Shelby and Crest football relevance vs Richmond and Independence
- Thread starter '98 State Champion
- Start date
That's pretty special and that's what creates long term success - the current generation is terrified to let down the past generations. Teams like Shelby, Reidsville, Swain County, Maiden and so on - the small town teams - have long traditions and expect to win year after year.
Richmond County is a different beast altogether. To be as consistent for as long at the 4A level is remarkable.
Few towns/communities have the long string of families like the places above. The Charlotte teams go on a run for a few years then fade. Some of the Triad teams do the same. I feel it is due to families moving in and out of the area, county policies, etc. I admit this is a brief discussion on just part of the reasons for the long term traditions vs the hot runs of a few years...BUT
Shelby or any top 2A teams just can't compete week in and week out at 4A.
Tradition? Yes. 2A Dynasty? Yes. Relevant in 4A? No.
Richmond County is a different beast altogether. To be as consistent for as long at the 4A level is remarkable.
Few towns/communities have the long string of families like the places above. The Charlotte teams go on a run for a few years then fade. Some of the Triad teams do the same. I feel it is due to families moving in and out of the area, county policies, etc. I admit this is a brief discussion on just part of the reasons for the long term traditions vs the hot runs of a few years...BUT
Shelby or any top 2A teams just can't compete week in and week out at 4A.
Tradition? Yes. 2A Dynasty? Yes. Relevant in 4A? No.
Millbrook defeats Richmond then promptly loses the next game in only round 3.
Scotland defeats Richmond again then promptly loses in Round 3 of the LOWER CLASSIFICATION 4A.
Hough destroys Independence then promptly loses the next game in only Round 3.
Meanwhile Shelby and Crest play at home this Friday to go back to Title Games as we did last year.
South Point and Crest, Shelby's two close losses this year, play each other to represent the West in the 3A classification, 2 LEVELS UP FROM SHELBY IN 2A.
Is this starting to make too much sense guys?
Scotland defeats Richmond again then promptly loses in Round 3 of the LOWER CLASSIFICATION 4A.
Hough destroys Independence then promptly loses the next game in only Round 3.
Meanwhile Shelby and Crest play at home this Friday to go back to Title Games as we did last year.
South Point and Crest, Shelby's two close losses this year, play each other to represent the West in the 3A classification, 2 LEVELS UP FROM SHELBY IN 2A.
Is this starting to make too much sense guys?
since Richmond Scotland and the other teams you mention are not worthy of shelby and the other team you talk about then clear a couple dates next season and we will come up there and play. we are always trying to find teams willing to play us. have your people call our people. btw we wont be holding our breath waiting on your call.
hokiemtc
Here's the bottom line, Chump...10 of your little 2A titles does not add up to equal a single 4A title. I can't even imagine what kind of carnage Mallard Creek would create if they played your schedule. Half of the teams you play every year would quit football altogether if they looked across the field and saw Mallard Creek standing there. If you switched places with them, I doubt very seriously that Shelby even goes .500 this season. Heck, you lost twice WITHOUT playing any big boys. If you can't even run the table on your level, then you would obviously be way out of your league sitting at the big table with us.
So here are some guidelines for you to follow in the future if you want to actually be relevant in some way...
Rule #1) Play somebody.
Rule #2) Beat somebody.
Until Shelby does either one of these on the 4A level, then you simply do not exist as a noteworthy football program in the state of North Carolina. The bottom line is that there are about 50 programs in the state that could beat your winning percentage if they played your schedules, so there's just nothing at all about Shelby's record that's all that impressive, considering who you beat to get those wins.
Btango ..whatever you said.
Hokiemtc- We don't know whether to let you keep blabbering away in your completely idiotic ranting and slobbering, or dress you down in a public debate that would have you, like btango, totally disarmed yet threatening to bite us to death. Where btango understands the reasonable logic of fair play that dictates classifications in all sports, we have decided you really don't. You are that ignorant. Btango chooses to ignore the common sense requirement of classifications as HIS EGO pushes him in the same direction as you. For him, it is all about impressing others on this and other websites with his historical knowledge and opinions regardless of how flawed or biased. It is a popularity and acceptance contest for btango, therefore he pushes the 4A big school agendas so he shows up in that bigger fan and media pond. And he just loves to drop names and his itinerary, like anyone cares. What's funny is btango still refuses to identify himself and on what authority he speaks.
