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Hypothetical 1A-6A 2018

ReidsvilleRam90

ReidsvilleRam90

Well-Known Member
Oct 13, 2002
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THIS IS NOT PERFECT!!

I attempted to place this years qualifying teams into a hypothetical 1A-6A scenario using current year adms. My first step was to eliminate seeds 13-16 in 2A and 3A. This again isnt the perfect way to get to 192 teams. But eliminating the last teams into those brackets was a good place to start. Here they are listed by conference finish. I tried my best to remember the split conference/below 500 stipulation for this year. Without the raw numbers on the maxpreps adjusted rankings, it would be impossible to achieve true seeding because of the commingling of teams under the current ranking.

AGAIN, NOT PERFECT.

1A
EAST

(1)Northampton County
(2)Pamlico County
Gates County
North Edgecombe
Rosewood
(3)Lakewood
Weldon
Riverside (W)
(wc)North Duplin
Hobbton
Bear Grass Charter
Southeast Halifax
South Creek
Southside
Northside Pinetown
Washington County

WEST

(1)Thomas Jefferson
Murphy
Mitchell
(2)Robbinsville
Alleghany
North Rowan
(3)East Wilkes
Mountain Island Charter
Bishop McGuinness
(wc)East Columbus
Community School of davidson
Cherryville
Albemarle
Elkin
Rosman
Cherokee

2A

EAST

(1)Edenton Holmes
Princeton
Tarboro
East Carteret
Northeastern
Kinston
Granville Central
Southwest Onslow
(2)Beddingfield
Wallace Rose Hill
East Bladen
(3)Manteo
Whiteville
James Kenan
(wc)Bertie
Louisburg

WEST

(1)South Columbus
Reidsville
North Stanley
Mt Airy
Starmount
Mountain Heritage
(2)West Stanley
Bessemer City
Polk County
East Surry
(3)Swain County
South Stanley
(wc)Hendersonville
Highland Tech
Thomasville
Eastern Randolph

3A

EAST

(1)Ledford
Randleman
South Granville
Clinton
SouthWest Edgecombe
Havelock
(2)Cummings
Wheatmore
Roanoke Rapids
West Craven
Croatan
Hertford County
(3)Currituck County
(wc)Bunn
East Wayne
East Duplin

WEST

(1)Pisgah
Shelby
Bandys
Ashe County
West Stokes
Mt Pleasant
(2)North Surry
Southpoint
Fred T Foard
Smoky Mountain
North Lincoln
(3)Brevard
East Rutherfordton
Salisbury
(wc)Tuscola
Maiden

4A

EAST

(1)Western Alamance
Southeast Guilford
Lee County
Southern Nash
Terry Sanford
(2)North Davidson
Southern Lee
Eastern Alamance
Eastern Guilford
Rocky Mount
Jacksonville
(3)South Johnston
(wc)Monroe
St Pauls
Franklinton
West Carteret

WEST

(1)AC Reynolds
Watauga
Huss
Hibriten
Charlotte Catholic
Northwest Cabarrus
(2)Erwin
Kings mountain
Freedom
Statesville
(3)Asheville
Alexander Central
Crest
(wc)Stuart Cramer
West Rowan
Jay M Robinson

5A

EAST

(1)New Hanover
South Central
DH Conley
Cardinal Gibbons
Northern Durham
Pineforest
Cleveland
Riverside (D)
(2)Topsail
JH Rose
South View
Hillside
Seventy-First
(3)Southern Alamance
(wc)Knightdale
Scotland County

WEST

(1)McDowell
South Iredell
Mt Tabor
East Forsyth
(2)Parkland
Weddington
West mecklenburg
Grimsley
(3)Sun Valley
Porter Ridge
Ragsdale
(wc)Cox Mill
RJ Reynolds
Central Cabarrus
Glenn
West Charlotte

6A

EAST

(1)Hoggard
Holly Springs
Wake Forest
(2)Clayton
Heritage
Jordan
Middle Creek
Leesville Road
(3)Rolesville
Garner
Enloe
Panther Creek
(wc)Wakefield
Fuquay Varina
Broughton
Jack Britt

WEST

(1)Mallard Creek
Butler
Richmond County
(2)Myers Park
West Forsyth
Zeb Vance
(3)Hough
Pinecrest
Providence
Reagan
(wc)Ardrey Kell
North Mecklenburg
Northwest Guilford
Lake Norman
Page
Mooresville
 
triadfan336 said:
I love your plan, however balanced conferences are the problem. Even with 4 classifications we have multiple split classification conferences (2A/1A and 2A/3A) adding another "A" just compounds the problem.
Click to expand...

