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Winning at small schools?

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bigtime_87

Well-Known Member
Oct 3, 2014
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What is the formula for success at the small schools like Swain, Robbinsville, Murphy, Starmount, Albemarle, WRH, Plymouth, etc that win year after year. I know some of them have top notch coaching, great athletes, and tradition. But not all of them do, so what is about those small football communities that sets them apart from the others? I see some small schools that have the same kind of kids or the potential, but just struggle to compete, much less win.

Thoughts Please?
 
Its the culture of the community. Can't speak for down east but the common denominator for the mountain communities is small, close knit, a history of success, no competition from soccer as an alternate sport yet, and good-great coaches.

You don't want to let dad and uncle and cousin down that won state or region or conference.
 
Originally posted by BK13T-$:
We dont have a feeder school at all.
Click to expand...
Huh? I thought Robbinsville's 7-8 grade students were on campus? Are you saying those kids don't play football at all before high school?
 
Starmount's middle school runs what the high school team runs.
 
Tradition and community support play a huge role as mentioned above but the main thing at small schools for the kids and the parents is football has to be a matter of civic duty. At 1A and 2A schools you cannot have your best athletes specialize in baseball and basketball!!! I cannot speak for Swain, Robbinsville, and Starmount but I am willing to bet kids grow up in those communities looking at baseball and basketball as fun sports to play and football as war and if you are able body you play!!! The kids learn at an early age that beating teams in football is a lot more rewarding than other sports because you work a lot harder for it.

And yes a common denominator with the successful programs are the feeder programs starting with little league being on the same page as the high school program. Another bit of advice I wold offer little league coaches out there is that you are not only developing young football players. You are also developing football parents and it is very important that they realize football is different than other sports. Football is intense!! Coaches yell!!! They have to realize that their little darlings may come home with bruises and it is ok. They also have to realize successful High School programs have huge commitment and support from parents and that starts in little league.
 
Yeah 7th,8th and 9th play JV ball. Robbinsville is a k-12. I meant we dont have a other middle schools feeding us. Some schools are k-12 and they also have East elementary and West ele feeding into them.
 
You got to have the "Jimmy's & the Joe's!" Everything else is just gravy. If you don't have athletes, you will always have an uphill battle. You can do all the right things mentioned above and be competitive but winning year in & year out won't happen against the schools that have them. (Ref: Thomasville) Top notch small school program that not to long ago would've been automatically on the list of schools that started this thread but the well ran dry for a bit.
It's the Mr. Ed theory, "no matter who trains or rides him, he ain't gonna win the Kentucky Derby!"

JMHO

TW
 
I think what is being ment by feeder bk is youth football programs feeding up to varisty. I know robbinsville has these as does all of the other SMC teams. Feeder isnt how many actually school buildings you have.
 
Originally posted by BK13T-$:
Yeah 7th,8th and 9th play JV ball. Robbinsville is a k-12. I meant we dont have a other middle schools feeding us. Some schools are k-12 and they also have East elementary and West ele feeding into them.
Click to expand...
Those are feeder schools and programs BK. You know Cracker Bowl League. Catch up here.
 
There are tons of variables that allow the schools mentioned to be successful year in and year out. You can start with tradition or you can start with a system that's put into place that allows these programs to use their athletes to their fullest potential. These are only to name a couple. Community plays a major part because its a "Support" system that benefits the kids, not only on the field, but off the field.

I can only speak for Albemarle, but we weren't that good for a while until Jack Gaster came along. He got the youth program started I believe and the rest is history. Albemarle has always had community support but not like they have had in the past. Albemarle has an abundance of athletes. They're gonna be in it year in and year out...
 
