Northwestern 3A/4A
- Thread starter patsfball
- Start date
Yes. I stunk it up with the NW Conference. I actually thought the East Gaston was a toss up and Saint would be Saint. Hibriten rolled.
You got that right and the whole game. Midway through the 1st qtr, I thought we already had the game won.....but I was so wrong.
The momentum definitely swung on the EG fumble and # 34 injury. Different game after that.
No longer a NW4a school but wow, East Burke even advances. Defeated Randy Travis' alma mater ha ha. All will be short lived I'd imagine around this Friday.
South will done this Friday too.... Well hope not but the game speaks for itself. When u play a 4a opponent in playoffs that has a losing record, you are probably done the next round. Key an I mean only key to a South victory next Friday is eat clock/sustain the drives an hold on as much as possible on defense...an of course penalities on the other team which last night helped South tremendously.
Surprised with Saint an Hibriten. Just glad to see Saint winning games, been way too long for those guys. Thought Hibriten was cooked with EG but they proved me wrong.
South will done this Friday too.... Well hope not but the game speaks for itself. When u play a 4a opponent in playoffs that has a losing record, you are probably done the next round. Key an I mean only key to a South victory next Friday is eat clock/sustain the drives an hold on as much as possible on defense...an of course penalities on the other team which last night helped South tremendously.
Surprised with Saint an Hibriten. Just glad to see Saint winning games, been way too long for those guys. Thought Hibriten was cooked with EG but they proved me wrong.
Proud of the Pioneers, though. They battled hard all night, just couldn't get a stop when they needed it. Glad to see the NW 3A/4A have a solid showing, doesn't surprise me a bit.
Hater: A person that simply cannot be happy for another person's success. So rather than be happy they make a point of exposing a flaw in that person.
Hating: the result of being a hater, is not exactly jealousy. The hater doesn't really want to be the person he or she hates, rather the hater wants to knock someone down a notch.
That is the kind of people we have on this message board. We all have our team that we have passion for and passion against. There is always that team that for one reason or another we secretly want to fall flat on their face. What some people have lost sight of is that they are not giving credit where credit is due. They want to make every excuse under the sun for why their team isn't winning and then make excuses for why other teams are.
GDG seems to have a vendetta against South Caldwell. Mr. Doss, in the past you have been accused of doing the same, but I must say you have been on target with your comments and have been very respectful this season, and I thank you for that. Others on this board have called out GDG for some of his statements, and he has retracted a few as well. I just find it funny that his statements are now all over the South/AL Brown board as well. I understand that message boards are a place of friendly trash talking and rightfully so. What kills me is that you come off as an expert on South Caldwell, when in reality you are nothing of the sort. So I thought I would take a look at some topics that have involved GDG and South Caldwell this season.
Hating: the result of being a hater, is not exactly jealousy. The hater doesn't really want to be the person he or she hates, rather the hater wants to knock someone down a notch.
That is the kind of people we have on this message board. We all have our team that we have passion for and passion against. There is always that team that for one reason or another we secretly want to fall flat on their face. What some people have lost sight of is that they are not giving credit where credit is due. They want to make every excuse under the sun for why their team isn't winning and then make excuses for why other teams are.
GDG seems to have a vendetta against South Caldwell. Mr. Doss, in the past you have been accused of doing the same, but I must say you have been on target with your comments and have been very respectful this season, and I thank you for that. Others on this board have called out GDG for some of his statements, and he has retracted a few as well. I just find it funny that his statements are now all over the South/AL Brown board as well. I understand that message boards are a place of friendly trash talking and rightfully so. What kills me is that you come off as an expert on South Caldwell, when in reality you are nothing of the sort. So I thought I would take a look at some topics that have involved GDG and South Caldwell this season.
#1 What is the deal with this idea that classification really matters at all in this area? I think we can all agree that high school football in western North Carolina (west of Iredell County) is not exactly strong. There are some exceptions to that statement, but since 2000 there have been 15 schools that have won state championships at all four levels. Not exactly a lot of parity when you compare it to those in the central and east. Since this is a Northwestern page I am generally speaking about schools in this area. Most are 2A/3A and if the new realignment holds true, South Caldwell and McDowell will be the only 4A schools in the west. Here is what GDG had to say:
"If you will have South schedule four 4A schools next year I will pay the gas bill difference between scheduling 2A schools. It will be chump change. We're talking a $125.00 difference for four games." "This gas excuse is lame. Schools spend that much on cookies for open house."
