East Forsyth @ West Forsyth

[Veejay4]

Should be somewhat interesting if not for a half Friday night. West players seemed fired up on WXII 12 last Friday and may have poked the bear with some banter.

Always a big game in the county and well attended. If Reagan continues to rise in the rankings that game may unseat this one this year.

 

[Warhead1]

Be careful what you ask for! Was it the WF QB that was smack talking on live TV? I bet coach Snow was ready to choke him after that interview.

 

[ForsythCo]

Got East by a few touchdowns. Of course anything can happen, but I don't think East will have too much trouble with West.

 

[truthofda336]

East should win in a landslide! But, West will probably make it closer than it should be this season.

 

[Veejay4]

Be careful what you ask for! Was it the WF QB that was smack talking on live TV? I bet coach Snow was ready to choke him after that interview.

No. 7 seemed to have alot to say after being asked did they like East and was wolfing about stay tuned next Friday (tonight).

I like it but West shouldn't be firing up East the least at all. East has enough motivation having lost to them last year

 

[Veejay4]

East should win in a landslide! But, West will probably make it closer than it should be this season.

Any other year maybe but trust and believe East is highly motivated having lost to them last year.

West is struggling where East is strong but it is East vs West though. I just don't see it with the lost hanging over them from last year.

West won't be able to protect their qb I don't believe.

 

[truthofda336]

What is going on at Glenn? They started strong but have not continued. It appears they had a Sr.-Sawtelle start game 1 and a few turnovers and instead of coaching he was constantly being ripped by the HC, then after RB- Sutton plays a wild cat type QB and does alright then I saw another name....also I heard they had a QB from the Davidson County area who was supposed to be good? Is he on Varsity? I would presume so as their JV team at Glenn got worked by Reagan last night based on the final score reported.

Will Reynolds bounce back? I have heard the best QB they have is not starting as a Sr QB who has an influential father is tight with the Head Coach. Once again, not wanting to stir the pot...just merely observations I am inquiring about.

 

[red_wilson1]

@Veejay4 your reaching hard for bulletin board material aren't you?? My nephew is Gmone' Wilson and my little cousin is #7 the QB you mention Jalen Ferguson. If anyone in the West Forsyth community knows him, they know that sounds nothing like him to talk trash about an opposing team. He's one of the most humble kids you will ever meet... If your not sure, ask some of your players at East, who grew up playing with him in little league football. I have the segment recorded and we felt he represented our family well by simply stating when Kenny Beck asked him about his play. "I would like to thank my line and teammates". Where is the smack talk? Were the kids excited, of course, they're on TV! Now my nephew G'mone may have went overboard with the sunglasses on but no harm no foul. Lol. I would invite you to post the segment here if you feel I'm lying, but I'm sure you want... BTW, I will be in the tailgate section before the game with a gray West T-shirt. Would love to meet you and talk football. Everybody in the city knows East is the team to beat. Hopefully we play well and see a good game!

 

[ForsythCo]

Wasn’t able to make it to this game tonight. What happened. Score looked a little close.

 

[Veejay4]

@Veejay4 your reaching hard for bulletin board material aren't you?? My nephew is Gmone' Wilson and my little cousin is #7 the QB you mention Jalen Ferguson. If anyone in the West Forsyth community knows him, they know that sounds nothing like him to talk trash about an opposing team. He's one of the most humble kids you will ever meet... If your not sure, ask some of your players at East, who grew up playing with him in little league football. I have the segment recorded and we felt he represented our family well by simply stating when Kenny Beck asked him about his play. "I would like to thank my line and teammates". Where is the smack talk? Were the kids excited, of course, they're on TV! Now my nephew G'mone may have went overboard with the sunglasses on but no harm no foul. Lol. I would invite you to post the segment here if you feel I'm lying, but I'm sure you want... BTW, I will be in the tailgate section before the game with a gray West T-shirt. Would love to meet you and talk football. Everybody in the city knows East is the team to beat. Hopefully we play well and see a good game!

That's why I said Lol at the end of my comment and I also said I like it. I'm old school and kind of hate people have become so butt hurt with trash talk.

Has taken fun out of old school football. He was the cool cat on TV and I should've elaborated that he wasn't overboard. Its almost refreshing to see teams call out each other.

