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Shrine Bowl Discussion

I hope NC loses. If its gonna be the way it is to pick a team then I think its a joke. If you wanna put the best players on the field then that's another thing. Shrine Bowl is a Joke!
 
Originally posted by owen98:
I hope NC loses. If its gonna be the way it is to pick a team then I think its a joke. If you wanna put the best players on the field then that's another thing. Shrine Bowl is a Joke!
Use to be they picked the best players in the state now that has changed.I agree it is a joke but the kids in the hospital still win.
In 1962 Boyd Allen from Canton and Cliff Brookshire from Enka were the North Carolina coaches,They took one player from Enka ,Two from Brevard ,two from Glen Alpine and two from Canton.When coach Allen was asked by the Charlotte paper why he had picked all those mountain boys he answer " because I intend on winning"South Carolina had won the last three years ,final score 23-13 North Carolina.
 
Only one player east of I-95. THERE ARE PLAYERS IN EASTERN NORTH CAROLINA!!! No reason why Ge'Dari Liverman is not playing. Check the stats
 
BigBird what ate you talking about?!? Off the top I can think of at least six players selected that are from east of I-95.
 
I'd suggest more emphasis on picking the specialist . i.e real punters and kickers

in general, the coaches lack the expertise ,selection acumen , or time to make the qb the most important player on the field i.e they generally have no passing game,jalen was the exception last year, leading to the defensive front seven totally controlling games
 
gardner should definitely have made the team. asst coaches choosing their own players who should NOT be on the team is a major problem for nc and cost this nc team the game imo. i was there and saw it happen.

This post was edited on 12/20 10:27 PM by artvandelay
 
I was there SC played to WIN NC didn't. What I mean by that NC coaches switched players every series. While SC kept their best players on the field. Another reason for the lost is SC Defensive front was just that much more dominant. They had NC O-Line on roller skates the whole game. NC could have had Adrian Peterson back there and it still wouldn't have made a difference. Don't get me wrong the NC team had loads of talent but The SC team just whipped the hell out of us in the trenches plus we had plenty of turn overs. The NC team defense did a great job, only giving up 14 points. The offense just couldn't get anything going. Most of the people on here complaining is made because someone from their town or school didn't make it. You can't please everyone someone will always be left out, that's just the way it is. Nearly everyone on the NC Team had either FBS or FCS offers or both.

This post was edited on 12/21 1:16 AM by Stanimallector
 
Artvandelay the NC team was stacked with great runningbacks. Who's place should Gardner have taking ? Gardner is a great runningback but so where the others. Like I said earlier The NC team O-line got man handled all night. We could barely get out of the back field. NC Qb's was running for their life. We could have had Barry sanders,and Adrian Peterson back there it wouldn't have made a difference.
 
How many O linemen of My Pleasant were on NC team. Anyone who played them can tell you that they should have been on the team and trench's problem could have been resolved. The fact is Gardner was a better all around player than Chambers who made the team. Gardner played both O and D and I saw both thses kids in person. But its not solely on Gardner. The way in which our team is chosen has bias written all over it. The Mountains had one player on the team and It was a kicker. He is good and deserved to be on the team but if his coach wasn't on staff he would have been passed over too.
 
You give us trhe names of all the offensive linemen you would have chosen to be on your NC SB team.
 
i was at the game. there were some pretty good high school players on that team. but this should not be for pretty good players. it should be for the best and whan the asst coaches get to take 1 or 2 kids off their own teams automatically you get political picks .not to name names but how about the nc kicking game? gardner would have been better at wr or db than the replacement picks for sure

This post was edited on 12/21 11:45 AM by artvandelay

This post was edited on 12/21 12:56 PM by artvandelay
 
I agree art. Also Gardner had 5 kick returns for TDs which is about half his touches in the kicking since no one would kick to him.

This post was edited on 12/21 1:16 PM by owen98
 
RAMBBQ To be rotated every series he did very good had a few tackles and a big hit That was replayed 3 times on espn3. He also did good on special teams,made a key block on the fake punt to get the first down. The NC Coaches rotated all the players every series which probably worked against us.

