American Legion Baseball HS dead period, how it affects Legion baseball

Discussion in 'Open Sports Discussion & Resources Forum' started by Sportsnut17, Apr 15, 2017.

  1. Sportsnut17

    Sportsnut17 Moderator
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  2. Skools

    Skools Well-Known Member
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    Sportsnut17 Can you please explain this rule and do you have a link to this rule on the NC Hs Association website.
     
  3. Hon Dines

    Hon Dines Well-Known Member
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  4. Skools

    Skools Well-Known Member
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    This seems to let them coach

    • Through a separate, non-NCHSAA member school entity, Coach is involved with a summer baseball league where students (1) are not required to attend or participate; (2) provide or pay for their own transportation and participation fees; and (3) use their own equipment or pay fair market value to rent school-owned or controlled equipment when the general public would also be allowed to rent the same equipment on the same terms.
     
  5. Sportsnut17

    Sportsnut17 Moderator
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    Trust me there is more, what the Asheville coach says is 100% right. I'm guessing no one is speaking of it now, waiting on a possible change. If it stands dead period will start early May.
     
  6. Skools

    Skools Well-Known Member
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    I sent a email to the NC HS League to see what they say. Once they reply I will post what they say. That is if they respond!
     
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  7. Skools

    Skools Well-Known Member
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    I was told today from the NC HS league you can not coach a player from your high school team from these dates

    May 8th-End of the academic school year
    July 3rd-July 9th
    July 17th-July 23

    I asked for clarification of what the end of the academic school year meant. Graduation, last day of semester Ect

    I took Charlotte academic calendar for for example below

    You would not be allowed to coach until June 6th Then you wouldn't you wouldn't allowed to coach on the playoffs!

    July 3rd- July 9
    July 17- July 23
     
  8. Sportsnut17

    Sportsnut17 Moderator
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    That's exactly what I knew, so most legion games start around 5/15. Our local system goes till 6/9. Season ends around 6/30. By 6/9, probably into around 10-12 games. Who's going to coach?

    How many teams junior and senior does this affect? I will answer, a lot.

    That is why the coach left Asheville.
     
  9. Skools

    Skools Well-Known Member
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    Sorry Sportsnut17 I was just sending what they told me today.

    My big thing is playoffs. If you can't coach for the playoffs you should not coach at all. What are you going to do miss the first 1/3 to 1/2 of your season.....then coach the other 2/3 or 1/2 then give your team up once playoffs comes?

    I feel like a lot of coaches are not aware of this rule. Has the state baseball commander sent out a email to all AD's about this?

    If not I suggest someone sends him a email ASAP. Don't want coaches thinking they can coach and then can't find a coach to replace him!
     
  10. Eagles/Trojans13

    Eagles/Trojans13 Well-Known Member
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    Last year we ran into the same issue, but it was a dead period on the last 5 school days. We played 2 or 3 games that week and I sat out so my players could play and that was the only time it really effected us as a legion program. If the above is true, there will be a lot of programs that will be searching for coaches because most of us would not be able to coach for over 1/2 of the season which is not fair to the kids.
     
  11. Skools

    Skools Well-Known Member
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    This is what I received this morning from the NC HS office

    During the summer the following is permissible for coaches’ involvement during the dead period:

    1. Team camps/clinics sponsored or conducted by an outside entity such as a college or university;
    2. Non-school sponsored summer teams, such as American Legion Baseball, ASA Softball teams.

    The last day of school is school specific.


    I reasked if a coaches high school players can be on his team and the Baseball comminsor said Yes! As long as the school doesn't sponsor it. Meaning doesn't pay for the whole thing
     
  12. Eagles/Trojans13

    Eagles/Trojans13 Well-Known Member
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    So that means that we are only technically dead that last 5 days of the school year and normal dead periods during the summer which is 4th of July week and Coaches Clinic week, if I'm reading that correctly.
     
  13. Sportsnut17

    Sportsnut17 Moderator
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    Conflicting stories, better check with your HS AD.
     
  14. Skools

    Skools Well-Known Member
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    Like sportsnut said you better check with your Ads
     
  15. Eagles/Trojans13

    Eagles/Trojans13 Well-Known Member
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    That's who I checked with last year...Let you guys know something once I speak with him again.
     
  16. Sportsnut17

    Sportsnut17 Moderator
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    That was last year, think some things have changed. I keep hoping what I have read is wrong, but I don't think so.
     
  17. 20-20Hindsight

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    Any idea of whether this rule will also be adopted by the NCISAA as well?
     
