Vance is no more

704CougarsDad

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Nov 11, 2015
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Well looks like Zebulon B Vance high school will be renamed. And also some other schools may have the same faith. Times a changing my friends.
 

By the Fence

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Oct 14, 2017
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Saw where there is also a movement underway in Wayne County to rename Charles B Aycock High School (3A).

Aycock name has already been removed from a dorm at ECU.
 
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UNCGrad2014

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Nov 29, 2014
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Saw where there is also a movement underway in Wayne County to rename Charles B Aycock High School (3A).

Aycock name has already been removed from a dorm at ECU.
Was also removed from the auditorium on the campus of my alma mater, UNCG.
 
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btango

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Nov 5, 2003
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Been following you for years. Where are you originally from. You have a wealth of knowledge and experience on everything
Was living in downtown Charlotte 4th Ward in the early 90’s. Business partner was friends with two of his daughters at Chapel Hill and got to know them, too. Harvey was the first black student at Clemson. First class folks.
 

UNCGrad2014

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Nov 29, 2014
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It's amazing how people get offended by names and statues from 155 years ago. Talk about holding grudges. We had the marches in the 60s, the Civil Rights Act of 1964 as well. For an "elightened" culture, we don't sound so enlightened. Still fighting the Civil War 155 years later.
It’s amazing how you don’t get it. Celebrating treasonous losers that fought for the enslavement of people, only to be immortalized? Damn shame.
 

UNCGrad2014

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Nov 29, 2014
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It's amazing how people get offended by names and statues from 155 years ago. Talk about holding grudges. We had the marches in the 60s, the Civil Rights Act of 1964 as well. For an "elightened" culture, we don't sound so enlightened. Still fighting the Civil War 155 years later.
You don’t sound enlightened at all. You sound privileged.
 

UNCGrad2014

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Nov 29, 2014
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Ahhhhhh.....the famous buzz word, "privileged".
It’s a buzz word to you, it’s how you’re responding to me. You can’t relate, and that’s fine, but the sheer ignorance you show to Americans that lineage built this country, especially the south, and what those statues represent (the truth) show how privileged you are. Stay privileged.
 

UNCGrad2014

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Nov 29, 2014
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Man, don't hand that crap to me. You don't get it. I was born and raised in Richmond, Virginia, the home of the famous Robert E. Lee monument, along with the other confederate monuments on Monument Avenue. In the 70s I was telling folks, both black and white to please stop fighting the Civil War. This is all this is. That name of Vance didn't seem to bother anyone when they won a state football championship last year. But, now people want to protest and burn cities down because of cop violence. I don't buy the narrative. More whites have been killed by cops than blacks. Where's the protests over that? My view has been the same.
Ah! There’s the more whites have been killed by cops than blacks buzz retort. Deaths per capita. Check it out. Don’t care where you were born or what you did in the 70s. It’s 2020, and they’re coming down. Get over it.
 

UNCGrad2014

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Nov 29, 2014
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Man, don't hand that crap to me. You don't get it. I was born and raised in Richmond, Virginia, the home of the famous Robert E. Lee monument, along with the other confederate monuments on Monument Avenue. In the 70s I was telling folks, both black and white to please stop fighting the Civil War. This is all this is. That name of Vance didn't seem to bother anyone when they won a state football championship last year. But, now people want to protest and burn cities down because of cop violence. I don't buy the narrative. More whites have been killed by cops than blacks. Where's the protests over that? My view has been the same. Anyway, this isn't the place for this kind of discussion. I made my comment and will now move on.
And this may not be the place for these comments to you, but the same players on that Vance team that won the state championship feels the exact same way I do. You’ll cheer them on on Friday nights, but will insult their intellect for what they logically see the world to be. I’ve said my piece. Now I’m done.
 