This post was edited on 12/21 7:01 PM by Stanimallector
 
Originally posted by owen98:
How many O linemen of My Pleasant were on NC team. Anyone who played them can tell you that they should have been on the team and trench's problem could have been resolved. The fact is Gardner was a better all around player than Chambers who made the team. Gardner played both O and D and I saw both thses kids in person. But its not solely on Gardner. The way in which our team is chosen has bias written all over it. The Mountains had one player on the team and It was a kicker. He is good and deserved to be on the team but if his coach wasn't on staff he would have been passed over too.
Mount Pleasant HC (Mike Johns) brought three players to the Charlotte combine but no linemen. Not sure about the linemen but the coach had said he had a lot of good underclassmen. May be they were junior heavy there.

I highly doubt the linemen at Mount would have resolved the d line issue faced Saturday and if they would have faced NC's d line I think it would have been the same issue. There is a reason Albert Huggins was offered by Alabama and was a main focus for them. Michael Barnett's final two were Florida State and Georgia. As was written by another poster, this is not a game for good high school players, you have to be great and a physical specimen to compete.
 
The specialist position needs to be revisited. The idea has been to take the best combo kicker / punter but this is a field position game and often is very close where a field goal can be a difference maker. I think they need to select the absolute best punter and kicker possible and I would use leg strength and consistency for my main criteria. Kicker needs to be able to get it as deep as possible on kick offs and be consistent from at least thirty yard line in and especially on PATs. He also has to get to the ball quick and get immediate lift on placement kicks.
 
Wouldn't it be a good idea if both states had to draw names at random of SR players AND COACHES who are willing to participate from a hat by position,, and mandate equal pt. That would take politics (and those ridiculous meaningless combines) out of the equation altogether. After all, "its all about the kids," right?
 
Originally posted by btango:
The specialist position needs to be revisited. The idea has been to take the best combo kicker / punter but this is a field position game and often is very close where a field goal can be a difference maker. I think they need to select the absolute best punter and kicker possible and I would use leg strength and consistency for my main criteria. Kicker needs to be able to get it as deep as possible on kick offs and be consistent from at least thirty yard line in and especially on PATs. He also has to get to the ball quick and get immediate lift on placement kicks.
Seriously, what are you talking about? The kicker did not miss any kicks. He never had a chance to kick a field goal, because. they were all blocked by a defender that was on the ball the second it got placed. He has the leg to kickoff to the back of the endzone, and I have heard that he put several through the uprights on kickoffs during the season. It appeared in the Shrine Bowl that he was directed to kick high to a spot, which he did. The returns were near or behind the 25. He pinned them at the 11 once with a punt. He punted from the goal line once and SC got the ball around the 40 on the other side. He was 1 for 1 passing for 35 yards on a fake punt. What else would you have a kicker do? As for the running backs, they did a great job under the circumstances. The QB's could may have been lacking, but who could tell. The rush was coming like a swarm. NC had some huge offensive linemen, but they had much difficulty sustaining blocks for more than a second. As for the return guys for NC, they appeared to be very good. I checked their combine numbers and they were very fast. The fact is, they rarely had the blocking to have a chance to return a punt. I agree that there were some members of the team that were suspect, but I saw nothing to question the return guys or the kicker. Did you actually watch the game?

This post was edited on 12/21 10:37 PM by BigSkyCountry
 
Originally posted by artvandelay:
i was at the game. there were some pretty good high school players on that team. but this should not be for pretty good players. it should be for the best and whan the asst coaches get to take 1 or 2 kids off their own teams automatically you get political picks .not to name names but how about the nc kicking game? gardner would have been better at wr or db than the replacement picks for sure

This post was edited on 12/21 11:45 AM by artvandelay

This post was edited on 12/21 12:56 PM by artvandelay
If you were at the game, then by all means go ahead and name names. What the heck would you like to say about the kicking game. Read my previous post so I do not have to restate it here. You cannot possibly be talking about the kicker, so what are you referring to? I just checked the roster and compared it to the assistant coaching staff. Which player from one of these coaches teams do you feel like cost us the game? The OL had their feet in concrete, and I do not know who else in NC would have been a better selection at that position. Offer up players who got left out at OL, and I will jump on your band wagon. As for the running back from a team with an assistant coach, the kid is legit. He is a great running back and opened the game with some great runs with little blocking. If you bothered to go to the game, you should have watched some of it.
 
