There are 20-plus teams with a LOSING record in the NCHSAA playoffs. How does Walkertown NOT go after finishing the regular season 8-3. The NCHSAA should be embarrassed at the system they have in place
Walkertown not making playoffs is a travesty!!
- Thread starter nm2004
- Start date
Their AMPR was 66 in 2A..they had a horrible strength of schedule....1-10 East Rutherford was 3 spots higher in 2A...but I agree.
And West Columbus gets in with 1 and 9 record
114 2a teams, schedule strength 107 of those teams, simmons has
walkertown 68th of 2a teams so it isn't just adjusted sticking it to ya
walkertown 68th of 2a teams so it isn't just adjusted sticking it to ya
8-3 is a good season. But you lost to North Forsyth. They won 4 games this year. Win the games you should win and you’re in the playoffs.
Also you beat Lexington by 6 points. Lexington is terrible.
Also you beat Lexington by 6 points. Lexington is terrible.
Because they finished 3rd in a two guaranteed spot conference. Because they didn't get an auto bid, they were at the mercy of getting in based on the AMPR. Once all the auto bids were filled, the remaining spots get filled by 3rd place teams across the region based on who won the 4 games necessary to qualify, then breaking those teams down based on their AMPR. Apparently, there were enough of these teams to fill out the remaining spots that had a better AMPR. Strength of schedule does play a part in the ranking of a team. An 0-11 team that lost to all powerhouses would probably have a better ranking than an 11-0 team that defeated all cupcakes.
Looks like there was a tie for 3rd. Forbush must have won a draw because they get the distinct honor of getting whooped by Reidsville this coming Friday night.
Didn't even notice that 3 way tie. In those instances, a draw is held to see who gets third, and so on. They must not have received the third place spot in the draw, which meant they had to wait until all automatic seeds were filled, then third place finishers that had 4 wins, and then on to 4th places finishers, and then fifth. The spots got filled before the process got to them.
Basically, in a nutshell, conference records are more important than overall records.
Last edited:
In another drawing to break a 3-way tie, Bartlett Yancey got the nod in the Mid-State 2-A Conference. The Bucs, at 9-2 with a weak schedule, would have missed the playoffs if they had drawn the short straw.
Cummings, which beat Bartlett Yancey, would have gotten in with a 2-9 record had they won the drawing. Cummings had one of the toughest schedules in 2-A.
The Cavs had to play a tough schedule of bigger schools from Alamance County and also lost to Leesville Road, an undefeated school from Wake County that is a No. 2 seed in 4AA East. Not quite sure how or why that game ended up on Cummings schedule. Also noted that Cummings was one of only four teams to score at least 20 points against Leesville Road (56-21 loss).
Cummings, which beat Bartlett Yancey, would have gotten in with a 2-9 record had they won the drawing. Cummings had one of the toughest schedules in 2-A.
The Cavs had to play a tough schedule of bigger schools from Alamance County and also lost to Leesville Road, an undefeated school from Wake County that is a No. 2 seed in 4AA East. Not quite sure how or why that game ended up on Cummings schedule. Also noted that Cummings was one of only four teams to score at least 20 points against Leesville Road (56-21 loss).
Last edited:
Anytime a team wins 8 games in a season they deserve to be in the playoffs...it don't matter who they played it could be Lexington,Trinity or whoever
I don’t care how you slice it. There are a couple dozen teams in the NCHSAA playoffs with LOSING records. Several win less than four games. No way Walkertown should be out!!!
The problem with that is....basically you would have weak teams schedule even weaker opponents and get in the playoffs verses teams in a tough conference and playing better competition.
They beat one decent team non conference and three of the four those games were against 1A teams.
The schools wanted guaranteed spots for conference finish. They wanted emphasis placed on conference play. I disagree but their thought is you cannot help what conference you are in. I think only the conference champion should get a guaranteed spot and the remaining qualifiers should be based on the adjusted rankings. I could care less if you are second or third place in a weak conference and play a terrible non conference schedule!
Another issue is drawing straws to break a tie. Use the adjusted rankings. Last year a weird scene played out with a three way tie for fourth place in a powerhouse conference. A team that got lucky one night and had a mid 60’s ranking was drawing with two good teams in low 40’s ranking.
The schools wanted guaranteed spots for conference finish. They wanted emphasis placed on conference play. I disagree but their thought is you cannot help what conference you are in. I think only the conference champion should get a guaranteed spot and the remaining qualifiers should be based on the adjusted rankings. I could care less if you are second or third place in a weak conference and play a terrible non conference schedule!
