Cut Backs Needed, Too Many Undeserving Teams Playing

TD-FridayNight

Well-Known Member
Oct 28, 2015
2,181
938
113
Mayberry - RFD,NC
Cut Backs Needed, Too Many Undeserving Teams Playing ! !
Do away with these schools that win less than half their games and cut it to 48 or 32 teams. How many weeks could that cut till the State Championship game, 1 or 2 ? We have teams in Football and basketball that have no business wasting gas driving up to 4 & 1/2 hours or more one way and everyone knows they are going to lose. That money and expenses can be used for something else at the school. A 4 & 8 conference win team is not going to beat a Girls Murphy, Mount Airy, Avery or on & on. You may have an upset once in a blue moon. It is all about the NCHSAA getting their cut in the games at the school's expense. Take #32 South Stanly girls for one, they were 8 & 18 and lost to Pamlico 68 to 23 & the boys #32 Murphy were 8 & 19 lost to WSPrep 90 to 56. This was about a 9 hour round trip. Ridiculous only to make extra money for the NCHSAA and cost the schools unnecessary. I am sure these schools could use that wasted gas money for something else. Even our Mount Airy boys were in last place in the NWC and 7 & 16 and lost in round #1.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Crimson jacket 1991

survivor 1110

Well-Known Member
Feb 9, 2019
495
86
28
Do away with these schools that win less than half their games and cut it to 48 or 32 teams. How many weeks could that cut till the State Championship game, 1 or 2 ? We have teams in Football and basketball that have no business wasting gas driving up to 4 & 1/2 hours or more one way and everyone knows they are going to lose. That money and expenses can be used for something else at the school. A 4 & 8 team is not going to beat a Murphy, Mount Airy, Avery or on & on. You may have an upset once in a blue moon. It is all about the NCHSAA getting their cut in the games at the school's expense. Take #32 South Stanly girls for one, they were 8 & 18 and lost to Pamlico 68 to 23 & the boys #32 Murphy were 8 & 19 lost to WSPrep 90 to 56. This was about a 9 hour round trip. Ridiculous only to make extra money for the NCHSAA and cost the schools unnecessary. I am sure these schools could use that wasted gas money for something else. Even our Mount Airy boys were in last place in the NWC and 7 & 16 and lost in round #1.
That is true. But remember my Avery girls sitting at home last year when they cut it to 48 teams. They really could have used that playoff experience. If you are going to do that, throw out the conference finishes. Put the teams in by their rankings. That will make these cupcake teams like cherryville and Lincoln charter who won their conference and barely beat the worse team in the WHC, to play tougher non conference schedules to have a high enough ranking to get in playoffs. The way the system is now, too many good teams would be sitting at home if you cut the field down to 32 teams. Also, be done with the split conferences. Put teams with their own class, and don't have these stupid rules about if you don't finish this high in your conference, you are out. Avery would have 3 conference championships in the last 4 years if they are in all 1a conference
 

survivor 1110

Well-Known Member
Feb 9, 2019
495
86
28
That is true. But remember my Avery girls sitting at home last year when they cut it to 48 teams. They really could have used that playoff experience. If you are going to do that, throw out the conference finishes. Put the teams in by their rankings. That will make these cupcake teams like cherryville and Lincoln charter who won their conference and barely beat the worse team in the WHC, to play tougher non conference schedules to have a high enough ranking to get in playoffs. The way the system is now, too many good teams would be sitting at home if you cut the field down to 32 teams. Also, be done with the split conferences. Put teams with their own class, and don't have these stupid rules about if you don't finish this high in your conference, you are out. Avery would have 3 conference championships in the last 4 years if they are in all 1a conference
Put the best teams in the state tournament, and leave the bad teams at home period.
 
  • Like
Reactions: TD-FridayNight

CatDad312

Well-Known Member
Aug 8, 2018
237
286
63
I'm all for cutting back to 32 teams like it used to be...as it still should be. How to do that and achieve the most equitable result is beyond me though. It is near impossible to come up with a format that is perfect, so that is why I still favor the old format. I would also prefer it going back to 32 teams with all playoff games being held at neutral sites for sectionals and regionals. It just had more of a playoff feel to it. I agree that too many teams who shouldn't be there are there. I would also do away with wildcard spots for winning a tournament completely. That's not directed at Murphy this year, it is simply the way I've always felt.
 