Meant nothing by it guy. Hate I responded late would've loved to have joined you. I have fam who coach and play at East so I'm just as invested. If you're not confident you shouldn't play this game.

 

[Veejay4]

We played about as bad as we could and West played well especially defensively.

I was at the Parkland vs SW Guilford game a couple weeks ago and thought those refs were terrible until tonight. At least every 2 plays was a penalty and the kicker was a chain measured first down by East with a minute left that was overturned to 4th down. Lived 45 years and seen some football but never a call overturned like that.

Should've known better than predict a blowout in this rivalry. Nevertheless a DUB!

Hats off to West who was more than game tonight.

 

[Warhead1]

Man some of those calls were absolutely awful tonight. West had every call go there way plus East turned the ball over 3 or so times by fumbling. The East Forsyth defense came to play tonight. They stepped up big when they had to even with key injuries. I've also never seen a White hat signal 1st down then let the "Home" chain crew reposition the down markers re measured and signal 4th down? Great win by the Eagles. West is still a pretty good team but if East wants to take the next step they can't have all the mistakes on offense and special teams like they did tonight. Good game to watch.

 

[nepsy7]

16-10? I thought this was supposed to be a blow out?

 

[PagePirates44]

Surprising score line. Just goes to show that EF really came to play against Page. Not surprised by that at all.

 

[red_wilson1]

Hate I missed you @Veejay4, I waited up until the Eagles won the coin toss. I even had a plate waiting on you at Titan tailgate. It was what a rivalry should be... A hard fought battle between two good teams. @Warhead1 you must have a dislike for West, because calls were bad both ways. I don't know what it is, but the refs have been horrible this year. We were talking in the stands about how the East receivers were pretty much grabbing West DB's jerseys inside and holding them on jet sweep plays (no call) I admit the first down given to East and then taken back was horrible, but so too was the intentional grounding call on quarterback Ferguson, when he was clearly out of the pocket on East sideline and the TE #81 was in the area. Late in the 2nd quarter East quarterback was clearly past the line of scrimmage on the throw to Crowell that he ran to the 3 yard line just before the half but luckily the kick was blocked, so some things go your way some things don't... I do know the D coordinator talked to my nephew & cousin after the game and he told them they were good players and they have to be the best 4-3 team in the state. Most West fans knew going into the season we would be young on offense as East was young last year and senior heavy on defense this year. All I'm saying is watch out next year, the offense only loses #6 and everybody else is back, a lot of juniors on defense too... as I mentioned Friday, I wanted to see a good game and we got that for sure.

 

[bumblebee33]

Went back and watched the replay of the play right before the half. I thought he had to be over the line too. Ball was on the 40 and QB scrambled but threw it from the 40 so he wasn't past the line of scrimmage. Penalties are killing East. Gave WF a first down on the FG try early, turned that into a TD. Scored a TD in the 2nd half that got called back for block in back way behind play, ending up with nothing on that. Have to clean that up or it will bite them come playoff time. I hope this game serves as a wake up call as East hadn't been challenged all year. Good to have these close games sometimes to get the kids back refocused.

 

[Sportsnut17]

No such thing as out of pocket or outside the tackle box in H.S. football .

 

[Veejay4]

Surprising score line. Just goes to show that EF really came to play against Page. Not surprised by that at all.

Glad you get it. Of course the others dump on East as soon as they can. So quick to comment that they didn't read I admitted I was wrong on the score and should've known better considering the rivalry. Can't get those same suckas to respond about that Vance comment though.

 

[Veejay4]

16-10? I thought this was supposed to be a blow out?

I thought I asked you about that Vance comment you have YET to respond to but you managed to find your way here to comment on this. I didn't run from what I said and was wrong. Should've known better. Man you all can't wait for the blood in the water with EF.

Played poorly and the officiating was more than charitable toward West yet we got the W.

 

[nepsy7]

I thought I asked you about that Vance comment you have YET to respond to but you managed to find your way here to comment on this. I didn't run from what I said and was wrong. Should've known better. Man you all can't wait for the blood in the water with EF.

Played poorly and the officiating was more than charitable toward West yet we got the W.

I have no clue what you're talking about? I'm familiar with some of the players at EF. I myself imagined they would blow WF off the map. I was just inquiring from people who know more within the program. BLOOD IN THE WATER???? It's not that serious. Come on man!