Are you an athletic director? Do you actually know the cost of travel for a high school athletics? Who should South go out and schedule? Lake Norman... Mooresville...? Both of those would be at the least a 1 1/2 hour drive on a bus. Or how about TC Roberson under their current 4A classification. That would be almost a 2 hour drive. Each scenario would cost much more than your so called chump change and would hurt the athletic department as a whole more than it would help. McDowell dropped South Caldwell years ago when they could no longer compete with them. So what exactly are their options other than to play local teams and do the best they can? I notice that GDG speaks often about ADM numbers and even talks about schools in Catawba county that have to deal with early colleges and other institutions that add kids to ADMs. Then he has statements like this:
"Go out and look for some non conference competition every year instead of playing 850 ADM teams with your 1850."
"Played a soft non conference schedule of 2A teams and a county 3A team that has 2A numbers."
"South Caldwell can beat 2A teams, even a 3A team with 2A numbers but not even average 3A squads."
"South will fall again. Watauga is not a 2A school- Watauga. Definitely more athletes on their side."
For one GDG, South has to deal with the early college at Caldwell CC. So much so that I would say that their ADM number is inflated with as many as 250-300 students. So without those kids South would be right at the cut-off point of being 3A under the new classification. The numbers for the other two county schools don't hurt them nearly as much. But since you were an expert on South Caldwell I'm sure you already knew all of this.
"If you will have South schedule four 4A schools next year I will pay the gas bill difference between scheduling 2A schools. It will be chump change. We're talking a $125.00 difference for four games." "This gas excuse is lame. Schools spend that much on cookies for open house."
Are you an athletic director? Do you actually know the cost of travel for a high school athletics? Who should South go out and schedule? Lake Norman... Mooresville...? Both of those would be at the least a 1 1/2 hour drive on a bus. Or how about TC Roberson under their current 4A classification. That would be almost a 2 hour drive. Each scenario would cost much more than your so called chump change and would hurt the athletic department as a whole more than it would help. McDowell dropped South Caldwell years ago when they could no longer compete with them. So what exactly are their options other than to play local teams and do the best they can? I notice that GDG speaks often about ADM numbers and even talks about schools in Catawba county that have to deal with early colleges and other institutions that add kids to ADMs. Then he has statements like this:
"Go out and look for some non conference competition every year instead of playing 850 ADM teams with your 1850."
"Played a soft non conference schedule of 2A teams and a county 3A team that has 2A numbers."
"South Caldwell can beat 2A teams, even a 3A team with 2A numbers but not even average 3A squads."
"South will fall again. Watauga is not a 2A school- Watauga. Definitely more athletes on their side."
For one GDG, South has to deal with the early college at Caldwell CC. So much so that I would say that their ADM number is inflated with as many as 250-300 students. So without those kids South would be right at the cut-off point of being 3A under the new classification. The numbers for the other two county schools don't hurt them nearly as much. But since you were an expert on South Caldwell I'm sure you already knew all of this.
#2 GDG seems to think that "ALL" the success that South has had in the last 20 years is due to two players that should have been playing at other schools.
"I like you guys showing up when you win a few games using transfers from other counties, i.e. Landon Dickson from Hickory and two years ago all world Zack Pollard from St. Stephens. Good recruits."
"Gentlemen we are running out of players to send to South Caldwell to help them compete. Zach Pollard and Dickerson quality is getting low. We will need to do border patrol at the Hwy321 bridge next year.
For starters Pollard lived and played ball most of his life in Granite Falls from what I understand. Because of family he moved in with one parent in the St. Stephens district for middle school, and then chose to move back in with the other parent who still lived in Granite. Dickerson played on a disaster of a team, for an even bigger disaster of a coach, and he and his family made the decision to leave. In the middle of a football season no less. And now lives in Granite Falls. Then you make yet another statement like this:
"You have three over .500 years in twenty years even scheduling down."