BigskyCountry I agree with everything you said. Everyone out there was legit. SC Defensive front were just better than NC offensive front. That was the only difference in the game, Take back that Blocked field goal that was ran back for a TD and its a ball game. NC QBS where running for their life every single play so of course they were going to look bad. I doubt very seriously if any Offensive lineman in the state of NC could have stopped SC D-line. My son played Linebacker for the NC Team and he said it was unreal how long, big ,athletic and fast SC D-Line were. SC won the game in the treaches and that was the difference.

This post was edited on 12/22 12:22 AM by Stanimallector
 
Amen Rams1, That block and return for 6 was a big play. Besides that it was a toe to toe even heavy wt. fight
 
BigSkyCountry I was not being specific toward the specialist for this year's team but in general what I have seen the last several years to some degree.

I actually thought the player was a good choice for a combo specialist with some athletic ability. I watched some film of the player and saw him kick deep into the end zone and punt well. During the week he was not consistent and did not show as much leg as I saw on the film. The FG was a complete line breakdown. The PAT had issues with the line once again but the ball appeared to have a very low trajectory. He got a few nice rolls on some punts but had a couple that were low line drives. Did a good job with the fakes and getting rid of the ball with pressure.

My comments are based on the fact that some staffs have wanted to utilize a selected player instead of a specialist which brought the rule that it must be a specialist. Just as in lack of strong snappers and a holder, kicker and punter are two different positions. Also, if a specialist goes down the other should be able to handle a backup role and they can work together during practice. Have seen great kickers get passed over because they could not or did not punt well or the opposite. Every selection is not a Matt Wogan.
 
slow getting the fg off and the pat was kicked low. it would have hit the linemen had it not been blocked.
 
Originally posted by artvandelay:
i'm not naming names. one of the rules of the board is to not criticize players by name
You may not have named the kid, but your criticism is obvious. So you are going to blame the only kid from Western North Carolina to make the team for the loss. You could not possibly be talking about the kid that missed his block on both the field goal and the extra point. I guess the kicker called the fake punt run and the onside kick that were unsuccessful. Look, I just watched the game on youtube and replayed many plays. SC had a couple of players that made big plays. The catch the kid made after a tip, flat on his back was incredible. The kid that blocked two kicks was was a play maker, for sure. SC made big plays, and NC did not, or did not capitalize on big defensive plays. So, blame the kicker because his coach was also part of the team. That coach, by the way was responsible for selecting and coaching the NC Defensive Line that shut down the SC offense all day long. As for selecting kids based on team successes, NC had a great LB from a school that has not won a game in two years. The kid is a great player, has good numbers, and had a great Shrine Bowl. He deserved to be there, though his high school career was not filled with success on the score board. I am sure the selection process is complicated, and some well deserving kids get left out. I do not know the answer to that. The running back from Concord had some good runs, before he got hurt Saturday. Was he there simply because his coach was the OC. No, the kid is a great running back, and he deserved to be there. We could go on and on, but the bottom line is that SC just capitalized on big plays and scored when they had the chance. NC didn't.
 
The specialist did not lose the game. Way too many missed opportunities and too many breakdowns.

No one cares if the kicker is from Avery County or the Outer Banks. Ridiculous.
 
