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High school free agency

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Greengold_4ever

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Jan 14, 2017
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Figured since the topic was continuing and really didn’t have anything to do with Scotland QB start it’s on thread. As said earlier, i do not have a problem with a family relocating to better their life. Bettering your lot in life usually means a better job, better neighborhood, shorter commute or better education to name a few. My problem is the way we are treating high school off season like a free agency period. I brought up Crouch as an example, his coach leaves so automatically we assume he has to leave too. Why? He is already #1 where he is at.

In an earlier post i stated that if you are talented enough and fit what a college needs they will find you. Some said I was mistaken or didn’t know what i was talking about or that the statement was a myth. I guess I am in good company in not having a clue because :

Texas coach Tom Herman, speaking at a Texas High School Coaches Association Convention, said he would discourage recruits from transferrring to IMG.

“It doesn’t matter whether you go to IMG or you go to Cartage High School,” Herman said, according to the HoustonChronicle. “We’re going to find you. I believe high school football is more than just getting recruited. It’s more than X’s and O’s. It’s about community, especially in this state. That community starts to get torn apart a little bit because people want to come in and recruit other players. I’ve got a problem with that.”

I do understand how moving can enhance performance through better coaching, better competition, etc. But I think you have to move is a myth and danger to high school sports. Want proof of the danger check out the 1a basketball championships. In the end as a wise poster stated, doesn’t really matter what you and I think or say.
 
Green_Gold you're to late. It's not going to stop. Tom Herman is either confused or know's little about IMG. IMG is not High School Football. It's an elite program, set up for the best players in the nation. The football players train in a state of the art facility and travel every weekend via airplane to play elite programs and private schools across the US. It gives elite players an early experience of how it will be once they move on to college. Georgia high schools have been forbidden to play IMG. They're not going there to get recruited. 85% already have huge offers before they arrive. Unless you're playing in Shelby, Richmond, Scotland, New Bern...we're your pretty much the only show in town. It's a hard sell, trying to convince parents & kids on community. Also no kid at Cartage High School is playing for IMG anyway. So they should stay put.

What Coach Herman did not say during his speech. It would be a much easier for me to recruit you, if you didn't attend IMG. If i recruit you while attending IMG, I will have to wait my turn in line with numerous power 5 programs.
 
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Herman is a head coach at a big time college who says “it doesn’t matter where you go we will find you”. He gets paid millions of dollars to find and coach the players to win in his program just like others. If they don’t find them they get fired. You and I both know he wouldn’t turn down a recruit from IMG if the player fit his needs. But he is saying you don’t have to move to get found.

Let’s take it in another direction. Why should Crouch and the other top, say 50, recruits of 2018 even play? If they are doing what is best for them why risk injury? They should work hard in weight room, take online classes instead of practicing and enroll in college early. Wouldn’t that be doing what is best for them? Pull a Christian McCafferty
 
Greengold_4ever said:
Herman is a head coach at a big time college who says “it doesn’t matter where you go we will find you”. He gets paid millions of dollars to find and coach the players to win in his program just like others. If they don’t find them they get fired. You and I both know he wouldn’t turn down a recruit from IMG if the player fit his needs. But he is saying you don’t have to move to get found.

Let’s take it in another direction. Why should Crouch and the other top, say 50, recruits of 2018 even play? If they are doing what is best for them why risk injury? They should work hard in weight room, take online classes instead of practicing and enroll in college early. Wouldn’t that be doing what is best for them? Pull a Christian McCafferty
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Every family's situation is different. I have no clue, where or what Crouch is doing. Not my call. If he moved, i could only give my opinion. I agree there are players moving for the wrong reasons. There are also kids moving for good reasons. There are 27 kids out of the 2019 class for IMG that will play power 5 football. They're not there for better recruitment. That's not what they do. If Coach is saying that they will find you. That's just not true. That High School coach has to be marketing that player. It's a fact, they all don't do it. There are numerous programs, that fall short when it comes to getting their kids exposure. Those kids go unnoticed.
 