Last edited:

btango

Well-Known Member
Nov 5, 2003
16,492
2,141
113
TD Friday, the schools voted to increase the number of teams. Had nothing to do with the NCHSAA. I see a continual pattern. Blame the NCHSAA for the number of teams and subdividing but it is the schools that want it. If the schools want something and the coaches, ADs, principals, and superintendents support the motion it is a done deal.

It is rumored that the schools will request that all team sports go to subdivided playoffs next school year. The NCHSAA is against it. I have attended all but three of the last thirty state basketball title games for boys 4A. If they subdivide I will no longer attend the sports championships other than football.
 

btango

Well-Known Member
Nov 5, 2003
16,492
2,141
113
The schools play three games the first week. Cutting from 64 teams to 32 would result in the season ending the same weekend. 48 teams would result in a bye for higher seeds and the lower seeds still playing three games the first week.
 

TD-FridayNight

Well-Known Member
Oct 28, 2015
2,181
938
113
Mayberry - RFD,NC
The schools play three games the first week. Cutting from 64 teams to 32 would result in the season ending the same weekend. 48 teams would result in a bye for higher seeds and the lower seeds still playing three games the first week.
Well, it does not really matter if it cuts back any at all but a cut back in these teams that do not deserve to be in the playoffs is like giving trophies to all the little league teams the way I see it and I explained my reasoning in the first post. This going from little league all the way through High School is teaching kids that they need to be rewarded for just playing and not having to earn their way to get to play in the playoffs when they do not have the players to do so. It gives them no drive to do better this year without the players they need to be a good enough team to win 50% or more of their games . Winning 1/4th of their games and can get to playoffs is BS. Question do they even want to travel like 9 hours round trip knowing they are going to get another loss and a long ride home just to make the NCHSAA more money and cost the school and most likely not even have any support show up to back them. I know I would not drive 9 hours round trip to watch a team get blown out of the gym when there is no dought that they will lose. Changes needed, no questions about it because it is just foolish to keep going down this same road every year and teams that should not be playing and traveling long distances getting in the playoffs....... Really that is all I have to say because it says it all. y'all carry on.
 
Last edited:

3daughters

Well-Known Member
Nov 30, 2006
2,173
193
63
Stop with the “little league” crap. All the kids need to be admired for busting their tails to play, especially those who do their best already knowing the eventual outcome. A lot of good things come out of those 9 hour round trips that you’re clueless about. Bush league comment.
 

TD-FridayNight

Well-Known Member
Oct 28, 2015
2,181
938
113
Mayberry - RFD,NC
Stop with the “little league” crap. All the kids need to be admired for busting their tails to play, especially those who do their best already knowing the eventual outcome. Bush league comment.
Give them all a trophy ? BS... That is what is wrong with the young generation now. They get something for nothing.... They need to earn what they get to appreciate it... Not much of a drive for a confidence builder for next year knowing they get a trophy , win or lose. BS.... And that is my only comment for you . People that think like you are the problem. Here I present you an unearned trophy for your comment. LOL :eek: .... You do everything you can to kill every thread I post. You are so jealous and can't start and participate in a thread of your own. And starting a scoring thread and not even posting a score doesn't count. You didn't even post your teams scores but I did on Sportsnut17's Thread. You are pathetic !
 
Last edited:

3daughters

Well-Known Member
Nov 30, 2006
2,173
193
63
Give them all a trophy ? BS... That is what is wrong with the young generation now. They get something for nothing.... They need to earn what they get to appreciate it... Not much of a drive for a confidence builder for next year knowing they get a trophy , win or lose. BS.... And that is my only comment for you . People that think like you are the problem. Here I present you an unearned trophy for your comment. LOL :eek: .... You do everything you can to kill every thread I post. You are so jealous and can't start and participate in a thread of your own. And starting a scoring thread and not even posting a score doesn't count. You didn't even post your teams scores but I did on Sportsnut17's Thread. You are pathetic !
Those kids work their asses off whether they win or lose. Disparaging high school kids because they lose on the court shows how clueless you are about these kids...you’re just a miserable old man
 
  • Like
Reactions: ncball04

recycled2

Well-Known Member
Feb 15, 2012
1,120
544
113
I'm all for cutting back to 32 teams like it used to be...as it still should be. How to do that and achieve the most equitable result is beyond me though. It is near impossible to come up with a format that is perfect, so that is I still favor the old format. I would also prefer it going back to 32 teams with all playoff games being held at neutral sites for sectionals and regionals. It just had more of a playoff feel to it. I agree that too many teams who shouldn't be there are there. I would also do away with wildcard spots for winning a tournament completely. That's not directed at Murphy this year, it is simply the way I've always felt.
I like the idea of 32 teams. However, I like letting the conference tournament champion in. It gives teams a reason to try to improve. Teams often have tough starts due to factors such as youth/inexperience, late start due to football or injuries.
 