Why would it not be personal to him? The fact that there are some on here who make remarks about the coaches and the kids. To me that makes it personal. I thought his reply was pretty well stated. I would like to see everyone who has all the answers (after the game) be placed in a situation of having to pick the players and coach the game. Having done it before I will tell you that it is a difficult job. No matter what you do you will make some people unhappy. No matter what you do in either process you will be bad mouthed. If you don't believe what I say is true, try it one time.
 
so you don't think the coaches have ever made a pick for reasons other than the best player available? just hard to believe that west of charlotte that there were 2 players deserving to be on that team. i just can't buy that
 
It is not personal to me, other than the fact that I will stand up for any kid from the West. I just do not understand why you chose to blame one kid, a kicker. I watched the game with no bias toward any kid. I also looked at the combine numbers from across the state. My main beef with some of the comments made is that they are made with very little specific information to back them up. That is why I chose to research the numbers and to go back and watch the game again to be sure that I knew what I was talking about. Part of my motivation for doing so is something I think we can all agree upon, and that is NC improving their chances of actually winning the game. Sadly, after what research I have done, I conclude that I do not know the answer. It would appear that some of the top players do not go to the combines. Like the combines or not, they are a big part of the process, probably the one that counts the most. Do some players get picked because of who they played for, sure. Do some coaches get picked because of who they know, probably so. I have read some of the criteria they use for picking the coaches, and I cannot disagree with the rationale. I do know that there are players out there who deserve to be on the team, yet those players do not play in a big city league. They do not get the mass media attention, because they are from Small Town High in a rural county in the middle of nowhere where there is very little or no media coverage. As stated earlier, I was very impressed with the LB from a school that was 0-22 over the past two seasons, a school that I don't remember ever hearing much about. I suppose the combine was this kid's chance to show his worth. I was under impressed with some other players from big-name schools and a couple of kids who supposedly have committed to D1 colleges. Did NC have the absolute best players at every single position, I doubt it. But I also doubt that I or any poster on this board has the facts necessary to determine exactly why that happened, and what could be done to make it more perfect. I saw a lot of football games live this year, and I saw some very good players. I do not know why some of them were not chosen. I saw a few that were dominant in their respective leagues. Would they have been as good against SC's best, again I do not know. I definitely would liked to have seen how the Gardner kid from Owen would have fared, but at what position. The backs this year played good in my opinion. Gardner could easily have been a slot receiver, I suppose. I know he could carry the mail with the best of them once he got going. I apologize if my comments seemed personal, I just felt like the kid being singled out deserved someone to offer an unbiased defense of his performance. I simply think anyone who watched the tape objectively would have to conclude that the foot to the ball was not the issue. No. 3 from SC was the issue. He came through the line like he was shot out of a cannon. Whatever comes out of this, I definitely will be watching on Saturdays in the next couple of years to see what that kid does. He was a man amongst men. Finally, I have seen that a far west coach or two is on the short list for future coaching considerations. I would love to see them coach this game and see some smash mouth mountain football brought to our neighbors to the south.
Merry Christmass All!
 
I don't know the facts but I do know that the kicker got hurt vs Swain in the playoffs to the point thathe has barely made back for basketball so my guess is he was out of practice kicking. I do know everytime we played Avery he was a kicking machine. Heck on kickoffs he would kick field goals. The best I have seen at the high school level as a combo kicker doing both punting and Field goals along with kickoffs. That would be my guess. He is very good. I thought he done a great job of selling the fake punt in the 1st quarter.
 
i was talking whole kicking game from the blocked kicks to 1 return where the nc player was determined to get rid of the ball and finally gives the ball to another player who gets tackled on his own 5. i think that lead to sc's second td. twice a return man came all the way across the field and took the kick from a teammate who was under it. i saw the player who had the kick taken from him react in the sidelines and he was not happy about it. imo and others on here the kicking game cost nc the game. it wasn't just the kicker though he may have been a great kicker but lets say he had a bad day.
 
to the point thathe has barely made back for basketball so my guess is he was out of practice kicking.

If he was practicing basketball then his injury was practically healed. Unless you call him and ask him how much kicking he has done since his FB season was over you don't actually know how much he has kicked. He could possibly kicked on his own every day. The fact is he kicked all week at practice so I doubt that any period of inactivivity was meaningless. If he had been kicking since the beginning of the summer a couple of weeks would have no effect on his ability to kick.
 
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