Originally posted by BK13T-$:
Yeah 7th,8th and 9th play JV ball. Robbinsville is a k-12. I meant we dont have a other middle schools feeding us. Some schools are k-12 and they also have East elementary and West ele feeding into them.
Click to expand...
Technically it's "jr. high ball" as in a middle school team that allows 9th graders to play down, so you could say that's a feeder school program. just a thought.
This post was edited on 12/10 9:53 AM by ObserveAndReport
 
Only if they stay elgible SWAY yea I said it lol . I heard the BB team only dressed 8 the other night because of grades. WHERE DOES THIS END
 
Originally posted by gal durnit:
Originally posted by BK13T-$:
Yeah 7th,8th and 9th play JV ball. Robbinsville is a k-12. I meant we dont have a other middle schools feeding us. Some schools are k-12 and they also have East elementary and West ele feeding into them.
Click to expand...
Those are feeder schools and programs BK. You know Cracker Bowl League. Catch up here.
Click to expand...
Gal or other SMC bretheren over that direction, I have two questions...

1) Do y'all still have the rule in place that 8th graders have to play JVs and cannot stay down and play youth ball?

2) Do you guys play with a weight limit in youth league? I thought at one time you guys did not and just had the restriction on the size of the kids that could be in the backfield.
 
Originally posted by js2000:

Only if they stay elgible SWAY yea I said it lol . I heard the BB team only dressed 8 the other night because of grades. WHERE DOES THIS END
Click to expand...
Don't panic or jump ship just yet. Sometimes you have to "clean house" & set higher standards for your student/athletes. Some will conform & some won't. Play with those who will. A new principal with an athletic background would be another move in the right direction along with coaching up your AD to not pass the blame for his own negligence. Tough place to coach right now.

TW
 
@JS It's amazing but, I for once have to agree with TW on this one lol. I rather play with 8 average kids than play with "Studs" with no disciple. It just seems that the educational system is broken at Albemarle. I don't know how we got to this point, but I believe it starts with the Board of Education, hell they over see everything and with those two "Idiots" gone, things will get better. Matter of fact, I went to the FB page of that one guy who was all for the "Western" part of the county. He goes on to say in a post that the two newly elected members are going to do what "Albemarle Wants To Do"......are you Fing kidding me. That guy cared nothing for the education of "Our" kids.....nothing. We just have to clean house....and start all over again.
 
Agreed. With a lot of discipline, smart x's and o's, a great strength and speed program and a little administrative support a small school can be ultra competitive and become winners.

A school like Albemarle who has the athletes can be championship calibre every year if the above criteria is in place.

This post was edited on 12/10 11:21 AM by DKJ
 
Sway,

Albemarle could win 10 games a year with you coaching them!!
laugh.r191677.gif


TW
 
Sway I agree, time will tell, but I believe the 2 new board of education members will be a big plus for the system as a whole. The 2 that got defeated have got the current school system in the mess it is in. They were, especially the one , anti-Albemarle and pro-West Stanly.
The board has to be for the best of all the schools in the system and not bias in favor of one school. This has been a problem since consolidation. It is time for the board, the adminastrators, the principals and everybody to work together for once in their lives.
 
@TW Yeah 5 in the regular season and 5 in the post season....that sounds about right don't you think?

@Buddy, yeah that one guy made a post after his defeat, after I read it I was like "Cry me a River". I have heard people express their feeling towards the educational "Implode" at AHS. The City of Albemarle will not let that school be shutdown as some may want it too.
 
Originally posted by sway1532:
@TW Yeah 5 in the regular season and 5 in the post season....that sounds about right don't you think?

@Buddy, yeah that one guy made a post after his defeat, after I read it I was like "Cry me a River". I have heard people express their feeling towards the educational "Implode" at AHS. The City of Albemarle will not let that school be shutdown as some may want it too.
Click to expand...
Perfect! They are the ONES that count!!

10-4 on the removal of the Poole-aid in Stanly Co! However, I don't think it will help eligibility issues & coaches/teachers trying to leave AHS. That is a Central Office decision in assigning school-based administrators. This is where the real change needs to occur.

TW
 
The SMC calls 7-8-9 grades JV ball. I believe the 9th graders can go either way, based on talent and depth.
 
