Legislature Meeting 4 PM — NCHSAA Future

btango

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odd way to show their support. just check the ‘keep them in’ box.
More simple for the superintendent's rep (county AD) not to do a ballot for the 16 or so schools at the time.

May be a way to show their lack of support of having the vote.
 

btango

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North Stanly and West Stanly were the Stanly County schools that spearheaded that with North's principal being the driving force. Albemarle did not vote for it. Not sure about South Stanly but they normally aligned with Albemarle at that time.
 

sammyk

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OK coached against Charlotte Catholic twice , both times in the playoffs. Lost both times and afterwards my kids got a lot of Pizza and gatorade. I have nothing but respect for CC and do not think they or the other Catholic schools should be ousted. If you have ever played them they do have 5'8 155 DB's and are not stacked with a ton of athletes. In fact they might be the least athletic winning football team in Charlotte heck some of the .500 teams in Charlotte/Winston/Raleigh are more athletic. What makes them so good is the program they have they run that wing t that no one runs anymore and that just grinds you to hamburger. Defense is pretty much a 4-3. Now why do you think they run that O and D? Lack of athletes. Their kids are so sound so well coached that they beat bigger faster teams. Now do they have normal district lines like say Olympic ? No they don't but they also do not have the players that Olympic has either. If you are going to get rid of the Catholic schools you better get rid of the charter schools as well. If I am some of these 1A or 2A schools I would be screaming from the tree tops saying unfair advantage. But as far as CC, CG , BMcG, CK move them up a classification and be done with it.
 

btango

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Rowan County schools did the same thing in 2012. The only reason the votes don’t pass is because soooo many people abstain. Admin deep in the mountains or way east or wherever don’t pay enough attention to matters. I’ll find the numbers for you.
That was the most hypocritical thing I have seen. The coach that led the charge on that won two state championships at a previous school and his superstar running back lived in a different school district. Go figure.
 

strikerHHS

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Yes, we do work hard. We pride ourselves on our work ethic. Coach Oddo instilled it in the football program and it bled through into other sports as he was the AD and also won a couple state titles as a women's swim coach. We pride ourselves on outworking the opponent and out executing them. We don't have the talent of a MC, Butler, Chambers or Wake Forest. We do execute at an incredibly high level.
If you think we are out cherry picking athletes then where are all the big D1 signings from football this year? I'll wait. We had one Bucknell signee and one go to Lommis Chaffee prep school from there he'll head to Navy.
Florida is a prime example because their level of football is high, they do not run from competition or try to 'vote it out', same with other states I named.
Optics, lol ok, yes, optics are important, but you ignored the charter school question. You glossed over it, they get to pick from large swaths of territory (25 miles), many of them in metropolitan areas, why are we not throwing them out?
We actually play by tougher rules, we are scrutinized more than any public school in the state would be because the state makes sure we follow those rules to a T. Which we do.
Love that you are such an advocate for all the public schools! Why not be more vocal about the disparities in funding a school like Harding gets from CMS vs Ardrey Kell. You don't care about that do you? No, you don't. You care about your anti-Catholic school bias and that's about it. Do not hide behind a vail of wanting what is best for public schools when you don't know what is really best or needed.
I wonder what your opinion is on Chamber's field, it'd be best for them to get a new one? Where's your advocating for that? I won't hold my breath.

“Charter schools in North Carolina are public schools operated independently of public school systems. Charter schools generally receive a percentage of the per-pupil funds from the state and local school districts for operational costs based on enrollment.”

That’s your answer — NC tax payer dollars. The general assembly can’t justify completely removing them from public school athletics when they’re (in part) publicly funded.
 
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strikerHHS

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OK coached against Charlotte Catholic twice , both times in the playoffs. Lost both times and afterwards my kids got a lot of Pizza and gatorade. I have nothing but respect for CC and do not think they or the other Catholic schools should be ousted. If you have ever played them they do have 5'8 155 DB's and are not stacked with a ton of athletes. In fact they might be the least athletic winning football team in Charlotte heck some of the .500 teams in Charlotte/Winston/Raleigh are more athletic. What makes them so good is the program they have they run that wing t that no one runs anymore and that just grinds you to hamburger. Defense is pretty much a 4-3. Now why do you think they run that O and D? Lack of athletes. Their kids are so sound so well coached that they beat bigger faster teams. Now do they have normal district lines like say Olympic ? No they don't but they also do not have the players that Olympic has either. If you are going to get rid of the Catholic schools you better get rid of the charter schools as well. If I am some of these 1A or 2A schools I would be screaming from the tree tops saying unfair advantage. But as far as CC, CG , BMcG, CK move them up a classification and be done with it.

