Charlotte Catholic vs Blessed Trinity

[bigdadd11103]

Why do we assume he is using logic? I stated earlier I’m sure his son was beaten by Catholic or maybe he was back in his day. He is filled with anger and hate. I’ll put him in the prayer intentions at mass this weekend. Poor fella.

Haven't used the word recruiting, anger, or hate. Those are words the Charlotte Catholic faithful have used. CC is a great school and a great community. Have never played or coached against them. Just offering my honest assessment of public vs. privates in sports. You are bringing hate to a conversation that many have, but are afraid to speak openly on.

-Studies have been conducted that show that private schools nationally win a disproportionate amount of state titles when compared to public schools. On average the athlete at a private school is much better than an athlete at a public school as they have access to better training, better coaching, better facilities, and better access to college resources. That's just a fact. You can't just count 4 and 5 star recruits when talking athletes. Across the board CC is more athletic than 95% of the teams they play. The other teams may have 1-2 stars that stick out but 1-50 CC is much more athletic.

 

[CatholicCougs14]

Haven't used the word recruiting, anger, or hate. Those are words the Charlotte Catholic faithful have used. CC is a great school and a great community. Have never played or coached against them. Just offering my honest assessment of public vs. privates in sports. You are bringing hate to a conversation that many have, but are afraid to speak openly on.

-Studies have been conducted that show that private schools nationally win a disproportionate amount of state titles when compared to public schools. On average the athlete at a private school is much better than an athlete at a public school as they have access to better training, better coaching, better facilities, and better access to college resources. That's just a fact. You can't just count 4 and 5 star recruits when talking athletes. Across the board CC is more athletic than 95% of the teams they play. The other teams may have 1-2 stars that stick out but 1-50 CC is much more athletic.

Obviously you never caught the trolling of my post.
Anyway, I think you should go check out Catholic’s weightroom sometime and compare it to public schools. It’s a small room compared to some of the new ones I’ve seen at Burns, Parkwood.
Facilities are never something Catholic has excelled at. Coach Oddo built this program playing home games in a stadium with no lockerrooms and all playoff games off campus due to lack of seating.
Catholic doesn’t allow kids to come in and transfer and play unless previous school signs a waiver. If that waiver isn’t signed, they sit 365 days.
This discussion is had every season. No post will change anyones mind. That much I do know.

 

[bigdadd11103]

Bigdadd, by your logic, the North Carolina School of the Arts and the North Carolina School of Science and Mathematics should be athletic powerhouses. High IQ and academic aptitude have little effect in determining the outcome of sports, especially football. A future chess grandmaster is not going to be able to block a 3 or 4 star athlete regardless of IQ and daddy's wealth unless he also happens to be a 3 or 4 star athlete.

Catholic does have two distinct advantages that are often overlooked. They have maintained a continuity of coaching with only two head coaches and little staff turnover since 1973. Charlotte Mecklenburg public schools, with few exceptions, are a coaching carrousel. They also have a Catholic middle school that acts as a feeder program. 6th, 7th and 8th graders grow up playing Catholic's offense and defense for 3 years together before they even arrive at the high school. An advantage one school towns in both North and South Carolina enjoy. Some of those towns control football down to the peewee level. Unfortunately for Catholic, many of these middle schoolers are cherry picked by the privates or simply go to the public schools because of financials. Financial aid is available for needy families but those participating in ANY sport are not to utilize it, an agreement with the NCHSAA. Good athletes with scholarship potential from Catholic families with modest incomes that may want to go there, may have no choice but to go elsewhere if they want to pursue college athletics.

Trying to draw deep conclusions about who they lose to is not going to shed much light either. They don't lose often. They lose to elite teams because they are willing to play elite teams. They do compete and win some of those games too. They often struggle to fill a schedule outside their conference. They play sound, disciplined, basic, fundamental football and don't often beat themselves. They beat many bigger, athletically superior teams because those teams simply make too many mistakes. They win a lot of close games but seldom do they overwhelm anyone. Their achilles heel is when they run into a team that is more athletically inclined and just as well coached and disciplined as they are. Blessed Trinity from Georgia was just such an example. Late round playoff games are another. Have they won 4 state championships in a row? Yes. However, every one of those games was in doubt until the final horn. No blowouts and one could argue that on paper, they didn't belong in any of those games.

So what's the solution? They already play up. They have small 3A numbers but are playing in the 4A. Do you punish them for being smaller, less athletically gifted but too disciplined and too intelligent? They can't recruit. They can't give scholarships based on athletics. Financial need is precluded if any student plays athletics. Do you now want to apply an IQ penalty or income penalty? If you really want to beat them, perhaps get better and learn to play sound football.

You cant mention an advantage in having a feeder middle school and not mention that they have no attendance boundary. I'd call that a huge advantage. Also add in no other football playing Catholic Schools except for Christ the King which is new to football and St. Anne Catholic School has not football. CC has had a monopoly on Catholic/south charlotte playing football players whereas public schools/coaches have to compete with changing boundaries, additional new high schools, fixed coaching stipends, and limited resources. I'd call that an advantage. Wont even list the other distinct advantages private schools have.

You mentioned the North Carolina School of the Arts and the North Carolina School of Science and Mathematics. That's a college that's not set up for sports.