The reason we keep posts from the past is that many of you have proven to be slow learners. It is like having a Shelby High Football textbook. You have to keep going back for lessons and we tire of writing the same irrefutable historical facts over and over on each post. The info is on the website, but we can't expect you to actually check the facts first now can we. And we do not start these threads/responses unless provoked. This one came from someone terming Richmond County's football program as the "gold standard upon which all NC high school programs are measured". Don't want to hear us? Don't make claims that don't stand up to scrutiny.
Now back to hokiemtc and his lesson on classification. You do understand that some schools have more students than others, correct. And reasonable logic says that a bigger student population will generally provide more athletes into that school's athletic programs. And from that larger group of athletes, a larger number of actually very talented individuals than a school with a smaller group to pick from. Team depth occurs also as a larger school will have even more average athletes to rotate in.
Each state has one or more sanctioning organizations for public schools. Each sanctioning body divides its member schools up into anywhere from two to eight size classifications based on the number of students enrolled at a school (so that schools are assured to compete against other schools of comparable size) and then each classification is further divided into conferences. NC has four classifications; 1A, 2A, 3A , and 4A. A school's size classification can change if its enrollment rises or declines over the years. In the past at the smallest schools in NC, particularly in rural communities, variations on the game using six, eight, or nine players per side instead of the traditional eleven were encountered.
In NC for the football playoffs only, each classification is subdivided (1-A, 1-AA, 2-A, 2-AA, 3-A, 3-AA, 4-A, 4-AA). Then the following steps are followed:
1) All classifications will field a full complement of 64 teams, 32 in each sub-division.
2) If ties exist at any level the tie(s) will be broken by a draw.
Once the 64 teams are determined they will be divided into groups of 32 (large and small groups of 32) based on their ADM (total student population) for the present school year. The next step is to divide each group of 32 into the 16 eastern and western most teams. This is not done by conferences but on actual geography.
So you see hokiemtc, no state, including NC, expect smaller schools to compete with larger schools. DO YOU UNDERSTAND THAT NOW or are you the only one in the world that doesn't get it? But all are treated equal as "high schools" IN THEIR RESPECTIVE DIVISIONS. The championship trophies look the same. The title games are all played at NC university stadiums and all are televised the same. The programs and records are all presented the same. No officials ever claim that the 4AA title is any more significant than the 1A title is. The media treats them different because the media understandably reports back to the bigger cities where the bigger schools generally come from. But this is not a popularity contest. The Shelby High Golden Lions don't care about popularity. We care about remaining the most successful, sustained, winning program in all NC high school football. That we earned that position is a historical and statistical fact, not opinion. Gotta be 4A to be "noteworthy" was your word? To NC fans of bigger schools maybe. Texas fans in 7A would laugh at you and your 4A rants. They would say come play them and their 5000 to 6000 student schools.
If Cleveland County consolidated into one high school like you did, it would produce a school with 4500 students that would crush Richmond County and all other current NC high schools. For now, NC has chosen to top out at around 2300 for the biggest. Richmond County just happens to be in that largest group. Rumor has it RC will be classified small 4A soon. Then maybe you can beat Scotland .oh, we forgot.
Here's the bottom line, Chump...10 of your little 2A titles does not add up to equal a single 4A title. I can't even imagine what kind of carnage Mallard Creek would create if they played your schedule. Half of the teams you play every year would quit football altogether if they looked across the field and saw Mallard Creek standing there. If you switched places with them, I doubt very seriously that Shelby even goes .500 this season. Heck, you lost twice WITHOUT playing any big boys. If you can't even run the table on your level, then you would obviously be way out of your league sitting at the big table with us.
So here are some guidelines for you to follow in the future if you want to actually be relevant in some way...
Rule #1) Play somebody.
Rule #2) Beat somebody.
Until Shelby does either one of these on the 4A level, then you simply do not exist as a noteworthy football program in the state of North Carolina. The bottom line is that there are about 50 programs in the state that could beat your winning percentage if they played your schedules, so there's just nothing at all about Shelby's record that's all that impressive, considering who you beat to get those wins.
Btango ..whatever you said.
Hokiemtc- We don't know whether to let you keep blabbering away in your completely idiotic ranting and slobbering, or dress you down in a public debate that would have you, like btango, totally disarmed yet threatening to bite us to death. Where btango understands the reasonable logic of fair play that dictates classifications in all sports, we have decided you really don't. You are that ignorant. Btango chooses to ignore the common sense requirement of classifications as HIS EGO pushes him in the same direction as you. For him, it is all about impressing others on this and other websites with his historical knowledge and opinions regardless of how flawed or biased. It is a popularity and acceptance contest for btango, therefore he pushes the 4A big school agendas so he shows up in that bigger fan and media pond. And he just loves to drop names and his itinerary, like anyone cares. What's funny is btango still refuses to identify himself and on what authority he speaks.