Agreed. Move Charlotte Catholic and Cardinal Gibbons up to 5A and let them play each other 🙂
 
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strikerHHS

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I may lose if I play them or I may win but I like the competition, I like to compete and so do my kids.

Who’s kids don’t enjoy competition? Look, no one thinks Charlotte Catholic is a dirty program filled with bad-intentioned people. No one thinks they’re off signing recruiting classes every year like a college program. I have no personal animosity towards CC. I enjoyed the soccer games and golf matches with CC back in the early 2000s when they were at the 2A level.

But there is a fundamental difference that can’t be ignored and anyone who points it out shouldn’t be labeled a “sore loser”.

Hypothetically, we’re both starting a football program and get 85 players each. My 85 are randomly assigned to me. You get to pick your 85. While nothing is guaranteed, you are far more likely to field a better team.

Two parochial schools, based in our state’s largest cities, have blown by everyone else with 70+ state championships. Some of y’all want to believe it’s just a random coincidence — and they work harder or do this and that better, they’ve figured out something the rest of the schools have not.

Others, like me, don’t see it the same way. Logically speaking, it just doesn’t make sense. It’s not as simple as that.

Parochial schools, who are given permission to operate differently than the rest, have maintained an unparalleled level of athletic success. Any objective person would have questions about a level playing field.
 
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sammyk

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Who’s kids don’t enjoy competition? Look, no one thinks Charlotte Catholic is a dirty program filled with bad-intentioned people. No one thinks they’re off signing recruiting classes every year like a college program. I have no personal animosity towards CC. I enjoyed the soccer games and golf matches with CC back in the early 2000s when they were at the 2A level.

But there is a fundamental difference that can’t be ignored and anyone who points it out shouldn’t be labeled a “sore loser”.

Hypothetically, we’re both starting a football program and get 85 players each. My 85 are randomly assigned to me. You get to pick your 85. While nothing is guaranteed, you are far more likely to field a better team.

Two parochial schools, based in our state’s largest cities, have blown by everyone else with 70+ state championships. Some of y’all want to believe it’s just a random coincidence — and they work harder or do this and that better, they’ve figured out something the rest of the schools have not.

Others, like me, don’t see it the same way. Logically speaking, it just doesn’t make sense. It’s not as simple as that.

Parochial schools, who are given permission to operate differently than the rest, have maintained an unparalleled level of athletic success. Any objective person would have questions about a level playing field.
To me charter schools are more of a problem than the Catholics. You at least have to pay to go there and Charter schools ge to pick who they get to c=keep as well and are shady . But to each their own
 
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strikerHHS

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To me charter schools are more of a problem than the Catholics. You at least have to pay to go there and Charter schools ge to pick who they get to c=keep as well and are shady . But to each their own

It’s a complicated situation with the charter schools. They operate more like private schools, but they’re technically still considered public and receive public funding. The General Assembly couldn’t get around that key difference.

I imagine charter schools will eventually be separated from traditional public schools once there are enough of them to create a statewide league.
 
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sammyk

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It’s a complicated situation with the charter schools. They operate more like private schools, but they’re technically still considered public and receive public funding. The General Assembly couldn’t get around that key difference.

I imagine charter schools will eventually be separated from traditional public schools once there are enough of them to create a statewide league.
Not as long as one party holds most of the cards. This thing will become real political in hurry just watch. You 1A and 2A schools are about to get royally screwed
 

remotecougar

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There is a lot of ignorance and intellectually lazy remarks being spewed around. I am not sure this blog is a place for a factual history lesson as it seems obvious that some find it very easy to be 100% positive about something they know very little about. However, I will make an attempt to clear up some of the misconceptions that seem so dear to a few posters.

CCHS is a parochial school and there is a difference between what some sneer is a parochial school and private school. The US catholic school system encompasses approximately 7,000 schools and is the largest non government school system. Most North Carolina residents ( except those who relocated from other parts of the country do not realize that Catholics make up the largest religious denomination and are 22% of the US population. When Catholic entered the NCHSSA Catholics were about 3% of the population. That has grown to around 7-8% today and probably is a larger % in metro areas. Of the nearly 7000 school in the US only 48 are in North Carolina. In the Chicago Archdiocese where the population is about 60% of the population of North Carolina there is almost 5 times the number of Catholic schools.