 

[Veejay4]

I have no clue what you're talking about? I'm familiar with some of the players at EF. I myself imagined they would blow WF off the map. I was just inquiring from people who know more within the program. BLOOD IN THE WATER???? It's not that serious. Come on man!

Talking about your comment that Vance would be the favorite in 4A. Going back in looking at my comment I didn't pose it as a question to you in your defense but questioned someone else about it.

While we're on it can you enlighten me on why Vance would be the favorite? Up until last Friday East hadn't been challenged.

I contend this East team is similar to the team that had Creek on the ropes a few years back. I'm not certain how close to that Creek team this one is but I imagine Vance isn't that much better than Creek.

We understand until we get it done we won't be mentioned with Creek, Butler, Wake or Page but somehow Vance will be the favorite in 4A West?

 

[nepsy7]

Talking about your comment that Vance would be the favorite in 4A. Going back in looking at my comment I didn't pose it as a question to you in your defense but questioned someone else about it.

While we're on it can you enlighten me on why Vance would be the favorite? Up until last Friday East hadn't been challenged.

I contend this East team is similar to the team that had Creek on the ropes a few years back. I'm not certain how close to that Creek team this one is but I imagine Vance isn't that much better than Creek.

We understand until we get it done we won't be mentioned with Creek, Butler, Wake or Page but somehow Vance will be the favorite in 4A West?

I'm big on defense. Vance has a very good defense,they would be my favorite if they went 4a because I believe they would be more battle tested based off the level of competition. I also don't believe I would put this EF team on the level of the 2015 team with Martin, Cone and Beal.

 

[Blue and Gold22]

Talking about your comment that Vance would be the favorite in 4A. Going back in looking at my comment I didn't pose it as a question to you in your defense but questioned someone else about it.

While we're on it can you enlighten me on why Vance would be the favorite? Up until last Friday East hadn't been challenged.

I contend this East team is similar to the team that had Creek on the ropes a few years back. I'm not certain how close to that Creek team this one is but I imagine Vance isn't that much better than Creek.

We understand until we get it done we won't be mentioned with Creek, Butler, Wake or Page but somehow Vance will be the favorite in 4A West?

I havent seen this EF team so its hard for me to compare to Vance or previous EF squads. I curious though. 2012 they played close againt Butler, 15 very tight against MC, 16 good game against Catholic. They always seem to be very good on one side of the ball but average on the other side. Is this the year they break the Meck County curse?

 

[ForsythCo]

I'm big on defense. Vance has a very good defense,they would be my favorite if they went 4a because I believe they would be more battle tested based off the level of competition. I also don't believe I would put this EF team on the level of the 2015 team with Martin, Cone and Beal.

I don't know if this team is as good as the 2015 team either, but they do have something now that the 2015 team didn't have and that's a good QB.

They also have a better group of receivers with Crowell leading the charge. Their running back Marshall, while not as dynamic as Beal is more of a bruiser than he was. On the defense of end Martin (the other Martin) is one hell of a player out there.

On the offensive end, I think they're better. Defense is a tossup.

Also based on history with Wake Forest winning the two last championships pretty easily I'm not sure if being battle test really means anything anymore lol.

But we'll see. I'm excited for playoff football this year and wish a healthy rest of the season for all teams.

 

[Blue and Gold22]

I don't know if this team is as good as the 2015 team either, but they do have something now that the 2015 team didn't have and that's a good QB.

They also have a better group of receivers with Crowell leading the charge. Their running back Marshall, while not as dynamic as Beal is more of a bruiser than he was. On the defense of end Martin (the other Martin) is one hell of a player out there.

On the offensive end, I think they're better. Defense is a tossup.

Also based on history with Wake Forest winning the two last championships pretty easily I'm not sure if being battle test really means anything anymore lol.

But we'll see. I'm excited for playoff football this year and wish a healthy rest of the season for all teams.

Wake Forest finally broke through after upgrading their schedule. Losing in 3 title games also helped.

 

[nepsy7]

Also based on history with Wake Forest winning the two last championships pretty easily I'm not sure if being battle test really means anything anymore lol.

Oh yea! It matters. As B&G posted. WF didn't just show up one year. They were beat in numerous State Championship before they got it.