704CougarsDad

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Nov 11, 2015
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Man, don't hand that crap to me. You don't get it. I was born and raised in Richmond, Virginia, the home of the famous Robert E. Lee monument, along with the other confederate monuments on Monument Avenue. In the 70s I was telling folks, both black and white to please stop fighting the Civil War. This is all this is. That name of Vance didn't seem to bother anyone when they won a state football championship last year. But, now people want to protest and burn cities down because of cop violence. I don't buy the narrative. More whites have been killed by cops than blacks. Where's the protests over that? My view has been the same. Anyway, this isn't the place for this kind of discussion. I made my comment and will now move on.
I know ur mr contrarian on here and majority of the time I agree with you when u always bring up stuff that people dont see, but with this one its probably best to say nothing. We in America yes we have the freedoms to say whatever and whenever we want but with this one it's best not to say anything at all especially if u cant identify with the people who is experiencing it. Yes Vance all these yrs some knew it was named after a Confederate general, yes kids still played with that name but dude they're jus kids they dont know themselves better yet why this school is named after. We as adults have said for years that the name has to b changed but until recently it came upon deaf ears. Man the kids jus want to play that's it and it's an issue they SHOULDN'T WORRY ABOUT. Its us as the parent changing that and as we see its finally getting done. So I'll give not jus you but people who dont understand stuff that other people are going thru...its best jus to b quiet sometimes and let changes change.
 

ForsythCo

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Sep 23, 2016
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It's amazing how people get offended by names and statues from 155 years ago. Talk about holding grudges. We had the marches in the 60s, the Civil Rights Act of 1964 as well. For an "elightened" culture, we don't sound so enlightened. Still fighting the Civil War 155 years later.
A lot of these schools, statues, and monuments were enacted as a response to the civil rights movement.

And this ain't about holding grudges. It's about righting wrongs. This crap is inexcusable and the government (state and federal) should be lucky that we're asking the bare minimum from them.
 

ForsythCo

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Sep 23, 2016
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Man, don't hand that crap to me. You don't get it. I was born and raised in Richmond, Virginia, the home of the famous Robert E. Lee monument, along with the other confederate monuments on Monument Avenue. In the 70s I was telling folks, both black and white to please stop fighting the Civil War. This is all this is. That name of Vance didn't seem to bother anyone when they won a state football championship last year. But, now people want to protest and burn cities down because of cop violence. I don't buy the narrative. More whites have been killed by cops than blacks. Where's the protests over that? My view has been the same. Anyway, this isn't the place for this kind of discussion. I made my comment and will now move on.
See that's the problem with people like you. Just because you don't hear something doesn't mean it's not happening. People have been complaining about Vance for years, but the request to change the name would fall on deaf ears.

It's amazing to me that you think it's just one event that's cause all this. This frustration has been building since the before America was even a country. When you don't right the wrongs of your forefathers you end up with situations like this.

The Union didn't go far enough. I would have burned the south to the ground and hung every treasonous general from Virginia to Texas.
 
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Blue and Gold22

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Aug 17, 2013
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Ahhhhhh.....the famous buzz word, "privileged".
" One day, may we all meet together in the light of understanding"- Malcolm X

It would be easy to just have fun and troll you but your ignorance here is frankly too far in the dark to enjoy it like I usually do. Combining " buzzword" and " privilege" in the same sentence speaks to the irony of all ironies.

The fact that you interpret white privilege as a buzzword is the absolute definition of the term.

Trust me Mr. Honda- plenty of people have had issues with monuments, statues and naming rights for decades. You may not have heard them but that speaks more about the message receiver than the message giver.

Protests, statue removal, kneeling during the anthem, HS football players refusing to play because of racist environments allowed in their schools........it makes you uncomfortable. I truly understand that as it makes me uncomfortable at times as well but here is the good news. True growth in this country has never occured without it. End of slavery, 19th Amendment, Civil Rights, Voting rights,LGBTQ rights ...........none of those occur without a great deal of uncomfort.