Because most states recognize and agree that the catholic parochial school system more closely resembles the public school system than individual private schools, they are typically grouped together with public schools in their state run athletic organizations. Of course Catholic boarding schools are not afforded that opportunity. Hence the NCHSSA charter includes non boarding parochial schools in the charter.

In some states the catholic school system reseding in numbers have creating funding problems for public schools. Lets not forget that student who go to the parochial schools still pay the same taxes for public schools as students that go to public schools. The total cost for public would be much higher without parochial especially in places where there are so many more catholic schools in the area. Parochial schools are also subsidized by the church parishes and their feeder elementary and middles resemble to the public school system as if you go to this school you then move to this high school.

The whole boundary discussion is without merit. Can anyone who makes these claims with such certainty show a documented study that a school with a larger logistical boundary have advantages over schools with a smaller boundary. Just seems like an argument from those who are a mile wide and inch deep in their understanding. I think CCHS is 90+% compromised of students from local parishes. Here is a rhetorical Math question that might stop the intellectually lazy group. If catholics make up 8% of the population and only 50% of the Catholics belong to a parish and the average school district is 6 miles. How large would the the boundary need to be to fill out the student body. I would suggest the boundary is the driving distance that one may be able to deal with.

Rest assured it is bigger than the 25 miles radius that everyone agreed to.

It is a fact that the schools in Charlotte have received more kids from the Catholic system than CCHS has pulled from the public system. The invalidates so many things that is posted on this blog.

Catholic joined the NCHSSA back in the early 70 (s) and if you talk to the leadership of the NCHSSA they will say they have been a great member. They help foster competition in the NCHSSA and have chosen to belong to this organization. They want to compete against the best. For the record, who is to say Catholic would be welcome as a parochial school into a private school league.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but it is obvious that some opinions are not as well reasoned and without bias. It was embarrassing to watch several of the legislatures speak during the session. From my vantage point they did not seem to be qualified to run a HOA.
 

remotecougar

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North Stanly and West Stanly were the Stanly County schools that spearheaded that with North's principal being the driving force. Albemarle did not vote for it. Not sure about South Stanly but they normally aligned with Albemarle at that time.
I will illuminate your remarks and say it was Mr Massey from North Stanley who demonstrated some interesting bigotry during these meetings. He was very uncomfortable having any discussion with CCHS principal, Sister Paulette Williams and several of the other school made him appear very small. The coach at Monroe at the time had the most to gain if CCHS was removed becuase at that time they were the two dominate programs. He made some very good points in the session to refute those who asserted their typical false narrative. He simply asked a few question to define their concern. they were not hard questions.. with each question the amount of bias grew until Mr Massey seemed to say they have to go they are just different.
 

Appvol

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I am not aware on any direct State or federal funding. I guess you can say as a non profit they could get indirect funding but the school is not a for profit business.
So CC doesn’t have to teach state standards. I would guess teachers aren’t paid by the state or have state retirement.
 

CatholicCougs14

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So CC doesn’t have to teach state standards. I would guess teachers aren’t paid by the state or have state retirement.
Correct. No pension, no state funds. Their standards are pretty close to state standards though.
 

strikerHHS

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According to the Ashevill paper all of the atheletic director they contacted in WNC are against this bill.

11 of them. I wish the citizen times would’ve asked better questions. I wish the 11 were better informed on the issues.

$40M endowment stockpile. Last year NCHSAA handed out $400,000 in fines to our schools while providing just $40,000 in scholarship money for our student-athletes. That’s shameful.

An unwillingness to sit down and discuss the school fines/player suspension process with some NC lawmakers started this thing. The more-or-less outright refusal to work with the state and agree to become more transparent with their operations given everything is financed with public funds. Commish pissed off the wrong Senators and now they’ve decided to do something about it.

Pride kills
 

btango

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$40M endowment stockpile. Last year NCHSAA handed out $400,000 in fines to our schools while providing just $40,000 in scholarship money for our student-athletes. That’s shameful.
Putting out false information. Although it may support your theory please refrain.

There were not $400,000 in fines last year. The fines range from $100 to $1,000. The $400,000 is either five or ten years and includes the forfeiture of playoff money the teams received but were later found to have used an ineligible player. Example is Eastern Alamance. $500 fine but forfeited their portion of the playoff gates. In my opinion a portion of that money should have went to the team they beat the week before but not sure that would work well either.

