NCHSAA, It only took 1 Round of the 2018 NC High School football playoffs for your ignorance to be exposed. Eventually the best teams will win regardless of how screwed up you bracketed these teams. Please in the future ask some wineo to help you sort it out before you make a mess of the system the way you did this year.
Dear NCHSAA
- Thread starter Raidersway
- Start date
Did the NCAA screw things up when a 16 seed beat #1 seed Virginia last year in the tournament...asking for a friend
The NCHSAA committed a personal foul and should be ejected for at least 2 years.
It took the NCAA #16 teams more than 300 attempts before beating a #1 seed.
It took the NCHSAA #16 team 1 attempt to beat a #1 seed.
Think about it.
Pretty much. They are absolute trash and have no idea what they are no doing. NONE.
Very simple problem with a very simple fix that was presented to the coaches / schools to vote on.
Conference champion is automatic qualifier. We all agree on that. The question that was voted on:
1. Do you seed all conference champions first?
2. Do you seed strictly by power poll finish, ie basically every one is an at large seed after qualifying?
Coaches / schools voted for number one. They followed that up by electing to seed all second place teams next and then all third place teams.
Example of how this plays out by guaranteeing a conference champion a number one seed: In 4AA a 5-6 team wins their conference and gets a first round bye. Second place team in the toughest conference in the state finished 10-1 losing to most people's favorite to win the state 4AA title. They play a first round game and go on the road to the 5-6 team in round two.
NCHSAA requested 1A and 4A to subdivide 32 teams and play four rounds with no byes. Coaches voted no.
Easy to blame the NCHSAA but remember almost every item is presented to the schools through the Board of Directors, Regional meetings, and their respective coaches association.
Conference champion is automatic qualifier. We all agree on that. The question that was voted on:
1. Do you seed all conference champions first?
2. Do you seed strictly by power poll finish, ie basically every one is an at large seed after qualifying?
Coaches / schools voted for number one. They followed that up by electing to seed all second place teams next and then all third place teams.
Example of how this plays out by guaranteeing a conference champion a number one seed: In 4AA a 5-6 team wins their conference and gets a first round bye. Second place team in the toughest conference in the state finished 10-1 losing to most people's favorite to win the state 4AA title. They play a first round game and go on the road to the 5-6 team in round two.
NCHSAA requested 1A and 4A to subdivide 32 teams and play four rounds with no byes. Coaches voted no.
Easy to blame the NCHSAA but remember almost every item is presented to the schools through the Board of Directors, Regional meetings, and their respective coaches association.
Put a number on it for me. What percentage is it the nchsaa fault? What percentage is it #1 fault for losing to #16?
The pre determined brackets in the past, had to be the worst format.
I like the fact that you reward teams based on where they finished in the conference. That's why conference games mean more. If everyone was at large after qualifying, then there would be no need for conferences. The 5-6 team won their conference and should have been rewarded like they were. It's true that some conferences are tougher than others to win, but with realignment every four years, they always change. The Eastern Plains used to have Tarboro, SWE, and Kinston, teams that only lost to each other. Now, it's a 1 trick pony. But I like conference games meaning something.
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NCHSAA does suck but if the people in power keep voting the way they do very little will ever change. Sounds about right in the state of NC...
4-7 Cummings got a home game by finishing second in the conference.
And shocked the world by taking down an 8-3 team.
I will take this opportunity to toot our own horn. Perhaps after Reidsville took them to the woodshed last week, the game looked like it was in slow motion.
Ask Southern Alamance how important conference games are. At 9-2 they were on the road last night. Lost a heartbreaker I might add.
And shocked the world by taking down an 8-3 team.
I will take this opportunity to toot our own horn. Perhaps after Reidsville took them to the woodshed last week, the game looked like it was in slow motion.
Ask Southern Alamance how important conference games are. At 9-2 they were on the road last night. Lost a heartbreaker I might add.