Not my plan. TGT devised a plan years ago for geographic conferences where you use your current year adm to place you into the brackets. No more transition schools with 4a numbers winning 2A championships.

TGT also has an aversion to compass point school names. If had a nickel for every time I wrote or typed north while doing this.....
 
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ReidsvilleRam90 said:
Not my plan. TGT devised a plan years ago for geographic conferences where you use your current year adm to place you into the brackets. No more transition schools with 4a numbers winning 2A championships.

TGT also has an aversion to compass point school names. If had a nickel for every time I wrote or typed north while doing this.....
Click to expand...
 
Gotcha, great idea. It would prevent teams like North Davidson (1144 students) and Ledford (1 023) from playing down a classification.
 
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Shelltown2002 said:
Which mean less money so.... it will never happen
Click to expand...

I guarantee you if the coaches vote to drop subdividing the NCHSAA will gladly do so! GUARANTEED! So lets put the coaches to a vote! Think that is happening? Not a chance. If the next realignment is five classes they still want to subdivide. Do not believe it, have them vote on it! The coaches voted it in, first the 1A due to the percentage difference is school sizes. Then 2A through 4A the next year.

When the five classification option was proposed at the region realignment meetings four years ago one of, if not, the first question asked atcallbeight neetings was would there still be subdividing in football.
 
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Four classifications work well for all sports but football except for 1A.

Football needs to align separately from the other sports or redo the playoffs where teams qualify for the playoffs with an equal percentage of teams from each class. 192 teams total. Place them in six divisions by their current enrollment with no relation to their current classification. North Davidson would play equal sized schools. D1 is the largest 32. D6 the smallest 32. Five rounds of playoffs. Six champions.

In non football sub divide 1A playoffs only based on traditional school and non traditional schools. First thing that must happen is determine what a “traditional” school is. I say it is a school that does not allow students that live outside the district boundary to play sports unless their parent works at the school or they completed first semester of junior year before moving out of the district. Magnets and charters would be non traditional for all non football playoffs.
 
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The football only realignment was presented four years ago with the current alignment proposals. Schools did not like it. “Too confusing.” “Loss of rivalries.”
 
Football is not the problem when talking about charter schools. These problems are for sports particularly the basketball, volleyball and Individual sports.

As far as classification being 6 classes. I believe it would benefit the NCHSAA to look into this scenario. I know money has been the issue that most bring up for discussion, but if you really think about how much each school brings to the table financially with gate tickets especially in early round games then you can make a valid point on moving to 6. You take each of the subdivided 1st and even second round games. Most teams in 1A and 2A are traveling distances where the host schools are losing money and the NCHSAA is not getting enough off the gate. Now I don’t know what the percentage breakdown is for those scenarios but it would seem that if you beef up your 1st and 2nd round games then you would draw bigger crowds and bring in more money. Something the NCHSAA should think about if 6 classifications thing would come up.
 
Here's the TGT plan, originally posted about 10 years ago, and amended with the new numbers a couple of times. I think I last posted this a month ago:

Currently NCHSAA divides its 417 member schools into 66 conferences and then sends 224 of its approximately 375 football schools into the playoffs in eight divisions.

Some NC Preps posters say 8 divisions is great, others say go back to the old 4-class system.

Here’s my compromise 6-class playoff plan:

1. Cut the number of qualifiers by 64 by having six classes, still with 5 rounds of playoffs. They are called 6-A, 5-A, 4-A, 3-A, 2-A and 1-A. By doing this, 192 teams (instead of 224) make the post-season. This would certainly eliminate a lot of the teams with 4-7 and 3-8 records from making the field but a team with a losing overall record could still make it with a top-3 conference finish. Schools playing a tough non-conference schedule wouldn’t be penalized … they would still make the playoffs based on a top-3 conference finish. It would also end forever the calls for the “2-A vs. 2-AA one-extra game to decide the overall 2-A champ.”

