Death of the NCHSAA?

ocdavis31

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I think that will make a lot of people happy until their 400 student traditional school plays an 850 student traditional school in the playoffs. Not to mention magnets and schools in open enrollment districts are unaffected.

I would have underlined ‘based solely on average daily membership,’ which would take away the ability to classify on equitable factors. I’m not sure the ones the NCHSAA used this time around were the answer, but I think a lot of people think the population a school can draw from should be factored in, and this seems to preclude that.
It also may throw the realignment into chaos in 2022. Is it possible that’s what this is really about?
 

Muchadoaboutnothin

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a. Classification of all participating schools in the State into one of four athletic divisions based solely on average daily membership. For charter schools, the rules shall classify those schools into the next largest conference than the school would be assigned to based solely on average daily membership.
b. Classification of all participating schools in the State into conferences based solely on geography, division classification, and average daily membership.


all charter schools will move up a class
I knew charters where not effected because, Berger and his buddies are pushing hard for the re-segregation of North Carolina. This time more so by economic status. I just do not see the difference between parochial schools and charter school. Both can pull from unlimited areas and basically “recruit“ or “draft” anyone they want. Sure the charters claim to have a lottery system but that really doesn’t pertain to athletes as they seem to always find the golden ticket. If anything I would like to see both the parochial and charter schools forced into their own division. Let the teams without borders play each other and be done with it.
 

Thunder_struck8712

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It also may throw the realignment into chaos in 2022. Is it possible that’s what this is really about?

With some of the representatives and senators pushing this, I think that is entirely possible. The NCGA is petty as crap to begin with.

The state hasn't had a budget in 2 years, going on more, the senate just proposed a measley pay rasie for teachers and a measley budget in general for education while they sit on a large surplus also with federal Covid funds, but all of a sudden they come after the NCHSAA while screaming "small government."
 

ocdavis31

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With some of the representatives and senators pushing this, I think that is entirely possible. The NCGA is petty as crap to begin with.

The state hasn't had a budget in 2 years, going on more, the senate just proposed a measley pay rasie for teachers and a measley budget in general for education while they sit on a large surplus also with federal Covid funds, but all of a sudden they come after the NCHSAA while screaming "small government."
If they’re going back to using numbers only, they’ll have to undergo realignment again. Better start now. Typical legislative overreach and strong arming.
 

Thunder_struck8712

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If they’re going back to using numbers only, they’ll have to undergo realignment again. Better start now. Typical legislative overreach and strong arming.

At the rate they work, yes. It looks like schools will start without a budget again. Senate had theirs ready in June. House is saying August last I read. We'd start football season without a realignment. They'd release it midway through the season and throw everything off.

Strong arming is putting it nicely.
 

ObserveAndReport

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If you went solely off of ADM numbers, took parochial schools out of the mix, and didn't put any charters in 1A, then by my math you will have a 1A with a cut-off around 750 that would include current 2A schools such as Goldsboro, Reidsville, Kinston, Hendersonville, James Kenan, SW Onslow, Whiteville, Wallace Rose Hill, Walkertown, Ayden-Grifton, Oxford Webb, and Elizabeth City Northeastern, among others. There would still be magnet schools, and there would be three Forsyth Co. schools that have county-wide open enrollment. It's kind of pick your poison for a school like Northside Pinetown or Andrews or Alleghany.

This would also lock in 4 classes by law--so it would take another act of the legislature to expand to 5 or 6 classes (which is way overdue if you look at the number of schools in each class in neighboring states).
 

TD-FridayNight

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If you went solely off of ADM numbers, took parochial schools out of the mix, and didn't put any charters in 1A, then by my math you will have a 1A with a cut-off around 750 that would include current 2A schools such as Goldsboro, Reidsville, Kinston, Hendersonville, James Kenan, SW Onslow, Whiteville, Wallace Rose Hill, Walkertown, Ayden-Grifton, Oxford Webb, and Elizabeth City Northeastern, among others. There would still be magnet schools, and there would be three Forsyth Co. schools that have county-wide open enrollment. It's kind of pick your poison for a school like Northside Pinetown or Andrews or Alleghany.

This would also lock in 4 classes by law--so it would take another act of the legislature to expand to 5 or 6 classes (which is way overdue if you look at the number of schools in each class in neighboring states).
Needs to be 6 classes in my opinion ! The state just needs to tell the NCHSAA what they did wrong to bring this on and let the NCHSAA straighten out the money problems and work for the schools and not to profit the NCHSAA. Any time big government gets their paws into anything they screw it up. Leave the NCHSAA alone and just let them know big daddy is watching the money.
 