To give you a better example you remember when WC had Abrams, Hardin, Knotts, McCollough, and White? The key to their success was having approx 60% higher educated Afro American families, that all sent their high academic, and highly athletic children to one highschool. The zipcodes were assigned as such that WC got the best neighborhoods from blacks and whites. There is a myth that athletes are dumb that has been perpetuated throughout time. The greater percentage of athletes are very good students academically and come from more affluent households. This trend has only increased as children dont play outside and more specialize in sports earlier in life. Poor parents aint paying for $40 an hour for training sessions, or $100 for a private coach. Or $1k for an AAU season. The affluent parents are. Basketball has just about become an exclusively affluent sport. Football is trending that way at a fast pace. Look at MC recently, Independence, Butler, Hough. Those parents pay the cost to be great. Once WC has zipcodes changed they fell off academically and then athletically. Private schools dont have zipcode changes. They dont have feeder school changes, they dont have boundary issues, they dont have low income family issues. They get the best of the best.

 

[Appvol]

Haven't used the word recruiting, anger, or hate. Those are words the Charlotte Catholic faithful have used. CC is a great school and a great community. Have never played or coached against them. Just offering my honest assessment of public vs. privates in sports. You are bringing hate to a conversation that many have, but are afraid to speak openly on.

-Studies have been conducted that show that private schools nationally win a disproportionate amount of state titles when compared to public schools. On average the athlete at a private school is much better than an athlete at a public school as they have access to better training, better coaching, better facilities, and better access to college resources. That's just a fact. You can't just count 4 and 5 star recruits when talking athletes. Across the board CC is more athletic than 95% of the teams they play. The other teams may have 1-2 stars that stick out but 1-50 CC is much more athletic.

See @CatholicCougs14 helps coach at CC so he isn’t going to like a different opinion on this subject.He is just going use words like hate, anger or CC must of beat you before to deflect from what you are posting about.

 

[bigdadd11103]

Obviously you never caught the trolling of my post.
Anyway, I think you should go check out Catholic’s weightroom sometime and compare it to public schools. It’s a small room compared to some of the new ones I’ve seen at Burns, Parkwood.
Facilities are never something Catholic has excelled at. Coach Oddo built this program playing home games in a stadium with no lockerrooms and all playoff games off campus due to lack of seating.
Catholic doesn’t allow kids to come in and transfer and play unless previous school signs a waiver. If that waiver isn’t signed, they sit 365 days.
This discussion is had every season. No post will change anyones mind. That much I do know.

You weren't trolling. You just got called out on your use of words. Just own it. Its CC people using their words out of anger instead of thinking about what I'm saying. You were ready to attack I've never spoken in anger or hate about CC. Never once.

By definition of private school, and public league they shouldn't be participating. You can have a 365 sit rule but when you already get a feeder middle school you are already supplied. Then anyone transferring would have to meet the attendance requirements.

I've been to CC for many games. Their school facilities are the best ive seen in a long time. Hell they even have a parking deck for students. What public school has that? Lets not compare facilities. If you are being genuine you wouldn't even mention facilities vs. a public school. Kefeer Stadium? Jack Hughes Field?

 

[mrhonda]

Bill passed senate keeps parochials in association and preserves NCHSAA

Good news.

 

[CatholicCougs14]

You weren't trolling. You just got called out on your use of words. Just own it. Its CC people using their words out of anger instead of thinking about what I'm saying. You were ready to attack I've never spoken in anger or hate about CC. Never once.

By definition of private school, and public league they shouldn't be participating. You can have a 365 sit rule but when you already get a feeder middle school you are already supplied. Then anyone transferring would have to meet the attendance requirements.

I've been to CC for many games. Their school facilities are the best ive seen in a long time. Hell they even have a parking deck for students. What public school has that? Lets not compare facilities. If you are being genuine you wouldn't even mention facilities vs. a public school. Kefeer Stadium? Jack Hughes Field?

Jack Hughes Field is rented. CC doesn’t own that.
Yes, I was trolling, learned from the best, footsoldier. Guess when you’re this good they cannot tell. I’ll pat myself on the back for that. Also, does 9am mass work for the intentions?

 

[CatholicCougs14]

See @CatholicCougs14 helps coach at CC so he isn’t going to like a different opinion on this subject.He is just going use words like hate, anger or CC must of beat you before to deflect from what you are posting about.

Ha! Don’t you have a job? I said get 100 followers on Twitter and I’ll block you after you flooded my inbox with odd garbage from who knows where.

 

[Appvol]

 

[Blue and Gold22]

You cant mention an advantage in having a feeder middle school and not mention that they have no attendance boundary. I'd call that a huge advantage. Also add in no other football playing Catholic Schools except for Christ the King which is new to football and St. Anne Catholic School has not football. CC has had a monopoly on Catholic/south charlotte playing football players whereas public schools/coaches have to compete with changing boundaries, additional new high schools, fixed coaching stipends, and limited resources. I'd call that an advantage. Wont even list the other distinct advantages private schools have.

You mentioned the North Carolina School of the Arts and the North Carolina School of Science and Mathematics. That's a college that's not set up for sports.

To give you a better example you remember when WC had Abrams, Hardin, Knotts, McCollough, and White? The key to their success was having approx 60% higher educated Afro American families, that all sent their high academic, and highly athletic children to one highschool. The zipcodes were assigned as such that WC got the best neighborhoods from blacks and whites. There is a myth that athletes are dumb that has been perpetuated throughout time. The greater percentage of athletes are very good students academically and come from more affluent households. This trend has only increased as children dont play outside and more specialize in sports earlier in life. Poor parents aint paying for $40 an hour for training sessions, or $100 for a private coach. Or $1k for an AAU season. The affluent parents are. Basketball has just about become an exclusively affluent sport. Football is trending that way at a fast pace. Look at MC recently, Independence, Butler, Hough. Those parents pay the cost to be great. Once WC has zipcodes changed they fell off academically and then athletically. Private schools dont have zipcode changes. They dont have feeder school changes, they dont have boundary issues, they dont have low income family issues. They get the best of the best.