When in actuality, just since Butch Carter took over (2001 I believe) they have 7 alone. So who was your fact finder on that one? Let's take things a bit further. Since 2001 when Carter took over if you look at the Northwestern Conference, South Caldwell is 103-78 which is very similar to the likes of Freedom and Hibriten, with all three winning multiple conference crowns. Others have mentioned Watauga being a great team during the Breitenstein years. Hibriten had strong teams with possible West Caldwell players. Freedom has kids from Hickory and Patton. So why do you continue to talk about 2.... I'll say it again, 2 kids that you say are the only reason for the success of South Caldwell football in the last 20 years. Ask local coaches. They will tell you different I promise.
"I like you guys showing up when you win a few games using transfers from other counties, i.e. Landon Dickson from Hickory and two years ago all world Zack Pollard from St. Stephens. Good recruits."
"Gentlemen we are running out of players to send to South Caldwell to help them compete. Zach Pollard and Dickerson quality is getting low. We will need to do border patrol at the Hwy321 bridge next year.
For starters Pollard lived and played ball most of his life in Granite Falls from what I understand. Because of family he moved in with one parent in the St. Stephens district for middle school, and then chose to move back in with the other parent who still lived in Granite. Dickerson played on a disaster of a team, for an even bigger disaster of a coach, and he and his family made the decision to leave. In the middle of a football season no less. And now lives in Granite Falls. Then you make yet another statement like this:
"You have three over .500 years in twenty years even scheduling down."
When in actuality, just since Butch Carter took over (2001 I believe) they have 7 alone. So who was your fact finder on that one? Let's take things a bit further. Since 2001 when Carter took over if you look at the Northwestern Conference, South Caldwell is 103-78 which is very similar to the likes of Freedom and Hibriten, with all three winning multiple conference crowns. Others have mentioned Watauga being a great team during the Breitenstein years. Hibriten had strong teams with possible West Caldwell players. Freedom has kids from Hickory and Patton. So why do you continue to talk about 2.... I'll say it again, 2 kids that you say are the only reason for the success of South Caldwell football in the last 20 years. Ask local coaches. They will tell you different I promise.
#3 GDG constantly talks about South Caldwell players as if he coached them or he was working for ESPN as an analyst.
"South doesn't pass at all. Maybe three times a game. Run a basic offense. No real speed on either side of the ball"
"No need for anything other than man coverage at the corner and stack th box. They don't run on the edges very much."
"South Caldwell isn't exactly a scoring machine"
"Two passes a game will be a complete fail come playoff time. Nice people and students but that offense is grade school stuff against real competition"
"South has always had kids who could sling the ball. Coaching doesn't like passing at SC. South's biggest issue is lack of speed outside of a few kids. Mainly defensively. Most coaches can't embrace change."
I will admit that South does commit heavy to the running game. But show me a team that wins championships throwing the ball 20/30+ times without a division one quarterback. I sure don't see any. Do you actually know what kind of offense South runs? If it's grade school stuff and so basic why can't anyone stop it? And when I mean anyone that includes the playoffs. I seem to remember numerous 300/400/500 yard rushing games. Ask Sun Valley how they liked 350 yards rushing in the first half. Ask the kids from High Point Central how they liked it and why could they not stop such a simple offense. I went to the game Friday night. I saw multiple "slow" South Caldwell runs of 60 plus yards on a team that according to everyone on here and Carolina Preps was built for speed. South runs the bucksweep... that would be on the "edges" as you put it. South Caldwell scored 36 points per game this year. Ask some of the coaches in the area if they would have liked to have scored that many a game. Please tell me sir, other than the Justice kid in the early 2000s and the Soles kid in recent years, just who has South had that could "sling the ball." If any other South fans can help me out I would like to know else I would be forgetting about.
"South doesn't pass at all. Maybe three times a game. Run a basic offense. No real speed on either side of the ball"
"No need for anything other than man coverage at the corner and stack th box. They don't run on the edges very much."
"South Caldwell isn't exactly a scoring machine"
"Two passes a game will be a complete fail come playoff time. Nice people and students but that offense is grade school stuff against real competition"
"South has always had kids who could sling the ball. Coaching doesn't like passing at SC. South's biggest issue is lack of speed outside of a few kids. Mainly defensively. Most coaches can't embrace change."