2. To pick the 192 for the playoffs, you divide the state into 60 six-team or seven-team conferences (six less than now). As more schools come into existence, they are placed into conferences by geography. The top three teams from each conference earn playoff berths, making for 180 teams. Twelve more at-large or wild card teams are also picked to complete the 192-team playoff pool, using the best overall records among all fourth-place teams. After the 192 teams are identified, rank them by the current ADM order and divide by six. Just as it is now, all the number one conference teams are given seeding priority, followed by No. 2 teams, No.3 teams and No. 4 teams. Conference teams that finish fifth can’t advance.

3. All conferences are in theory “split” conferences with no class designation made. It's the North State Conference, not the North State 2-A Conference.

Geography is the No. 1 consideration for grouping teams for conference play (but not the only consideration – teams must be reasonably close in size, for example, you wouldn’t put W-S Carver with 582 ADM in a conference with East Forsyth with with 1,784 even though they are 4 miles apart. I doubt there would be many instances where a wide variance was needed). Reidsville, with 708, could be in a conference with Rockingham County, with 1123. Maybe set the difference limit at 500.

They play a conference schedule, a conference tournament, etc. Then, when the "current ADMs" are announced then, AND NOT UNTIL THEN, place schools in divisions for the post-season.

4. The NCHSAA is already uses this realignment-by-geography thinking anyway. There are NINE split conferences in the current alignment. It would be possible (but not likely) for a conference to send its members to as many as 4 of the 6 different divisions.

5. This geography-based conference realignment plan saves a bunch on travel costs and maintains (or re-establishes) natural rivalries. It would be the last re-alignment ever needed although yearly adjustments would have to be made as new schools join the association (or schools are consolidated as in Montgomery County). And by doing the pairings based on current ADMs, big fluctuations in ADMs would be taken care of for the that post season.

6. Also suggested, but not really part of the playoff plan:
-- Teams who have met earlier in the season don’t play in the first round.
-- Cut the regular season back to 10 games and begin the playoffs one week earlier.
 
triadfan336 said:
I love your plan, however balanced conferences are the problem. Even with 4 classifications we have multiple split classification conferences (2A/1A and 2A/3A) adding another "A" just compounds the problem.
Click to expand...

Personally, I hate split conferences.
 
triadfan336 said:
True, but in other sports, like tennis, swimming, golf, basketball they have an unfair advantage.
Click to expand...

Did you read my post about 1A?

It is not only charters there an issue.

In non football sub divide 1A playoffs only based on traditional school and non traditional schools. First thing that must happen is determine what a “traditional” school is. I say it is a school that does not allow students that live outside the district boundary to play sports unless their parent works at the school or they completed first semester of junior year before moving out of the district. Magnets and charters would be non traditional for all non football playoffs.
 
ReidsvilleRam90 said:
THIS IS NOT PERFECT!!

I attempted to place this years qualifying teams into a hypothetical 1A-6A scenario using current year adms. My first step was to eliminate seeds 13-16 in 2A and 3A. This again isnt the perfect way to get to 192 teams. But eliminating the last teams into those brackets was a good place to start. Here they are listed by conference finish. I tried my best to remember the split conference/below 500 stipulation for this year. Without the raw numbers on the maxpreps adjusted rankings, it would be impossible to achieve true seeding because of the commingling of teams under the current ranking.

AGAIN, NOT PERFECT.