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Some programs have the ability to recruit only four and five stars. Not that tough to find them. I think it is harder for the two stars that should be higher to get that bigger school to look at him.

Herman got on the wrong side of the Texas high school coaches when he first went to Austin. He is doing everything he can to correct that now which includes supporting everything about Texas high school football.
 
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nepsy7 said:
If Coach is saying that they will find you. That's just not true. That High School coach has to be marketing that player. It's a fact, they all don't do it. There are numerous programs, that fall short when it comes to getting their kids exposure. Those kids go unnoticed.
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Utah signs Australian TE who has never played American football ...

Faalele was discovered at a Melbourne-area gym by a University of Hawaii recruiter in 2015.

Jim Harbaugh's One-Day Australian Camp


16 kids were signed FBS out of Canada for schools ranging from Penn St. to Hawaii. 6 from Canada signed FCS. Michigan has a DE from Germany. So you really believe that there are 3,4 and 5 star kids out there that dont have the ability to move to a high profile team that nobody knows about?
 
But i do agree with you Nepsy that there are plenty of high school coaches who do a poor job of promoting their kids. And we both know talent does not always = good student or good kid. There are a lot of factors that go into the recruiting of high school kids. The responsibility or success doesn't fall squarely on one set of shoulders. The athletes, coaches, families, scouts and recruiters all play a role. I just dont want some parent to feel like they are blowing their sons chance because they cant afford to enroll him at an elite program. That really is the whole point for my statements.
 
PARENTAL CHOICE - END OF STORY! SEND YOUR CHILD TO THE SCHOOL YOU WANT THEM TO ATTEND FOR WHATEVER REASON(S)! ACADEMICS, ATHLETICS, REPUTATION, SAFER LOCATION AND THE LIST GOES ON!
 
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THEN WHY HAVE DISTRICTS AND ZONING? THINK THE PEOPLE AT GARINGER OR MARLBORO WANT THEIR CHILDREN GOING TO THOSE SCHOOLS?
 
Point taken. Then what about those parents who don't have the means to move their child? Are they failing their kids? Are they to be blamed for their athletic child not getting a look?
 
Greengold_4ever said:
Point taken. Then what about those parents who don't have the means to move their child? Are they failing their kids? Are they to be blamed for their athletic child not getting a look?
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No one said life was fair buddy. I have seen parents with very poor means get their kids into better situations. This a parental choice issue you can have all the districts you want if a parent wants to move their kids they have every right to do so as long as it falls within the rules. Sorry folks should worry about their own kids not others.
 
So coaches shouldn't try to help kids get scholarships they should just worry about their own kids. Right?

The question is not whether a family legitimately moves. They question is why should they be made to feel like they have to move? I dare any of you to show me a quote of a college coach that says they only recruit the high profile programs in the nation. I have backed up my opinion with quotes and signees, you know facts. Most of the arguments back have been opinions
 
Greengold_4ever said:
So coaches shouldn't try to help kids get scholarships they should just worry about their own kids. Right?

The question is not whether a family legitimately moves. They question is why should they be made to feel like they have to move? I dare any of you to show me a quote of a college coach that says they only recruit the high profile programs in the nation. I have backed up my opinion with quotes and signees, you know facts. Most of the arguments back have been opinions
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THE BIGGEST COLLEGE RECRUITING MYTH

Perhaps the biggest myth about college recruiting is “If you are good enough, the college coaches will find you”. Certainly, if you’re Lebron James or Tom Brady, they’ll find you, but there are over 2,000,000 high school student-athletes (annually) seeking to extend their athletic careers and help cover all or part of their college education. The top national recruits in every sport easily attract the attention of college coaches, but the top national recruits make up less 2% of the total athletes who want to play sports in college. By my calculations, that leaves more than 98% of the high school athletic pool to fend for themselves. A left-handed pitcher with a 95 mph fastball or a 6’11” basketball player averaging 32 points a game will have his choice of colleges. The other 98% have no choice but to ‘get noticed’ on their own. If your high school, summer or skills coach is telling you, “don’t worry, they will find you,” you might need a different mentor.
 