I will admit that South does commit heavy to the running game. But show me a team that wins championships throwing the ball 20/30+ times without a division one quarterback. I sure don't see any. Do you actually know what kind of offense South runs? If it's grade school stuff and so basic why can't anyone stop it? And when I mean anyone that includes the playoffs. I seem to remember numerous 300/400/500 yard rushing games. Ask Sun Valley how they liked 350 yards rushing in the first half. Ask the kids from High Point Central how they liked it and why could they not stop such a simple offense. I went to the game Friday night. I saw multiple "slow" South Caldwell runs of 60 plus yards on a team that according to everyone on here and Carolina Preps was built for speed. South runs the bucksweep... that would be on the "edges" as you put it. South Caldwell scored 36 points per game this year. Ask some of the coaches in the area if they would have liked to have scored that many a game. Please tell me sir, other than the Justice kid in the early 2000s and the Soles kid in recent years, just who has South had that could "sling the ball." If any other South fans can help me out I would like to know else I would be forgetting about.
#4 My last question to you is, if you don't pass the ball considerably well, you are quite effective in the running game, and play sound defense, why on earth would you pass just to pass? It has nothing to do about accepting change. It's about understanding what your players are good at and building a program around them. Maybe your Devils (which one it is still confuses me) need to do the same thing. Because it seems like to me, many coaches could take a page out of South's plan and put it to good use. But no, instead we have to read about how little South passes the ball. What about how awful and seldom Hibriten, Patton, Foard, and others pass? No one says a word about coaches who run a spread or triple option offense with a bunch of white slow kids and pass just for the sake of passing or don't have the personnel to do so. When you have multiple 400+ yard rushing nights, including one over 600, why pass? I understand that it poses difficulty in the playoffs, but I've always felt that you should stick to what you are good at. Otherwise you put your defense in bad situations with turnovers, and they never leave the field.
In closing I apologize for the length of this post. I suppose it's due to the lengthy BS that we have been fed by GDG in the last year or more since he's has graced us with his knowledge. Someone else asked recently why he feels like his 2 cents matter on this page and why he can't keep to what he knows with the Devils. Again I don't even know which team it is. I don't know if this is how others have felt or not, I just had to get this out of my system. Good luck to ALL in the area in their 2nd round games this Friday!
In closing I apologize for the length of this post. I suppose it's due to the lengthy BS that we have been fed by GDG in the last year or more since he's has graced us with his knowledge. Someone else asked recently why he feels like his 2 cents matter on this page and why he can't keep to what he knows with the Devils. Again I don't even know which team it is. I don't know if this is how others have felt or not, I just had to get this out of my system. Good luck to ALL in the area in their 2nd round games this Friday!
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Zack Pollard, played rec. football with the Granite Falls Panthers. Direct snap from the wildcat: cut, gone, bye, bye, TD.
On Dickerson, the family wanted out, so they made the move. Who can blame them! Just like Crawford, Kincaid, and Dumain, moving from Hickory to Freedom. Dumain is home grown in Burke, Freedom was where he started, so he went back home to Freedom.
On Dickerson, the family wanted out, so they made the move. Who can blame them! Just like Crawford, Kincaid, and Dumain, moving from Hickory to Freedom. Dumain is home grown in Burke, Freedom was where he started, so he went back home to Freedom.
"No one says a word about coaches who run a spread or triple option offense with a bunch of white slow kids and pass just for the sake of passing or don't have the personnel to do so. "
Several years ago shelby fans where complaining about there option offense today shelby looks like the greatest show on turf slinging it all over the place. Read an Asheville, South Point, or Richmond thread plenty of folks complain about old school 3 yd and a cloud of dust offenses.
Several years ago shelby fans where complaining about there option offense today shelby looks like the greatest show on turf slinging it all over the place. Read an Asheville, South Point, or Richmond thread plenty of folks complain about old school 3 yd and a cloud of dust offenses.