It is a great country because of it and it only gets better with more of it.
 

nepsy7

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Oct 3, 2009
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But, I'm assuming you support a Marxist movement, with folks who want to burn down cities. Ok.
FYI! The looters & protestors are not the same people. Kind of like, good cops vs bad cops. That’s the narrative people like yourself try and push, because it’s much easier for you to understand. You’re damn near 70 with no true black friends that can educate you outside of social media, so you come on here with the same argument that you used 35 years ago. Instead of educating yourself either in the classroom, or setting down with someone of color and having a conversation that makes you feel uncomfortable. On some of your post, you act as though 2 groups of people got in a bar fight, and they should shake hands and move on. The US was bought, built and brodered on Slavery. It’s a fact! We learn from this and get better. You don’t make comments suggesting you’re not a slave anymore so move on. Damn!
 

704CougarsDad

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Nov 11, 2015
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First of all I want to apologize to Mr Hughes and Ms King for this thread not knowing it would head in THIS direction. Being that this is a HS football site and being that most people on here are adults that deal with kids on a daily basis I only made it because 1. I am probably the main Vance poster 2. Because were one of the top programs in the state I figured it would b something to talk about...positively. Again I had lots of respect for Mr Honda in the past and the work hes done but it's amazing how quickly someone can flush a reputation down the drain with a cpl ignoramus post. You sir Mr Honda are canceled
 

Blue and Gold22

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Aug 17, 2013
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First of all I want to apologize to Mr Hughes and Ms King for this thread not knowing it would head in THIS direction. Being that this is a HS football site and being that most people on here are adults that deal with kids on a daily basis I only made it because 1. I am probably the main Vance poster 2. Because were one of the top programs in the state I figured it would b something to talk about...positively. Again I had lots of respect for Mr Honda in the past and the work hes done but it's amazing how quickly someone can flush a reputation down the drain with a cpl ignoramus post. You sir Mr Honda are canceled
There is no fencing off this subject from HS football. As Mr. Baxter from SC Varsity showed us yesterday it lives and breathes in it.
 

Kylar2018

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Jul 16, 2019
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No need to apologize bro. This is America. Well suppose to be anyway. Debates and protest are supposed to be welcome, isn't how the country was founded. I'm younger than most on here so I'm definitely encouraged to learn historical references from you guys. Ppl like honda don't understand it's not a black vs. white issue. Its a RIGHT vs. wrong issue
 

Babyhewey

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Oct 7, 2016
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I'm asking this on this thread because it hasn't been answered on the other thread I asked it on. And please this is a legit question because I don't know. Regarding the player/players at Hough. The interview I watched he was referring to social media posts and sounded like the kids he was talking about never singled out anyone person was just saying things in general. Now while I understand that being racist to anyone or about any race is terrible, what is he wanting to happen? Because I have been told over the years that the schools don't have the power to do anything if it is not on school property. So if it is not directed at a certain person and only on social media can the school do anything? And would sitting out his last year hurt his college chances? Now please im not by any means condoning the racist things these kids are saying im just asking a real world question, can anything actually be done like the players are wanting or are they for the lack of a better phrase, fighting a losing battle with this particular incident
 

Kylar2018

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Jul 16, 2019
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Honestly in this racist/prejudice climate I feel on the High school and college level if any black athlete do not feel safe at their current school. They should be allowed to transfer to another school without any penalties or consequences.
 

UNCGrad2014

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Nov 29, 2014
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I'm asking this on this thread because it hasn't been answered on the other thread I asked it on. And please this is a legit question because I don't know. Regarding the player/players at Hough. The interview I watched he was referring to social media posts and sounded like the kids he was talking about never singled out anyone person was just saying things in general. Now while I understand that being racist to anyone or about any race is terrible, what is he wanting to happen? Because I have been told over the years that the schools don't have the power to do anything if it is not on school property. So if it is not directed at a certain person and only on social media can the school do anything? And would sitting out his last year hurt his college chances? Now please im not by any means condoning the racist things these kids are saying im just asking a real world question, can anything actually be done like the players are wanting or are they for the lack of a better phrase, fighting a losing battle with this particular incident
Good question. Something can be done by administration if an action done by a student off campus could potentially interrupt learning or threaten the safety of staff and students.
 