The top seven college recruiting myths

Myth No. 7: If I’m good enough, the college coaches will find me
Fact: There are many high school athletes every year that could play in college, but believe that just because they haven’t been discovered, they aren’t good enough. College coaches have recruiting budgets, and except for Division I football and basketball, those budgets are limited. They can’t afford to travel the country looking for recruits. Therefore, if you wait around to get recruited, it may never happen, even if you are good enough. If you’re a junior or senior in high school and you are currently being “under-recruited”, you need to reach out to the colleges on your own. If you don’t, the chances of a college coach suddenly finding you is about as likely as finding a needle in a haystack.
 
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Green & Gold the above articles don't mean you can't be discovered unless you play for elite programs. It's just a fact. They don't find everyone. Even if Tom Herman head coach of Texas Long Horns says they will find you. He's just not telling the truth.
 
Fred Bastie's recruiting service playced, charges $79.95 for software and a one time consultaion with a recruiting advisor. But you could get the Advanced plan for $89.95 a month or step up for the Lifetime Plan for a mere $699.95. The dude is an accountant in Dallas!!!! not the most credible source for putting out what is a myth and what isn't.

This is EXACTLY what i am talking about high school kids and their families shouldn't be treated this way or mislead this way. Shame on USAToday for putting this out there.
 
Greengold_4ever said:
By: Fred Bastie, Playced.com | December 6, 2017

This is your source? The guy runs a recruiting service what else is he going to say?

"I dare any of you to show me a quote of a college coach that says they only recruit the high profile programs in the nation."

C'mon guys find me a coach, you know the guys that actually do the recruiting. Something like this:

College coach urges players not to transfer for recruiting benefit: 'We ...
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I talk to them weekly, if they could find everybody. They wouldn't be asking. I don't believe anyone has sad they only recruit in high programs in the nation? If a parent or guardian believe's it's going to benefit their kid moving. They're not staying put because the Head Coach of Texas told them so. It's a trend that is happening across the country and it's not stopping.
 
Greengold_4ever said:
Fred Bastie's recruiting service playced, charges $79.95 for software and a one time consultaion with a recruiting advisor. But you could get the Advanced plan for $89.95 a month or step up for the Lifetime Plan for a mere $699.95. The dude is an accountant in Dallas!!!! not the most credible source for putting out what is a myth and what isn't.

This is EXACTLY what i am talking about high school kids and their families shouldn't be treated this way or mislead this way. Shame on USAToday for putting this out there.
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I don't believe in recruiting agency's for everyone. I can show most parents how to do it themselves at no charge.. But if you believe every coach in High School is putting his kids name out there? There's just no convincing you of the facts. Every kid will not be found.
 
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As a parent of a D1 athlete and close 2 a bunch of parents in all divisions of college sports, most kids can play college sports on all levels. D1 is a different animal.....most kids isn' D1 material. Mr Hermann said that jus 2 make most parents happy. I've been 2 various prominent college camps n 7v7s....most of ur kids isn't that good....im jus being honest. There's a difference between playing a 6ft2 240lb player from Garinger than a 6ft6 300lb one from mallard creek with Georgia inboxing him on twitter...college recruiting isn't kind.
 
Nepsy we keep talking in circles about some of the same things, I guess its hard for us to articulate our points over messages rather than face to face. Again, I have no problem with people moving, just hope they are moving for the right reasons. Again, my problem is with the kind of thought that is being pushed on parents and kids with the article you brought up about myths of recruiting.

I commend you and 704 for helping other parents with the process. Because it is a process, like i said before with a lot of people sharing responsibility. And I agree there are plenty of coaches that don't do a good job of promoting their kids and shame on them. Coaching is about serving others not about ones self.

It is hard for me to change my mind when i see kids being found in Germany, Malaysia, Canada, Big Foot high school in Wisconsin and these are the big time D1 schools. God only knows where some of the 1aa and D2 are filling their rosters from.