So based on this argument your saying only certain zip codes in certain parts of the city have smart kids or fast/strong ones who jump high?

 

[Chopper747]

Bigdadd, by your logic, the North Carolina School of the Arts and the North Carolina School of Science and Mathematics should be athletic powerhouses. High IQ and academic aptitude have little effect in determining the outcome of sports, especially football. A future chess grandmaster is not going to be able to block a 3 or 4 star athlete regardless of IQ and daddy's wealth unless he also happens to be a 3 or 4 star athlete.

Catholic does have two distinct advantages that are often overlooked. They have maintained a continuity of coaching with only two head coaches and little staff turnover since 1973. Charlotte Mecklenburg public schools, with few exceptions, are a coaching carrousel. They also have a Catholic middle school that acts as a feeder program. 6th, 7th and 8th graders grow up playing Catholic's offense and defense for 3 years together before they even arrive at the high school. An advantage one school towns in both North and South Carolina enjoy. Some of those towns control football down to the peewee level. Unfortunately for Catholic, many of these middle schoolers are cherry picked by the privates or simply go to the public schools because of financials. Financial aid is available for needy families but those participating in ANY sport are not to utilize it, an agreement with the NCHSAA. Good athletes with scholarship potential from Catholic families with modest incomes that may want to go there, may have no choice but to go elsewhere if they want to pursue college athletics.

Trying to draw deep conclusions about who they lose to is not going to shed much light either. They don't lose often. They lose to elite teams because they are willing to play elite teams. They do compete and win some of those games too. They often struggle to fill a schedule outside their conference. They play sound, disciplined, basic, fundamental football and don't often beat themselves. They beat many bigger, athletically superior teams because those teams simply make too many mistakes. They win a lot of close games but seldom do they overwhelm anyone. Their achilles heel is when they run into a team that is more athletically inclined and just as well coached and disciplined as they are. Blessed Trinity from Georgia was just such an example. Late round playoff games are another. Have they won 4 state championships in a row? Yes. However, every one of those games was in doubt until the final horn. No blowouts and one could argue that on paper, they didn't belong in any of those games.

So what's the solution? They already play up. They have small 3A numbers but are playing in the 4A. Do you punish them for being smaller, less athletically gifted but too disciplined and too intelligent? They can't recruit. They can't give scholarships based on athletics. Financial need is precluded if any student plays athletics. Do you now want to apply an IQ penalty or income penalty? If you really want to beat them, perhaps get better and learn to play sound football.

I beg to differ. Smart football players/athletes are an advantage and contribute signifcantly to the outcome of the game, it's almost like having a coach or coaches on the field/court. They add significant value to the success of public and private schools alike. We've all seen this first hand. The concept goes beyond this thread of course.

 

[remotecougar]

Wont even mention how charter schools have decimated the 1A level of competition and how privates nationwide disproportionately win state titles over public schools. We wont mention privates in country club sports. Publics literally have no chance to compete.

Big DAD.. you need to do a little research of the difference of parochial school and private schools. Your demonstrating some basic ignorance in grouping them together as if they are the same. Also, don't assume that all Catholic schools are actual parochial schools. As far as your ignorance in the country club sports.. that is more of a function of cities where they have more country club type facilities. Hard to win a swimming championship when one area has great swim programs and the others areas have a pond to swim in. I will try not to mention your ignorance anymore while you take some time to educated yourself a little more.

 

[btango]

I do not understand why people compare Charlotte Catholic to private and other Parochial schools that offer free tuition and other incentives to lure in athletes including some that have boarding. I have found CC to be a true "community" school much more than the public high schools in Charlotte. Generations of families have attended and the students come up through the feeder system knowing where they will go to high school and all pulling for the same team. That is more like Richmond County than CMS.

St Thomas Aquinas is not even remotely similar to Charlotte Catholic. I have been to two of their football games and been to a practice there. One of their better teams brought in several rising seniors from public schools to fill the void of graduated players. They were not Catholic, had never been in the Catholic system, and attended school tuition free.

Playing 4A sports Catholic will hold their own but they will not run off titles in all the sports. Catholic has a lot of competition for students in the area, Weddington, Marvin Ridge, Ardrey Kell, Providence, and Myers Park are all high academic scoring publics and the Big 4 privates all located in the general area of Catholic are great schools.

One reason Cardinal Gibbons has an advantage is Raleigh is limited in private schools with powerhouse sports programs unlike south Charlotte.

 

[CCougarsfan]

First of all Bigdad's arguments have changed thru the years. We have debated this issue before on many forums and this is the first time I have seen that he has brought these arguments. Lets be clear, he has always hated that Catholic plays public schools and he has always said so, I am not sure he really believes what he says or is just going toward his bias.

Whenever anyone has asked me what Catholics advantages are I have always said the type of kid we have (Intelligent, disciplined and coachable) and the continuallity of the system (kids from 6th grade up playing the same system with the same guys with low to no coaching turnover). If his argument justifies those then his points are mostly correct. Catholic has academic and behavioral standards that just don't exist in public schools and if you don't meet both you won't be at Catholic.

The "wealth advantage" arguments just don't hold water at Catholic. Some of our facilities have been upgraded over the last ten years but our practice field is a joke. The rest of our training facilities can be called just ok even with the upgrades. Plain simple truth is Catholic gets its money from MACS (Mecklenburg Area Catholic Schools) and the Bishops and clergy involved in allocating the money have never shown any particular interest in football. Many of our students are on Tuition assistence from the diocese and NO ONE receiving assistance can play sports (per our agreement with NCHSAA). This results in kids and families having to decide if they want to stay and pay 10k plus year in full tuition to play or go to a local public or private school that will sponsor them ( we lose a lot of kids this way).