5-6 team was Ardrey Kell. They were outscored 180-275. 0-5 non conference with three of those losses to 3A schools two of which are powerhouses(!). Did not beat a team with a winning record (5-6, 3-8,0-11, 3-8, 2-9). Conference champions. Won a draw for first with two other teams. They beat a 5-6 team by a point and lost to an 8-2 by 35-0.
No offense to Pisgah but getting a #1 seed can't make sense to anyone yet the NCHSAA found away to do it. South Point gets a 10 seed finishing 2nd behind Shelby in the conference and are clearly one of the top 2A teams in the state. Smoky Mtn seeded 8th is beat by almost 40 points at home by the 9th seed. These scenarios are rampant throughout 1A, 2A,3A, and 4A playoffs this year. Teams are clearly not seeded accurately based on who are the better teams. NCHSAA has the responsibility to come up with a format that seeds teams based on best to worst and this was the poorest example I have ever witnessed. It's embarrassing that they are this far off the mark.
That is what I am talking about. The NCHSAA is responsible for allowing those situations to exist.
The fault lies only in determining who is #1.
The format for allowing that situation to exist is your very own NCHSAA.
I Love it! We have the home field for the remainder of the playoffs so long as we win! Good job NCHSAA
That exact scenario was voted on by the schools / coaches for how to seed. They selected to seed all conference champions first. If the NCHSAA would have went against the schools / coaches wishes then that would have been the complaint.
Prior years, it would have been conference champion seed first based on record with one loss dropped if the team played 11 games. The one loss drop was a result of the schools requesting it several years ago.
I don't see that it matters. The best are going to win and go to state anyhow. It all works out in the end
Yeah, but Cummings played one of those clueless coached teams out of RobCo.
As bad as I hate to, I have to agree with this. St. Pauls was not a good team. Nobody expected them to win a game in the playoffs until they saw it was Cumings they were paired with. Then I figured it was about 50/50.
There’s no perfect way, however, at the end, the best team wins...
I did not like how after the fall season for 2017, the playoff format changed for the winter sports. For basketball they allowed teams in the play offs based off their conference finish. There were many teams that didn’t make the play offs due to their conf finish, even though in the “Maxpreps” rankings were much higher then some that made it
I did not like how after the fall season for 2017, the playoff format changed for the winter sports. For basketball they allowed teams in the play offs based off their conference finish. There were many teams that didn’t make the play offs due to their conf finish, even though in the “Maxpreps” rankings were much higher then some that made it
To many teams in playoffs period. Season is too long,including playoffs. Only 2 best teams from each conf. to playoffs. Used to be like that. Great football,no blow outs 1 round.
Thats not true. There were blowouts. So,you think the ECC should have had only two teams. I have to call BS on that
Only conference champion should be guaranteed. Get the proper power poll in place and complete the brackets with the highest rated teams.
See that's the thing...
Power polls are subjective. Even the almighty Maxpreps has caused part of this uproar.
The conference of my avatar has come under fire on these boards for being weak. And yet two of those teams could very well meet in 3rd round guaranteeing one in 4th. Sorry I still prefer conference finish being of importance. If you aren't in top two bite your fingernails waiting with the rest.
Nobody REALLY knows how other teams would do in different conferences. They all just THINK they do. That's the problem with subjectivity and strength of schedule polls in HS anything.
Too many teams in the playoffs yes. But plenty of blowouts. The biggest problem is the lack of common sense. To the NCHSAA it's all the money.
If it is only about money for the NCHSAA why did they request 1A and 4A to go cut their qualifying teams in half and go to a four round playoff? Same request about six years ago with 1A when the alignment left them with less than 80 football playing schools.
They had no choice but to cut the qualification just from the mere lack of participants otherwise the 1A and 4A playoffs would have been deluted with 1-10/ 0-11 playoff teams. The Girl Scouts of America could have made that call. The point remains that they will drag things out as far as they possibly can without exposing themselves but this year they drug it a bit too far.