There are always exceptions to every rule but everybody is looking for that diamond in the rough. College coaches have networks that extend beyond services and high school coaches. Alumni, former players, former assistants, etc. throw in social media and hudl and it is easier than ever to find kids. Khalil Mack comes to mind as a diamond in the rough kid had no ranking and some how Buffalo found a pro bowl LB.

I think a big think that at the heart of our difference of opinion is where we live. You see the services, the camps, the talent and the hot bed of recruiting that Meck is. I see it too but from a rural outsider looking in. I see the rural kids who make it without those opportunities. I have to hope and believe that they will find our kids and ones like them.
 
Greengold_4ever said:
Nepsy we keep talking in circles about some of the same things, I guess its hard for us to articulate our points over messages rather than face to face. Again, I have no problem with people moving, just hope they are moving for the right reasons. Again, my problem is with the kind of thought that is being pushed on parents and kids with the article you brought up about myths of recruiting.

I commend you and 704 for helping other parents with the process. Because it is a process, like i said before with a lot of people sharing responsibility. And I agree there are plenty of coaches that don't do a good job of promoting their kids and shame on them. Coaching is about serving others not about ones self.

It is hard for me to change my mind when i see kids being found in Germany, Malaysia, Canada, Big Foot high school in Wisconsin and these are the big time D1 schools. God only knows where some of the 1aa and D2 are filling their rosters from.

There are always exceptions to every rule but everybody is looking for that diamond in the rough. College coaches have networks that extend beyond services and high school coaches. Alumni, former players, former assistants, etc. throw in social media and hudl and it is easier than ever to find kids. Khalil Mack comes to mind as a diamond in the rough kid had no ranking and some how Buffalo found a pro bowl LB.

I think a big think that at the heart of our difference of opinion is where we live. You see the services, the camps, the talent and the hot bed of recruiting that Meck is. I see it too but from a rural outsider looking in. I see the rural kids who make it without those opportunities. I have to hope and believe that they will find our kids and ones like them.
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Your Coach is doing all the right things. Wish you guys much success.
 
One of my best friends was a long time college coach and also in the SEC and is now in the NFL and he said even with all the technology out there kids are overlooked for various reasons. If you can play and you are on a team like MC your chances are far greater than a kid playing at Lumberton High School. Coaches try to visit all the schools in their region to see what teams may have but you can bet your bottom dollar when they come to NC they are headed to Charlotte first/MC unless there is a stud like Zamir White in the area. Coaches go to programs that have produced talent before and have an abundance of kids. My friend told me how he rarely gave a rats ass about a kids star rating - he said that might get the kid on the radar but he wanted to see the kid on tape and live to make his own assessment. There have been a lot of 5 star duds!
 
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As said above, its about the parents putting their kids in a better situation. Go to a Westover football game and then go to a Scotland game....there would be no doubt where you wanted your child if football was your sport. I cant imagine there is anyone that wouldn't want their kid to have that type of environment to play in on Friday nights.

Also, better programs do help kids get recruited. The studs, the 4 and 5 star guys, they will find them regardless of where they are. The smaller profile kids, a good program can help. Going into this season, no Scotland Olineman had a single offer. Halfway through the season, more than one coach took a second look and made offers. The common theme was something like...we looked at your guys' tape over the summer and they were okay, but after seeing the rushing numbers you guys are putting up, we want to take a closer look at them. 4 of the 5 ended up with college offers, 2 with smaller D1schools.
 