PantherPit07

Well-Known Member
Aug 17, 2003
281
168
43
I like the idea of 32 teams. However, I like letting the conference tournament champion in. It gives teams a reason to try to improve. Teams often have tough starts due to factors such as youth/inexperience, late start due to football or injuries.
agreed they should get in just like NCAA does for Conference tournament winner
 
  • Like
Reactions: TD-FridayNight

survivor 1110

Well-Known Member
Feb 9, 2019
495
86
28
agreed they should get in just like NCAA does for Conference tournament winner
Look they cut it down to 48 teams last year in 1a, and look who sat at home, number 10 Avery girls and number 25 es boys. Punishing good teams in tough conferences. I didn't understand it last year and I don't understand it now. Put the teams with highest rankings in playoffs periods. Not only will it elimination bad teams, the best teams will be in playoffs.
S
 
  • Like
Reactions: TD-FridayNight

TD-FridayNight

Well-Known Member
Oct 28, 2015
2,181
938
113
Mayberry - RFD,NC
Those kids work their asses off whether they win or lose. Disparaging high school kids because they lose on the court shows how clueless you are about these kids...you’re just a miserable old man
I am just saying if they keep getting rewarded for losing then they will never figure out they need to play a little harder if they want that reward. It is better to learn while they are in school because they want get it in the real world and won't be able to keep a job expecting to keep the job because they are expecting promotions or raises for not doing their parental or best. And there you go with your personal attacks on me. At least I can start a thread and not just jump into one to attack someone. No win, no trophy ! Just ask these college kids how far they get or if they get rewarded for playing their asses off in the playoffs. Wake Forest, Georgia Tech & Boston College lost yesterday in the ACC tournament and they won't get a trophy. These kids have to be prepared for the real world. Now you can talk to the hand because I have nothing else to say to you. You want to teach kids they can get through this world getting something for nothing. So we can end our conversation here and agree to disagree.
 
Last edited:

CatDad312

Well-Known Member
Aug 8, 2018
237
286
63
I agree they let too many teams in, but IMO that isnt the biggest problem, 1A should be divided and the Private/Charter school should be in a different playoff bracket like most other states are
Good point Panther. ^^^This would remedy much of the problem. Charters, Parochials, and Preps should all fall under the umbrella of the NCISAA. That would cut the field tremendously, and even with a smaller field would help ensure that good teams in tough conferences don't get left out. Nothing is a cure-all, but this certainly would be the best solution
 

ESODcards

Well-Known Member
Nov 13, 2016
599
253
63
Those kids work their asses off whether they win or lose. Disparaging high school kids because they lose on the court shows how clueless you are about these kids...you’re just a miserable old man
Common you can’t honestly think participation trophies and handouts are a good thing.... I agree the bad teams should be left at home but they need to do away with the conference champions being seeded first there are conference winner that wouldn’t come in 3rd or 4th in the tougher conferences.
 

3daughters

Well-Known Member
Nov 30, 2006
2,173
193
63
Common you can’t honestly think participation trophies and handouts are a good thing.... I agree the bad teams should be left at home but they need to do away with the conference champions being seeded first there are conference winner that wouldn’t come in 3rd or 4th in the tougher conferences.
We’re talking about 16, 17 and 18 year olds, not 5 year olds getting participation trophies. When the miserable old man suggests these kids “need to play a little harder’ or that they “are not doing their best” it’s a moronic opinion. I’m sure his mt airy boys practiced and played at 100% and did their best, they just didn’t win. Kids playing their asses off to the best of their abilities knowing they’ve got little chance to win should be admired, not compared to little kids. It’s easy when winning, but many important life lessons are learned when you’re not winning. That’s what high school sports are about not some old geezers feelings sitting in his basement.