This is not the first year that Albemarle has had players ineligible for the first part of basketball far from it. Some teams expected to be really good in the late 1970's and ten years later experienced this and probably at other times since then. I think losing the top tier of academic students hurts all student because the bar gets lowered somewhat. May be wrong on that but I base it on real life and work situations.

As far as Albemarle being closed, I think anything is possible if the enrollment continues to drop although it saw nearly a 10% increase this year on the ADM. Albemarle, North, and South will all be in the mix directly and West Stanly indirectly. I am not so sure that redistricting is as much a fixer as I once thought. With 430 at SS and 470 at Albemarle, those are two very small schools. North at 580 is not large but not small. Albemarle has the best physical structure but the worst athletic facilities although a great stadium(!).

Some thought two new high schools making the four high schools the middle schools was the smart choice in the early 1990's. West contingent was so adamant against middle schools it did not go any further. Everyone has a middle school now.
 
Albemarle doesn't have the "Worst" athletic facilities lol not in the county anyway. They have a brand new athletic building behind the stadium, matter of fact, tore down the old basketball court leading to the cafeteria to build it. The Wrestling room is "Atrocious" there wasn't a year I didn't get ring-worm lol.
 
In Sparta,nc the key to having football success is to hire Frank Sessoms and give him a few years to turn the program around.
 
Sway the football facilities are top notch including the practice fields. One of the better stadiums in the state. After that things go down hill pretty quick.

The school does not have a baseball or softball field on campus. There are no tennis courts and limited practice space considering boys soccer and football play in the fall and the field by the front parking lot seems to be lacking. The gym is way too small, almost like an afterthought when it was built. The land to build on is limited as the Albemarle City Schools and later the Stanly County Schools made a terrible decision to not try and purchase the land that now houses the senior home and the large church in addition to other parcels near the school. The senior home would have been great parking and use the top level parking for a new gym turning the current one into an auxiliary PE/Fitness facility.

Not saying the other schools have better as they each have deficient facilities but they do have on site facilities. Really the whole system in Stanly County is screwed up.
 
Originally posted by SMCFAN:



Originally posted by gal durnit:


Originally posted by BK13T-$:
Yeah 7th,8th and 9th play JV ball. Robbinsville is a k-12. I meant we dont have a other middle schools feeding us. Some schools are k-12 and they also have East elementary and West ele feeding into them.
Click to expand...
Those are feeder schools and programs BK. You know Cracker Bowl League. Catch up here.
Click to expand...
Gal or other SMC bretheren over that direction, I have two questions...

1) Do y'all still have the rule in place that 8th graders have to play JVs and cannot stay down and play youth ball?

2) Do you guys play with a weight limit in youth league? I thought at one time you guys did not and just had the restriction on the size of the kids that could be in the backfield.
Click to expand...
SMCFAN,

8th and 9th graders play JV ball. There is a rule in place that gives 7th graders the choice between JV and youth league. Most to my knowledge play youth league which more or less is the middle school team I guess you could say with 6th and 7th graders.

I thought the youth league used to have a weight limit but I don't think there is one in place anymore as far as playing goes. There was an absolute monster that played lineman for one of the Swain youth teams. I don't know his weight exactly but he was dominant when he wanted to be.

This post was edited on 12/10 4:10 PM by gal durnit
 
a good Little League program helps....Have A B $ C squads which help prepare the kids as they age.....very fortunate in MA that at the middle school we've had the same coaches for years and I mean years that have produced winners....have helped prepare those kids for HS ball......and of course having a tradition of winning in football always helps
 
If you look at the SMC, football is it. Basketball, baseball and all other sports are just something you do to pass the time until football starts again. The communities eat, sleep and breath it for 12 months. Its a way of life that never gets old. It's not just a game here, it's so much more. When the lights come on any given Friday night in the mountains the world stops and football is all there is.
 
Good youth programs with quality youth coaches who are willing to attend clinics to improve their coaching skills and who also understand that fundamentals are the most important aspect of the game. I have seen many good onmes but far too many who think they are Nick Saban or get all their coaching ideas on Madden 2014. A good MS program is vital as well. Having all your FB players in a WL class the entire time they are in HS. This is a tremendous advantage (and may be the most important) because in small schools many of the same athletes play 3 sports and can not stay after school to participate in the strength, agility, and speed development program.
 