Summation do we have some advantages, yes. Do we have disadvantages, yes. Playing up a level do I think it is unfair to the Butlers, Mallard creeks, Chambers, Myers Parks, Houghs ect... of the world, Hell no. We have three power five football athletes the last 10 years I can think of (Harrell, Hood and Gagnon) so we sure aren't creating athletes with our wealth and training facilities like bagdad says. At least he finally came with a cognizant (if not entirely correct) argument instead of the normal "Catholic is cheating" BS.

 

[Blue and Gold22]

I went to HS at Mount Carmel ( Donovan Mcnabb, Simeon Rice etc,etc) in the Chicago Catholic league my frosh and soph years. I did not go to Catholic elementary school but played pop warner ( not sure if that is what we called it) in the local catholic league and several coaches from the Chicago Catholic league stood on the sidelines and actively recruited parents of the high level talent on those playing fields. My guess is 40-50% of the kids playing on the Mount Carmel freshman team in 1980 was from the south suburbs which in many cases was 50 miles from the Mount Carmel campus. Tuition was paid for and while I never saw any cash I was told it changed hands for the SUPER ELITE. This was a huge advantage but we only played one public school during the year and that was in the city championship. I think the Catholic school beat the public league school 23 straight years at one point. Most games were not competitive.

There was a point when I bought some of Big Dadds arguments and even today I would say having a consistent feeder program remains a competitive advantage. However- the landscape of HS athletics has changed so much over the past 10-15 years I think most of the advantages are minimal. The reality is that the elite talent in Meck County all flows into 2-3 schools and they ALL actively recruit far more than Charlotte Catholic does. I think Catholic will continue to win 9-10 games a year playing their schedule but the big transition for them will be a single 4a playoff division. Much tougher now than it was in 3a or even when they were 4a when it was split.

 

[bigdadd11103]

Big DAD.. you need to do a little research of the difference of parochial school and private schools. Your demonstrating some basic ignorance in grouping them together as if they are the same. Also, don't assume that all Catholic schools are actual parochial schools. As far as your ignorance in the country club sports.. that is more of a function of cities where they have more country club type facilities. Hard to win a swimming championship when one area has great swim programs and the others areas have a pond to swim in. I will try not to mention your ignorance anymore while you take some time to educated yourself a little more.

Clearly know what a Parochial School and a private school are. CC is a private school as it limits access to who can attend the school and has a special admissions process. The general student can not be assigned to CC by where they live or a certain academic program. They function privately separate from a local public school system. Thus they are a private school. Parochial just describes the type of private school. When you search for the best private schools in Charlotte CC comes up. When you google CC it comes up as a private school. When you go to the webpage it list tuition and the admissions process. You have to pay to attend. Its a PRIVATE SCHOOL. No need to state your basic ignorance as I'm stating facts, no emotion needed.

pri·vate school
/ˈprīvit sko͞ol/

noun

1. 1.
   NORTH AMERICAN
   a school supported by a private organization or private individuals rather than by the government.

• Tuition: $11,806 for participating Catholics and $16,881 for non-Catholics and non-participating Catholics. Admissions process

Charlotte Catholic description

Charlotte Catholic High School is a highly rated, private, Catholic school located in CHARLOTTE, NC. It has 1,245 students in grades 9-12 with a student-teacher ratio of 13 to 1. After graduation, 92% of students from this school go on to attend a 4-year college.

Newspaper Articles

Charlotte Catholic is a private school playing in a league of public schools. It’s geographic boundaries, though reined in a few years ago, are still much broader than its rivals. Catholic, for example, has had players on its sports teams from Rock Hill, Davidson, Fort Mill and Huntersville.

As far as country club sports you are making my point. They have a clear advantage based on their make up in Country Club sports. This advantage also extends to money making sports in Basketball and football.

 

[bigdadd11103]

I do not understand why people compare Charlotte Catholic to private and other Parochial schools that offer free tuition and other incentives to lure in athletes including some that have boarding. I have found CC to be a true "community" school much more than the public high schools in Charlotte. Generations of families have attended and the students come up through the feeder system knowing where they will go to high school and all pulling for the same team. That is more like Richmond County than CMS.

St Thomas Aquinas is not even remotely similar to Charlotte Catholic. I have been to two of their football games and been to a practice there. One of their better teams brought in several rising seniors from public schools to fill the void of graduated players. They were not Catholic, had never been in the Catholic system, and attended school tuition free.

Playing 4A sports Catholic will hold their own but they will not run off titles in all the sports. Catholic has a lot of competition for students in the area, Weddington, Marvin Ridge, Ardrey Kell, Providence, and Myers Park are all high academic scoring publics and the Big 4 privates all located in the general area of Catholic are great schools.

One reason Cardinal Gibbons has an advantage is Raleigh is limited in private schools with powerhouse sports programs unlike south Charlotte.

Btango. Always respect your opinion but have to disagree. To compare CC to RC is not quite accurate. RC while greatly community supported has ebbs and flows with player talent. They dont have the type of athlete and numbers of athletes they once had. They have lost jobs, races, and just commuter traffic that supported that area. Also Darryl Barnes was a great part of building that success. He may be a top 5 NC coach of all time IMHO. Some may point to 08. 08 may have been the worst state title winner in 4AA ever. Since then they have been down given their lofty standards. If not for the Hood bros RC would be struggling. Whereas CC gets high quality football players fed to them yearly that's independent of job creation, geographical boundaries, or other school competition for players.