If you want to argue that the playoffs should be changed fine and dandy. But to say that kids doing their best and not quitting in the face of adversity (a great quality at any age) are the same as little kids getting participation trophies is nothing less than insulting to those great young people.
 

btango

Well-Known Member
Nov 5, 2003
16,492
2,141
113
Good point Panther. ^^^This would remedy much of the problem. Charters, Parochials, and Preps should all fall under the umbrella of the NCISAA. That would cut the field tremendously, and even with a smaller field would help ensure that good teams in tough conferences don't get left out. Nothing is a cure-all, but this certainly would be the best solution
Why would the NCISAA take the charter and magnet prep schools? Those are public schools that have zero tuition and open to the public. That is not going to happen.
 

btango

Well-Known Member
Nov 5, 2003
16,492
2,141
113
The issue is not only open enrollment magnets, charters, and the lone Parochial school but schools that allow students that do not live in the district to play sports at the school. This is an issue in 1A and no one wants to face it. There should be two divisions of 1A. Traditional and Non Traditional. If a school allows a student to play sports that does not live in the district they are Non Traditional. Only exception would be a senior that lived in the district through the first semester of their junior year and child of a teacher at the school. No "grandfathering" of siblings unless after that student graduates unless they are a rising senior. Do not move students for senior year as long as they are still allowed to attend they can participate that last season. I think that you would see most of the district public schools change their rules or several would get caught trying to circumvent the rules.
 
  • Like
Reactions: AHVikingNation

btango

Well-Known Member
Nov 5, 2003
16,492
2,141
113
For basketball I prefer to see more teams get in the playoffs. One game is the difference between 64 and 32. I agreed in football 1A should have had less teams and not 64 but in basketball I would go with 64. Tuesday, Thursday, and Saturday then onto regional play.

I think conference regular season champions and runnersup plus tournament champions should receive a guaranteed bid but all teams should be seeded by their Max Preps ranking. Way too much difference in level of play from conference to conference to guarantee a number one see in my opinion. Others will complain that you play who you play but in basketball it is not difficult to get in a tournament or a weekend classic to play strong competition. I know it is tougher for some teams that are remote but I think if a school is about it they can make it happen.
 

bulldog nation2014

Well-Known Member
Feb 21, 2014
2,512
617
113
That is true. But remember my Avery girls sitting at home last year when they cut it to 48 teams. They really could have used that playoff experience. If you are going to do that, throw out the conference finishes. Put the teams in by their rankings. That will make these cupcake teams like cherryville and Lincoln charter who won their conference and barely beat the worse team in the WHC, to play tougher non conference schedules to have a high enough ranking to get in playoffs. The way the system is now, too many good teams would be sitting at home if you cut the field down to 32 teams. Also, be done with the split conferences. Put teams with their own class, and don't have these stupid rules about if you don't finish this high in your conference, you are out. Avery would have 3 conference championships in the last 4 years if they are in all 1a conference
Under the current playoff format cut that to 48 teams and Avery would have been in it not only this year but last year as well.
 

bulldog nation2014

Well-Known Member
Feb 21, 2014
2,512
617
113
I think you will Always see regions simply because of the distances. Although from where for example Albemarle is 4.5 to Murphy 4.5 to Pamlico lol so it doesn’t matter but for a team Like Murphy to travel to pamlico is a ridiculous haul.
 

TD-FridayNight

Well-Known Member
Oct 28, 2015
2,181
938
113
Mayberry - RFD,NC
Why would the NCISAA take the charter and magnet prep schools? Those are public schools that have zero tuition and open to the public. That is not going to happen.
Bishop is a Private school and has no boundaries and came from the NCISAA in 2005 to the NCHSAA in the NWC and their girls won the 1A State Championship the first 9 years they were in the NCHSAA NWC every year from 2006 through 2014. They should be added to the Charters, Parochials, and Preps for their own playoffs. This is why he hates and gives me a rough time because I know all their advantages that he said all his kids attended Bishop. Their feeder schools are in Guilford & Forsyth Counties and players do not have to come from Catholic schools to attend. I wasn't going to go here but he keeps up with his personal attacks calling me a miserable old man because I am not allowed by him to post my opinion on giving everyone a trophy. As I said to him we can end our conversation here and agree to disagree. He is just a super rich old man that could afford to do what the majority of us could not do and that is put 3 daughters through Bishop at some college rates. Will he tell us those rates ? I know them and if is outrageous unless you are super rich. Y'all carry on, I can't have an opinion without his personal attacks. LOL :rolleyes::rolleyes:
 
  • Like
Reactions: PantherPit07

btango

Well-Known Member
Nov 5, 2003
16,492
2,141
113
TD, why did you quote my post?

In my response to requiring charters and magnets playing in the NCISAA I did not include Bishop because they are not a public school. I only referenced public schools.
 

btango

Well-Known Member
Nov 5, 2003
16,492
2,141
113
"Traditional" and "Non-traditional" would be just fine with me. Call it whatever, just as long as they're separate classifications.
Note, a regular public school may be required to play in the Non Traditional division.
 