UNCGrad2014

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Nov 29, 2014
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First of all I want to apologize to Mr Hughes and Ms King for this thread not knowing it would head in THIS direction. Being that this is a HS football site and being that most people on here are adults that deal with kids on a daily basis I only made it because 1. I am probably the main Vance poster 2. Because were one of the top programs in the state I figured it would b something to talk about...positively. Again I had lots of respect for Mr Honda in the past and the work hes done but it's amazing how quickly someone can flush a reputation down the drain with a cpl ignoramus post. You sir Mr Honda are canceled
No need to apologize, Cougs. We can’t continue to run away from these issues. They’re intertwined with sports, as they are in the workplace and social circles. If we have young ladies and men in high school taking a stand to call-out the injustices and wrongdoings of this country, we as adults should as well. No one was called out of their name and no one was threatened. This is healthy conversation for some, and exposing of others for who they are: fans of the game, but dismissive of those same players when they speak up and aren’t playing for their entertainment. Honda and SC Varsity represent the hypocrisy of this country. Whenever the status quo of the US (flawed from its inception) is threatened to change for the better, it’s viewed as an indictment on those that see nothing wrong with the systemic nastiness of this country, or fail to see it at all. Thank you for making this post. Progress is made when people are uncomfortable. We want our teams to push the envelope to evolve and become better, so we, as the adults, should model what we want out of kids playing a game in the grand scheme called life.
 
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Kylar2018

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I wasn't going to say anymore until this. This is a HUGE problem I'm having right now. First of all I get the taking down of statues and changing names. I was addressing human nature. It's amazing how these things are still hot spots after 155 years. Through the marches, Dr. King, The Civil Rights Act...we haven't learned one single thing in 155 years. We especially haven't learned anything since 1964. The same riots, the same burning of cities, we had the exact same photos in the 60s. Nothing has changed.

Until we open our eyes to racism on all sides, we'll continue to have race problems in this country. One can dismiss the mention of the word "privilege" as a buzzword all they want. But there is still a significant segment of the population who believes this is true. It's just that at this point, not many are pointing it out because of this current dismissive, censoring "cancel" culture.

Cougars Dad, I've had much respect for you as well. But, like you, it's amazing how a thread like this can flush one's reputation down the drain. Frankly, I've never been on here to develop a reputation and I'm sure you haven't either. But you're use of saying I've been canceled is a huge problem. Shut down dissent, stop opposing voices from being expressed. Shut down anything that doesn't agree with the narrative. Let's start bullying white folks. Don't think for one moment that's not going on. You talk about the anger that's being built up. One thing that's very dangerous right now is that there is another form of anger building up. It's mostly silent right now. But it won't be forever. It may take months, one year, five years, ten years or a whole generation, but it is building up.

Someone posted that the rioters and looters aren't the black lives matter supporters. That's like saying there aren't good cops and bad cops, that all cops are alike. Take a look around folks. That's exactly what's being done and said. All cops are being linked together. Why do you think there are calls for defunding police?

Someone said it's not about race but about right and wrong. That's being pretty naive. The fact the movement and the organization is called Black Lives Matter makes it about race. The fact that some are shouting "black power" makes it about race. The current "cancel"culture is about nothing but race.

This is from the Black Lives Matters website. "We are unapologetically Black in our positioning. In affirming that Black Lives Matter, we need not qualify our position. To love and desire freedom and justice for ourselves is a prerequisite for wanting the same for others". In other words using the word "prerequisite" indicates no consideration for any other race, white, Indian, Asian, Jew or Arab can happen until black lives get what they perceive they deserve.

"Now, let's change the wording a little bit. We are unapologetically White in our positioning. In affirming that White Lives Matter, we need not qualify our position. To love and desire freedom and justice for ourselves is a prerequisite for wanting the same for others."

I don't agree or adhere to either statement. All I did was change two words. That's all, just two words. I substituted the word "white" for "black". Here's my point. I don't agree with either viewpoint. Both of them are blatantly racist.

My views here are obviously the minority view. Just so you know, I do have black friends. We've talked and I've heard them. I just don't agree with everything that's going on. That's all. But the problem in our country today, is if you don't agree with the current narrative 100% then you aren't worthy of an opinion.