 

[bigdadd11103]

I went to HS at Mount Carmel ( Donovan Mcnabb, Simeon Rice etc,etc) in the Chicago Catholic league my frosh and soph years. I did not go to Catholic elementary school but played pop warner ( not sure if that is what we called it) in the local catholic league and several coaches from the Chicago Catholic league stood on the sidelines and actively recruited parents of the high level talent on those playing fields. My guess is 40-50% of the kids playing on the Mount Carmel freshman team in 1980 was from the south suburbs which in many cases was 50 miles from the Mount Carmel campus. Tuition was paid for and while I never saw any cash I was told it changed hands for the SUPER ELITE. This was a huge advantage but we only played one public school during the year and that was in the city championship. I think the Catholic school beat the public league school 23 straight years at one point. Most games were not competitive.

There was a point when I bought some of Big Dadds arguments and even today I would say having a consistent feeder program remains a competitive advantage. However- the landscape of HS athletics has changed so much over the past 10-15 years I think most of the advantages are minimal. The reality is that the elite talent in Meck County all flows into 2-3 schools and they ALL actively recruit far more than Charlotte Catholic does. I think Catholic will continue to win 9-10 games a year playing their schedule but the big transition for them will be a single 4a playoff division. Much tougher now than it was in 3a or even when they were 4a when it was split.

Never said that Catholic recruits. The program recruits itself. But as you mentioned to act like those things dont happen between parents, supporters, and fans is delusional. The school itself/coaches dont have to actively recruit.

You say that the talent in Meck flows to 2-3 schools and I'd have to disagree. What people fail to realize is that most football transfers in Meck county are not high profile athletes but just average to below avg guys wanting to play. During its heyday West Charlotte, Indy, Butler, MC, and now Chambers routinely lost top quality players to lesser schools who just wanted to play on the field. These transfers are not noted or talked about. Thats why these programs take such hard dips once a top notch coach leaves, as the mid tier player wont attend the school or has already left. Chambers lost some high quality players, WC lost, MC lost high quality players, Harding lost players, AL Brown lost QB, WM lost guys and they didn;t go to big name highschools. They went to better situations just to play. Its a net negative. Its not 2-3 schools that get everyone. Thats a myth.

 

[Blue and Gold22]

Never said that Catholic recruits. The program recruits itself. But as you mentioned to act like those things dont happen between parents, supporters, and fans is delusional. The school itself/coaches dont have to actively recruit.

You say that the talent in Meck flows to 2-3 schools and I'd have to disagree. What people fail to realize is that most football transfers in Meck county are not high profile athletes but just average to below avg guys wanting to play. During its heyday West Charlotte, Indy, Butler, MC, and now Chambers routinely lost top quality players to lesser schools who just wanted to play on the field. These transfers are not noted or talked about. Thats why these programs take such hard dips once a top notch coach leaves, as the mid tier player wont attend the school or has already left. Chambers lost some high quality players, WC lost, MC lost high quality players, Harding lost players, AL Brown lost QB, WM lost guys and they didn;t go to big name highschools. They went to better situations just to play. Its a net negative. Its not 2-3 schools that get everyone. Thats a myth.

It doesnt take much to tip the scales especially when its addition for one/subtraction from someone else. 2 or 3 top tier guys leave one program and end up at another and it changes the competitive dynamic very quickly. From 2014-2019 MC got way more talent incoming than outgoing. This year they lost 5 maybe 6 of the top 8 kids in the program to direct competitors in Chambers and Butler.

Thats not a complaint. Thats just reality of the landscape in 2021.

 

[btango]

Btango. Always respect your opinion but have to disagree. To compare CC to RC is not quite accurate. RC while greatly community supported has ebbs and flows with player talent. They dont have the type of athlete and numbers of athletes they once had.

My reasoning for citing Richmond is the feeder system into one school from a large "community." Charlotte does not have that. I would say Catholic is the closest thing to a community school with continuity that we have.

 

[remotecougar]

Clearly know what a Parochial School and a private school are. CC is a private school as it limits access to who can attend the school and has a special admissions process. The general student can not be assigned to CC by where they live or a certain academic program. They function privately separate from a local public school system. Thus they are a private school. Parochial just describes the type of private school. When you search for the best private schools in Charlotte CC comes up. When you google CC it comes up as a private school. When you go to the webpage it list tuition and the admissions process. You have to pay to attend. Its a PRIVATE SCHOOL. No need to state your basic ignorance as I'm stating facts, no emotion needed.

Newspaper Articles

Charlotte Catholic is a private school playing in a league of public schools. It’s geographic boundaries, though reined in a few years ago, are still much broader than its rivals. Catholic, for example, has had players on its sports teams from Rock Hill, Davidson, Fort Mill and Huntersville.

As far as country club sports you are making my point. They have a clear advantage based on their make up in Country Club sports. This advantage also extends to money making sports in Basketball and football.

You are truly misguided and misinformed. You propose a perceived problem without any real basis ( your feelings don't count) and then prescribe a formula without any valid basis using a simpleton argument.

I am not arguing that most parochial schools are private schools in the strictest definition of the word, however surely you must know that the Catholic parochial school system is supported by parishes and not exclusively by tuition from those who attend the school. This is one distinct difference between a private school and a parochial schools.

Using your simpleton logic Catholics are Christians and thus should be lumped together no matter what differences their denominations have. I guess you can say the same things that Baptists and Methodists are Christians and their denominations must be lumped together as well.

Perhaps a more intensive desire for knowledge and understanding might expose a simpleton argument only sounds good when it supports your FEELINGS .. A bigger question is why does a person who attempts to convince everyone he is genuine and honest with a legitimate grievance not use valid facts and search for better information in order to understand their perceive issue. It is not my purpose to judge why you came to your conclusions, that is between you and the BIG guy upstairs but to point out the credibility gaps from you fabrications and spin.