1A
EAST

(1)Northampton County
(2)Pamlico County
Gates County
North Edgecombe
Rosewood
(3)Lakewood
Weldon
Riverside (W)
(wc)North Duplin
Hobbton
Bear Grass Charter
Southeast Halifax
South Creek
Southside
Northside Pinetown
Washington County

WEST

(1)Thomas Jefferson
Murphy
Mitchell
(2)Robbinsville
Alleghany
North Rowan
(3)East Wilkes
Mountain Island Charter
Bishop McGuinness
(wc)East Columbus
Community School of davidson
Cherryville
Albemarle
Elkin
Rosman
Cherokee

2A

EAST

(1)Edenton Holmes
Princeton
Tarboro
East Carteret
Northeastern
Kinston
Granville Central
Southwest Onslow
(2)Beddingfield
Wallace Rose Hill
East Bladen
(3)Manteo
Whiteville
James Kenan
(wc)Bertie
Louisburg

WEST

(1)South Columbus
Reidsville
North Stanley
Mt Airy
Starmount
Mountain Heritage
(2)West Stanley
Bessemer City
Polk County
East Surry
(3)Swain County
South Stanley
(wc)Hendersonville
Highland Tech
Thomasville
Eastern Randolph

3A

EAST

(1)Ledford
Randleman
South Granville
Clinton
SouthWest Edgecombe
Havelock
(2)Cummings
Wheatmore
Roanoke Rapids
West Craven
Croatan
Hertford County
(3)Currituck County
(wc)Bunn
East Wayne
East Duplin

WEST

(1)Pisgah
Shelby
Bandys
Ashe County
West Stokes
Mt Pleasant
(2)North Surry
Southpoint
Fred T Foard
Smoky Mountain
North Lincoln
(3)Brevard
East Rutherfordton
Salisbury
(wc)Tuscola
Maiden

4A

EAST

(1)Western Alamance
Southeast Guilford
Lee County
Southern Nash
Terry Sanford
(2)North Davidson
Southern Lee
Eastern Alamance
Eastern Guilford
Rocky Mount
Jacksonville
(3)South Johnston
(wc)Monroe
St Pauls
Franklinton
West Carteret

WEST

(1)AC Reynolds
Watauga
Huss
Hibriten
Charlotte Catholic
Northwest Cabarrus
(2)Erwin
Kings mountain
Freedom
Statesville
(3)Asheville
Alexander Central
Crest
(wc)Stuart Cramer
West Rowan
Jay M Robinson

5A

EAST

(1)New Hanover
South Central
DH Conley
Cardinal Gibbons
Northern Durham
Pineforest
Cleveland
Riverside (D)
(2)Topsail
JH Rose
South View
Hillside
Seventy-First
(3)Southern Alamance
(wc)Knightdale
Scotland County

WEST

(1)McDowell
South Iredell
Mt Tabor
East Forsyth
(2)Parkland
Weddington
West mecklenburg
Grimsley
(3)Sun Valley
Porter Ridge
Ragsdale
(wc)Cox Mill
RJ Reynolds
Central Cabarrus
Glenn
West Charlotte

6A

EAST

(1)Hoggard
Holly Springs
Wake Forest
(2)Clayton
Heritage
Jordan
Middle Creek
Leesville Road
(3)Rolesville
Garner
Enloe
Panther Creek
(wc)Wakefield
Fuquay Varina
Broughton
Jack Britt

WEST

(1)Mallard Creek
Butler
Richmond County
(2)Myers Park
West Forsyth
Zeb Vance
(3)Hough
Pinecrest
Providence
Reagan
(wc)Ardrey Kell
North Mecklenburg
Northwest Guilford
Lake Norman
Page
Mooresville
Click to expand...
Love it. Wish it would happen.
 
And the NCHSAA uses MaxPreps adjusted rankings when they have Simmons ready to sort it all out.
This is similar to my plan but all my conferences are based on geography and the there are no pre-determined divisions. My six-division playoffs are based on the ADMs of the current year because four-year realignments are skewed after a year or two.
 
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I like your six-class model. The biggest flaw I see is what conference Northwood is placed. Northwood is MUCH closer to Chapel Hill and Durham than Fayetteville.
 
Last edited:
Keep it simple. 1A - 4A. Figure out the number of teams per classification and the way to place non football playing schools.

192 teams qualify for the playoffs. Each classification will have the same percentage of teams in the playoffs. If the four classes have the same number of teams 48 teams will qualify from each classification.

Team sports will be subdivided to six divisions. List schools 1-192. Largest 32 are D1. Smallest 32 are D6.

