Question about RPI calculation

[19yardline]

I purposely did not ask this question on one of the other threads about RPI, so PLEASE confine any answer/discussion to my actual question, and not how it might favor or "screw" anybody's team:

This is a hyper hypothetical, but assume teams A and B play five teams with the same (and bad) RPI, and 5 others with a strong RPI but clearly team A's is a bit better. Both are undefeated thru 5 games; who would have the higher RPI going in to Week 6?:

Team A:
Game 1- W opponent RPI 30
Game 2- W " " 32
Game 3- W " " 35
Game 4- W " " 27
Game 5- W " " 22
Game 6- Opponent RPI 1
Game 7 " " 2
Game 8 " " 3
Game 9 " " 4
Game 10 " " 5
Team B:
Game 1- W opponent RPI 6
Game 2- W " " 7
Game 3- W " " 8
Game 4- W " " 9
Game 5- W " " 10
Game 6- Opponent RPI 30
Game 7 " " 32
Game 8 " " 35
Game 9 " " 27
Game 10 " " 22

And to further my hype-hypothetical, assume Team A won all of their first 5 gamesagainst weak/mediocre competition by less than 7 points, and Team B won all theirs against strong teams by over 20 points.
I'm going to go ahead and state that my limited knowledge of the RPI process as I've read it on ncpreps is that Team A while clearly the weaker team will have the better RPI going in to Week 6, but if the remainder of the schedule plays out as expected just from looking at on-field results thru the first 5 games and their almost opposite level of competition in their two half-season schedules, the clearly stronger Team B will rise in the RPI and Team A will fall to where by week 10 it all reasonably sorts itself out. Of course, if Team A were to somehow catch fire and both win out, then clearly Team A would have the higher RPI. But again, who would have the higher RPI after week 5?
Again, full disclaimer:
-for entertainment & information purposes only
- your mileage may vary

 

[GrizzlyDevil]

Your opponents RPI ranking doesn't matter when figuring your RPI...your RPI is:

It's (0.3×WP)+(0.4xOWP)+(0.3xOOWP)
WP=your winning percentage
OWP=your opponents winning percentage excluding their game with you
OOWP=the winning percentage of all your opponents other opponents

The RPI you get will change weekly. Also...the 5th best RPI in week 5 will be different than the 5th best in week 6. Let's say 0.55465 in week 5 but it's 0.55120 in week 6.

for the sake of your hypothetical...let's say they are even and have played the "same strength opponents "... team A and team B would have the same RPI theoretically and would be tied.

the second part...close games or blow outs do not matter...itsa hard did you win and/or lose.

RPI gets a lot of hate but the seeding process has been right more than it has been wrong.

I purposely did not ask this question on one of the other threads about RPI, so PLEASE confine any answer/discussion to my actual question, and not how it might favor or "screw" anybody's team:

This is a hyper hypothetical, but assume teams A and B play five teams with the same (and bad) RPI, and 5 others with a strong RPI but clearly team A's is a bit better. Both are undefeated thru 5 games; who would have the higher RPI going in to Week 6?:

Team A:
Game 1- W opponent RPI 30
Game 2- W " " 32
Game 3- W " " 35
Game 4- W " " 27
Game 5- W " " 22
Game 6- Opponent RPI 1
Game 7 " " 2
Game 8 " " 3
Game 9 " " 4
Game 10 " " 5
Team B:
Game 1- W opponent RPI 6
Game 2- W " " 7
Game 3- W " " 8
Game 4- W " " 9
Game 5- W " " 10
Game 6- Opponent RPI 30
Game 7 " " 32
Game 8 " " 35
Game 9 " " 27
Game 10 " " 22

And to further my hype-hypothetical, assume Team A won all of their first 5 gamesagainst weak/mediocre competition by less than 7 points, and Team B won all theirs against strong teams by over 20 points.
I'm going to go ahead and state that my limited knowledge of the RPI process as I've read it on ncpreps is that Team A while clearly the weaker team will have the better RPI going in to Week 6, but if the remainder of the schedule plays out as expected just from looking at on-field results thru the first 5 games and their almost opposite level of competition in their two half-season schedules, the clearly stronger Team B will rise in the RPI and Team A will fall to where by week 10 it all reasonably sorts itself out. Of course, if Team A were to somehow catch fire and both win out, then clearly Team A would have the higher RPI. But again, who would have the higher RPI after week 5?
Again, full disclaimer:
-for entertainment & information purposes only
- your mileage may vary

