Dear NCHSAA

[btango]

OK then is strength of schedule not a component of computer rankings? That in itself is subjective.

A computer can deduce that playing in conference X is a tougher road than playing in conference Y but however if that was the main criteria for such rankings why doesn't conference X always have participant in championship games?

Playoffs at all levels come down to matchups I know but to say conference champions are only qualifiers and everyone else is thrown in wildcard pack then some conferences that your non subjective computer values higher would dominate and the screaming from the rest would be deafening.

Do I have the perfect solution? No but as I have stated I truly believe doing well in one's conference should carry more weight than a computer program, subjective or not, based 3000 miles away.

I did not consider Strength of Schedule to be subjective as it would be derived from the success of opponents per the power rankings. If Maxpreps were in Raleigh would that change the formula? No.

Guarantee playoff spots to the first and second place teams. In 2A that is 36 teams (I think). 37-64 are wild card teams. Do you prefer seeding the teams champions first and then second place teams with wildcard to follow? That is one of the complaints, a SP is playing Hibriten in the second round.

Some coaches think they should play one less regular season game and allow every team in the playoffs. Some think the season is too long and it should drop a round. Some think eight champions are not enough. Actually had a 1A coach tell me when the divide was 25% x 4 that their class should be subdivided into thirds instead of two halves although 1A had 20 less football playing schools.

 

[btango]

See I am torn on that one. Baseball can be played against larger schools by smaller ones but it has become more difficult since the pitch count rules.

ER latest ADM has them with only 2 other teams below them in 2A. Playing against teams with almost 400 more students is problematic in that their quality pitchers could be three or four deep versus two deep.

However as I have mentioned before I am old and I think a good 2A baseball team can beat any other good 2A baseball team on any given night, regardless of size. Competitively I don't think there is as big a gap as in football.

Of course it is baseball so you and I (and tarheelg) might be the only ones who care.

Coaches want to go to three series for each round instead of the regional and state final. They think subdividing will allow this. My thought is that only knocks out one round/one game and they are looking to potentially add nine. I think they subdivide but not with the playoffs structure they want.

Personally I think with the pitch count schools should be allowed to play more games in the regular season. Might allow them to develop more pitching.

 

[btango]

These are off my memory so I may be a bit off but tough to research on a phone.

2018 state finalist
1A. Murphy beat West Columbus. Murphy was the smallest 1AA school in the football playoffs. Four of six seasons they have been small 1A. West Columbus has 450 students on average which is small. Murphy is always right at 500 or below.
2A. Whiteville beat Ledford. Whiteville small 2A. Ledford's numbers off due to the opening of the new school. They will be a smaller big 2A when the students are fully transitioned which does not matter for 2018. Whiteville beat small 2A South Granville in the east. Ledford beat big 2A North Lincoln.
3A. New Hanover beat Crest. New Hanover big 3A. Crest is small 3A. NH is a county wide magnet which can hurt or help. More students that do not play sports percentage wise but players can show up there and will if the team is a winner. This a problem the NCHSAA must address but it is normal in urban areas that students cross district lines.
Crest beat AC Reynolds, big 3A. New Hanover beat small 3A Terry Sanford.
4A. Fuquay beat Ardrey Kell. Fuquay would is the 21st largest 4A school so they are big 4A. They would be 150 students over the big/small split. Kell is big. FV beat Apex, the 40th (of 77) largest 4A school. AK beat East Forsyth a small 4A school.
If they subdivide it should only be 1A and 4A due to size discrepancy but they should look at reducing qualifying teams especially in 4A due to only 77 schools.

 

[SimmonsRatings]

I would prefer we go to 6 classifications with smaller 1A and 6A and don't subdivide any sports.

 

[BlueRidgeTire]

Playoff games are $8 this year and I think it was moved up per round last year. If they need money just make the game all $10-$15. Kids cheaper of course. I don't mind paying that much to watch football. Go to a movie and $15 don't get 2 people in the door. I may be way off base here but I look at rosters and that kind of helps decide what a team has. Hibriten has the #2 seed and plays a fairly easy schedule. That gives them home games until round 4 unless #1 goes down. It doesn't appear strength of schedule hurt us much. Maybe they can tweak it a bit to make the playoffs more competitive later. Hibriten vs South Point in round 2 is a bit of a surprise. The winner has a seemingly easier 3rd round game. It would be nice to have gotten SP in 3rd round. SP a #10 at 8-3 does seem off quite a bit.