Yeah, the difference is all of these teams you have mentioned have the skill kids to run that kind of offense. A prime example is Fred T Foard. Why on earth would you run a spread offense with their current roster? Another example would be a basketball team with a lack of speed being asked to run a man to man or full court press defense. You just can't ask kids to do things they are physically and skillfully unable to do. If South tried to sling the ball around they would never win a ball game. Ask some South alums of the 80s who played football. I remember watching them struggle so much on offense because they didn't have an identity. On top of that their defense was not that strong. That equals instability and not a lot of "Ws." So I ask again, why pass just for the sake of passing if you are not very good at it? It's been a long time since South had skilled QB/WR combos that would allow for them to open up. I didn't get to see the South/Maiden game last year, but all I could think watching the game this year is, why are they not running the ball? You've got that QB and you want to continue to throw? Maybe I'm a little too old school.
Fred T Foard slung the ball last year with a borrowed QB. Hibriten could throw the ball when Molly Norwood and Michael isbell were QB'S (both teams went to regional finals). Different strokes for different folks but a 1 deminsional offense will only take you so far. That said carter does have the guts to kick an onside kick or fake a punt every now and then and they are much more competitive than they were 15 years ago.
I remember when South had a very good team with a dang good QB by the name of Kirpatrick. Sure passed it then with no speed.
Well in the middle of all this biography on GDG an South, I'd just like to ask who the possibilities, just possibilities now, lol on who MIGHT be the new head coach next year.
I know I mentioned Beam from N-C/Burns/North Lincoln but he is a shotgun passing offense kinda coach. Then again he may be a play your strengths an adjust with a few differ twists kinda coach. Good coach all together. Not sure if he plans on hanging around N-C long.
They need a good one reguardless. One that makes good split decisions in the hottest of moments. Not just a good game plan.
I wish the best for South this Friday, I really do. But AL Brown will most likely be way too much for em. High Point Central with a losing record coulda took that game (not easily) if the penalties an couple key fumbles were taken out.
Freedom on the other hand could havean upset on their hands. I hope not an am pulling for em' cause they represent the conf an Burke co. Kings Mtn peaked fast on a much improved East Burke team an shut them out. Will be a nailbitter of a game. Hibriten an Saint- very interesting. Saint in the 3rd round will turn some heads
Go Indians- pull the upset.
Just my 2 cents
I know I mentioned Beam from N-C/Burns/North Lincoln but he is a shotgun passing offense kinda coach. Then again he may be a play your strengths an adjust with a few differ twists kinda coach. Good coach all together. Not sure if he plans on hanging around N-C long.
They need a good one reguardless. One that makes good split decisions in the hottest of moments. Not just a good game plan.
I wish the best for South this Friday, I really do. But AL Brown will most likely be way too much for em. High Point Central with a losing record coulda took that game (not easily) if the penalties an couple key fumbles were taken out.
Freedom on the other hand could havean upset on their hands. I hope not an am pulling for em' cause they represent the conf an Burke co. Kings Mtn peaked fast on a much improved East Burke team an shut them out. Will be a nailbitter of a game. Hibriten an Saint- very interesting. Saint in the 3rd round will turn some heads
Go Indians- pull the upset.Just my 2 cents
Watauga Democrat confirmed that the Pioneers will be 3A for the 2017-2018 season. Patton will drop to 2A and West Caldwell should replace them as the 3A. There has been talk about Watauga becoming part of a 2A/3A conference in the Western area, so I'm not sure.
Sparty, I appreciate your loyalty to the South program and would personally
like to see a team from this conference (including South) win a state championship.
I don't think it's a vendetta against South, facts are facts. Carter will not throw the football.
It is very unrealistic to say that a school that size never has a QB that can throw
or a receiver that can catch. Some of the best arms and hands in the state are on
your baseball field. It's what you coach - If you coach your receivers to be blockers/lineman
and your QB's to be running backs, that's what you get.....over and over and over....
like to see a team from this conference (including South) win a state championship.
I don't think it's a vendetta against South, facts are facts. Carter will not throw the football.
It is very unrealistic to say that a school that size never has a QB that can throw
or a receiver that can catch. Some of the best arms and hands in the state are on
your baseball field. It's what you coach - If you coach your receivers to be blockers/lineman
and your QB's to be running backs, that's what you get.....over and over and over....