JMACDE99 said:
One of my best friends was a long time college coach and also in the SEC and is now in the NFL and he said even with all the technology out there kids are overlooked for various reasons. If you can play and you are on a team like MC your chances are far greater than a kid playing at Lumberton High School. Coaches try to visit all the schools in their region to see what teams may have but you can bet your bottom dollar when they come to NC they are headed to Charlotte first/MC unless there is a stud like Zamir White in the area. Coaches go to programs that have produced talent before and have an abundance of kids. My friend told me how he rarely gave a rats ass about a kids star rating - he said that might get the kid on the radar but he wanted to see the kid on tape and live to make his own assessment. There have been a lot of 5 star duds!
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Have had some college coaches tell me kind of the same stuff. Even had a couple of coaches who said they thought the services were complete B.S. their words not mine. You bring up a kid playing at Lumberton vs. MC. Which program do i think prepares him for college better? Obviously MC, points brought up by Blue and Gold earlier, he is in a competitive environment every moment just like college. But as far as getting seen or recruited I don't think there is as much difference as people make. Todd Gurley vs. Keith Marshall, Marshall played in Raleigh with plenty of exposure Gurley didn't. Marshall was ranked #1 in state, Gurley #10(whoops espn somebody missed that one). While Marshall was highlighted on Football Friday, Gurley was playing for a school with 600 students in a town that has 10k. He got signed and found because he can play and he fills a need, obviously on any level.
 
Things college coaches have told me:
"we like your kid but we are loaded at that spot and have other needs".
"we like your kid but his scores concern us".
"we thought your kid was a little to stiff in the hips (substitute: slow, short, stiff) but i did call so and so at D2 and let him know about him".
"when i talked to the kid he didn't seem to excited about coming to play for us".
"we want your kid but we think he needs a year of prep school first."
"he just doesn't fit what we do (or are looking for)."
"we put on film to watch Johnny and #32 for the other team kept making plays. You know anything about him?"
"you know of any guys in your area we should be taking a look at?"
"my old teammate coaches at this school and he is looking for some kids that play that position let me give you his number."
"man i love how he plays just wish he was a little (taller, faster, flexible, physical) i don't think i can sell my head coach on him."
 
Think the point is being missed. If you are Keith MArshall, Todd Gurley or Zamir White they will find you largely because you are a freak athlete and a school like UGA has a 1.7 million dollar a year recruiting budget. They have the means to go anywhere in the nation and find kids.

The kid I am talking about runs a 4.6 instead of a 4.4 and is 5 11' and not 6'3. Now its a numbers game both for the kid and the school. Gardner Webb or Western Carolina have a small fraction of the money and time so they need to play the odds. They will go get the 2nd tier kid from a powerhouse HS because it saves time and money. In addition these schools have built credibility and relationships with coaching staffs. If they say a kid can play they move to the top of the list.

If the kid has done the work in the classroom, has solid film and gets a thumbs up from his HS coaches his chances of getting some type of education paid for at the next level go up DRAMATICALLY if he is playing ball at the right HS.

Sam Howell gets recognized wherever he plays. Kid like LJ Smith probably isn't playing ball at the next level if he isnt winning titles for MC. His measurables are average at best.
 
Well said Blue and Gold. And your right they are going to save time and money any way they can. With Meck they have no need to stop by Garinger, unless they have targeted a kid specifically, they can ask a better program are there any opponents kids they need to look at. There are 23 4a schools in Meck, i think, no way a school is going to visit all those schools. Rural areas are a little tougher, Bob Lewis when he was at Clinton would probably be visited whether he has a player a school wants or not because his reputation and relationship with coaches is going to carry a lot of weight. They didn't have to visit every 1a and 2a in Eastern NC because he could tell them where they needed to go.

My only question is which are the right schools and what defines them? At one time Indy was one of the right schools are they still?
 
nepsy7 said:
Green_Gold you're to late. It's not going to stop. Tom Herman is either confused or know's little about IMG.
Click to expand...
That damn Nepsy is a Balla.........Bud this crud is funny
giphy.gif
 
Greengold_4ever said:
Well said Blue and Gold. And your right they are going to save time and money any way they can. With Meck they have no need to stop by Garinger, unless they have targeted a kid specifically, they can ask a better program are there any opponents kids they need to look at. There are 23 4a schools in Meck, i think, no way a school is going to visit all those schools. Rural areas are a little tougher, Bob Lewis when he was at Clinton would probably be visited whether he has a player a school wants or not because his reputation and relationship with coaches is going to carry a lot of weight. They didn't have to visit every 1a and 2a in Eastern NC because he could tell them where they needed to go.