TD-FridayNight

Well-Known Member
Oct 28, 2015
2,181
938
113
Mayberry - RFD,NC
TD, why did you quote my post?

In my response to requiring charters and magnets playing in the NCISAA I did not include Bishop because they are not a public school. I only referenced public schools.
You brought up the NCISAA and not many people know that is where Bishop came from. Sorry I did not even pay attention to who's post it was and it was the NCISAA that caught my attention.
 

survivor 1110

Well-Known Member
Feb 9, 2019
495
86
28
Common you can’t honestly think participation trophies and handouts are a good thing.... I agree the bad teams should be left at home but they need to do away with the conference champions being seeded first there are conference winner that wouldn’t come in 3rd or 4th in the tougher conferences.
Amen. Like Lincoln charter and almost getting beat by Polk, the last place team in the WHC. Also, cherryville a 13 seed an absolute joke. The nw1a have 3 good teams usually. The smc has 3 good teams usually. The WHC has 3 good teams usually. Definitely do not punish good 1a teams that have really good 2a teams in split conferences. We went 0-12 against mh last 4 years for a reason. Bigger school with more depth on their team. The rankings were pretty much right on in 1a girls this year. The top 4 were in final 8. Put the teams n playoffs by their rankings period. Avery finally got a final 4 red banner two years ago because they earned it not because they got a handout. They were bad when these seniors this year were freshmen, but they worked hard in off-season. And earned a regional finals trip the next year. What it is all about. Improvise, adapt, and overcome obstacles!!
 
  • Like
Reactions: AHVikingNation

survivor 1110

Well-Known Member
Feb 9, 2019
495
86
28
For basketball I prefer to see more teams get in the playoffs. One game is the difference between 64 and 32. I agreed in football 1A should have had less teams and not 64 but in basketball I would go with 64. Tuesday, Thursday, and Saturday then onto regional play.

I think conference regular season champions and runnersup plus tournament champions should receive a guaranteed bid but all teams should be seeded by their Max Preps ranking. Way too much difference in level of play from conference to conference to guarantee a number one see in my opinion. Others will complain that you play who you play but in basketball it is not difficult to get in a tournament or a weekend classic to play strong competition. I know it is tougher for some teams that are remote but I think if a school is about it they can make it happen.
Exactly you don't see pamlico playing west Forsyth, freedom, mh, central cabarrus, Pulaski va. These bigger schools that make you better in long run .The SOS says it all for the good western teams. You have to challenge yourselves and get your rear end handed to you to get better. Not playing weak teams that you beat by 20 or 30. Imo you can be as good as you want to be. Teams have better athletes and talent. But playing together, and playing team ball helps. When Avery girls started playing travel ball together in 6th grade. They were awful. But those whipping made them hungry to get better. They by no means have the best athletes, but when teams played them they knew they better come to play. Nobody gave them participation trophies, they just wanted to win.
 

btango

Well-Known Member
Nov 5, 2003
16,492
2,141
113
Mountain Heritage is a very good example of a basketball “team.” Fundamentally sound, well coached, high basketball iq.
 

Mavrick69

Well-Known Member
Feb 25, 2018
404
272
63
54
Burnsville NC
Exactly you don't see pamlico playing west Forsyth, freedom, mh, central cabarrus, Pulaski va. These bigger schools that make you better in long run .The SOS says it all for the good western teams. You have to challenge yourselves and get your rear end handed to you to get better. Not playing weak teams that you beat by 20 or 30. Imo you can be as good as you want to be. Teams have better athletes and talent. But playing together, and playing team ball helps. When Avery girls started playing travel ball together in 6th grade. They were awful. But those whipping made them hungry to get better. They by no means have the best athletes, but when teams played them they knew they better come to play. Nobody gave them participation trophies, they just wanted to win.
Ever thing you say is spot on Mt Heritage girls played a tough schedule and had good competition in conference play its no easy task beating Avery and Mitchell 3 times in one season the lady Cougars have been tested and beat some really good teams I just hope they don't come out flat vs Farmville and get behind to far I believe if the lady Cougars can keep it close going into 4th quarter they will win this game...
 

survivor 1110

Well-Known Member
Feb 9, 2019
495
86
28
Ever thing you say is spot on Mt Heritage girls played a tough schedule and had good competition in conference play its no easy task beating Avery and Mitchell 3 times in one season the lady Cougars have been tested and beat some really good teams I just hope they don't come out flat vs Farmville and get behind to far I believe if the lady Cougars can keep it close going into 4th quarter they will win this game...
Oh yea single digits and they will turn it on in 4th.
 

Latest posts