The sports charters in many states (including North Carolina) include non boarding parochial schools with public schools. These educators know and understand that the parochial school system more closely resembles the public school system than a private school. For example, parochial school systems have feeder schools where kids start just like public school districts with an elementary schools and junior high schools. It appears your simpleton argument does not include this factual information and appears to make determinations based on HOW YOU FEEL versus any true basis as a reason for exclusion.

Let's illuminate your second point.. geographic boundaries..where you use sources like a newspaper not to mention your feelings) and seem to indicate they are qualified sources of accuracy. How scientific of you. Conventional wisdom might say your use of such sources to formulate an opinion is an incredibly poor process to determine any conclusion. NO worries as long as it supports HOW YOU FEEL

What empirical evidence do you have that says that student bodies with larger geographic boundaries have advantages? ... please something other than sources from Facebook, innuendos, newspapers that your personal opinion appears to be derived from. My assessment is that using this type of process leads to a search to support your FEELINGS rather than actually doing the hard work to understand the true elements that validates or provides a better understanding. Given your position any school (PUBLIC or PRIVATE ) with a larger geographic boundary would have an advantage.

It also appears that you also have overlooked how a parochial school student body is made up. You attempt to say that CCHS school cherry picks its students with no boundaries. This is a gross mischaracterization and speaks to your lack of credibility. As a factual matter, there are distinct differences between how the student body at a private school is composed and how the student body is composed at a parochial school. This is another reason that many states include parochial schools and public schools together in the sports charters.

CCHS has typically been made up of at least 90% Catholics. IN North Carolina as well as many southern states the % of Catholics in the states is very low. The population of North Carolina in the last census ( April 1 2020 Census, 10,439,388). The pew research centers say less than 9% is Catholic, however according to information for the diocese of Raleigh and Charlotte the number is about 6%. Whatever the number the Catholic denomination is the largest in the United States and in over half the states it is more than 20% of the population.

At the risk of asking anyone to do basic Math, ( it does run the risk of removing feelings from the equation) If the % of Catholics in North Carolina is 6-9 % of the population how much larger would the geographic area need to be in order to get at least 90% of the students from the Catholic population. Now that is an area larger than most would ever drive and then ( careful this is not simple) if you discount a multiple for the Catholics who are not going to Church or do not want to attend catholic school the area needed grows even larger.

One might ponder if you are aware that over the years many of the most talented football players at Holy Trinity Middle school have chosen to go to other schools. This year one of the most promising Freshman players who contributed heavily in the State championship last year is not at CCHS because he is in another school. Last year the starting QB from the previous year left and the year before we lost our best RB because his mom got a new job and the commute distance was too difficult and he transferred during the year. These are just factual references.

Has anyone every complained that CCHS fields the most talented football team. Should they have more talent given all of the geographic advantages you claim. There have been times when the program was not winning and during those times there were less restrictions. Unlike you most visitors do not say we have the nicest stadium but have a great following and the student body and alumni love to attend games and it makes for a great atmosphere. I guess you think that is a reason to exclude them. Many small towns share these values with their programs and it shows as they are always at the top of the heap in certain sports. Maybe we should exclude them as well.

I have yet to see any legitimate information beyond, IMO or I feel about your boundary argument. No outcomes based research from any valid source, yet BIG DADDY wants to want to exclude a few schools and say that is an issue based on BIG DADDies FEELINGS. I hate to break it to you.. your not solving any real problem, but probably lowering standards and perhaps creating a few more new problems.

If your boundary argument actually had some basis other then IMO or how you feel then how to you balance a remedy on all the schools in the State. Instead you seem to advocate only a remedy for schools that are reflected in your opinion.

FOR THE RECORD, I did not confirm your position about Country club sports. How you concluded such nonsense is beyond comprehension. My statement was If you live in Charlotte or Raleigh you have an advantage because in these areas kids get to swim in a pool where other paces that get to swim in a pond. All I can surmise from your opinion is because CCHS is located in this area makes them solely accountable as the only school in the area who has kids that start playing country club sports at an early age. According to your Logic this supports that CCHS is at fault and therefore according to HOW YOU FEEL there must be a remedy.

As far as your assumptions about our facilities and how they are so much better than anyone else... your lack of credibility is on display, DID you check out our new baseball field, how about our multiple practice fields, and our new swimming pool..let me know when you find them. Being land locked without much parking, a parking garage was a necessity for the student body..not football, and therefore we don't' have many other things. I guess we must pay our teachers better than the public schools as well. BTW you did know if you kids attends a parochial school you don't have to pay taxes for Public Schools... I heard that from the same sources you get your information from.

 

[-COUNTRY-CLUB-JOE-]

Holy hell what a post lol

 

[bigdadd11103]

You are truly misguided and misinformed. You propose a perceived problem without any real basis ( your feelings don't count) and then prescribe a formula without any valid basis using a simpleton argument.

I am not arguing that most parochial schools are private schools in the strictest definition of the word, however surely you must know that the Catholic parochial school system is supported by parishes and not exclusively by tuition from those who attend the school. This is one distinct difference between a private school and a parochial schools.

Using your simpleton logic Catholics are Christians and thus should be lumped together no matter what differences their denominations have. I guess you can say the same things that Baptists and Methodists are Christians and their denominations must be lumped together as well.