 

[daagoob]

Your opponents RPI ranking doesn't matter when figuring your RPI...your RPI is:

It's (0.3×WP)+(0.4xOWP)+(0.3xOOWP)
WP=your winning percentage
OWP=your opponents winning percentage excluding their game with you
OOWP=the winning percentage of all your opponents other opponents

The RPI you get will change weekly. Also...the 5th best RPI in week 5 will be different than the 5th best in week 6. Let's say 0.55465 in week 5 but it's 0.55120 in week 6.

for the sake of your hypothetical...let's say they are even and have played the "same strength opponents "... team A and team B would have the same RPI theoretically and would be tied.

the second part...close games or blow outs do not matter...itsa hard did you win and/or lose.

RPI gets a lot of hate but the seeding process has been right more than it has been wrong.

You guys just exceeded my intelligence level. We need a more simple breakdown for posters like myself 😂.

 

[thekidd12]

You guys just exceeded my intelligence level. We need a more simple breakdown for posters like myself 😂.

Play good teams and win, even by one point, and as long as good teams are playing other good teams you get to stay at home field longer…
How’s that???

 

[kingbluedevil]

Play good teams and win, even by one point, and as long as good teams are playing other good teams you get to stay at home field longer…
How’s that???

That covers it thanks

 

[GrizzlyDevil]

Play good teams and win, even by one point, and as long as good teams are playing other good teams you get to stay at home field longer…
How’s that???

Yes, be successful against other successful teams

 

[thekidd12]

Yes, be successful against other successful teams

Thank you for simplifying it even more. Sometimes I take long way around 🤷‍♂️

 

[19yardline]

Your opponents RPI ranking doesn't matter when figuring your RPI...your RPI is:

It's (0.3×WP)+(0.4xOWP)+(0.3xOOWP)
WP=your winning percentage
OWP=your opponents winning percentage excluding their game with you
OOWP=the winning percentage of all your opponents other opponents

The RPI you get will change weekly. Also...the 5th best RPI in week 5 will be different than the 5th best in week 6. Let's say 0.55465 in week 5 but it's 0.55120 in week 6.

for the sake of your hypothetical...let's say they are even and have played the "same strength opponents "... team A and team B would have the same RPI theoretically and would be tied.

the second part...close games or blow outs do not matter...itsa hard did you win and/or lose.

RPI gets a lot of hate but the seeding process has been right more than it has been wrong.

thanks Grizz; I'm sure it had been posted elsewhere before and I missed it, but your explanation is easy to follow. My example which incorporated strength of future opponents into a team's current rating was based on something i thought I had read elsewhere; if I did maybe it was related to another unoficial ranking system like a Simmons but not to RPI.

 

[daagoob]

Play good teams and win, even by one point, and as long as good teams are playing other good teams you get to stay at home field longer…
How’s that???

Perfect, thanks Kidd

 

[PlayTom]

Everybody's life is precious in this place. Clinton is a bigger threat than some pointless RPI discussion, in my opinion.

 

[GrizzlyDevil]

Everybody's life is precious in this place. Clinton is a bigger threat than some pointless RPI discussion, in my opinion.

The whole point for this thread was to have a sincere conversation about RPI and how it works without having to discuss Clinton or hear Wiz's mouth.

Thanks for nothing Wiz Jr

 

[TheBuckMaster]

Everybody's life is precious in this place. Clinton is a bigger threat than some pointless RPI discussion, in my opinion.

This thread is about trying to help simplify and understand the RPI system, which is important for seeding and to see where their teams stand rn. Go on to another thread if you're not gunna add anything productive to it...

 

[19yardline]

Everybody's life is precious in this place. Clinton is a bigger threat than some pointless RPI discussion, in my opinion.