A $1,000 fine would have been the brawl at East Meck with Hickory Ridge a few years ago. Unreal! If a school plays a home playoff game without the consent of the visitor and does not meet the minimum seating requirements. This one was pushed by the schools themselves.

$100 fine is for things like not providing form by a cutoff date which is not a tight time line. Not completing catastrophic insurance documents. Not providing an escort to officials. This was one started being enforced after some issues with aggressive fans after basketball games.

Do you pay a late fee for your utility bill, same thing on the forms to some degree.
 

btango

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The lawmakers are starting to get communications from ADs and system administrators that they are going to cause a serious hardship on all the schools and athletes with the rush on their plan. This bill is going to be paused or heavily adjusted. Look for a public announcement "we got what we want" so we will let it remain instead of saying "we realized we had no idea what we we doing."
 

strikerHHS

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“In the past five years alone, they’ve levied over $400k in fines against our schools while amassing over $40M in assets as of 2019,” she continued in an interview with CJ. “Despite their deep pockets, they’ve only awarded a total of $40,500 in scholarships to 35 high school students. The disparity between their wealth and the lack of support for our schools is staggering and in desperate need of oversight – which is why we’ve brought this legislation forward today.”

carolina journal

there you go. calm down. it’s fine that we disagree, but you and i’ve talked back and forth all week and you know i haven’t been purposely putting out false information.

i don’t have an agenda. would i prefer to see how things work under a different leadership group than NCHSSA? Yes. Would I prefer public school athletics be compromised of solely public schools? Yes

But at the end of the day if we keep with the status quo, it’s all good.
 
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strikerHHS

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this isn’t pro or even college sports. high school athletics aren’t a multi-billion dollar business. fines should only be handed down in the most egregious of situations.

i get enforcement is part of the job, but find a more constructive way of managing this. public schools can’t afford any more hits to their budget. $400K over the last 5 years is still way too much.
 

PrepFanNC

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I’m not against fines to keep Athletic Directors on their game. We all know that there are some great ones. We all know that there are some “not so” great ones. The amount of reminding and nagging that has to be done to get some of these folks to turn in stuff is probably a pain in the butt. Put out a calendar. Toss out a reminder email now and then, or one of those texts that the dentist sends me to make sure I don’t forget to come in.

I would like to see things change a bit when it comes to the fines concerning student athletes. But, again, it doesn’t take much first hand exposure to high school athletics to know that most coaches really expect a high level of sportsmanship and fair play, a few others…. Well, maybe not always. High School athletes need a governing body, but that body needs to be led by the schools, for the best interests of ALL the schools, as much as humanly possible. This means that one needs to get a straight answer from the NCHSAA when you call them.
Example:
A parent in my area calls the NCHSAA because a coach (not football) has told his players that summer workouts are mandatory, and that they are 6 days a week, 3 hours a day. The parent gets passed to FOUR different employees before they get referred to their county’s athletic director. Not good enough. No one ever stated what the actual policy was. Lazy.
Don’t get me started on the advisory board. If it were up to those folks to run NC HS Athletics, it wouldn’t be done well. For one, they are very busy with the jobs that they hold. Secondly, an individual’s opinion on any elected/appointed board isn’t worth much more than the airwaves it occupies.
 

strikerHHS

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Sawyer pointed out that schools with more resources, including some private schools like Charlotte Catholic and Cardinal Gibbons, receive more money from the association than schools from rural and poorer parts of the state. However, Tucker said the board of directors has reviewed its formula and that they hope changes they've made will cause that trend to reverse in coming years.

HSOT: NCHSAA HEARING

Anyone have a good understanding of this formula? On the surface, you can certainly understand why this wouldn’t go over well with a lot of people.
 
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CatholicCougs14

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Sawyer pointed out that schools with more resources, including some private schools like Charlotte Catholic and Cardinal Gibbons, receive more money from the association than schools from rural and poorer parts of the state. However, Tucker said the board of directors has reviewed its formula and that they hope changes they've made will cause that trend to reverse in coming years.