Another issue is drawing straws to break a tie. Use the adjusted rankings. Last year a weird scene played out with a three way tie for fourth place in a powerhouse conference. A team that got lucky one night and had a mid 60’s ranking was drawing with two good teams in low 40’s ranking.
They are 1A. 48 of 76 schools make the playoffs. WC is one if two 1A schools in a split conference. They “won” the 1A portion of the class. There should be a requirement that they have to be in the top 48 to get that automatic qualifier.
That's true, but they won or got second in their conference, most likely a split 1A/2A conference. You don't have to win 4 games if you receive an automatic bid, and in most conferences, 1st and second is automatic.
The problem with that is split conferences themselves. Even though those conferences may have 6 or 7 teams, you only have to worry about the teams that are in your same class. So if you are 1A, and your split conference has 4 2A teams, and 2 1A teams, then all you have to worry about is the 1A part. So if you beat that other 1A team, then you have won the 1A portion of the conference, thus getting an automatic bid. That's how you can be 1-10 and still make the playoffs. Once again, conference placement supersedes overall records. Same with every other sport. Go 10-6 in the NFL while losing all of your division games and watch yourself miss the playoffs, while a 6-10 team that won all their division games and are division champs continues their season. College basketball...a 22-4 Ivy League team doesn't make the big tournament if a 13-14 team wins the conference. Not saying its fair, but conference placement has been more important forever. Can't gripe about it here without finding it to be a problem in all sports.
It is crazy that an 8-3 team is home and some 4-7 teams are in. Did they lose the draw to Forbush, if so probably done them a favor with Reidsville as the opponent.
Somewhat same scenario happened with a south eastern school, Heidi Trask, in 2017. Very weak schedule but an 8-3 record. A draw fir three way tie happened last year and it could have been much worse as it could have knocked two top 49 teams out of the playoffs replace with a high 60’s ranked team.
They lost the draw and were not in the top 64 teams of the Max Preps adjusted rankings.
1A qualifier Albemarle was 4-7. Their non conferences losses were to playoff qualifiers Mountain Island Charter (1A), Thomasville (2A), West Stanly (2A), and Union Pines (3A) plus non qualifier Montgomery Central (3A). We see 4-7 but they did not loaded up with east non conference wins. In their case should they be penalized for playing a tough schedule or in Walkertown’s case should they be bumped up fir playing very weak smaller classification schools?
Last edited:
Idc how week a teams SOS is a 8-3 record should never be left sitting at home....never. You can only play who is on the schedule and if you are winning those games that’s what matters. This is crazy
Mistake to draw straws to break the tie! Walkertown was rated much higher than Forbush and North Forsyth plus blew out Forbush. You would think the coaches would learn from the Union County scenario in 2018. If North Forsyth would have win the draw Forbush and Walkertown would have been out. If Walkertown wins the draw Forbush probably gets in. Go by Max Preps adjusted and Walkertown gets in plus most likely Forbush. Coaches and ADs, learn qualifying rules!
Last edited:
Why draw straws ? Really why not go to stats and see who has maybe the most TD’S or who’s defensive stats are better. Straws is stupid to say the least. Why not merit ?
In Walkertown’s scenario it was not the SOS but the conference opting to draw fir the conference finish in a three way tie. A poster complained about losing teams making the playoffs and I listed Albemarle as a comparison of a team with a losing record. Honestly, Walkertown’s non conference schedule is extremely weak!
Thst would be stupid, also! Not because it does provide a better optic but because it does not fit the playoff qualification formula. Use the system. Walkertown would have been in the playoffs and most likely Forbush.
The tie breaker process is on the NCHSAA website. In the event of a three way tie, here are the steps followed:
1. Of the three teams that are tied, did one team beat the other two teams.
2. If the three teams have matching 1-1 records against the other two teams, you then see how they did against the teams that finish above them and then below them until the tie is broken.
3. If they are still tied after 1 and 2, they draw for position with the drawing done in alphabetical order as the schools are listed in the NCHSAA directory.
Two things ultimately cost Walkertown a berth:
1. They did not beat North Forsyth and finished below them in the draw.
2. Because of the change that was made a couple of years ago, an at large team that finishes below another team in their conference cannot be selected until the higher finishing team is selected. With North Forsyth having a lower ranking, Walkertown was in trouble.
There is no perfect scenario. As someone mentioned in another post, there used to be only first and second place teams from each conference that would make the playoffs and if you had a three way tie for first with three teams that had a 10-1 record, one of those teams would be out of luck.
