Dutch Fork vs Gaffney 5A State Championship game
- Thread starter Vik-Val 86
- Start date
1993 Crest 11-2
1995 Crest 12-2
1997 Crest 11-3
Very good but not 4A state champ caliber
1995 Crest 12-2
1997 Crest 11-3
Very good but not 4A state champ caliber
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Charlotte high school championship level football for decades prior to the 90’s was noticeably absent, except for lone appearances by South Meck and East Meck. Why was that?
Knotts began assembling teams and it hasn’t been the same since.
It has been, however, not program driven but individual Coach driven. Why is that?
Knotts is the best….but Indy is not.
The carousel of flavors of the month have been Indy, Butler, Mallard Creek, and now Vance/Chambers. Programs driven by strong coaches who, upon leaving, fade back into also rans. And the better players continue to move to that month’s flavor, abandoning the programs with the coach.
Isn’t it the more desirable goal to build and maintain a consistently winning PROGRAM within the same community and not be so dependent on any one coach and his personality, expertise, and work ethic?
We need to shift most of the focus, publicity, and celebrity away from these temporary coaches and back on how a high school and its community can develop a truly lasting top program.
It can be done.
1991 the weather got them as much as anything. Rained for a few days and the last of four games at Kenan made the field terrible.
1993 team was not beating Northern Durham.
1995 was the least likely of all to win it and they did. 1996 were beat at the line allowing Doggett big numbers nor could they handle the big TE that went to NC State. He dominated when blocking and was able to make some big catches when they needed it. Couple of turnover key times hurt them and probably the doom as Page scored late for the win. That should have been a W.
1997 we discussed.
1998 not as good as 1997 and RC probably better in 1998.
Realistically four titles instead of one in the 1990's was definitely in their grasp. WC just did not have as complete of teams as Indy and never had the kind of QBs Indy had.
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Think WC had the QBs, but in the 00s football changed in Charlotte with the open enrollment and more emphasis from the Panthers. The Panthers first year was 1995. Seems so long ago. LOL. Indy and other Charlotte powers after then got huge boost from football boom in popularity. There was more focus on training and specifically QB training. Also teams went more spread. Leak/Cox were exceptional but I wouldn't say above Green/Matkins. One the mode end I'll agree that WC had some lower end QBs near the end of KNotts with vs. the typical avg INdy QB.
I said Waddell ran the kick-off back but I was basing that on what someone else said several years back. It could have been someone else and it probably wasn't 100 yards...it just sounded good! No matter, the throat slash fired up everyone on the Richmond team!! The refs had nothing to do with it!!
It was Waddell and there was a lot of controversy over the ball not being blown dead.
The run at Memorial Stadium from inside the five was the perfect storm with defensive set, offensive play call, and the player with the ball. Any other player is probably ran down before it becomes a back breaker but not close with him.
I think I saw the play you are referring to! Was it the wide pitch to Waddell sweeping out of the backfield where he ran ~90 yards for a TD in the 14 -0 game against WC?
Wrong 2x in 97 and 2x in 98. In 1997 we played them in the regular season and in the playoffs.
Lol we beat them the 3rd game of the season that year as well. By the time we played them in the playoffs we were missing 5 starters. DE Willie Quick “Carolina” OLB Marcus Ellerbe “NC State” starting fullback Vegas Jackson, Conference player of the year starting TB Charles McNeil tried to play with hairline fracture and one of the Offense of Linemen.
I think Independence started the streak against Butler after the loss to Crest. Knotts begged Crest to schedule Independence afterwards and Crest didn’t want none.
1997. 28-14 and 27-26 in third round. Richmond had a couple of two TD games in the regular season a four point win over Crest in the regional final.
1998. 14-0 and 22-12 in third round. Richmond rolled all year except for the WC games and Mt Tabor in the regional final.
1998. 14-0 and 22-12 in third round. Richmond rolled all year except for the WC games and Mt Tabor in the regional final.
You are correct and your memory is like a freaking Hawk. Btango I really think you need to write a book or something about the history on NC high school football. I think you are one of few that goes all the way back with me to NC Home Team message board. Yes we beat 71st 18-6, D. Byrd 28-12, and Scotland 23-7 in the regular season. The 1997 team was more of a defensive team.
So in 1997, 2A Shelby defeated defending united 4A Champion Crest 18-7, yet Crest went on to finish in the united 4A Western Finals that same season, losing by 4 points to Richmond Senior.