Six state champions for team sports. Individual sports will not subdivide. (Personally I think individual sports should be open classification.)

If a school is 2A but has 4A numbers they will play with schools that fit into the same enrollment category. The classification has no bearing on the division they are placed in for the playoffs.
 
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btango said:
Keep it simple. 1A - 4A. Figure out the number of teams per classification and the way to place non football playing schools.

192 teams qualify for the playoffs. Each classification will have the same percentage of teams in the playoffs. If the four classes have the same number of teams 48 teams will qualify from each classification.

Team sports will be subdivided to six divisions. List schools 1-192. Largest 32 are D1. Smallest 32 are D6.

Six state champions for team sports. Individual sports will not subdivide. (Personally I think individual sports should be open classification.)

If a school is 2A but has 4A numbers they will play with schools that fit into the same enrollment category. The classification has no bearing on the division they are placed in for the playoffs.
Click to expand...
What's your meaning of open classification?
 
PrepFanNC said:
I’m thinking he means something like wrestling used to do up until the late 1980’s. One state champ per weight class, regardless of classification.
Click to expand...
Also golf, swimming, track & field, tennis ... any individual sport. For example, what difference does a school size have to do with a 103-pound wrestler competing for a state title? NCHSAA conducts team championships in a few sports like wrestling while also doing individual championships in the same sport, which could be open.
 
Just my thoughts and I am sure many would disagree. Couple of examples:

Track & Field state championship would have individual events ran open classification. Relays would run by classification.

Wrestling team duals by class. Individual open.
 
You could have dual playoffs in all these individual/team sports by class and individual by event open. I guess track & field and swimming, with the relays, would be an exception.
 
I can’t totally disagree with the idea of one title for individual sports/events....

From a wrestling standpoint, it could be argued that the smaller schools are at a disadvantage by most likely having fewer quality practice partners in their room. If you look at most wrestling teams, they tend to have stronger wrestlers in a “pack” located somewhere within the 14 weight classes. Iron sharpens Iron.

If you have 20 wrestlers in a room, chances are you don’t have access to the quality practice partners that a 4A team that has 75 wrestlers in their room.

There are exceptions, of course. But wrestling always ends up being unique. I’m going to assume that the other sports you mentioned don’t have this same problem, due to the difference in each sport.
 
I'm thinking that many of the top wrestlers are pretty much year-round participants with competitions outside of school.
 
Top wrestlers, yes. But as I’m noticing down here in the 2A ranks, the better overall athletic programs are successful in encouraging their athletes to participate in more than one sport.

We could debate the class system all day, but we all know the individual sports won’t change.... I would be very much against weakening them by sub-dividing them.
 
My oldest daughter was a competitive year round swimmer and swam at the high school and college level.....Swimming is a total individual sport (coaching and quality workouts are the key).......size of school plays no part in an individuals success in that sport................20 plus years ago the swimming titles at the high school level...had a 4A championship with the other 3 classes (1A,2A,3A) lumped together....don't think it's that way anymore....certainly leads to a watered down version if you have 4 different championships in that particular sport.......................
 
The top golfers - no matter what high school size - compete against each other in Carolinas Golf Association events year round. Depth is where the larger schools have the team advantage. They could have team playoffs in golf very easily and the individuals could compete in regionals and states as one unified tournament.
 
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rambbq said:
My oldest daughter was a competitive year round swimmer and swam at the high school and college level.....Swimming is a total individual sport (coaching and quality workouts are the key).......size of school plays no part in an individuals success in that sport................20 plus years ago the swimming titles at the high school level...had a 4A championship with the other 3 classes (1A,2A,3A) lumped together....don't think it's that way anymore....certainly leads to a watered down version if you have 4 different championships in that particular sport.......................
Click to expand...

I think swimming is 3 classes right now. 4A, 3A and combined 1A/2A.

The charters are dominating sports like this, especially the ones from the large metro area.
Just hard to compete as a smaller school when 5 or 6 talented kids can choose to pile into a tiny charter and run rampant in golf, tennis, cross country, volleyball and others
 
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