 

[ForsythCo]

Wake Forest finally broke through after upgrading their schedule. Losing in 3 title games also helped.

I’ve never bought into that. And I say that because teams can change drastically in one year. It all comes down to coaching and talent. Of course getting to the title game year after year persuades talent to go to that school.

Wake forest didn’t beat Page and Mallard Creek because of experience. They beat them because they were flat out better.

Also look at Harding. Look what happened when they lost their head coach and their #1 player. They’re a terrible team now.

 

[ForsythCo]

Also based on history with Wake Forest winning the two last championships pretty easily I'm not sure if being battle test really means anything anymore lol.

Oh yea! It matters. As B&G posted. WF didn't just show up one year. They were beat in numerous State Championship before they got it.

But those previous teams had nothing to do with the kids that played there the last couple years and this year. Those are different teams with different levels of talent. The coaching didn’t do anything drastically different from previous years to get there. They just had more talent and Mallard Creek and Page had less talent the last two years compared to Wake Forest.

This year it looks different. Mallard Creek is a more mature and more talented team than last year. If I was a betting man I would say they’re going to win it all this year barring significant injuries.

 

[nepsy7]

I’ve never bought into that. And I say that because teams can change drastically in one year. It all comes down to coaching and talent. Of course getting to the title game year after year persuades talent to go to that school.

Wake forest didn’t beat Page and Mallard Creek because of experience. They beat them because they were flat out better.

Also look at Harding. Look what happened when they lost their head coach and their #1 player. They’re a terrible team now.

Nope! It's a totally different experience playing in big games, and the Championship game. Teams can change, but your coach has to be ready for the kitchen sink. Harding was a once and a life time program, plus it was Crouch with numerous FBS guys. Everyone in Charlotte knew they were going to be a one hit wonder. We saw their JV. Nothing coming up the pipe line. Why do you think the coach got the hell out of there? The majority of State Championship teams are usually knocking at the door previous years, before they win. Very few just get hot and show up in one season. It's a process.

 

[nepsy7]

They just had more talent and Mallard Creek and Page had less talent the last two years compared to Wake Forest. false! false!

Arguably MC's best team in school history lost to Page in the playoffs. A couple of All Americans, A few kids on that team played in the NFL & CFL with numerous D1 talents. MC talent was off the charts. They lost. No experience playing in big games had a lot to do with it. Those same coaches are on a different level now.

All coaches don't perform the same when the bright lights come on. The players follow their lead.

 

[ForsythCo]

Nope! It's a totally different experience playing in big games, and the Championship game. Teams can change, but your coach has to be ready for the kitchen sink. Harding was a once and a life time program, plus it was Crouch with numerous FBS guys. Everyone in Charlotte knew they were going to be a one hit wonder. We saw their JV. Nothing coming up the pipe line. Why do you think the coach got the hell out of there? The majority of State Championship teams are usually knocking at the door previous years, before they win. Very few just get hot and show up in one season. It's a process.

They just had more talent and Mallard Creek and Page had less talent the last two years compared to Wake Forest. false! false!

Arguably MC's best team in school history lost to Page in the playoffs. A couple of All Americans, A few kids on that team played in the NFL & CFL with numerous D1 talents. MC talent was off the charts. They lost. No experience playing in big games had a lot to do with it. Those same coaches are on a different level now.

All coaches don't perform the same when the bright lights come on. The players follow their lead.

I just can't agree with you guys. What a program did a few years ago with a different roster has no bearing on what happens on a roster 4 years down the line because no matter how much a coach tell their players about a previous championship game, that player will still not have experienced a championship game. Mallard Creek, Wake Forest, Page, Dudley, etc. are constantly in the thick of things because they have great rosters as well as great coaches. They're not good because they play tough competition. And truth be told you can skate by with a great roster alone on occasions.

A program like Scotland is doing pretty bad this year not because of coaching, but because their roster isn't up to par this year. But because that school has had success (and also because there isn't another school in Scotland County) they'll be fine in a year or two.

Let's look at Reidsville. They consistently play mediocre teams, yet year after year they find themselves in the championship game. Having a weak schedule has not stopped that team from succeeding. Just because Mallard Creek has a tough schedule doesn't mean a tough schedule is going to help that team win it all.

Correlation does not imply causation.