Please go back and read my original post for this thread. My question has been answered to my satisfaction and apparently that of several others, so feel free to start another thread if you want to veer off-topic.

 

[REWhitley]

The answer to your question is this: the really really good team in a very weak larger conference. Then the really good team has no choice but to play its weaker conference teams and therefore can do almost nothing to improve its RPI.

 

[thekidd12]

The answer to your question is this: the really really good team in a very weak larger conference. Then the really good team has no choice but to play its weaker conference teams and therefore can do almost nothing to improve its RPI.

This is a hypothetical situation right? 😂

 

[kingbluedevil]

Totally, in this hypothetical situation start making travel plans 4th round

 

[blkntkl]

The system is flawed in several areas:

1. It takes into no account the size of schools that are playing. A 4A school can schedule 1A schools who will beat all the 1A/2A opponents they will play and be rewarded the same as if they had beaten 4A teams with great records. The same can be said in reverse. A solid 1A/2A program could lose to a middle of the road 4A program by a tight margin, but it would count against them the same as losing to a middle of the road 1A/2A team.

2. Based on the current formula, 70% of the RPI is entirely out of the control of the team it affects the most. The only part of the formula a team has any control over is the W/L record and it only attributes to 30% of RPI.

3. Teams are not the same throughout the year. If I schedule a powerhouse team with 2 power five WR commits and beat them, it looks good. But they both get injured and the team loses the rest of their games, then my RPI suffers even though I beat a really good team.

NC needs to go to a district format. Break teams up into 4 team districts within their classification. Play district games the last three weeks. Tie breaker is margin with a +/- cap of 13 per week.

Example:

1st district Wk
Team A beats Team B 20-0
Team C beats Team D 7-0
Results - A: 1-0 (+13) B: 0-1 (-13) C: 1-0 (+7) D: 0-1 (-7)

2nd District Wk
Team A beats Team C 18-3
Team B beats Team D 9-0
Results after wk 2 - A: 2-0 (+26) B: 1-1 (-4) C: 1-1 (-6) D: 0-2 (-16)

Final District Wk
Team D beats Team A 3-0
Team B beats Team C 14-10
Final Results - A: 2-1 (+23) B: 2-1 (E) C: 1-2 (-10) D: 1-2 (-13)

Team A goes to the top half of the bracket, Team B goes to the bottom half

 

[BK13T-$]

Finally someone else gets it!!!

Same with 1a. Some 1a play weak home school or charter schools that mostly play other home/charter schools if a team plays them they get rewarded for wo/owp/oowp even though them teams were weaker than water.

It goes by record only and that can be very deceiving.

My team will have home field through out of we win out and I still don't care for the rpi system. I do like short drives and playing at home though

 

[BK13T-$]

The answer to your question is this: the really really good team in a very weak larger conference. Then the really good team has no choice but to play its weaker conference teams and therefore can do almost nothing to improve its RPI.

You can play a tough non conference.
Or you can schedule
North Surry #234 MaxPreps rankings
Surry Central #338
Ash County #185
East Surry #166

Of course ES is usually good.

 

[19yardline]

With a few exceptions, the current rpi system is in use for all two-dozen or so team sports in NC for determining state playoff qualifiers. I honestly don't know: do people have issues with it throughout the season for baseball, volleyball, soccer, etc. , or do they wait until the process plays out at season-end to see what if any glaring deficiencies might be system-derived?
Just my opinion, but if you agree that conference champions deserve the 1 seeds ahead of all others regardless of r.p.i. (which I do), then any criticism on October 28 will be more along the lines of of who might get home field in the 3rd round vs. a particular matchup. If the argument is over who should be statewide #1 overall instead of 2, or who is maybe listed as a 16 who is "clearly" better than the 14 and 15, then reasonable enough for me, but more importantly hopefully the coaches and players will see it as fair. So I'm good to wait until 10/28 to see if my guess is correct, that this thing will be close enough, beyond some quibbling over a few matchups that might not occur until the later rounds.
But again interesting discussion: some of the ideas for a new ranking system on the surface appear to have merit; just not sure of the necessity to make wholesale changes w/o strong evidence at seasons-end that the current one is illegit.