Mhsneer

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You probably need to learn how the budget process and government spending works and then go compare Coopers budget proposal to the Senates.
Sad thing is both sides are all or nothing. Somewhere in the middle is where rational people are. Sad thing that won’t get votes anymore. This country was built on compromise and we can’t get republicans and democrats in a room have some give and take and do what’s best for the kids. The nchsaa is a pretty good example of a bureaucracy that is too fat
 

Mhsneer

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So, this is really about getting Que out, and about who appoints the directors…the association members or politicians.
It’s about the surplus of money and having to provide the very basic equipment for especially football. They could give schools especially rural 1a schools more of the gate and be just fine
 
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Thunder_struck8712

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Sad thing is both sides are all or nothing. Somewhere in the middle is where rational people are. Sad thing that won’t get votes anymore. This country was built on compromise and we can’t get republicans and democrats in a room have some give and take and do what’s best for the kids. The nchsaa is a pretty good example of a bureaucracy that is too fat

You are correct.
 

Thunder_struck8712

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It’s about the surplus of money and having to provide the very basic equipment for especially football. They could give schools especially rural 1a schools more of the gate and be just fine

There should be some sort of revenue sharing procedure on order to make sure that money gets back in the hands of all member schools yearly.
 
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CherokeeKid

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You probably need to learn how the budget process and government spending works and then go compare Coopers budget proposal to the Senates.

All I know is that if Cooper proposes say 9% raises for teachers and the GA proposes say 5% raises, I'm not great at math but if Cooper vetoes that budget than that equals 0% raises for teachers.
 

CherokeeKid

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Sad thing is both sides are all or nothing. Somewhere in the middle is where rational people are. Sad thing that won’t get votes anymore. This country was built on compromise and we can’t get republicans and democrats in a room have some give and take and do what’s best for the kids. The nchsaa is a pretty good example of a bureaucracy that is too fat

Yep. Maybe the leaders at the state level can take your advice and actually pass a budget for the first time in 3 years or so. Well, pass one that Cooper won't veto.
 

ObserveAndReport

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Needs to be 6 classes in my opinion ! The state just needs to tell the NCHSAA what they did wrong to bring this on and let the NCHSAA straighten out the money problems and work for the schools and not to profit the NCHSAA. Any time big government gets their paws into anything they screw it up. Leave the NCHSAA alone and just let them know big daddy is watching the money.
Even if it went to six classes with no charters in 1A it would still be a tough situation for the smallest 30 or so schools.

Taking out charter schools from 1A with four classes would put about 105 in each class and a cutoff around 750; doing that with six classes you'd have around 70 per class and a cutoff around 625. Either way, you still have schools playing schools 2 and 3 times their size in 1A. Compare that with what our neighboring states are doing:

TN: six classes in football, roughly 50 schools per class in public school football divisions, 1A ends at 374 (basketball/baseball is 4 classes with 1A ending at 386)

SC: five classes, roughly 50 schools per class, 1A ends at 304 in grades 9-11 (so around 400 total)

GA: eight classes (including separate public/private Class A), around 55 schools per class except 85 in "A Public" (but 25 don't play football), "A Public" capped at 611, but that's misleading because there's a multiplier on "out of zone" students in Georgia now (they count as 2).

Virginia: six classes, around 50 schools in each class, Class 1 (smallest) caps at 453.

So a small school in NC will not only have to beat out twice as many schools as in nearby states, a lot of the schools they have to beat out are several hundred students bigger than the biggest 1A schools in nearby states.

To me, the best solution involves going to six classes with a multiplier that pushes open enrollment schools--not just charter, but magnet, Early College, etc.--that have bigger advantages (bigger population to draw from, etc.) up a class, while leaving smaller, more rural ones that are competitively appropriate for 1A to help keep the cap for 1A down. I don't think the multipliers they came up with this time around are the answer, but I don't like putting into state law that you can't use anything other than ADM right as Georgia and other states are realizing that's an outdated way of doing it.
 
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Griddie

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So, this is really about getting Que out, and about who appoints the directors…the association members or politicians.
She needs to be put she is awful. Since Adams and Strunk left it has steadily declined at a rapid pace. She was and is way over her head from the beginning.
 