 

[Blue and Gold22]

They just had more talent and Mallard Creek and Page had less talent the last two years compared to Wake Forest. false! false!

Arguably MC's best team in school history lost to Page in the playoffs. A couple of All Americans, A few kids on that team played in the NFL & CFL with numerous D1 talents. MC talent was off the charts. They lost. No experience playing in big games had a lot to do with it. Those same coaches are on a different level now.

All coaches don't perform the same when the bright lights come on. The players follow their lead.

Think Nepsy hits on the head here. Its not just the players. In many ways the experience of the coaching staff matters more. Palmieri will tell you that you have to lose before you can win big. Kids do change but putting those kids into tough situations in tough spots develops a culture. I personally dont think competition is EF's issue but I can tell you I think that EF 2015 squad started celebrating a victory WAY too early that night and had a let down on that final drive. To me that's coaching. That 2011 team Nepsy talks about rolled everyone and were certain they were gonna walk into Page on that Black Friday and roll Page. Couple things go bad, suddenly you are down a score in a crazy environment...........then its over. The process matters

 

[Blue and Gold22]

I just can't agree with you guys. What a program did a few years ago with a different roster has no bearing on what happens on a roster 4 years down the line because no matter how much a coach tell their players about a previous championship game, that player will still not have experienced a championship game. Mallard Creek, Wake Forest, Page, Dudley, etc. are constantly in the thick of things because they have great rosters as well as great coaches. They're not good because they play tough competition. And truth be told you can skate by with a great roster alone on occasions.

A program like Scotland is doing pretty bad this year not because of coaching, but because their roster isn't up to par this year. But because that school has had success (and also because there isn't another school in Scotland County) they'll be fine in a year or two.

Let's look at Reidsville. They consistently play mediocre teams, yet year after year they find themselves in the championship game. Having a weak schedule has not stopped that team from succeeding. Just because Mallard Creek has a tough schedule doesn't mean a tough schedule is going to help that team win it all.

Correlation does not imply causation.

Sure....you win with players. No question but as you progress in the playoffs the difference in talent shrinks. Let you in on a little secret. 2014 WF was way more talented than MC....they lost that game because Palmieri out coached Lucas that night. Was aggressive out of the gate and made great half time adjustments to slow down Love.

You dont think Scotland had more talent than Cape Fear in 2016?? Bailey got out coached that night.

 

[ForsythCo]

Sure....you win with players. No question but as you progress in the playoffs the difference in talent shrinks. Let you in on a little secret. 2014 WF was way more talented than MC....they lost that game because Palmieri out coached Lucas that night. Was aggressive out of the gate and made great half time adjustments to slow down Love.

You dont think Scotland had more talent than Cape Fear in 2016?? Bailey got out coached that night.

But that just proves my point with the experience and schedule thing. Schedule doesn’t matter and championship experience doesn’t matter. Cape Fear was able to beat Scotland while having very little playoff experience period. That #2 also willed his team to a victory in the offensive end.

Damn shame he was hurt doing the Championship game. We could have seen a more competitive game.

I’ll say this we’re not going to agree on philosophies. And that’s cool. I’ll just say I’ve seen teams go far and win it all far to often without the prerequisites that you and Nep say are required to win it all.

 

[nepsy7]

Has a lot to do with strength of schedule. It's why MC playing Butler turned around the program. Gave them a better understanding of what it took to beat the best. You notice Richmond County is playing WF now. You think that's a coincidence? You have to also began developing players and getting them ready. MC spends a lot of time developing their JV team. You just don't roll the dice and hope you get some studs on your roster. You develop the young guys you have. It's called depth. Cape Fear just literally out coached Scotland. Than they ran into a team that had a long history of playing in big games. Dudley 54-0.

Name me the team the last 10 years outside of Harding that just showed up one season in won the 4A or 4AA State Championship? It's a process. Gotta pay those dues 1st.

The coaching philosophy during a State Championship and big time regional games are a little different than any other game. If your coaching staff is not ready. They'll get smoked. Playing great competition helps you prepare. Butler, MC, Page, Charlotte Catholic, Dudley, and Wake Forest all went through the process It happens all the time. Teams go through a cup cake schedule, than face a stud program they've never seen before. The plays aren't quite working the way they did before. block punts, fumbles, interceptions. A lot of 3 & outs. Fans will say we just had a bad game. Nope! You ran into stiff competition. The players and coaches must respond in unison. Does stiff competition guarantee a win? Nope. It damn sure helps, and gives you a better understanding of what to expect.