  18. Sportsnut17

    Sportsnut17 Moderator
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    Do you have dead periods where nothing can happen sports related?
     
  19. 20-20Hindsight

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    I don't know that they do.
     
  20. thekidd12

    thekidd12 Well-Known Member
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    They kind of do? :

    http://www.ncisaa.org/sports-specific/?id=1&section=64

    Here is part of specifics for those that do not want to use link:

    In-Season Practice:
    In season practice, with a school coach present - in any sport - is prohibited outside the sport seasons designated in the following table. (Summers are exempt.)

    Spring Season Begins on the third Monday in February (February 20, 2017) Ends on the third Saturday in May. (May 20, 2017)

    Notice Summers are exempt.
     
  21. Eagles/Trojans13

    Eagles/Trojans13 Well-Known Member
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    May 8-end of school is a dead period for all sports except spring sports until they are done, then spring sports are dead. The 2 dead periods during the summer, legion baseball coaches are ok to coach during those periods because Legion Baseball has their own entity. Still waiting to hear back 100% on the May 8-end of school dead period.
     
  22. Sportsnut17

    Sportsnut17 Moderator
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    Exactly what I have been reading and asked by other coaches as to "what are y'all going to do". I do not think a junior or senior team in Forsyth that does not have a HS coach involved.
     
  23. Eagles/Trojans13

    Eagles/Trojans13 Well-Known Member
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    May 8 to end of school year is a dead period for all coaches that aren't still in season. Basically if any legion coach coaches high school they cannot coach their legion team (if it has some of their players on it) until the 3rd week of June (most schools are done June 9)
     
  24. Sportsnut17

    Sportsnut17 Moderator
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    Now that is established, wonder what the next plan is? That is about 2/3 of the season. Probably very few legion teams, especially juniors that are not affected by this.
     
  25. Skools

    Skools Well-Known Member
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    Someone needs the NC American Legion Baseball Director to contact the NC High School Association and get a official ruling and have it sent out to all legion coaches/ADS. I reached out to the NC High School association head of baseball again and he told me the same thing I posted above.


    During the summer the following is permissible for coaches’ involvement during the dead period:

    1. Team camps/clinics sponsored or conducted by an outside entity such as a college or university;
    2. Non-school sponsored summer teams, such as American Legion Baseball, ASA Softball teams.

    I am just reporting from what he told me and have it in writing and talked to him on the phone.

    The NC high school association can not regulate what other organization do:

    Example: Coach Joe Smith is a assistant varsity coach at Johnny Appleseed High School. Joe Smith has no intention of going back to coach at Johnny Appleseed High School but coached during the spring. What is the High School and NC HS Sports going to do about it? Joe Smith coached during the spring but informed us he is not coming back. Technically that would violate the rule if coaches were not allowed to coach legion.

    My understanding of the dead period rule to the end of the school year is the High School Baseball Championship is not done till June 2nd. So from my understanding the reason they have this is because technically your still in season till the championship game is played. They don't want coaches holding practice or doing individual workouts while they are technically still in season once their season is done before June 2nd. Coaches would do that!
     
  26. Sportsnut17

    Sportsnut17 Moderator
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    Skools,

    There is a NCHSAA dead period beginning May 8 ending last day of school, now that varies from system to system. In this particular area it is June 9. The rule is in black and white in their handbook. It has nothing to do with HS baseball season. The dead period is exempt for in season sports, but exemption ends the moment the season ends. The fines and penalties for violations of this rule will go to all schools involved. It does not matter that a coach has given intentions of not returning. I know why this dead period was put in place,but not starting a political sports war.

    I emailed Area III commissioners yesterday, Junior and Senior. Based off response they are not aware of this situation. They did acknowledge the potential problem and said they would pass along to state director.

    If Post 36 is still lurking around, feel free to chime in or disagree. The Kidd or anyone else, if they are reading this differently chime in.
     
  27. Sportsnut17

    Sportsnut17 Moderator
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  28. Eagles/Trojans13

    Eagles/Trojans13 Well-Known Member
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    He's aware of the situation...he might put his reply on here or might not, but he's well aware of the situation.
     
  29. Skools

    Skools Well-Known Member
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    I'm not trying to argue I am just saying i talked to the NC high school sports association. Brad Alford is the baseball guy and told me it was ok that a high school coach can coach legion when ever they want. When its in the dead period or not!

    http://nchsaa.org/staff-directory/brad-alford

    Call him up yourself and he will tell you its ok!
     
