Do schools like Charlotte Catholic and W-S Prep have an advantage in NCHSAA?

Discussion in '3A Football' started by Chris_Hughes, Mar 20, 2020.

  1. Chris_Hughes

    Chris_Hughes Well-Known Member
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    I know this is the age-old debate, but Langston Wertz, Nick Stevens, and I discussed the topic this week on Charlotte Preps. My personal thoughts are that schools like Catholic, Bishop McGuinness, and Cardinal Gibbons plays by the rules, albeit with a larger geographical area to pull from compared to most schools, but is W-S Prep really an educational based magnet, or does their county-wide boundary give them an advantage in athletics?

     
  2. CatholicCougs14

    CatholicCougs14 Well-Known Member
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    Oh God not this....anything but this
     
  3. Chris_Hughes

    Chris_Hughes Well-Known Member
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    I know, like I said, it's the age-old debate, but one that I think will continue to keep happening over the years. For the record, I've never had a problem with Charlotte Catholic, or any of the other non-parochial schools, but Charter schools do have some built-in advantages, and I love Nick Stevens' multiplier that he added in his proposed plan on HSOT.
     
  4. CatholicCougs14

    CatholicCougs14 Well-Known Member
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    His multiplier brings good points that are valid, another one is a separate league for Charters since there are so many. However, schools have to vote in order to change things, many just don't care enough.
     
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  5. Chris_Hughes

    Chris_Hughes Well-Known Member
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    I think that there is a need for the NCHSAA bylaws to be changed to where schools that don't vote are; 1) fined a minimum of $500, and 2) a non-vote is counted as a yes.
     
  6. davisdorm

    davisdorm Well-Known Member
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    I live in the Northwest 1-A which has both Bishop and WS Prep. The first time I watched Bishop girls warming up 16 years ago I knew they were different. Almost every JV girl was shooting “jump shots”. Prep’s roster would be 3 players 6’2”, two players 6’4”, 1 player 6’6”-6’8”. With 1 or 2 D-1 prospects. Not your typical 1-A roster!! The other high schools had specific boundaries. Forsyth County has open enrollment ( example Va Tech’s Jalen Cone started at Atkins and then went to Walkertown). Prep draws from Forsyth and more. Bishop can draw from several counties. I could gone on and on.
     
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  7. btango

    btango Well-Known Member
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    I just listened to the video. Much respect for Nick putting the effort into this project. One thing he said that seems to totally miss the point, and correct me if I misheard this, is comparing open enrollment for huge 4A schools as no different to 1A and 2A schools. The issue with charters, open enrollment, non boundary schools, Bishop McGuiness, et al is much more drastic in 1A due to the number of those schools and the difference a few players can make.
     
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  8. TVILLEDAWG2370

    TVILLEDAWG2370 Well-Known Member
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    If you were not a catholic supporter would you feel different about this,try and put yourself in someone else’s shoes,maybe you could understand a little better.

    I’m not trying to start anything I don’t care either way,I’m just a casual fan that’s putting it out there
     
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  9. CatholicCougs14

    CatholicCougs14 Well-Known Member
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    No I wouldn’t because it is so annoying. It’s every year the same old stuff that people have been saying since the 70s. It gets annoying because one thinks “How many times do we have to go over this?!”
     
  10. AhsCougar1

    AhsCougar1 Well-Known Member
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    Do students pay money to attend Charlotte Catholic?
     
  11. Lawn12Dog

    Lawn12Dog Well-Known Member
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    To be the man you gotta beat the man. I respect CC's program .....small on true athletes and big on execution and discipline . Keep pounding !
     
  12. PisgahCatamount07

    PisgahCatamount07 Well-Known Member
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    Tuition for non-participating Catholics and non-Catholics is $13,348. There is a discounted tuition for participating Catholics of $9,366.
     
  13. CatholicCougs14

    CatholicCougs14 Well-Known Member
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    Yes, and your pastor must sign a form saying you attend mass 48 to 50 weeks out of the year to get that discount, some are really strict about it too.
     
  14. AhsCougar1

    AhsCougar1 Well-Known Member
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    Sounds like a private school to me. You don’t have to pay to go to school at crest, Asheville, tuscola, Burns, Kings mountain, Shelby, watauga, McDowell, havelock, grimsley, avery county, north buncombe etc.
     
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  15. ocdavis31

    ocdavis31 Well-Known Member
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    Good point. I have respect for Charlotte Catholic. But I fail to understand why parochial schools can compete with public schools, while High Point Christian is considered a private school in a different league. Why does denomination matter?
     