Myles Munroe, was a back pastor from the Bahamas. He pastored a church in the Bahamas and was a consultant to many businesses owned by people of color. In his book "The Burden of Freedom" he addressed how the Israelites, though they had physically freed from Egypt, were still slaves in their minds. He also stated that without mental transformation, the actions we take to "change may only produce a new place where we continue to do our old things". Finally he said "It is the mind that must be renewed before we can walk out of oppression's chains". Finally, he said "It's easier to exist in slavery that to live in freedom". He was speaking of the Israelites, but it could really apply to anyone.

You can tear down all the statues you want. You can change all the school names you want. Change packaging, kneel, fly the Black Lives Matter flag, do any symbolic thing you want, but that's all it is...symbolic. Until one walks out of slavery in their minds, it'll be in vain. Trust me. I know. I've been enslaved in my mind many times. Our minds, both black and white, need to be renewed before lasting, successful change can occur. Until that happens, everything else is fruitless.

Now, Mr. Hughes and Ms. King I do apologize to you. I probably got this whole political thing going with my response, then the length of this post. I wanted to answer some comments in one post, rather than small comments in many posts. So, I'm done.

Cougars Dad, you're right. Sometimes it's good to say nothing...for now. Emotions are too high right now...on both sides. All I hope for now but don't think it'll happen any time soon, is the end of the hypocrisy...all around.

To the delight of a few, I probably won't be on here anymore. I've never really felt like part of "the group" here. It's appeared, and this thread has magnified it, if you don't agree with most of the group here, then you really don't belong. So, I accept that and am moving on.

Will there be sarcastic responses to this post? Probably. There always are.

You just don't get it. Just leave it that
 

UNCGrad2014

Well-Known Member
Nov 29, 2014
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I wasn't going to say anymore until this. This is a HUGE problem I'm having right now. First of all I get the taking down of statues and changing names. I was addressing human nature. It's amazing how these things are still hot spots after 155 years. Through the marches, Dr. King, The Civil Rights Act...we haven't learned one single thing in 155 years. We especially haven't learned anything since 1964. The same riots, the same burning of cities, we had the exact same photos in the 60s. Nothing has changed.

Until we open our eyes to racism on all sides, we'll continue to have race problems in this country. One can dismiss the mention of the word "privilege" as a buzzword all they want. But there is still a significant segment of the population who believes this is true. It's just that at this point, not many are pointing it out because of this current dismissive, censoring "cancel" culture.

Cougars Dad, I've had much respect for you as well. But, like you, it's amazing how a thread like this can flush one's reputation down the drain. Frankly, I've never been on here to develop a reputation and I'm sure you haven't either. But you're use of saying I've been canceled is a huge problem. Shut down dissent, stop opposing voices from being expressed. Shut down anything that doesn't agree with the narrative. Let's start bullying white folks. Don't think for one moment that's not going on. You talk about the anger that's being built up. One thing that's very dangerous right now is that there is another form of anger building up. It's mostly silent right now. But it won't be forever. It may take months, one year, five years, ten years or a whole generation, but it is building up.

Someone posted that the rioters and looters aren't the black lives matter supporters. That's like saying there aren't good cops and bad cops, that all cops are alike. Take a look around folks. That's exactly what's being done and said. All cops are being linked together. Why do you think there are calls for defunding police?

Someone said it's not about race but about right and wrong. That's being pretty naive. The fact the movement and the organization is called Black Lives Matter makes it about race. The fact that some are shouting "black power" makes it about race. The current "cancel"culture is about nothing but race.

This is from the Black Lives Matters website. "We are unapologetically Black in our positioning. In affirming that Black Lives Matter, we need not qualify our position. To love and desire freedom and justice for ourselves is a prerequisite for wanting the same for others". In other words using the word "prerequisite" indicates no consideration for any other race, white, Indian, Asian, Jew or Arab can happen until black lives get what they perceive they deserve.