Power Polls
Computer Power polls are absolutely NOT SUBJECTIVE. They are based on actual results and whether a team under or overperforms vs expections re competition.
Subjective would include personal feelings or a "voters" opinion(s). I do not see how the Maxpreps poll would be subjective. It is a computer program that strictly uses data. The standard Maxpreps poll did not seem so out of line. The adjusted NCHSAA did seem to go off the rails a bit. I had pushed power polls for years with the idea to use two or three national ones on a cumulative set up and possibly include one or two more "local" ones which is a long the lines of what the NCAA had used before.
I have thought Randleman is one of the best teams in the state all season and Wheatmore a team to watch. If Wheatmore does not beat West Stanly then Wheatmore is not a good team. I expect the PAC is much like most conferences. It like the Foothills, where Patton is, are both top heavy with a heavyweight although Hibriten is a super heavy.
The issue is not who is qualifying but where they are being seeded. Second and third place teams guaranteed a seed.
64 teams qualify. 18 conference champions are automatic qualifiers. If a team is not strong enough to be one of the 46 at large teams to qualify with the power poll then they probably should not be in a playoff any way.
I personally would be more than fine for the power poll I have mentioned to be used to select 14 qualifiers to be added to the 18 conference champions and have four round playoffs for each 2A and 3A subdivision.
What have they drug out too far this time?
The first time the NCHSAA requested dropping was with 1A into the last realignment. 1A schools were strong in their displeasure. Prior to last football season NCHSAA requested 1A and 4A go to 32 teams. They both pushed back very strong and eventually settled on 48 teams which results in the same number of games. The NCHSAA is not making a large amount of money from first round playoff games. It seems to me the schools want the potential to make money off a playoff game and the coaches want the potential extra week(s) to practice. Some say the coaches like the resume add on but I think that may be a bit of a push although I have seen a resume that list every school the the coach had coached made the playoffs. I know some of those teams had losing records but his resume was truthful.
The baseball coaches just recently voted to subdivide their playoffs starting in 2020. Depending on the vote they will present it to the Board of Directors. If that one subdivides get ready because every non football sport will do likewise.
OK then is strength of schedule not a component of computer rankings? That in itself is subjective.
A computer can deduce that playing in conference X is a tougher road than playing in conference Y but however if that was the main criteria for such rankings why doesn't conference X always have participant in championship games?
Playoffs at all levels come down to matchups I know but to say conference champions are only qualifiers and everyone else is thrown in wildcard pack then some conferences that your non subjective computer values higher would dominate and the screaming from the rest would be deafening.
Do I have the perfect solution? No but as I have stated I truly believe doing well in one's conference should carry more weight than a computer program, subjective or not, based 3000 miles away.
My point Mule is a computer can only calculate data that is inputted. Yes it can rank a team because it beat another then adjust those rankings based on the succeeding games.
However my point is I guess to use an example from NCAA, Big Ten is almost always considered a very tough conference in college basketball. Their computer based strength of schedules are usually near the top in country. Then more often than not most of their teams are gone before second weekend.
These strength of schedule components are what bother me the most because you don't know until they play other teams. And as I said above I know many times it comes down to matchups in playoffs.
See I am torn on that one. Baseball can be played against larger schools by smaller ones but it has become more difficult since the pitch count rules.
ER latest ADM has them with only 2 other teams below them in 2A. Playing against teams with almost 400 more students is problematic in that their quality pitchers could be three or four deep versus two deep.
However as I have mentioned before I am old and I think a good 2A baseball team can beat any other good 2A baseball team on any given night, regardless of size. Competitively I don't think there is as big a gap as in football.
Of course it is baseball so you and I (and tarheelg) might be the only ones who care.
They suck. My team is 10-1 and has to travel 2 1/2 hrs to play a 7-4 team. Makes no sense.
Maybe we can subdivide until there are just three or four teams in each division... like cheerleading.
Is it me, or does every gym I walk into have a state championship cheerleading banner?
Is it me, or does every gym I walk into have a state championship cheerleading banner?