Perhaps a more intensive desire for knowledge and understanding might expose a simpleton argument only sounds good when it supports your FEELINGS .. A bigger question is why does a person who attempts to convince everyone he is genuine and honest with a legitimate grievance not use valid facts and search for better information in order to understand their perceive issue. It is not my purpose to judge why you came to your conclusions, that is between you and the BIG guy upstairs but to point out the credibility gaps from you fabrications and spin.

The sports charters in many states (including North Carolina) include non boarding parochial schools with public schools. These educators know and understand that the parochial school system more closely resembles the public school system than a private school. For example, parochial school systems have feeder schools where kids start just like public school districts with an elementary schools and junior high schools. It appears your simpleton argument does not include this factual information and appears to make determinations based on HOW YOU FEEL versus any true basis as a reason for exclusion.

Let's illuminate your second point.. geographic boundaries..where you use sources like a newspaper not to mention your feelings) and seem to indicate they are qualified sources of accuracy. How scientific of you. Conventional wisdom might say your use of such sources to formulate an opinion is an incredibly poor process to determine any conclusion. NO worries as long as it supports HOW YOU FEEL

What empirical evidence do you have that says that student bodies with larger geographic boundaries have advantages? ... please something other than sources from Facebook, innuendos, newspapers that your personal opinion appears to be derived from. My assessment is that using this type of process leads to a search to support your FEELINGS rather than actually doing the hard work to understand the true elements that validates or provides a better understanding. Given your position any school (PUBLIC or PRIVATE ) with a larger geographic boundary would have an advantage.

It also appears that you also have overlooked how a parochial school student body is made up. You attempt to say that CCHS school cherry picks its students with no boundaries. This is a gross mischaracterization and speaks to your lack of credibility. As a factual matter, there are distinct differences between how the student body at a private school is composed and how the student body is composed at a parochial school. This is another reason that many states include parochial schools and public schools together in the sports charters.

CCHS has typically been made up of at least 90% Catholics. IN North Carolina as well as many southern states the % of Catholics in the states is very low. The population of North Carolina in the last census ( April 1 2020 Census, 10,439,388). The pew research centers say less than 9% is Catholic, however according to information for the diocese of Raleigh and Charlotte the number is about 6%. Whatever the number the Catholic denomination is the largest in the United States and in over half the states it is more than 20% of the population.

At the risk of asking anyone to do basic Math, ( it does run the risk of removing feelings from the equation) If the % of Catholics in North Carolina is 6-9 % of the population how much larger would the geographic area need to be in order to get at least 90% of the students from the Catholic population. Now that is an area larger than most would ever drive and then ( careful this is not simple) if you discount a multiple for the Catholics who are not going to Church or do not want to attend catholic school the area needed grows even larger.

One might ponder if you are aware that over the years many of the most talented football players at Holy Trinity Middle school have chosen to go to other schools. This year one of the most promising Freshman players who contributed heavily in the State championship last year is not at CCHS because he is in another school. Last year the starting QB from the previous year left and the year before we lost our best RB because his mom got a new job and the commute distance was too difficult and he transferred during the year. These are just factual references.

Has anyone every complained that CCHS fields the most talented football team. Should they have more talent given all of the geographic advantages you claim. There have been times when the program was not winning and during those times there were less restrictions. Unlike you most visitors do not say we have the nicest stadium but have a great following and the student body and alumni love to attend games and it makes for a great atmosphere. I guess you think that is a reason to exclude them. Many small towns share these values with their programs and it shows as they are always at the top of the heap in certain sports. Maybe we should exclude them as well.

I have yet to see any legitimate information beyond, IMO or I feel about your boundary argument. No outcomes based research from any valid source, yet BIG DADDY wants to want to exclude a few schools and say that is an issue based on BIG DADDies FEELINGS. I hate to break it to you.. your not solving any real problem, but probably lowering standards and perhaps creating a few more new problems.

If your boundary argument actually had some basis other then IMO or how you feel then how to you balance a remedy on all the schools in the State. Instead you seem to advocate only a remedy for schools that are reflected in your opinion.

FOR THE RECORD, I did not confirm your position about Country club sports. How you concluded such nonsense is beyond comprehension. My statement was If you live in Charlotte or Raleigh you have an advantage because in these areas kids get to swim in a pool where other paces that get to swim in a pond. All I can surmise from your opinion is because CCHS is located in this area makes them solely accountable as the only school in the area who has kids that start playing country club sports at an early age. According to your Logic this supports that CCHS is at fault and therefore according to HOW YOU FEEL there must be a remedy.

As far as your assumptions about our facilities and how they are so much better than anyone else... your lack of credibility is on display, DID you check out our new baseball field, how about our multiple practice fields, and our new swimming pool..let me know when you find them. Being land locked without much parking, a parking garage was a necessity for the student body..not football, and therefore we don't' have many other things. I guess we must pay our teachers better than the public schools as well. BTW you did know if you kids attends a parochial school you don't have to pay taxes for Public Schools... I heard that from the same sources you get your information from.

You typed a bunch of feelings. CC is a private school. You said it wasnt initially until I showed info that noted CC is in fact a private school. If Ive always said privates should play in private leagues. No change. No hate and no ill feelings towards CC. This applies for McGuiness, CG, CC and other charter schools.

If the general student cant attend the school then it shouldn't be in a league of public general admission schools. During the last vote the great majority voted to have CC out. Had it not been for schools that abstained they would be gone so im not alone in my feelings. Private/charter schools want to play in public leagues as its easier to find games and win. At one point CC dominated womens sports to the point it wasnt even worth competing. Everyone saw the advantages but when it comes to football everyone turns a blind eye. Having no boundaries, and restrictions to student enrollment are direct benefits. If it wasnt they wouldnt have to have been limited to 25 miles, 365 sit out, move up a class etc etc. Its not fair and those restrictions were placed to try and balance an unfair situation. Lets privates play privates. Public play public.