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bareman

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Both sides met today in Raleigh for over 2 hours; both said it was “productive” but if you watch the video and listen, one can tell who got their point across; the legislation will continue to move forward
 
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Thunder_struck8712

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I think it was HS Ovetime that did the poll. But they polled all ADs in the NCHSAA. About 56% responded. Only about 5% supported disbanding the NCHSAA.

Our government representatives are supposed to work for the people and make decisions for the people. The people have not asked for this. This is absolutely horrible.
 

LetsGetIt7

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I think we can all agree on the fact that the NCHSAA is broken. They need some changes, I have heard from many coaches and AD's that only gripe and complain about them. Now with that being said do I think having the state take over is the right answer, NO I do not. But, some changes need to be made in Chapel Hill! Maybe this is the wake up call they needed down there.
 

btango

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Both sides met today in Raleigh for over 2 hours; both said it was “productive” but if you watch the video and listen, one can tell who got their point across; the legislation will continue to move forward
Don't think so. Bigger voices have spoke behind closed doors. They will work with the NCHSAA. They have realized they were lighting the fuse to a logistical bomb.
 
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strikerHHS

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I knew charters where not effected because, Berger and his buddies are pushing hard for the re-segregation of North Carolina. This time more so by economic status. I just do not see the difference between parochial schools and charter school. Both can pull from unlimited areas and basically “recruit“ or “draft” anyone they want. Sure the charters claim to have a lottery system but that really doesn’t pertain to athletes as they seem to always find the golden ticket. If anything I would like to see both the parochial and charter schools forced into their own division. Let the teams without borders play each other and be done with it.

even though they operate differently, charter schools are still considered public schools and receive public funding. that’s what separates them from the parochial schools in this matter.
 

strikerHHS

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Don't think so. Bigger voices have spoke behind closed doors. They will work with the NCHSAA. They have realized they were lighting the fuse to a logistical bomb.

republican leadership and the 3 musketeers are at odds over all of this now? interesting
 

bareman

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gonna be changes….really don’t see the privates getting kicked out (elected folks not doing that) but I truly think you’ll see the charters and privates playing up a class….and I don’t expect another HS in NC to get fined…they’ll be other repercussions…main thing I see happening is the Association will have heavy oversight into all its matters…IT WILL NOT GO BACK TO LIKE IT WAS..not happening
 

btango

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gonna be changes….really don’t see the privates getting kicked out (elected folks not doing that) but I truly think you’ll see the charters and privates playing up a class….and I don’t expect another HS in NC to get fined…they’ll be other repercussions…main thing I see happening is the Association will have heavy oversight into all its matters…IT WILL NOT GO BACK TO LIKE IT WAS..not happening
IF a team gets in a brawl or as a continued issue with fighting do you think they will remove the team from the playoffs? I have been told that superintendents and principals want harsh punishment for this but I think the players that fight need to be dealt with individually and the ones that leave the bench less so. After that they need to think outside the box.

If teams are not forfeiting or being removed from the playoffs for violations you will see more and more issues as the reward will far outweigh the penalty if caught.
 

realjoejr

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a. Classification of all participating schools in the State into one of four athletic divisions based solely on average daily membership. For charter schools, the rules shall classify those schools into the next largest conference than the school would be assigned to based solely on average daily membership.
b. Classification of all participating schools in the State into conferences based solely on geography, division classification, and average daily membership.


all charter schools will move up a class
Praise the Lord! No more Charters in 1A!
 
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bareman

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IF a team gets in a brawl or as a continued issue with fighting do you think they will remove the team from the playoffs? I have been told that superintendents and principals want harsh punishment for this but I think the players that fight need to be dealt with individually and the ones that leave the bench less so. After that they need to think outside the box.

If teams are not forfeiting or being removed from the playoffs for violations you will see more and more issues as the reward will far outweigh the penalty if caught.
teams will be punished but the monetary fines are probably history (for a little while at least)
 

LetsGetIt7

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IF a team gets in a brawl or as a continued issue with fighting do you think they will remove the team from the playoffs? I have been told that superintendents and principals want harsh punishment for this but I think the players that fight need to be dealt with individually and the ones that leave the bench less so. After that they need to think outside the box.

If teams are not forfeiting or being removed from the playoffs for violations you will see more and more issues as the reward will far outweigh the penalty if caught.
btango, I completely agree on the fighting. They have the ability to review the film and suspend the perpetrators. I have never agreed with ejecting kids or suspending them for leaving the bench. Always was taught to defend your teammates. I just don't think an entire team should be ruled out of the playoffs over ejections, should be a case by case review.
 
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