It's hard to understand, If you've never had the luxury of being around teams that are familiar with the process.

 

[Ben-Badd]

All of the above was quite interesting and quite knowledgable..."experience is the best teacher".

 

[bumblebee33]

I agree with a lot of what Nep and B&G are saying. Just a few years ago, EF was a high seed, got up big on Providence, started looking ahead to MC the next week, and just like that, things started going against them and they collapsed. Last year, EF was down 2 scores late against WM with nothing working, coaches switched up the QB and found a way to pull out the win. No way that loss to Providence happens now. But that experience along with Butler 2012, MC 2015, CC 2016, playing tight games with Page the last few years, all helps the coaching staff be able to keep a clear head and make the right adjustments in the moment, and help keep the kids focused in those tight moments. If the coaches can't handle the moment, the players won't. So while it may be new players, they are being led by the same coaches who have grown from the experience. That's how EF turned a 5 loss season last year into a 3rd rd playoff year, while WF turned an undefeated season into a 1st rd home loss. Coaching experience!

 

[Post 36]

But that just proves my point with the experience and schedule thing. Schedule doesn’t matter and championship experience doesn’t matter. Cape Fear was able to beat Scotland while having very little playoff experience period. That #2 also willed his team to a victory in the offensive end.

Damn shame he was hurt doing the Championship game. We could have seen a more competitive game.

I’ll say this we’re not going to agree on philosophies. And that’s cool. I’ll just say I’ve seen teams go far and win it all far to often without the prerequisites that you and Nep say are required to win it all.

As a coach in a different sport, your culture and vision for your program's identity is built over time. The coach can only carry things so far and the vision carriers aka the players build the culture off of the foundation the coach's establish. It takes time and it takes big game experience. The really good coaches don't get bit by the same mistake twice, well at least without recognizing it and trying to stop it before it happens. Culture and experience is why certain teams have a point advantage before they ever step off the bus. We beat more talented teams often by the established name on the front of the jersey. The key ingredient is establishing what we do, and then the players learning and teaching the next crop what makes us who we are as a program. That is winning culture and it is a real thing. Teams come and go, but programs are constantly evolving into a stronger version of itself. Programs ebb and flow come from a combination of special bonds and special players, but you rarely see drastic fluctuations in winning programs.

 

[Veejay4]

Think Nepsy hits on the head here. Its not just the players. In many ways the experience of the coaching staff matters more. Palmieri will tell you that you have to lose before you can win big. Kids do change but putting those kids into tough situations in tough spots develops a culture. I personally dont think competition is EF's issue but I can tell you I think that EF 2015 squad started celebrating a victory WAY too early that night and had a let down on that final drive. To me that's coaching. That 2011 team Nepsy talks about rolled everyone and were certain they were gonna walk into Page on that Black Friday and roll Page. Couple things go bad, suddenly you are down a score in a crazy environment...........then its over. The process matters

I was at that Creek game a few years back and quite honestly I think the opposite happened. No one with a shred of common sense thought Creek was out of that game. What I saw was a program that wasn't as loose in the final minutes against a program that seemed like they'd been there before even down 8.

I believe it's some legitimacy in coaches performing in big time environments and those that haven't. It's hard to quantify it but it's a factor nonetheless.

Teams tend to take on personalities or disposition of their coaches. Talent is also a factor but I believe coaches responding in coaching situations carry more weight.

Thanks @nepsy7 and hopefully East and Vance can meet and we finally get over the hump. I'm assuming it'll be in 4A West final.

 

[Veejay4]

Accurate assessment. East had more name recognition but this team while without a home run hitter at RB can go down field when they feel like it now.

Marshall, Chapman etc....by commitee are more than adequate in the backfield and their styles compliment each other. We won't see another Beal walk through East for awhile. The most glaring difference is the qb play which on any level from flag mitey mites to the NFL is a must to advance and we now have a qb to get it done.

The one thing no one mentioned and sometimes plays into an advantage too is how brackets play out. Very few teams will ever repeat that gauntlet Summers and Co. (Page) ran through a few years back. More often than not a team may catch a break if a high ranked team is upset.