HSOT: NCHSAA HEARING

Anyone have a good understanding of this formula? On the surface, you can certainly understand why this wouldn’t go over well with a lot of people.
If the Parochials receive mote funding I for one think that should not be the case. We are ok and that money can go towards schools that need it
 

Hog_1982

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i don’t have an agenda. ... Would I prefer public school athletics be compromised of solely public schools? Yes

But at the end of the day if we keep with the status quo, it’s all good.
To anyone who can read, you've been pushing your agenda from the beginning...
 

bichromate

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“In the past five years alone, they’ve levied over $400k in fines against our schools while amassing over $40M in assets as of 2019,” she continued in an interview with CJ. “Despite their deep pockets, they’ve only awarded a total of $40,500 in scholarships to 35 high school students. The disparity between their wealth and the lack of support for our schools is staggering and in desperate need of oversight – which is why we’ve brought this legislation forward today.”

carolina journal

there you go. calm down. it’s fine that we disagree, but you and i’ve talked back and forth all week and you know i haven’t been purposely putting out false information.

i don’t have an agenda. would i prefer to see how things work under a different leadership group than NCHSSA? Yes. Would I prefer public school athletics be compromised of solely public schools? Yes

But at the end of the day if we keep with the status quo, it’s all good.
I have read this entire thread and cannot believe anyone can be on here defending the NCHSAA. Can anyone tell me why the NCAA needs to be sitting there with $41,000,000? As someone who spent many years working at a high school that was always selling cookies, hot dogs, shirts, hats, 50-50's, carwashes, pizzas, and anything else you can name, why does the NCHSAA need this kind of money? Would like to hear one reason. I could not believe the concept of the endowment game when it started - we'll let you play an extra game if you give us the gate, that was/is crazy as hell. I have not seen one thing on here from the ones defending this that makes sense: "Oh it's more complicated than you think, there's a lot of planning blah blah blah. That's why people are being (over)paid huge 6 figure salaries at NCHSAA. That has nothing to do with why the organization needs to take $41,000,000 from a lot of broke ass schools in struggling rural communites. Then I see on here the director uses racism as justification - the nchsaa should be completely eliminated if this their response and is how it is run. I have actually communicated with my representatives about this - something I never do but I find this so disgusting to all the small communities that work like dogs and then send the money off. Great information strikerHHS.
 

Hog_1982

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$40M endowment stockpile. Last year NCHSAA handed out $400,000 in fines to our schools while providing just $40,000 in scholarship money for our student-athletes. That’s shameful.
What the hell !!! Everyone is bitching, claiming that Catholic gives out scholarships (they don’t) and you just admit to it. Public schools are free so is for a new car ?
 

Hog_1982

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i’ve got an opinion, not an agenda. it’s not a goal of mine nor am i on some kind of personal mission to drive charlotte catholic out of the nchsaa.
Could of fooled me - What do you think btango, CatholicCougs14, et el ?
 

strikerHHS

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What the hell !!! Everyone is bitching, claiming that Catholic gives out scholarships (they don’t) and you just admit to it. Public schools are free so is for a new car ?

What are you rambling about? I’m not sure who everyone is, but I’ve never accused parochial schools of handing out athletic scholarships. From what I’ve read, parochial’s provide financial aid to eligible students when needed — however, athletes are excluded from that consideration.

The scholarship $ from the NCHSAA is to help student-athletes pay for college.
 

Hog_1982

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What are you rambling about? I’m not sure who everyone is, but I’ve never accused parochial schools of handing out athletic scholarships. From what I’ve read, parochial’s provide financial aid to eligible students when needed — however, athletes are excluded from that consideration.

The scholarship $ from the NCHSAA is to help student-athletes pay for college.
So another benefit that Catholic’s athletes are barred from partaking in. Sure looks like CCHS is willing to give a lot to play with the big boys..
 
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strikerHHS

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2007 Brendan McKillop was the Queen City POY avg 26 points, 5 assists and 5 rebounds. He was a 3 star recruit (#18 ranked player in NC senior class) and future NCAA DI basketball player.

What’s the local public in Davidson? I’m sure they would’ve loved to have him. How far is Davidson from CC campus? 30-35 miles?

There’s nothing dirty about it. It’s clean. It’s 100% within the established rules. It’s even a feel good story — son playing for his famous coaching dad’s alma mater.

But that’s a nice, nice competitive advantage for Charlotte Catholic.
 
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Hog_1982

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Remember when Tommy Knox coached at Independence HS and all players that transferred to Ind HS. Teams were ranked in the top 25 national polls or that South Meck had to drop out out state playoff because they had an ineligible player at QB. Not even willing go into Northern Guilford story. What about those school's districts that allow open enrollment What religion is Brendan McKillop ?

Are you trying imply anything devious with Brendan McKillop HS career ?
 

Appvol

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