My biggest gripe with the seeding process is giving a first place team from a conference higher seeding because they won their league. If I were running the selections, I would propose that you determine your 64 teams, split them into small and large groups (2A/2AA) and regions (East/West). Once the regions were determined, then seed the region from 1 to 16 based upon the AMPR. For example, winning a conference championship gives a team a berth in the NCAA basketball tournament, but does not guarantee them a high seed. If the NCAA followed the seeding process used in the NCHSAA playoffs, you would have every conference champion seeded no lower than a 8 or 9 seed. How do you think people would respond if UNC won the ACC Tournament by beating a #1 Duke in the finals, but seeding Duke at the 10 seed in the East because they were not the automatic qualifier.
1. Of the three teams that are tied, did one team beat the other two teams.
2. If the three teams have matching 1-1 records against the other two teams, you then see how they did against the teams that finish above them and then below them until the tie is broken.
3. If they are still tied after 1 and 2, they draw for position with the drawing done in alphabetical order as the schools are listed in the NCHSAA directory.
Two things ultimately cost Walkertown a berth:
1. They did not beat North Forsyth and finished below them in the draw.
2. Because of the change that was made a couple of years ago, an at large team that finishes below another team in their conference cannot be selected until the higher finishing team is selected. With North Forsyth having a lower ranking, Walkertown was in trouble.
There is no perfect scenario. As someone mentioned in another post, there used to be only first and second place teams from each conference that would make the playoffs and if you had a three way tie for first with three teams that had a 10-1 record, one of those teams would be out of luck.
My biggest gripe with the seeding process is giving a first place team from a conference higher seeding because they won their league. If I were running the selections, I would propose that you determine your 64 teams, split them into small and large groups (2A/2AA) and regions (East/West). Once the regions were determined, then seed the region from 1 to 16 based upon the AMPR. For example, winning a conference championship gives a team a berth in the NCAA basketball tournament, but does not guarantee them a high seed. If the NCAA followed the seeding process used in the NCHSAA playoffs, you would have every conference champion seeded no lower than a 8 or 9 seed. How do you think people would respond if UNC won the ACC Tournament by beating a #1 Duke in the finals, but seeding Duke at the 10 seed in the East because they were not the automatic qualifier.
Walkertown is definitely better than some of the teams that got in. I saw they play against North Surry and they're a decent team.
But I also saw North Forsyth. How in the world Walkertown managed to lose to that team is a mystery. Beat them and they're in. Don't let North Surry drive the length of the field and beat them on a TD with 13 seconds left, and they're in.
They left their fate in the hands of others and it came back and bit them. Yes, they're better than Forbush, another team I saw this season. But they were also better than North Forsyth and somehow managed to lose to them.
I think the conference champions should get autobids and then you just fill the rest of the field with the Maxpreps ratings. But that's just me.
But I also saw North Forsyth. How in the world Walkertown managed to lose to that team is a mystery. Beat them and they're in. Don't let North Surry drive the length of the field and beat them on a TD with 13 seconds left, and they're in.
They left their fate in the hands of others and it came back and bit them. Yes, they're better than Forbush, another team I saw this season. But they were also better than North Forsyth and somehow managed to lose to them.
I think the conference champions should get autobids and then you just fill the rest of the field with the Maxpreps ratings. But that's just me.
Unless it is new this season, the NCHSAA allows conference to select their form of breaking a tie which can include using Max Preps adjusted rankings. This is what the admin recommends or did.
The second #2 listed by NDApp is the reason to go with the adjusted rankings.
The second #2 listed by NDApp is the reason to go with the adjusted rankings.
Forbush is going to get clown stomped, its basically the Trinity football of the foothills. Shocked they even won 7 games. Dunno how Walkertown lost to North Forsyth but it killed their chances...
Don’t they only have two non conference games? Also, second year playing varsity. Both of those items get them a mulligan.
It was very weak. I can’t disagree with it.
But Montgomery Central and Albemarle aren’t too much better. (But... still better)
I really hope those two teams don’t show up on the schedule again next season. J-M and Trinity SUCK.
But, who knows. I think a lot of teams agree to two years. It is what it is.
MC and Albermale aren't the best but they are scrappy. Both would put up 50 on Trinity and Jordan Mathews. I hope you guys schedule better next year too.
North Forsyth almost beat the conference champs....West Stokes. Lost 8-6.
They probably have a stronger case in why they didn’t get in! Certainly played a tougher schedule and seemed to be somewhat competitive! Go figure!
They probably have a stronger case in why they didn’t get in! Certainly played a tougher schedule and seemed to be somewhat competitive! Go figure!
Similar threads
