HB 484

[Lin Stadler]

Eleven state legislators from the mountains to the coast have teamed up to sponsor HB 484. This bill is specific to allowing home schooled athletes to participate in interscholastic athletics. This is a separate bill from the senate version I posted about last week,

The eleven legislators are:
Cleveland;
Dobson;
McElraft;
Yarborough (Primary)
Brody;
Ford;
Jones;
Jordan;
Pittman;
Speciale;
Stam;

Look them up and write them.

Parents make the choice to home school for a variety of reasons but the main reason is that there is a perceived issue with the public schools. Is it not the epitome of hypocrisy to say a school or school system is not good enough for my child's education but it is good enough for my child's sports endeavors? Talk about "having your cake and eating it to." This whole idea defies logic.

 

[patsfball]

I see both sides to this. Home schooled/private schooled families pay
the same taxes as public school families. I have heard both sides and very
good arguments from both. I know of several decent leagues that offer football
for the non public educated. The PFL (Pioneer Football League) is one.
Teams in Lake Norman, Concord, Hickory, Raleigh, Asheville, etc.

 

[crestcharger02]

Pretty petty on my part but I agree that these home school kids shouldn't be allowed to participate in public school sports. If the school isn't good enough for them then they shouldn't be able to use the sports programs either.

 

[oldtimecoach]

The paying taxes argument doesn't hold water. Just because I pay taxes doesn't entitle me to participate in anything I choose or to use any government resource I choose. If I choose not to participate in public schools, that's on me and I give up my ability to participate on public school teams. LeBron James pays taxes. He can't play high school basketball. I pay taxes. I can't live in the White House. If I choose not to get a drivers license, I can't drive on the roads I paid taxes for.

 

[Lin Stadler]

The "I pay taxes" argument is the oldest argument for this but some basic research will reveal that very little, if any, state tax dollars goes toward interscholastic athletics. 90% of the money appropriated for public schools is spent on salaries and benefits. Of the 10% that isn't I'd challenge anyone to show me where any is spent on athletics.

We do play in facilities that were financed by county tax dollars in some cases when schools were built. We do ride buses that were probably bought with state funds. The coaching supplements that are paid out are also probably from county revenue but no state money has been used at my school this year to buy uniforms and equipment, pay for security, officials, maintenance of equipment, conference dues, awards, etc.

Shall I go on?

 

[patsfball]

This is why it is state by state. Tim Tebow Bill is a prime example. Tebow was homeschooled.
Many other states have allowed this and have had success. Both sides
have valid points - obviously those in public education will always be
against this, as it is against everything they have been taught. Homeschooled
children are allowed to play at every rec, optimist league in NC. They see it
as a way to mentor children in their communities, not so much as where they
attend school.

 

[Lin Stadler]

That was part of my point patsfb. The "Tebo rule" has led to chaos in Florida. Would prefer not to go there myself.

 

[Lawn12Dog]

So how can a kid play for a school and rep that school if he does not attend there? I don't like it at all. in football weightlifting class is an extension of practice..... Obviously the home school kid would not be in this class.

 

[crestcharger02]

Originally posted by Lawn12Dog:
So how can a kid play for a school and rep that school if he does not attend there? I don't like it at all. in football weightlifting class is an extension of practice..... Obviously the home school kid would not be in this class.

In theory the homeschool kid could spend large parts of the day training for their sport. That certainly would provide an advantage over their opponents.

 

[beamer24]

It's not like there are going to be 1,000's of kids using this rule. Let them play if he's talented enough.

 

[Lin Stadler]

LOL..............and if they aren't talented we won't let them play.

Bet there will be more than you think and I bet the number of home schooled students in general will go up.

 

[btango]

I have personally had coaches tell me that students that have faced eligibility issues and the possibility of not playing would get the recommendation to home school to get the grades right. I do not know how the grading system works. As I have said since this came up a few years ago, every loophole will be utilized. That is the way things work. I think it leaves a lot of gray areas.

All I hear people complain about is "level playing field" and "we need more classifications", "1A should be schools below 450 students", et al. They talk about fairness constantly. Is this fair to the kid that attends public school. I am much more concerned about them than a student who has opted for home school or a private education.

Think about a student that goes to class every day. May be has an hour bus ride. Struggles with a class or has a weak teacher or disruptive students in his classes. He does not have the means to do private or home school but a kid that does not deal with those stresses each day has a chance to take his spot on the field.

One poster wrote that students that home school should be allowed to take what classes they want at the home district school and the others at home. They should be able to have all options available because they pay taxes. I pay taxes and do not have children and do not get a tax break as a parent does. It seems to me in this case the dogs are going to run the kennel.

 

[beamer24]

There not your kids so why do you care? I thought coaches put the most talented group on the field and the rest stood and watched? Public education at some schools is horrible, some kids learn better one on one, and some need more structure (rules). My son goes to public school mainly because I can't afford private and I want him to have the opportunity to play sports. But if he needed to be home schooled or go to private school it would be nice if he still had the opportunity to play whatever sport he wanted to.

 

[btango]

Originally posted by beamer24:
There not your kids so why do you care? I thought coaches put the most talented group on the field and the rest stood and watched?

