Three years? Crest went to 4A in the 1985 alignment. The tenth season in 4A they won the state title. The five years prior to going 4A they were 11-2, 9-2, 10-1, 10-1, and 8-2. The first five years in 4A the record was 5-5, 2-8, 6-5, 5-5, and 4-6. They would repeat the 4-6 before having their first strong season in 4A in 1991 going 8-3. From the opening in 1967 until the 11-2 in 1980 they were not very good.If Crest numbers returned to 4A level, then yes, they probably would. They have dominated 3A since moving back down in 2001, with Title Game appearances in 01, 03, 04, 10, 11, 13, 14, and 15. Only Northern Guilford has matched Crest with 4 Championships during that time period, and NG has no other appearances.
But a more compelling and interesting reason as to why Crest, with 4A numbers, would dominate is the ease in which they entered 4A and won big almost immediately from 1991 to 2000. For 23 years from 1968 to 1990, Crest as a 3A program failed to make a Title Game. Yet, after only 3 seasons in 4A, they won the unified 4A State Championship in 1994 and repeated as champs again in 1996. INCORRECT.
How can that be?
The answer is obvious and is what we have said now for years.
4A football competition in NC is extremely weak. The weakest by far of all four classifications. And the 4A class has significantly less schools in it. It is not that difficult to make it to the top. INCORRECT.
Nor is it that hard to stay there (see Indy's 7 straight).
Crest's lack of success in 3A prior to becoming 4A is a clear competition factor also. FALSE.
And a case could be made that Crest's success upon returning to 3A in 2001 has been aided by student population and thus classification shifts by other former nemeses.
It is so obvious to any objective observer.
Nice debate....who mentioned 2A? You can't even carry on a debate with us. You see our name and lock up....I guess we are that much in your head.We all know this is jus a 2a troll trying to compare his 2a team 2 the 4a in his own jaded way by saying the 4a is "weak".
Three years? Crest went to 4A in the 1985 alignment. The tenth season in 4A they won the state title. The five years prior to going 4A they were 11-2, 9-2, 10-1, 10-1, and 8-2. The first five years in 4A the record was 5-5, 2-8, 6-5, 5-5, and 4-6. They would repeat the 4-6 before having their first strong season in 4A in 1991 going 8-3. From the opening in 1967 until the 11-2 in 1980 they were not very good.
After winning the 4A title in 1996 Crest was 11-3, 6-6, and then lost in the first round of the playoffs in 1999 and 2000 with 10-2 and 11-1 records. First year back in 3A they lost in the title game the year before subdividing.
4A had the same amount of teams as the other classes (1A had less football playing) since the 1985 alignment.
Pre 1977 and through 1985 1A and 4A had less schools. 2A and 3A had around 100 teams in each classification. Schools that would have been 4A with an even split played 3A and schools that would be 1A with a 25% alignment played 2A.
Northern Guilford's first year of football was 2009.
Nice try at trapping us, btango. Gotta do better than that.Do you now consider the 4A state title less worthy than even before because there are only 75 schools instead of about 115?
For Crest to go 4A for only 16 years and win the UNIFIED title in year 10 and 12 is incredibly strong. That is 12.5% of them.At least we no longer are pushing the fallacy of Crest's immeidate domination of 4A or the false claim that they did better in 4A than 3A.
Because, as usual with all of your personalities, it's just simply not true.Btango-
Why do you insist on never telling the whole story?
The change from 64 teams to 48 teams JUST OCCURRED IN MAY. Up until now it has been 64 teams out of 75 made the playoffs. You know that yet you do not inform the readers of that. Why?
As stated previously Crest was not very strong from 1967-1980. Most schools, not all, are not powerhouse teams the first years they are open. Using records from when Coach Taylor took over in 1979 seemed to be logical.For Crest to go 4A for only 16 years and win the UNIFIED title in year 10 and 12 is incredibly strong. That is 12.5% of them.
They have won 4 titles in 34 years as 3A. 11.8% and all subdivided 3A. Hmmm..
But let's look closer at those 16 years Crest was in a UNIFIED 4A. It may expose some things. Even with Richmond Senior claiming 5 (five) titles in that period, 11 (eleven) different programs won the UNIFIED 4A title, with Crest as the ONLY other multiple winner.
Now THAT is competition.
In the 16 years since 2000, only 7 (seven) different programs have claimed 4AA titles, 3 with multiple titles and another 3 who won previously between 1985 and 2000.
And that is it.
Indy doesn't count anymore so
you got about 5 or 6 top programs and then the entire rest of the field that couldn't win 3A or even 2A.
But a couple of more recent examples close the case.
Charlotte Catholic goes from 3A to 4A in 2013. They promptly go the 4A title game in 2014 and then return to win it in 2015. Now they are back to 3A. Explain that one.
Finally back to Crest.
There was more than one casual observer that felt the 2013-15 versions of Crest would have played very competitively with anyone at the top of 4A. To deny that is just to deny good solid football.
A public school with 1250 students shouldn't even be in the conversation of playing competitively with a public school of 2600 students.
But they are......