My only question is which are the right schools and what defines them? At one time Indy was one of the right schools are they still?
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From my own personal experience from many many moons ago SC would send players/kids had to pay to ECU and UNC all they time if they thought they had a shot. I got on the radar by attending camps and my high school coach was a big proponent of promoting the kids. Even kids that were not D1 he would be all up in ELON and schools like that trying to get kids into school. A lot of coaches don't feel like that is their job. I had one club coach tell me that a high school coach told him that if a kid is on a travel club I would prefer they not play for my high school team because all they are concerned about is playing in college? I sh## you not and I trust the source 100%. This was not football but I believe that same mentality is in some football coaches. Not the majority but some are truly looking at the worth of the kid as a hs player! I'm sure all of you have heard of the stories where letters come to kids and the coaches hold those letters for whatever reasons.
 
Me, me, me, me, me. The kids are being pushed into only worrying about me.

IMG? For what? Like said above, the kid who's there already has all the stars and offers he needs. Why in god's name would you deprive him of being a high school kid and enjoying a high school experience so he can go get some airplane rides? It's ridiculous.

The purpose of high school football, or high school athletics in general, is NOT to get you a college scholarship. That's gravy. Unfortunately, too many of you are clueless as to the role of high school athletics as part of a high school education and a high school experience.
 
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The mass majority kids that attend IMG are elite and want more than what their High School offers. What's wrong with that? It's not like any kid can attend.

 
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Every great player has a selfish side to them because they understand that sometimes they have to play at their very best or their team will not win. The coaches know that some players have to have the ball in their hands in order for them to have a chance to win. There is selfish and then their is SELFISH! Nothing wrong with kids aspiring to want more even if they are in high school. Again parent your own child. If you want your kid to be a certain way then mold them that way and no one should complain. You can be s selfish player and a great teammate - U think Brady, Jordan and even your local high school start doesn't have a selfish side to their game. You can be a great teammate and not be liked. Sometimes that gets confused.
 
Greengold_4ever said:
There are 23 4a schools in Meck, i think, no way a school is going to visit all those schools.
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19 4A schools in Meck. Catholic is 3A. Four (Big 4) privates that play at the state's highest level. A few other privates in the county. The neigboring counties, mainly Cabarrus and Union, churn out a lot of talent. Gaston and Iredell also have their share. York in SC is loaded.
 
newpride said:
Me, me, me, me, me. The kids are being pushed into only worrying about me.

IMG? For what? Like said above, the kid who's there already has all the stars and offers he needs. Why in god's name would you deprive him of being a high school kid and enjoying a high school experience so he can go get some airplane rides? It's ridiculous.

The purpose of high school football, or high school athletics in general, is NOT to get you a college scholarship. That's gravy. Unfortunately, too many of you are clueless as to the role of high school athletics as part of a high school education and a high school experience.
Click to expand...

The role of HS athletics differs for each kid and his family. It is the ultimate ME, ME,ME mindset to think your opinion or point of view is correct or more valued than someone elses.
 
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I think both views are correct in regards to selfishness. High school athletics and all extracurricular activity is for the betterment of every student who chooses to participate. But it is also an avenue for a small percentage of kids to make a life altering opportunity come about. ALL KIDS are selfish, and how do we know? Because we were those kids and we raise kids. We all know that at that point in our lives the world is small and self centered. It's the great ones that can put their selfishness aside a bit and rally teammates, they can lead others to be and perform better than they thought they could. We all want the best, we want to win but at what cost is the question? Are we moving because of the "better opportunity" or is that code for my son can't win a championship where he's at. And thats why i have said countless times, I don't have a problem with moves for the right reason. It all depends on what each family decides of what is right and wrong What is most important to them and their child. But i see valid points in both sides.
 
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I must admit i am enjoying this topic a lot better than the usual Richmond head coach roast that typically takes place this time of year. Sorry to let you down Blue and Gold. Ha Ha
 
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