If something does not happen to you or your kids you should not care?

Most coaches I have had conversations about this think it is a bad idea. Bad for morale, bad for how it can be used. Some do not really care but do think there will be obstacles to overcome. I expect any coach that has a superstar at home school will be excited to get him.

The larger metro areas have home school teams. I would think this would be more beneficial to home school and private students that live in smaller or more rural areas although the convenience factor will definitely be there for most urban area students.

I am waiting for the home school athlete to show up at big school that is loaded with talent and gets cut from a sports team. I expect the next bill will be that no students can be cut from a sports team when they try out.

 

[Lin Stadler]

I care for lots of reasons.

First, as a former coach (and possibly future coach) and current A.D. I know the issues we all have with eligibility. Throwing home schooled students into the mix will only make matters worse.Two- there is simply something wrong in my opinion with people that think they can always "have their cake and eat it too." A certain political party rails against those they claim are receiving entitlements but isn't the idea that one ought to be allowed to pick and choose which part of the public schools they want a form of entitlement and therefore hypocrisy. Three- Whether people in favor of this want to admit it or not cheating will increase. Someone somewhere with the means to do so will move three 6'6 kids that can run and jump into their district, "home school" them and win a state championship in basketball. Those of us that have been in education for more than a few years suspect this is already going on in with a few charter schools.Four- the education these home schooled students receive. I am friends with people that have chosen to home school their children. I have no problem with their choice. They did not insist on playing public school sports. They knew when they made the choice to home school they were forfeiting that option. At least two couples I know both spouses are college educated. Their kids are thriving and before all is said and done they will all graduate from good schools with four year degrees. On the other hand I know people that home school their children and the parents barely graduated high school. They have no business teaching their child. We've all seen some of these kids transition back to the public schools and they are so far behind they never catch up. Do we really want a system where there is so much inconsistency and little or no accountability in what is being taught. As long as someone can pass a test for them those 6'6 guys that were moved in to play basketball could play x-box all day and no one would ever know it.
The above is part of why I care. There are some other deeper reasons related to loyalty and developing home grown kids through the ranks but I would make this a novel if I took time to go there. It's long enough as is. btango has put forth some good arguments that I agree with too. I just have a problem with this issue and always will. No argument on the other side will ever change my mind.

 

[beamer24]

Your pretty closed minded. There's a lot of teachers that have no business teaching a dog how to sit. Arguments on both sides of the fence.

 

[Lin Stadler]

You are correct. I am closed minded to this issue.

There are some people in education that do us no favors. Will never argue that. It's like the old saying "a few bad apples spoil the barrel." There are idiots in every profession though.

Would argue that there are far more unqualified people home schooling their children than there are unqualified teachers in public schools. 99% of the teachers/coaches I know are competent, caring, hard working people and anyone that has been around public education for any length of time will agree.

 

[beamer24]

99% not hardy. No job has that percentage of dedicated employees.

 

[Lin Stadler]

Just said the ones I know. I've been fortunate to have worked in three schools and all three were filled with good people.

It's funny. I was recently in conversation with someone in law enforcement. This person said to me that the least respected professions today are educators and those in law enforcement. If that isn't true, it does often seem that way. I'll never argue that we don't have some idiots in both but we all end up taking a lot of crap because of the actions of a few. Most teachers, and officers of the law, are giving, dedicated people.

Whatever happens will happen. If this law passes, and I think it will eventually if not this session, we'll have to adjust. I think the cons far outweigh the pros and will never believe it's a good thing. Only time though will tell if it's the right decision. We need to look at how high school athletics have evolved in other states with similar laws. The results are mixed at best.

I've enjoyed the banter here but need to leave this alone for awhile. My last thoughts are this. One, it's too bad our current legislature feels the need to make our schools and their students guinea pigs for their social agenda. Two, lost in all this discussion is how another decision affecting public education will have been made by a group of people far removed from the reality of the classroom and in this case playing fields and/or courts, mats, etc.

 

[btango]

How about when the legislature voted on new conference alignments about six years ago and changed conferences. The NCHSAA was not even aware of it. Improved things for a couple of schools but screwed over some other schools with the ripple effect.

One of the biggest issues in America is that politicans vote on things they often no little about but vote in line with their party or to get favors on a bill that is beneficial to themselves.

 

[patsfball]

In Burke County we have many qualified parents educating their children at home.
I remember the days when people home schooled and resources weren't available.
Now, a high number of home educated kids are doing online studies that surpass
the average high school in most every subject. Public educators can't stand to admit
this is true and use one or two bad examples to build their case. Thank God for the good
public, private, and home based schools that are giving our children a quality education.
If they live in the district let them play ball.

 

[Lawn12Dog]

Hey Pats if this passes look for Emmons to be homeschooled somewhere in Boiling Springs....

 

[patsfball]

LOL

 

[FormerDog38]

Since when do you to live in a schools district to play for them in Burke County. One year a kid plays for Patton the next they are Freedom. Kids play at Heritage Middle and the end up at East Burke High School. Burke County's problems are much bigger than home school kids playing.

 

[patsfball]

What county around here isn't like that with public school kids?