  30. Eagles/Trojans13

    Eagles/Trojans13 Well-Known Member
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    Called Brad as well...May 8 to end of school year is dead period. You can coach legion if you aren't coaching your own players. Unfortunately for most coaches in our area, we will coach some of our players so we will not be allowed to coach. I will not make my players sit out so I can coach, so I'll sit back and have to watch until it's legal for me to coach them again.
     
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  31. olrebel

    olrebel Well-Known Member
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    What are they going to do? Fire you? This is another example of the stupidity that is the NCHSAA.
     
  32. Eagles/Trojans13

    Eagles/Trojans13 Well-Known Member
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    Won't fire you, but they can fine you and that's not something any coach wants to put their AD or principal in either.
     
  33. Post 36

    Post 36 Well-Known Member
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    Hey guys! Last I heard this site no longer had a Legion Forum.

    I've had an email to a NCHSAA Board member since last Wednesday, but no response yet. I'm willing to fight this as hard as possible. I got tired of relying on others to provide information so I called the NCHSAA myself. Here is what I've found out and my thoughts.

    I was told by a NCHSAA representative that the dead period rule is setup for kids to have the option to play other sports because their high school coach can dictate what they do, thus removing the players choice to play other sports. Really thought we have a situation in America that allows for freedom of choice on time outside of school to make decisions instead of an arbitrary rule penalizing everyone for the poor choices of select number of control freak coaches. A more realistic reason seems that it is a rule to govern confrontation between high school coaches on the same campus (example football & baseball) that should be managed by school leadership instead of blanket regulation that only reduces, instead of removing childish squabbles anyway. That last sentence is speculation so let’s move on with more realistic aspects. Ultimately, summer programs are handicapped from some of the best coaches being available, and freedom is restricted in the name of protecting a high school student from their coach. Maybe I missed the criteria for hiring a coach somewhere along the way, but that should require the person to be stable and not controlling while having the school and players best interest in mind? If this is the level of confidence in high school coaches, then it is simply shameful.

    Some coaches have stopped coaching in high school in order to avoid dead periods and coach travel teams instead for more money than the school system currently pays coaches. Does the NCHSAA want to compete with higher budget travel programs of soccer, softball, basketball, and baseball by restricting coaches summer ability to earn income? Doubt any NC school system has increases budgeted for break even or non-profitable high school sports.

    Totally different angle, these policies sound like grounds for a discrimination lawsuit that restricts high school coaches from having summer income to coach, and kids to be restricted from free or cheap options to play baseball. Most high school baseball coaches either coach Legion or travel ball. Travel ball is extremely expensive and Legion is cheap or free. These are only examples, I’m sure there are many more possibilities. Coaches in a school systems that graduate early have an advantage for summer employment as opposed to systems that graduate later. Sound like a legitimate EEOC claim?

    Last question, how can rules that govern the state of North Carolina's school system not be approved by the NC State Board of Education?
     
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  34. Sportsnut17

    Sportsnut17 Moderator
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    Post 36, you know if I can help in anyway just call me. We do have a Post member that is up the ladder in Legion command. If you think it will help I will get him involved and we will go to battle. You know that hierarchy better than me.
     
  35. CP16

    CP16 Well-Known Member
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    See this in BB also. During the July dead periods, one big city non-boundary HS coach, coaches many of his players playing for a AAU team named after the city.
     
  36. BASEBALLFAN1955

    BASEBALLFAN1955 Well-Known Member
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    a high school senior want be playing high school ball after this year. therefore the nchsaa cant do anything . if you play legion ball this year for your high school coach, you dont have any eligibility to lose next year at the high school level .
     
    36 BASEBALLFAN1955, May 1, 2017
    Last edited: May 3, 2017
  37. Skools

    Skools Well-Known Member
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    I agree but most senior teams have juniors on that team.
     
  38. olrebel

    olrebel Well-Known Member
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    That's the thing, in Area 4, at least the East division, there are very few non-seniors that participate. I can see this affecting some of the teams that are not as close to the Metro areas, where legion is the best summer option.
     
  39. BASEBALLFAN1955

    BASEBALLFAN1955 Well-Known Member
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    can a legion team hire a high school coach that coaches high school team out of his legions teams drawing area? Stanly county could hire a coach from cabarrus county, or concond post 51 a coach from nw or al brown, , kannapolis post could hire central ,mt pleasant, concord,or robinson high school coach, In other words , could teams trade coaches?
     
  40. BASEBALLFAN1955

    BASEBALLFAN1955 Well-Known Member
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    legion ball needs to start the first week in March , players would have the option of playing legion during the high season so they could play legion ball after the high school season ends .
     

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