The reason we keep posts from the past is that many of you have proven to be slow learners. It is like having a Shelby High Football textbook. You have to keep going back for lessons and we tire of writing the same irrefutable historical facts over and over on each post. The info is on the website, but we can't expect you to actually check the facts first now can we. And we do not start these threads/responses unless provoked. This one came from someone terming Richmond County's football program as the "gold standard upon which all NC high school programs are measured". Don't want to hear us? Don't make claims that don't stand up to scrutiny.
Now back to hokiemtc and his lesson on classification. You do understand that some schools have more students than others, correct. And reasonable logic says that a bigger student population will generally provide more athletes into that school's athletic programs. And from that larger group of athletes, a larger number of actually very talented individuals than a school with a smaller group to pick from. Team depth occurs also as a larger school will have even more average athletes to rotate in.
Each state has one or more sanctioning organizations for public schools. Each sanctioning body divides its member schools up into anywhere from two to eight size classifications based on the number of students enrolled at a school (so that schools are assured to compete against other schools of comparable size) and then each classification is further divided into conferences. NC has four classifications; 1A, 2A, 3A , and 4A. A school's size classification can change if its enrollment rises or declines over the years. In the past at the smallest schools in NC, particularly in rural communities, variations on the game using six, eight, or nine players per side instead of the traditional eleven were encountered.
In NC for the football playoffs only, each classification is subdivided (1-A, 1-AA, 2-A, 2-AA, 3-A, 3-AA, 4-A, 4-AA). Then the following steps are followed:
1) All classifications will field a full complement of 64 teams, 32 in each sub-division.
2) If ties exist at any level the tie(s) will be broken by a draw.
Once the 64 teams are determined they will be divided into groups of 32 (large and small groups of 32) based on their ADM (total student population) for the present school year. The next step is to divide each group of 32 into the 16 eastern and western most teams. This is not done by conferences but on actual geography.
So you see hokiemtc, no state, including NC, expect smaller schools to compete with larger schools. DO YOU UNDERSTAND THAT NOW or are you the only one in the world that doesn't get it? But all are treated equal as "high schools" IN THEIR RESPECTIVE DIVISIONS. The championship trophies look the same. The title games are all played at NC university stadiums and all are televised the same. The programs and records are all presented the same. No officials ever claim that the 4AA title is any more significant than the 1A title is. The media treats them different because the media understandably reports back to the bigger cities where the bigger schools generally come from. But this is not a popularity contest. The Shelby High Golden Lions don't care about popularity. We care about remaining the most successful, sustained, winning program in all NC high school football. That we earned that position is a historical and statistical fact, not opinion. Gotta be 4A to be "noteworthy" was your word? To NC fans of bigger schools maybe. Texas fans in 7A would laugh at you and your 4A rants. They would say come play them and their 5000 to 6000 student schools.
If Cleveland County consolidated into one high school like you did, it would produce a school with 4500 students that would crush Richmond County and all other current NC high schools. For now, NC has chosen to top out at around 2300 for the biggest. Richmond County just happens to be in that largest group. Rumor has it RC will be classified small 4A soon. Then maybe you can beat Scotland .oh, we forgot.
I'm a Reidsville supporter and I'm not saying this just because Shelby just beat Reidsville 2 years in a row. But going to college fairly close to Richmond County I went and watched them play to see what they were all about. But I don't believe Richmond County could beat Shelby this year I just don't see how they could score enough points on that defense.
9...ampion,
Sir I personally like your essay. You stand tall, firm and speak your mind. You remind me of myself when I get up to 450 degrees Fahrenheit boiling. As I read your beautiful essay, I notice hot bubbles with a meaning that rises up and over the rim of the pot with a meaning that states your team has overcame adversity and allowed not the mouth or their attitude to speak but yet allow their game to be the promotion.
BRAVO! BRAVO!
[/B]
Sir I personally like your essay. You stand tall, firm and speak your mind. You remind me of myself when I get up to 450 degrees Fahrenheit boiling. As I read your beautiful essay, I notice hot bubbles with a meaning that rises up and over the rim of the pot with a meaning that states your team has overcame adversity and allowed not the mouth or their attitude to speak but yet allow their game to be the promotion.
