later on because of the new hand check rule then that's something CHEROKEE has to adjust to. From the sounds of things some of you will enjoy seeing Cherokee have to make some adjustments.
Those of you who can't wait to see how Cherokee does as a visiting team at another SMC school, with SMC officials, come on out to Rosman tomorrow night. Check out the Braves and Lady Braves. In the meantime lets just give these kids some credit....they can play basketball.
Amen, give some credit where it's due. I understand what the main question was about at the start of this thread but it has turned into a thread for finding alternative reasons for the braves success. From what I know and have been told there was an incident with smc refs and the school will not use them again. But really tho all refs call different. A certain smc crew will call different from other smc crews it's never the same and adjusting to that is part of the game good players will adjust. Heck I've even seen refs change the way they call mid game if said game gets too chippy they will tighten up and players adjust. These kids have played several games with several different crews and even in a different state I'm pretty sure they can adjust. Again that's part of the game and I couldn't imagine a player that has played for a while not being able to adjust. It's as if some are implying that cherokee went out and held interviews for a crew that would call a certain way. That's just ridiculous. The braves are good bottom line. Just accept it.
They are very good without a doubt. I am looking forward to the seeing some out of area teams come up here for the playoffs.
As stated above, schools have complained for years about the SMC officiating. Cherokee had the " kahunas" to do something about it! Enough said!
Also stated above, hayesville's best player had an off night against Cherokee. Could that have been because of Cherokee's swarming defense?
As far as officiating, if you plan on going very far in the playoffs, you better be able to play ball, no matter where the officials are from! You're going to see all kinds of them.
As far as the legality. Cherokee, Hayesville, or anyone else in the SMC could use officials from Raleigh if they're willing to pay them. ( in this case, only Cherokee would qualify!) lol
GO BRAVES!!!!!!!!!
Also stated above, hayesville's best player had an off night against Cherokee. Could that have been because of Cherokee's swarming defense?
As far as officiating, if you plan on going very far in the playoffs, you better be able to play ball, no matter where the officials are from! You're going to see all kinds of them.
As far as the legality. Cherokee, Hayesville, or anyone else in the SMC could use officials from Raleigh if they're willing to pay them. ( in this case, only Cherokee would qualify!) lol
GO BRAVES!!!!!!!!!
Our coaches said that they had teams not wanting to come to the Christmas tournament we've had the past couple of years cause of how bad they are ... It's really a diff world with officiating out here... Most would have no idea how bad they are and bias they have ...
I have no dog in this fight,but if you are a member of a conference it would seem you should use the conference officials during ''conference '' games the same as everyone else.Non conference games,your preference.
If the conference is so terrible,find another one that suits you.I am very aware of the issues with using SMC officials,it's painful to watch more often than not and definitely has went downhill in the last 10 years and definitely should be addressed.
If the conference is so terrible,find another one that suits you.I am very aware of the issues with using SMC officials,it's painful to watch more often than not and definitely has went downhill in the last 10 years and definitely should be addressed.
I haven't seen anywhere it is required or made a point to use a certian association. I'm sure the Cherokee ad would and should do what's best as long as it was accepted .. Which I figure it had to be for them to switch where they get there refs... So all this talk is probably a non issue ..
+1 Exactly.
Those that want to blame the success, or rather misfortunes of their own team, on the fact that Cherokee uses another association to referee their sporting activities are either 1) Delusional, 2) Just want to stir up controversy, 3) Ignorant, or 4) All of the above! The fact that Cherokee's boys and girls teams are undefeated simply means that they put more points up on the board than your favorite team on the given night that they played. Nothing more, nothing less. They were the better team. If you can't digest that fact and have to come up with some crazy, "NBA announcer advantage", "referee conspiracy", or "dirty play scenario" than you my friend need to step back and reconsider the whole big picture. Period. No excuses.
My team lost to the Braves and I'm the first to admit that they lost fair and square. Did I like hearing the opposing announcer lament every time Cherokee scored? Nope.
Did I think the refs called the game a little loose? Yep.
Did I ever once complain about it? No.
We'll get our chance at home in front of our home crowd and set of referees. That's what makes the SMC the best conference in all of 1A sports. May the best team win. Game on!!!
This post was edited on 1/13 12:15 AM by Fourth'n'Inches
Fourth and Inches is "right on" with his comments.
As far as SMC officials, there are NO SMC officials. There is the Southwest Official's Association who most of the SMC schools use, however, Cherokee now uses the Asheville Association. Schools can contract with any association that they choose to.
As far as SMC officials, there are NO SMC officials. There is the Southwest Official's Association who most of the SMC schools use, however, Cherokee now uses the Asheville Association. Schools can contract with any association that they choose to.
CONSISTENCY !!! Just like college or NBA. You find out early in the game how the refs are going to let you play and adjust to their style of calling. I don't like it but that is my opinion. The bad thing is that they are NO consistency in the SMC. Even from one half to another, they might call it loose in one half and tight in another. I also agree with the bias within the ranks. Its not only against coaches they can even start calling against a team if they are getting called out by the fans. I have contacted the head of officials twice over the good old boys of the SMC. Someone from Raleigh needs to come to these games unannounced and see for themselves. They are no accountability, they can do whatever and never have to answer to anyone. The sad thing is they are not hurting the coaches or parents, they are hurting the student athlete. Isn't that who they are there for !!! Even one of our refs is the AD of a school. He may not call a game his team is playing in but by him calling another game could help his team in the standings. I call that a conflict of interest.
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