Richmond Senior won the 4A Title the following week, 27-7, over Fayetteville Bird.
Hmmm. Interesting.
Back to the title Game for the last 25 years I have notice that Charlotte has had a lot of 4A/4AA titles in the 90’s it was West Charlotte but Independence we’re on there heels with the older brother of Chris Leak, then Knotts took Independence and built them into a Powehouse for years, then Butler had their Reign. Mallard Creek came along and now Vance/Chambers. When the power shifts again I have my money on Hough. I think the title game will be a great game with Athletes on both side of the ball but I will give the nod to Chambers for $200.
somewhat. Folks seem to forget WC was playing high level football before Tom Knotts. The shifts in power in charlotte are more to do with newer schools opening, school choice, and coaching. Moreso newer schools opening diluting talent at older schools. Charlotte has become the old guard and newer schools. The old guard has worse facilities and tends to get more low income students whereas the new guard get better facilities and much more prepared student. If those schools hadn;t opened WC, Indy, North, MP and Providence would likely be the top schools talent wise, and winning wise.
Old Guard-WC, Harding, Indy, NM, MP, WM, EM, Garinger, Olympic, South Meck.
New Guard- AK, Berry, Butler, Hopewell, Hough, Chambers, MC, RR.
Now look at those schools. The oldest being Harding, Garinger, and West Charlotte.
Hough will have some challenges from here on out for obvious reasons. I believe the Creek will go back to being a serious contender, if they’re able keep players from transferring. If not for the 11 staters lost this season, they’re possibly in the regional Championship game. Unlike Indy or Butler they weren’t effected by zoning or a new school in the area. The University area is booming with new real estate.
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Just a gut feeling but I think Hough may have missed the window. In particular this year. You could make a strong argument that Hough and Myers Park have had the most talent in the state the past 3-4 years. I think if you were to measure it by D1 scholarships that would validate it. However, I think culture plays a big role in HS football programs and I can tell you from experience in watching Mallard Creek very closely over a 10 year span that once the " gotta get that money" mentality takes precedent over winning the tide turns ever so slightly. I remember Palmieri telling me that he could see it changing about 2015-2016. Kids were getting offers as 10th graders and alot of the kids focus was on Hudl films and who was watching from the sideline. Its real hard managing ego's of 16 year olds and in some cases even harder managing their parents. The kids who had built the program and earned the rings were gone........nobody was hungry anymore. 2016 Creek squad was the poster child for this. 3 Olineman with SEC offers and a 230lb beast of a RB and they couldnt run the ball with any consistency. Dillon, RH Southpointe, AL Brown gave them fits.
Thats why I have so much respect for what Knotts has done. I know he is a brilliant X and O guy but his ability to manage the ego's and keep kids hungry may be his biggest skill.
Hough won’t be as powerful as the previous years? Why is that?
I was higher on Mallard Creek this year than most. They should be back to normal next season.
Butler doesn’t have the same numbers as previous years. Hard to believe they were small 4A in the spring. Independence has always had the enrollment numbers, so it was strange to see them struggle but they are in good hands.
Little 2A Shelby would have never had a chance against Richmond in 1997, man you are reaching. If my memory serves me correctly the 2 games Shelby Crest loss that year in the regular season (Shelby and Gaffney SC the Big 16 State Champs that year) Crest played without a lot of their firepower ie Shamar Finney
In 1997, Shelby beats Crest on their field 18-7 and Richmond beats Crest by 4 at Richmond.
And you say Shelby would have never had a chance against Richmond.
Yes. That makes perfect sense, dcov33.
So Gaffney SC won the Big 16 State Championship in 1997.
Shelby had just completed a four year series with Gaffney in 1996, losing all four games by an average of 11 points (one of the losses was 27-24).
This confirms that Shelby cannot be competitive with larger 4A/5A schools and, historically, actually dodges playing them.
I like and respect Shelby. I will pull for them over any South Carolina team heavily. But it just never seems to end with their fans here. Every so often you get one coming in here and you end up knowing the whole history of Shelby football after they are done. I dont know if its the same poster who keeps coming back or different Shelby posters. Comparing a Shelby score from 25 years ago to a Richmond score 25 years ago is a bit over the top however. Like I said I pull for Shelby over SC schools heavily because they represent NC. But Please , please, please somebody make it happen that Chambers or Hough , MC play Shelby to hush these guys up once and for all.