BRAVO! BRAVO!
[/B]
Texas does not have 7A. Had five classifications for years and a 6 man classification. Went to 6A this year renaming 6 man 1A. Dutch Fork (SC) played one of the largest couple of schools in Texas, Allen, which has 5,900 students. Allen is two time defending large school champion and beat DF by five in a shootout. Once a school gets up to around 2,000 I think that the enrollment numbers become less of an issue.
I am not out to impress anyone because I could care less. I will choose what game I want to go to on Friday and be there. On Saturday I will be at the SC state title games whether people care or not. I offer my opinions and information in posts which is what message boards are for. Not name dropping. If I spoke with a person or went somewhere and it is relevant to a thread I may write about it. I cannot remember the last time I started a thread much less going to all four classifications.
I have written in this thread and the one in January that there is a reason for classifications. If Shelby were in a 4A classification that would not be fair to them due to the enrollment size but you're the one that blows about how great they are pointing to the one half scrimmage with Byrnes as your ammo, or the Gaffney games when the Indians lost nearly as many as they won, or the Crest rivalry games. That's great but based on your statements I would think Shelby would be chasing the very best teams in the Carolinas each year and they are not.
I am not out to impress anyone because I could care less. I will choose what game I want to go to on Friday and be there. On Saturday I will be at the SC state title games whether people care or not. I offer my opinions and information in posts which is what message boards are for. Not name dropping. If I spoke with a person or went somewhere and it is relevant to a thread I may write about it. I cannot remember the last time I started a thread much less going to all four classifications.
I have written in this thread and the one in January that there is a reason for classifications. If Shelby were in a 4A classification that would not be fair to them due to the enrollment size but you're the one that blows about how great they are pointing to the one half scrimmage with Byrnes as your ammo, or the Gaffney games when the Indians lost nearly as many as they won, or the Crest rivalry games. That's great but based on your statements I would think Shelby would be chasing the very best teams in the Carolinas each year and they are not.
Richmond...42.31 points/game against 4A competition
Crest...40.14 points/game against 2A and 3A competition
South Point...35.50 points/game against 2A and 3A competition
So South Point has enough offensive firepower to score 44 points on Shelby's out-of-this-world defense, but Richmond doesn't? In fact, Shelby's amazingly stout defense gave up more than 20 points on FIVE different occasions this year...and they weren't high powered 4A teams they were playing.
Something doesn't add up here. I'm seeing Richmond having to play their 3rd string to stay out of the 70's against Shelby's weak defense.
The 4AA game has always been shown live on News Channel 14 and I think will be this season also. The smaller classifications are normally shown on the OnDemand channels which not everyone can get. Those smaller classes are now shown live but for years they were only available after the game was completed.
North Carolina has 17 schools over 2,300 students this year per the football ADMs. Richmond is 19th. Expect they will stay in big 4A for another several years but one day they may drop below the cutoff.
Combine the schools in Cleveland County and have 4,500 students? If Shelby is the measuring stick of high school football in NC why would they need to consolidate with any other school(s)? Why not combine Scotland and Richmond but they would have only 4,000 students? Would that mean that Vance and Mallard Creek would combine since they are five miles apart and would have about 4,200 students? Indy and Butler at five miles apart? Weddington, Cuthbertson, Monroe, and Sun Valley? Latin, Christian, Providence Day, Country Day, and Catholic together as they are in an eight mile total radius and that would be about 4,500 high schoolers.
...and if Meck Co consolidated all of their high schools into one high school (like someone did...you said me, but Butler isn't consolidated), it would produce a school with 40,000 students, which would once again crush your little consolidated school.
Richmond's population is declining by the year slowly. I would expect we drop to 4a, but I don't see that for another 4-5 years.
Richmond's ADM was 2,267 this year, and the ADM has actually risen in 4 of the last 6 years, so you guys are still one of the biggest high schools in the state. You probably won't see the effects of population decline for a while, and there's a long way to drop before you start flirting with the 4A cutoff. I think I'll be surprised if it happens in the next 5 years.
I didn't realize we were that high on the ADM numbers. I have looked at population growth rates and Richmond used to be at -2% over a 10 year period...not sure of the latest projections as they can change. I see no reason for a projection change indicating growth, but with those numbers it won't matter. It does look to be quite some time before that is close.
Shelby and Crest have nice little programs and nice history.
They cannot, would not sniff the 4a powers. Not on their best day. And that's okay because they don't have to.