 

[thekidd12]

I did not consider Strength of Schedule to be subjective as it would be derived from the success of opponents per the power rankings. If Maxpreps were in Raleigh would that change the formula? No.

Guarantee playoff spots to the first and second place teams. In 2A that is 36 teams (I think). 37-64 are wild card teams. Do you prefer seeding the teams champions first and then second place teams with wildcard to follow? That is one of the complaints, a SP is playing Hibriten in the second round.

Some coaches think they should play one less regular season game and allow every team in the playoffs. Some think the season is too long and it should drop a round. Some think eight champions are not enough. Actually had a 1A coach tell me when the divide was 25% x 4 that their class should be subdivided into thirds instead of two halves although 1A had 20 less football playing schools.

Derived from the success of opponents is where I get hung up. What is the base line of this system?
If opponents beat teams then who says the teams those teams beat are strong?

Your record is what it is at the end of the year. Strength of schedule used to be something that would show up in playoff success not something that would guarantee a high seed. Yes I agree two good teams are playing in 2nd round. A lot of people wish it was 3rd round.

This occurred because, and yes I DO agree with this aspect, conference champions were seeded then runners up followed and others in wild card.

As I have said before this puts emphasis on conference finish which is the way it should be (in my opinion).

 

[88dodgers]

Cut the regular season by 2 weeks, add all the teams then there should be no complaining.......right.

 

[thekidd12]

Coaches want to go to three series for each round instead of the regional and state final. They think subdividing will allow this. My thought is that only knocks out one round/one game and they are looking to potentially add nine. I think they subdivide but not with the playoffs structure they want.

Personally I think with the pitch count schools should be allowed to play more games in the regular season. Might allow them to develop more pitching.

I think eventually they will subdivide but series may remain only in semis and finals.

The only problem I see with developing more quality pitchers in smaller schools is there ain't that many walking the hallways.

 

[btango]

I remember one loss Butler rematching was undefeated Indy in second round several times. Undefeated Indy being seeded behind two teams that dropped a loss. Albemarle or Thomasville playing a barn burner to close out the season with one of them getting a lone loss only to rematch two weeks later. Last year it was South Point v Shelby and SP v Hibriten. These are the reasons I have always preferred something more to seeding.

 

[btango]

Cut the regular season by 2 weeks, add all the teams then there should be no complaining.......right.

One week is all that is needed but it is not who gets in but the seeding being the issue. If the 49th or 63rd team are complaining I am not to concerned.

 

[thekidd12]

I remember one loss Butler rematching was undefeated Indy in second round several times. Undefeated Indy being seeded behind two teams that dropped a loss. Albemarle or Thomasville playing a barn burner to close out the season with one of them getting a lone loss only to rematch two weeks later. Last year it was South Point v Shelby and SP v Hibriten. These are the reasons I have always preferred something more to seeding.

Not to nitpick, and you know much more about this than me, but were a lot of these rematches during the "pod system" playoffs? Again I do not know.

 

[btango]

Not to nitpick, and you know much more about this than me, but were a lot of these rematches during the "pod system" playoffs? Again I do not know.

No. Pod system was in place 2010-2012. 1A May have kept it in place another year or so. The coaches voted on implementing it and the Board reveiwed and voted with them. The coaches voted against it so overwhelming the Board did not even vote on removing it but just dropped it.

 

[sprawl]

First of all, you don't ask coaches how to seed. 9 out of 10 of them don't know how to coach!
We all know, or should know that a 5 and 6 conference champion should not be seeded 1st. It should only qualify them for an objective seeding process.
Does anyone have the authority to do it right????

 

[btango]

First of all, you don't ask coaches how to seed. 9 out of 10 of them don't know how to coach!
We all know, or should know that a 5 and 6 conference champion should not be seeded 1st. It should only qualify them for an objective seeding process.
Does anyone have the authority to do it right????

NCHSAA works with the coaches and schools on proposals. The Board of Directors then votes.

The people that are involved normally have a say to some extent. As I have learned, what appears to be right often ends up not being right or at least right for many. Basically cannot please every one but change is needed in my opinion.