That information cannot be correct. Before they met in the 2012 4A DI title game Dutch Fork beat White Knoll and Gaffney had beaten Ashely Ridge. They are not on the list. Stratford and Irmo, both not on the list, also played in the DI playoffs. Conway, on the list, played in the DII playoffs. Those were probably the largest 16 schools in the state but SC was not doing the playoffs any longer under the "old" Big 16 format.btango- "several years ago" and "different facets"??
From SCHSL page in Wikipedia-
Football at the AAAA level is subdivided into two divisions (I and II). Division I schools are the sixteen largest schools in the state by enrollment, and the division is often referred to as the Big 16. For the 2012-2014 period, the following schools are in the Big 16.
Wando High School
Dorman High School
Lexington High School
Summerville High School
Sumter High School
Boiling Springs High School
James F. Byrnes High School
Blythewood High School
Spring Valley High School
Hillcrest High School
Mauldin High School
Fort Dorchester High School
Gaffney High School
Dutch Fork High School
Ridgeview High School
Carolina Forest High School
Conway High School
I do not agree with the playoff system now nor the last 16 years.btango-
Your blab of info doesn't change anything.
4A football in NC has weak competition amongst themselves, has far less schools in the class now, and will have less playoff challenges to win a championship.
And the teams can't play up against a higher class and rarely play outside NC to prove differently.
Shaking our heads.
As far as BIG 16, take it up with Wiki. It was still an absurd playoff format.
Speaking of absurd playoff formats, correct us here if we are mistaken.
Starting in 2017 in NC, 4AA and 4A will have 24 teams each in the playoffs, correct?
They will be seeded by MaxPreps (or whoever), with the top EIGHT SEEDS receiving First Round BYES into the Second Round. Third Round is the Regional Finals (semis), and the Championship Title game is the Fourth Round.
Assuming most years the Champion will come from the top eight seeds, THE NC 4AA STATE CHAMPION ONLY PLAYS THREE PLAYOFF GAMES ?!?
You're kidding us.
And the 3A, 3AA and 2A, 2AA Champions HAVE TO PLAY 5 PLAYOFF GAMES. Hmm....
Time to trot out out the WNCHSAA title validity debate AGAIN.
42 teams and 3 (three) rounds of playoffs. Mocked as far too small to be considered "state champions".
38 teams and effectively 3 (three) rounds of playoffs.
Reidsville just won a small 2A titleAs stated previously Crest was not very strong from 1967-1980. Most schools, not all, are not powerhouse teams the first years they are open. Using records from when Coach Taylor took over in 1979 seemed to be logical.
Using the state titlist since subdividing started in 2002 (2A-4A) the breakdown is very similar for the four sub-classes and the same for the overall classification combined. 4A and 2AA had nine schools win a title while 2A had eight and 4A the seven you mentioned. Combined the two overall classes had 15 different schools to win a state title.
4A (9): Rose 4, ACR 2, New Bern 2, Dudley 2, Hoggard 1, 71st 1, Hillside 1, Scotland 1, Catholic 1.
4AA (7): Indy 6, Butler 3, Mallard Creek 3, New Bern 1, Richmond 1, Page 1, Wake Forest 1.
2A (8): Shelby 3, Tarboro 3, Cummings 2, SW Onslow 2, Clinton 1, Lincolnton 1, New Cononver 1, East Lincoln 1.
2AA (9): Reidsville 5, Shelby 3, Catholic 1, Salisbury 1, West Stokes 1, South Iredell 1, HP Andrews 1, East Lincoln 1, Monroe 1.
Note 3A and 3AA each had nine different schools win a state title with a total of 15 schools, identical to 2A and 4A.
From 1985 through 2000 (new alignment for 2001 season) there were eleven different state championship schools in 4A as you wrote. In 2A there were eleven state champions with Clinton and Thomasville winning three each and Lexington two. The two classes were identical in overall championship schools.
Charlotte Catholic lost by 45 and 20 to 4AA state champion Mallard Creek in 2013 and 2014. First one was a physical beatdown and the other was pretty much decided by the half. Give Catholic credit for taking the game and the RH Northwestern matchup.
Crest repping the west in the 4AA title game in 2014 or 2015? Note I did not include 2013. Their non conference foes (Ashbrook, South Point, and TC Rob) and a 2A/3A split conference make it tough to make the comparison. I would say no but there is always the possibility that would have happened. Good chance to win the 4A title. Not much difference in enrollments between the western teams that won a 4A title and Crest.
Good post, Crestuff. You're right, things change. Many of the current powerhouses didn't even exist in the 1990s, and for the ones that did, redistricting and changing demographics has permanently altered many of their competitive landscapes. Closer to town, Indy spawned Butler and Rocky River. North Meck spawned Mallard Creek and Hough. In addition to Crest, it's hard to imagine how good those programs would be these days if they had not been divied up due to changing population centers.If Crest could get back all the neighborhoods it's lost since its last 4a chip they would have no problem with anyone. Burns has benifited from the Kingstown neighborhood and Shelby has benefited from the Laurel Hills( hollyoak) and Light Oak area ...Crest got some prime atheletes from these areas in the 90's