They cannot, would not sniff the 4a powers. Not on their best day. And that's okay because they don't have to.
Does Mecklenburg County have 50% of their schools playing in a State Championship game for the second year in a row? Let's see, ah....Meck. Co. has 31 public schools plus Charlotte Catholic so 2 for 32 is 6%. (1 for 31 in actual public schools for 3%) Pound for pound best football in the state is CLEVELAND COUNTY!!
Let's dig a little deeper....of the 16 teams in the 4AA Western Bracket, 10 teams are from Mecklenburg County. So Meck Co has a 10/16 chance of representing the West in the 4AA championship game. It would be PATHETIC if Meck County did not represent the west.
You lose.
Back to Richmond County, how many state championships has Richmond County been to in the last 16 years? ONE!
How many state championships have Shelby and Crest been to in the last 16 years? 11 (and we are adding two more this year)
You lose again. What round was Richmond and Indy put out in this year?
Now cry us a river about 4A 4A 4A 4A 4A....because that's all you've got.
Who played in and won the 94 and 96 4A championship games?
This post was edited on 12/6 1:07 AM by '98 State Champion
There are 19 public high schools in Meck County that are NCHSAA members and each plays football. Some of those 31 that are listed on the link you provided are multiple "theme based" high schools that fall under one "name" high school such as Olympic and Garinger while a few such as Northwest School of the Arts does not offer sports.
Charlotte Catholic is the lone non public in the county that plays in the NCHSAA.
The Big 4 privates are Christian, Latin, Country Day, and Providence Day.
The other privates Davidson Day, Southlake Christian, Victory Christian, Hickory Grove.
A few home school teams are also based out of Charlotte.
Charlotte schools potentially can compete for state football titles in two NCHSAA sub-classes and three private school classes. The three private school classes were won by Charlotte schools and in the two largest the title game opponent was a Meck school. In 4A and 4AA the title game participants representing the west will be from Meck. Every title game that can have a Meck County participant has/had one.
Charlotte Catholic is the lone non public in the county that plays in the NCHSAA.
The Big 4 privates are Christian, Latin, Country Day, and Providence Day.
The other privates Davidson Day, Southlake Christian, Victory Christian, Hickory Grove.
A few home school teams are also based out of Charlotte.
Charlotte schools potentially can compete for state football titles in two NCHSAA sub-classes and three private school classes. The three private school classes were won by Charlotte schools and in the two largest the title game opponent was a Meck school. In 4A and 4AA the title game participants representing the west will be from Meck. Every title game that can have a Meck County participant has/had one.
Haha, once again your bogus claims of superiority have ZERO legs, so you have to put ridiculous disclaimers, qualifiers and filters on them in order for them to pass scrutiny. An intelligent person would realize that if that they had to spend that much time looking for the angles in which their statements could plausibly be true, then maybe the claims had issues to begin with. And then there is what you do with them.
All 19 of Meck Co's high schools are 4A, and there are two 4A title game slots for all 19 of them to battle for, so no, 50% of our schools did make a title game. They never have and they never will.
However, that does not make your county better at football. There are about 10 Charlotte teams this year that would curb stomp a mud hole in your little irrelevant 2A program this season, and a couple of those teams would probably win by 5 or 6 TDs. Enjoy your 50% title game participation, and by all means, please continue to think that 1) it's the best on the state (it's not...Craven Co has 67% of their teams playing for titles...in HIGHER classifications), and 2) that it means anything at all in the big picture.
That's the thing about the big picture...there are no little teams in it. And judging by the lengths that you have to go in order to make it appear that you are relevant in any way, then you very obviously are a little team. A big picture program doesn't start threads talking about how good they are. They don't need to, because everyone else does it for them. An intelligent person would realize that.
I don't think I've ever seen such an inferiority complex in my entire life. I honestly feel a little bit bad for Shelby fans...to be that desperate for someone to show a little respect for their total world dominance, but then to show up here in the real world and see how little of it there really is.
It must be a little bit humbling to see how one is really perceived by the world after building themselves up in their minds like they have. Or more likely, this just validates Chump's opinion that the rest of North Carolina doesn't know anything at all about football (or we would see the painfully obvious for ourselves), and that this sucks for him to have to waste his time helping us out. The 2A ranks not only have the best teams with the best accomplishments...but the smartest fans, too, apparently.
Hokiemtc and btango- We hardly know where to start but since you two provide us with such entertainment, we will go back to the title of this thread.