What a desperate statement. 25 years ago. 😂 It’s like you’re begging to be recognized. Give it up man. You should be embarrassed, but you’re not. You’re an example of what happens, when you become a Cult fan. It’s 😔 sad!
Shelby was looking a for an opponent for their open date a few years ago. A bona fide 4A power from Charlotte offered to make the trip. Shelby did not entertain the offer. Zero. Were not interested.
You point to Crest being the last team to beat Indy prior to the streak. There is a tv interview where Roy Kirby is asked why they have not played Indy. He said with Crest being a 3A size school he did not see the matchup being a sensible option for Crest.
For those pointing to South Pointe being a powerhouse. Yes, they have been but we also know Straitt left and there was some disgruntled parents/players that left after the second round playoff exit in 2018 and then a first round loss in 2019 and a three loss 2020 with a first round playoff loss again. DF showed mercy on Knotts' former elite player in a regular season game in Rock Hill. So, Shelby did not schedule an elite power. They did not think they were getting a state title team.
You can slant it and sell it however you want but until you play an elite power big school team and beat them you are not going to get the full acknowledgement you appear to desire.
Looking forward to enjoying all four of the games this weekend and am looking forward to the 2A game the most.
As I posted on a previous High School thread. Charlotte teams have been playing teams like St. John’s, Highland Springs, and Buford Georgia. Those are National programs. Zero benefit playing a team like Shelby. 🤷🏾♂️ Shelby would be numerous steps down in comparison to those programs.
This is one of the strangest things I've seen you post.
But we did get a state title team....a SC 4A state title team. We had the ball down by 7 with less than 4 minutes to go.
What does it matter what they did the previous years if they proved themselves elite this year?
Sounds like you're just trying to down play the quality of that game.
And this is the exact reason Gaffney stopped the series with Shelby when Shelby went to 2A in '97.
St.Johns & Buford have more power 5 players on their rosters than every team in your county put together. A different animal. It’s evident you guys only follow football in your area. The 25 years ago analogies are horrible. A team like Buford would easily have a running clock on Shelby this year.
btango wrote;
You can slant it and sell it however you want but until you play an elite power big school team and beat them you are not going to get the full acknowledgement you appear to desire.
Really?
Check out Scott Fowler’s article on Shelby in today’s Charlotte Observer online Sports page.
He gets it.
He came on his own to Shelby to write that.
From the Observer,
Sports columnist Scott Fowler has written for The Charlotte Observer since 1994. He has authored or co-authored eight books, including four about the Carolina Panthers. Fowler has won the Thomas Wolfe award for outstanding newspaper writing and has earned 15 national APSE awards. He also hosted The Observer’s 8-part podcast “Carruth,” which Sports Illustrated named 2018’s “Podcast of the Year.”
You guys really think this is about Shelby playing and beating elite 4A and 5A teams?
How petty that is in the face of Scott’s article today.
Vince Lombardi said “The measure of who we are is what we do with what we have.”
The community, the parents and families, the school boards, the school faculty and coaches, the students, the players all share the success of what the Shelby Golden Lions have done with what we have been given and blessed with.
The Golden Lions of Shelby High School are the most successful, sustained, winning football program in the state of North Carolina.
They are;
The True Dynasty.
btango wrote;
You struggled to beat an average AC Reynolds. You’re Little 2A🏆 and now you’re trolling. Nobody wants to here about you guys on the 4A page. Go Home!
They’ll do the moral victories talk. We got 8 first downs, our kicker flipped the field 3 times. they beat a co-Ed team by 4 TD’s. We almost came back on SP, after they took out their starters, and started playing JV guys. We only had -19 yards rushing because our O Line had a bad reaction from sniffing the turf. 😂😂😂
Not what I wrote. Shelby scheduled a team that had been down a few years and many were counting out. A lot of questions about Holloman's ability to get it back to elite status. They did not schedule a defending state champion but a team that had made two first round playoff exits the previous two season and a second round with the previous coach three years ago. Strong, yes? Elite, no one was calling them elite even earlier in the year when Spring Valley beat them by a TD or going to triple OT with South Florence. Spring Valley did not make the 5A playoffs and SF missed the 4A playoffs. Fans did not think they would be playing for state titles then nor when DF was up 35-0 on them last spring.
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