Originally posted by No.1RamsFan:
Good youth programs with quality youth coaches who are willing to attend clinics to improve their coaching skills and who also understand that fundamentals are the most important aspect of the game. I have seen many good onmes but far too many who think they are Nick Saban or get all their coaching ideas on Madden 2014. A good MS program is vital as well. Having all your FB players in a WL class the entire time they are in HS. This is a tremendous advantage (and may be the most important) because in small schools many of the same athletes play 3 sports and can not stay after school to participate in the strength, agility, and speed development program.
Click to expand...
Incredibly important, and one of those aspects at a small school that isn't always an issue at bigger places. Big schools do share athletes across multiple sports, but nothing to the extent we see at the 1A level. I just pulled up our roster and double checked and did some quick math and 87% of our varsity football players play multiple sports. Trying to get everybody in the weightroom at one time after school is an impossibility with all the different schedules to work around. So you try like crazy to get em all in PE and get creative in finding times to lift for the others. Makes for long hours for the staff, but it has to be done year 'round.
 
Originally posted by gal durnit:
Originally posted by SMCFAN:



Originally posted by gal durnit:


Originally posted by BK13T-$:
Yeah 7th,8th and 9th play JV ball. Robbinsville is a k-12. I meant we dont have a other middle schools feeding us. Some schools are k-12 and they also have East elementary and West ele feeding into them.
Click to expand...
Those are feeder schools and programs BK. You know Cracker Bowl League. Catch up here.
Click to expand...
Gal or other SMC bretheren over that direction, I have two questions...

1) Do y'all still have the rule in place that 8th graders have to play JVs and cannot stay down and play youth ball?

2) Do you guys play with a weight limit in youth league? I thought at one time you guys did not and just had the restriction on the size of the kids that could be in the backfield.
Click to expand...
SMCFAN,

8th and 9th graders play JV ball. There is a rule in place that gives 7th graders the choice between JV and youth league. Most to my knowledge play youth league which more or less is the middle school team I guess you could say with 6th and 7th graders.

I thought the youth league used to have a weight limit but I don't think there is one in place anymore as far as playing goes. There was an absolute monster that played lineman for one of the Swain youth teams. I don't know his weight exactly but he was dominant when he wanted to be.

This post was edited on 12/10 4:10 PM by gal durnit
Click to expand...
That is a much better scenario than what we are working with. I wish our youth league would adopt that set-up or we could get into the same youth league as you guys; but the travel probably means that will never happen.

Our smaller kids in the 6th and 7th grades have the same opportunities that yours do. However our big boys (the ones that are the most important in many ways) have less football opportunities here that they do over there...and that is very important age group to get them "into the fold" and running the system and learning how to use their size to good advantage.

Then we have the 8th graders and even the rare 9th grader that, because of their age, choose to stay down and play youth ball and only get one very short JV season as a freshman to learn the system and learn to play big boy football without a weight limit...makes it tough on the kid, on the JV program, and eventually on the varsity program.

This post was edited on 12/12 9:59 AM by SMCFAN

This post was edited on 12/12 10:04 AM by SMCFAN
 
It is simple, small towns have less distractions for the kids. If they have nothing to do but play football or sit at the house, they usually opt for football. The bigger schools just have so many more athletes to pick from.
 
Originally posted by Ramnasty:

It is simple, small towns have less distractions for the kids. If they have nothing to do but play football or sit at the house, they usually opt for football. The bigger schools just have so many more athletes to pick from.
Click to expand...
Kids opt for football instead of sitting at the house if football is an attractive option. Kids don't want to play for losers or if there is no tradition or culture to encourage them to do so. When I played, my hometown wasn't a football town and we had 27 on the roster. The culture changed and it is now a football town and they regularly have 40 or more.
 
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