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  16. Ladge

    Ladge Well-Known Member
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    This was written by another poster Remotecougar in response to a similar post:

    What people don't really understand is what the word parochial school means and why do many state charters include Catholic parochial schools but not private school in their charters. You may be surprised that there are over 7,000 catholic parochial schools in the US. At one time most of the kids that attended parochial schools ( meaning supported by the parishes) were virtually free and then were much much less expensive than private schools. Today they are still less expensive than private schools like latin, country day and Providence day but not to the extend they were two and three decades ago. For the most part catholic parochial schools function more like a public school with the same feeder elementary and junior high schools. The kids come from these schools first.

    Typically catholics make up the largest religious denomination in many parts of the country however in a location like North Carolina they are a very small denomination. As a result there is only a few parochial HS in the state mostly because of the influx of population from states that have typical Catholic populations. If a school like catholic is 90% catholic and catholics only make up 3-4% of the population than it makes sense they would take a larger area to draw its students from. That is why I laugh so much at this argument that many make about boundaries...

    On top of the insincerity of the boundaries argument does the size of the boundary even correlated to the success of sports in HS. It does seem like the most of the best teams are. from the areas that have the smallest geographic boundary. Again not a very well thought out argument.

    There is always going to be the baseless argument from the uniformed. There is a good argument for certain circumstances to not allow Catholic parochial schools but it does not exist in North Carolina.
     
  17. ocdavis31

    ocdavis31 Well-Known Member
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    According to the Private School Review, there are about 28,000 private Chriistian school students in North Carolina (exclusive of parochials) and about 12,000 in parochial schools. I still fail to understand why they are treated differently unless it’s political clout.
     
    17 ocdavis31, Mar 25, 2020
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2020
  18. btango

    btango Well-Known Member
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    I have always thought the Parochial school boundary is the religion. I think that 1A and may be the other classes should have a rule that no student from outside the geographical boundary can play sports except fir a few exceptions (parent teacher, attended the school into to a certain point before moving from the district, et al). With the Parochial schools I don’t think you should be allowed to play sports if you have not been a member of the church with some criteria for timelines and attendance.
     
  19. Ladge

    Ladge Well-Known Member
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    Political clout with 9% of the population of NC....
     
  20. ocdavis31

    ocdavis31 Well-Known Member
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    Come on Ladge. Three or four state legislators control each chamber in North Carolina. All it takes is a few well placed donations or some hometown pals or fraternity brothers and anything is doable.
    Case in point....Reidsville is the proclaimed Capital of High School Football in North Carolina, though many schools have a claim to that title. Not a knock on the Rams, as they are a great program. But to single them out...?
    So, to think that it’s about percentages is naive.
     
  21. CatholicCougs14

    CatholicCougs14 Well-Known Member
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    Ahh the same old "PRIVATE SCHOOL" comments. I'd say don't you people have anything better to do, but I guess now a days you don't.
     
    21 CatholicCougs14, Mar 25, 2020
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2020
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  22. CatholicCougs14

    CatholicCougs14 Well-Known Member
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    Also one more comment. Notice how no Mallard Creek, Dudley, New Bern, Crest fans comment on these threads? Because they've all beaten Catholic and are elite programs. Elite programs don't worry about things like this, they beat whoever is in front of them.
     
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  23. ocdavis31

    ocdavis31 Well-Known Member
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    Thomasville is 2-0 against CC. Wouldn’t be the same results today. And we’re not back to being elite. But for me, the question is out of curiosity, not jealousy. I admire the program you have. I simply don’t understand why all religious schools aren’t treated alike.
     
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  24. btango

    btango Well-Known Member
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    I agree to a point but the other religious schools are not part of a national system in place like the Parochial system has. The Parochial schools are very much like public schools for Catholics. Up until around the post war period Catholic schools were for the neighborhood parishioners and there was very little tuition if any.

    As I have written here and many times I think the "district" for Parochials should be the members of the local parishes.

    My biggest issue is not with Catholic and Cardinal Gibbons but Bishop McGuiness playing 1A along with the "non boundary" / open enrollmemnt magnets, charters, and any other Parochial school. I do think Catholic should be playing 4A although I think they are a perfect fit in their current 3A conference and those members seem to like having them.
     
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  25. BK13T-$

    BK13T-$ Well-Known Member
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    Ofcourse
     
  26. AhsCougar1

    AhsCougar1 Well-Known Member
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    If you have to pay a tuition to go to a high school, how is that not a private school?
     
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  27. BlueVols

    BlueVols Well-Known Member
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    But there would have to be a vote to change the bylaws so..........
     
  28. footsoldier

    footsoldier Well-Known Member
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    Remember we won 4A in 2015 with little 3A numbers. It’s the Charlotte Catholic way. We will always have those who use us as excuse for their shortcomings and failures(Huss) even when they steal our best players for themselves.

    We’re just better than most teams public or private without recruiting and most of these guys just can’t swallow that. That’s why they’re always blubbering. End of conversation.
     