Wow, I'm sure Carter and his staff have never thought about that before. So with that logic you can make any player, regardless of skill level to be a quarterback or a receiver. All it takes is coaching. I will have to stop by South this afternoon on my way home to Hickory and relay the message. I love the type of kids that South Caldwell has, but if you think that there are all conference throwing QBs and fast sure handed WRs walking the halls, you are mistaken. You are right about one thing, there are and have been some great arms and hands on the diamond. The problem is for the last decade those kids never set foot on another field or court for that matter. South is not blessed with the type of talent that some like Freedom has. In fact I feel like Freedom wastes a lot of talent. I'll end with this statement, if you don't have horses, then why would you enter the derby? To say that all it takes is coaching and an open mind, that is completely foolish. That would be your first and last decision before they booted you out the door.
Whatever dude. If you really believe that no one from Hudson, Dudley,
Granite Falls can throw or catch you are silly. Where is the logic?
Stick with your game plan and you will be watching another team play
next week. Maybe when it's all over (thisFriday night) St Stephens might
give ya'll a rematch.
Granite Falls can throw or catch you are silly. Where is the logic?
Stick with your game plan and you will be watching another team play
next week. Maybe when it's all over (thisFriday night) St Stephens might
give ya'll a rematch.
I like South so I'll say this, they do have some kids who can throw or catch but from people who aren't around here...you really don't know what you are talking about. And I'm not being a jerk about it but people don't. South is a baseball school. And not baseball first..more of baseball only in which if you are on the baseball team and want to play then you don't play football. You don't play basketball or soccer. You play baseball. And if you choose to play another sport then you either won't be on the team or you will ride the pine. So in other words, it doesn't matter about how good our baseball kids are. A lot like West and basketball in their past.
Another thing that hurts South is they really aren't a 4A school. They have round 250 to 300 Middle and Early college kids in their district who never step foot on South's campus. If not for having to count those kids then they would have 3A numbers and that would be big. They will never compete for a 4A title..just can't do. But the state says if they live in your district then you count them so that's just how it is.
Lastly, if you live around here then you should know that South isn't a typical 4A school. They do not have 4A athletes in Hudson, Granite, or Dudley. Yes we have good players and they bust their butt but where some schools just have talent year in and out, South doesn't. Maiden is a 2A school close to here who have probably twice the talent with half the kids. That does have to go into peoples heads. That's the only reason the "they are 4A" comment gets old. Because with that theory you are saying South should beat Shelby every year based on classification and we all know that's false. The area which you get kids is important and South doesn't have the athletes in the are.
So yes, I like South and think that they do a fantastic job with the hands they are dealt. I think that same staff wins big if they were at a school like Maiden or NC. But I'm proud of what they do. They don't make excuses. You can't recruit so you take what you get and make the most of it like each school does. Just saying before people say things, know what you are talking about cause some things on here just aren't the facts.
Another thing that hurts South is they really aren't a 4A school. They have round 250 to 300 Middle and Early college kids in their district who never step foot on South's campus. If not for having to count those kids then they would have 3A numbers and that would be big. They will never compete for a 4A title..just can't do. But the state says if they live in your district then you count them so that's just how it is.
Lastly, if you live around here then you should know that South isn't a typical 4A school. They do not have 4A athletes in Hudson, Granite, or Dudley. Yes we have good players and they bust their butt but where some schools just have talent year in and out, South doesn't. Maiden is a 2A school close to here who have probably twice the talent with half the kids. That does have to go into peoples heads. That's the only reason the "they are 4A" comment gets old. Because with that theory you are saying South should beat Shelby every year based on classification and we all know that's false. The area which you get kids is important and South doesn't have the athletes in the are.
So yes, I like South and think that they do a fantastic job with the hands they are dealt. I think that same staff wins big if they were at a school like Maiden or NC. But I'm proud of what they do. They don't make excuses. You can't recruit so you take what you get and make the most of it like each school does. Just saying before people say things, know what you are talking about cause some things on here just aren't the facts.
Gonna be hard for South to replace what they are losing this year. How was the JV team looking? Any big head turners coming up next year?
Someone told me that the JVs were not as strong as some from the last few years but they did win the conference outright I believe. QB was a leader from what I saw in their game against West Caldwell. It was the only game I was able to see. I think they finished 8-2 with losses to Alexander and a close game to Hibriten.
Can't remember the year but south had a good team that made a run in the playoffs I think they lost to crest who later was DQ they had a sophomore RB Jimmy Messer never played football after that season played baseball with Madison Bumgarner team and played college baseball at UNC.
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