Shelby and Crest football relevance vs Richmond and Independence
With last night's results freshly in mind, an "intelligent person" as you call it would have no reason not to acknowledge current events and recent history as they relate to topic above. We will address that first and then we will talk about the deeper historical significance of what is happening now on the Shelby continues to stand while Rich Co, Independence continue to slide thread.
Shelby and Crest are both going back to the (fifth round) NCHSAA Championship Title Games in 2014.
Richmond and Independence both were eliminated in the second round this year by teams that lost in the 3rd round in 2014.
Shelby won their NCHSAA Championship Title Game in 2013 and are defending Champs. Crest was the Runner-Up in their NCHSAA Championship Title Game in 2013.
Richmond has only appeared in and won one State Title (2008) in the last 16 years. That was six years ago.
Independence won their first seven State Titles from 2000-2006. They lost the Title Game in 2007. They have not appeared in a Title Game since 2007, seven years ago.
Shelby has made it to the Western Finals 4 of the last 5 years. The two losses were to the eventual State Champs and both losses came in the last minute of each of those games. Could have easily been in four of the last five Title Games.
Crest made it to the Title Games in 2010 and 2011. That IS four of the last five Title Games.
Richmond and Independence? What have either done of significance in the high school playoffs since 2008? Please tell us and then explain their relevance to NCHSAA playoff results since 2008.
rel-e-vance; noun. relation to the matter at hand.
And then we have a final request.
You both must be Democrats, because when all else fails in representing your positions, you then resort to personal attacks on us in an effort to bully or shame us into silence. We ask again, in fullness of disclosure, who are you two and on what authority do you speak? We have always explained our credentials and identity without having to give our full real names and never have chosen to hide behind our Rivals posting name as you two do. In your next futile response, please give us some idea of your background and personal history to bring a measure of credence to this ongoing debate. Otherwise, you only expose yourselves as frauds on this board with only an agenda to extend these discussions as you attempt to change the subject or prop up losing arguments with personal attacks or nonsensical matchups to make yourselves feel better. Who really has a complex here?
Shelby and Crest football relevance vs Richmond and Independence
With last night's results freshly in mind, an "intelligent person" as you call it would have no reason not to acknowledge current events and recent history as they relate to topic above. We will address that first and then we will talk about the deeper historical significance of what is happening now on the Shelby continues to stand while Rich Co, Independence continue to slide thread.
Shelby and Crest are both going back to the (fifth round) NCHSAA Championship Title Games in 2014.
Richmond and Independence both were eliminated in the second round this year by teams that lost in the 3rd round in 2014.
Shelby won their NCHSAA Championship Title Game in 2013 and are defending Champs. Crest was the Runner-Up in their NCHSAA Championship Title Game in 2013.
Richmond has only appeared in and won one State Title (2008) in the last 16 years. That was six years ago.
Independence won their first seven State Titles from 2000-2006. They lost the Title Game in 2007. They have not appeared in a Title Game since 2007, seven years ago.
Shelby has made it to the Western Finals 4 of the last 5 years. The two losses were to the eventual State Champs and both losses came in the last minute of each of those games. Could have easily been in four of the last five Title Games.
Crest made it to the Title Games in 2010 and 2011. That IS four of the last five Title Games.
Richmond and Independence? What have either done of significance in the high school playoffs since 2008? Please tell us and then explain their relevance to NCHSAA playoff results since 2008.
rel-e-vance; noun. relation to the matter at hand.
And then we have a final request.
You both must be Democrats, because when all else fails in representing your positions, you then resort to personal attacks on us in an effort to bully or shame us into silence. We ask again, in fullness of disclosure, who are you two and on what authority do you speak? We have always explained our credentials and identity without having to give our full real names and never have chosen to hide behind our Rivals posting name as you two do. In your next futile response, please give us some idea of your background and personal history to bring a measure of credence to this ongoing debate. Otherwise, you only expose yourselves as frauds on this board with only an agenda to extend these discussions as you attempt to change the subject or prop up losing arguments with personal attacks or nonsensical matchups to make yourselves feel better. Who really has a complex here?
'98 State Champion posted on 12/6/2014...
Who really has a complex here?
98,
Let me guess...that would be you? Oh yea, that's it. This is a 4a board. Is life boring these days?
Who really has a complex here?
98,
Let me guess...that would be you? Oh yea, that's it. This is a 4a board. Is life boring these days?
Still living off something happened in the 90's!?!?!?
Come on dude.... What are you trying to prove and why do you need to?
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