"Now, let's change the wording a little bit. We are unapologetically White in our positioning. In affirming that White Lives Matter, we need not qualify our position. To love and desire freedom and justice for ourselves is a prerequisite for wanting the same for others."

I don't agree or adhere to either statement. All I did was change two words. That's all, just two words. I substituted the word "white" for "black". Here's my point. I don't agree with either viewpoint. Both of them are blatantly racist.

My views here are obviously the minority view. Just so you know, I do have black friends. We've talked and I've heard them. I just don't agree with everything that's going on. That's all. But the problem in our country today, is if you don't agree with the current narrative 100% then you aren't worthy of an opinion.

Myles Munroe, was a back pastor from the Bahamas. He pastored a church in the Bahamas and was a consultant to many businesses owned by people of color. In his book "The Burden of Freedom" he addressed how the Israelites, though they had physically freed from Egypt, were still slaves in their minds. He also stated that without mental transformation, the actions we take to "change may only produce a new place where we continue to do our old things". Finally he said "It is the mind that must be renewed before we can walk out of oppression's chains". Finally, he said "It's easier to exist in slavery that to live in freedom". He was speaking of the Israelites, but it could really apply to anyone.

You can tear down all the statues you want. You can change all the school names you want. Change packaging, kneel, fly the Black Lives Matter flag, do any symbolic thing you want, but that's all it is...symbolic. Until one walks out of slavery in their minds, it'll be in vain. Trust me. I know. I've been enslaved in my mind many times. Our minds, both black and white, need to be renewed before lasting, successful change can occur. Until that happens, everything else is fruitless.

Now, Mr. Hughes and Ms. King I do apologize to you. I probably got this whole political thing going with my response, then the length of this post. I wanted to answer some comments in one post, rather than small comments in many posts. So, I'm done.

Cougars Dad, you're right. Sometimes it's good to say nothing...for now. Emotions are too high right now...on both sides. All I hope for now but don't think it'll happen any time soon, is the end of the hypocrisy...all around.

To the delight of a few, I probably won't be on here anymore. I've never really felt like part of "the group" here. It's appeared, and this thread has magnified it, if you don't agree with most of the group here, then you really don't belong. So, I accept that and am moving on.

Will there be sarcastic responses to this post? Probably. There always are.
Like Kylar just said, you don’t get it. The fact that you believe responses to you as sarcastic speaks more to that. Stick to sports.

And you’re not the victim. With what all you’ve said, you’re definitely not the victim. You’re a victim of your captive mindset, but you, sir, are not a victim.

You’re not being bullied, you’re being held accountable for your views that are drenched in privilege and non-progressive efforts. Thank God you aren’t a Coach or teacher right now.
 

UNCGrad2014

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Nov 29, 2014
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I'm glad I'm not as well. So.....if black lives matter...how about the majority of kids who grow up in single family households, where the father is absent. This is highest in the black community. If black lives matter, then let's stop putting the majority of abortion clinics in black communities, where there are a disproportionate share of black babies aborted. Do black lives matter? Then address these issues.

Raise the standards in school. Don't lower them. Raise them. Expect more from the kids. Have more accountability. Hold them back if they fail. Stop making excuses for some kids.

Please don't get me started on administrators.

I have a stepson who currently teaches in the public school system. Not all but I know some of what's going on.

Instead of tackling the more difficult challenges, people like you would rather do symbolic things than tackle the serious issues.

If you're making excuses for kids in the school system instead of being a part of raising the standards, then you are part of the problem.
You still don’t get it, and I do this work every day. I’m an educator and I’ve taught at one of the toughest schools in North Carolina. If you knew me, which you don’t, you’d know that I’m the last to make excuses for students and I’m hard on the ones that I do teach. Ask Quavaris Crouch how tough I was on him when he was in my class.

You continue to live in that false sense of security where statues are just statues to you, while “we people” (you’d never make it today saying “you people”.... so much to learn, but you’re incapable) do the work to bring down representations of systemic racism and enslavement, and continue to push forward for policy change. You can continue to post if you’d like, but you’re digging your hole deeper and deeper.
 
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