    28 footsoldier, May 20, 2020
    Last edited: May 20, 2020
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  29. GSO-Triple5

    GSO-Triple5 Well-Known Member
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    B.I.N.G.O.
     
  30. CatholicCougs14

    CatholicCougs14 Well-Known Member
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    Footsoldier and GSO commenting on the same thread? Ironic that GSO supports a school that won its state titles made up of players from neighboring districts and counties, but go off I guess
     
  31. GSO-Triple5

    GSO-Triple5 Well-Known Member
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    Is it a natural reaction after suffering a record setting loss in the Ship that one should make such a full of bull feces statement ? If you can site examples where this occurred on the gridiron, please state from what district or " neighboring counties " Northern received students. As far as i know, there has never been a student transfer in from a " neighboring county ." Why is it such a big deal if students transfer from one learning institution in Guilford County when Charlotte and Cleveland County swap players similar to smothered and covered hash browns at the local yokel Charlotte Waffle House ?

    https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...=1kfvo9Zryn4&usg=AOvVaw18cbPB9RRYfX7HkotLHokz
     
  32. CatholicCougs14

    CatholicCougs14 Well-Known Member
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    I think we all know about Northcut(spelling) coming from Dudley. He was on their 2013 state title team and excellent at that, then magically the next season he is at Northern. I'll add more to this list later I don't have time to sit here and discuss this with someone as into goats as yourself. A good source(really good) direct quote "They had a kid from BY, Rockingham and approached several kids at Western Alamance."
    “They are pretty good, have recruited Guilford County,” Eastern Guilford coach Scott Loosemore wrote. “They have one kid that is supposed to be playing for us that is pretty good #21 I think. They also got about 8 kids from NE that would have started for them.” -Greensboro.com article Maurice and Cam Harris were in those 8.
    Either way since that "record setting loss" Catholic has won four state titles, been in seven consecutive regional finals and has one state runner-up. Since that game, NG has one title followed by mediocrity once the best recruiter in NC left via retirement. It's why you're and your goats are largely irrelevant now a days.
     
    32 CatholicCougs14, May 21, 2020
    Last edited: May 21, 2020
  33. GSO-Triple5

    GSO-Triple5 Well-Known Member
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    https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...=W13PsJZleY4&usg=AOvVaw1hGHNkSmah7Kte7jCrSb0z
     
  34. BlueDevil1996

    BlueDevil1996 Well-Known Member
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    Ik some would like to see Cardinal Gibbons n others to play up a division and I would be OK with that

    I think Catholic does things the right way and more should do what Catholic does. Catholic does play a Tough non conference n Catholic has lost to Better teams before but I do like how Catholic is discipline and always works hard to do well game in n out, I mean Beating King Mtn in 7OT is impressive
     
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  35. cimsies

    cimsies Member
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    One of the questions was if WSP has academic standards or is really an educational based institution. Well, they have been under fire the past few years for horrific test scores to the point of being taken over.
     
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  36. Doppleganger#

    Doppleganger# Well-Known Member
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    If Catholic would have played Crest in recent years. They would have blown them out to.
     
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  37. GSO-Triple5

    GSO-Triple5 Well-Known Member
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    [​IMG]
    CatholicCougs14Well-Known Member
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    Catholic is losing 4 starting OL plus 3 TEs and possibly 1 RB. The kids filling these spots, are they better than what they had last year?
    1. Only RB CC loses is a guy who came over midseason, but also played a large amount of LB. He played a big role especially in the state title game
    So it's OK if everybody and their brother transfers here and yon as long as they don't beat hell from Cathy LIck....gottcha..
     
  38. GSO-Triple5

    GSO-Triple5 Well-Known Member
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    P.S. How many South Carolina residents did Catholic have on their gridiron roster last year ? How many South Carolina residents were on Catholic's football squad the year TJ Logan outscored the Charlotte crowd ?
     
  39. GSO-Triple5

    GSO-Triple5 Well-Known Member
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    Perhaps instead of the gentleman from Dudley " magically " appearing at Northern, perhaps he and his family moved to the Northern district. With your " boundaries " that stretch from Rowan County to Spartanburg, it may be hard for you to grasp this concept. Concerning the Northeast Guilford comment, you do realize Northern and Northeast adjoin real, drawn in the sand boundaries, unlike the Metrolina Cougars. If Mister Roscoe was the best recruiter in North Carolina, whom, in your opinion, is the second best recruiter ?
    P.S. How much is out of state tuition at Catholic ?
     
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  40. CatholicCougs14

    CatholicCougs14 Well-Known Member
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    I like how wonders89 liked this, I can deal with GSO and his goats, but wonders89 I'm giving it until September then he'll get banned for trashing Newsome.
     

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