 

[Hog_1982]

Bigdadd11103

Good thing it’s not your decision to make. You’re bringing up old arguments that have been addressed and rebuke just to fill the page with content (Diarrhea of the pen). Just face it, you’re either a disgruntle relative of an past opponent or a SJW.

 

[ForsythCo]

I see both arguments. Charlotte Catholic is a private school. They are, there's no getting around it. They have a feeder school as well. The parents are generally more well off and can dedicate more time into their studies and sports. Also Charter schools (which CC is not) have ruined 1A basketball for regular schools. With that being said, I do think what we have now (in football at least) is a healthy medium. CC plays in the 4A. This is the best of the best in the state of NC. I just don't think they have a competitive advantage in this division.

A lot of people don't know Forsyth County has open enrollment. Theoretically, a large group of people can decide to all go to one school and play for any football team without moving. I would think there's a competitive advantage there, but in general people don't care about it.

 

[remotecougar]

Sorry Big Daddy.. You have provided nothing valid to support your opinion. When you do please let us know.

I do agree with one thing from your last post. I did post about feelings: YOUR FEELINGS which you seem to confuse as anything remotely resembling a fact or basis that supports you opinion.

I just gave you some basic facts. They are not in dispute nor have you provided any contrary evidence to them.

You have failed to substantiate anything to support boundaries providing advantage or acknowledge the fact that publics schools have different size boundaries.

You have failed to demonstrate you understand any of the realities that differentiate private and parochial schools. Let's not allow some quality information into the discussion... that would ruin your simpleton thoughts.

After reading your last post it is clear that you are not only inconsistent in the application of basic logic but total selective in applying your opinion. Until you can provide some reasonable basis it will be hard to take you seriously.

You should go back to Chicago and watch those 28 catholic teams in the five collar counties play some more ball and talk about all the scholarship money they give away. Your opinions and feelings will have just as much credibility in thesee circles.

 

[ForsythCo]

I've just never watched Charlotte Catholic play and thought to myself "they're unbeatable". Back in 2016 when they beat East Forsyth to play Dudley in the regional I never got the impression that they were this unbeatable team. They just made way fewer mistakes than EF did. Both running backs for CC and EF that game were damn near unstoppable. But they ran into a Dudley team with a defense that was ready for him.

 

[jojr01]

You typed a bunch of feelings. CC is a private school. You said it wasnt initially until I showed info that noted CC is in fact a private school. If Ive always said privates should play in private leagues. No change. No hate and no ill feelings towards CC. This applies for McGuiness, CG, CC and other charter schools.
If the general student cant attend the school then it shouldn't be in a league of public general admission schools. During the last vote the great majority voted to have CC out. Had it not been for schools that abstained they would be gone so im not alone in my feelings. Private/charter schools want to play in public leagues as its easier to find games and win. At one point CC dominated womens sports to the point it wasnt even worth competing. Everyone saw the advantages but when it comes to football everyone turns a blind eye. Having no boundaries, and restrictions to student enrollment are direct benefits. If it wasnt they wouldnt have to have been limited to 25 miles, 365 sit out, move up a class etc etc. Its not fair and those restrictions were placed to try and balance an unfair situation. Lets privates play privates. Public play public.

Let's distill this down bigdad. You simply don't don't want Catholic in the NCHSAA playing with the public schools and you will trot out whatever misinformation and contorted logic serves your purpose at a point in time. Let's take the issue that they are different off the table. There are some differences and they generate both advantages and disadvantages. When Catholic originally petitioned to join the NCHSAA, they were willing to accept whatever rules were applied to account for those differences and have adhered to them without exception. During the early years, they were a football doormat and on everyone's homecoming schedule. No one complained then. A guaranteed win. Since 1973, they have been the beneficiary of two hall of fame worthy coaches, one still there.

Regarding feeder schools, some schools in the states of NC and SC know where their student body is coming from years before they are high school students. Smart athletic departments take advantage of this. (Nothing like a Crest poster salivating over a peewee team that will be the class of 2026.) No one will argue that the Charlotte Mecklenburg system organizes their middle and high schools to facilitate continuity and support athletics. Quite the opposite. They are constantly chasing ever changing public policy goals and some of the leadership has been openly antagonistic to high school athletics in general. Catholic and other public high schools use this to their advantage as best they can. Should they be punished for being smart?

Arguing that Catholic dominated women's sports, has better facilities and more resources, that too is absolute misinformation. They dominated girls swimming. Maybe due to their high tech, state of the art swimming facilities...which don't exist. SwimMAC, one of the more elite programs in the country, is just down the street. The long time director of that program sent his kids to Catholic. Several other accomplished swimmers from SwimMAC also went to Catholic. A team with 4-6 elite swimmers will easily dominate a team of 70 mediocre swimmers. Who is dominating swimming today in NC today? Ardrey Kell and Lake Norman. Why? Their student bodies currently have several elite swimmers from year round programs. Catholic's girls soccer and tennis team have won a couple of state championships and are always competitive. Beyond that, track, basketball, lacrosse, soft ball... not so much. The school doesn't have a track, no practice fields, much less game fields either but they do field teams in those sports. The football field is also the soccer field, the lacrosse field, the rugby field and on some Saturdays, where the middle school football teams play. And guess where the band wants to practice?

Stick to facts and logic. Your posts will become much less voluminous and lose most of the self generated steam.

 

[84k]

Where do they play their home baseball games at.

 

[jojr01]

I've just never watched Charlotte Catholic play and thought to myself "they're unbeatable". Back in 2016 when they beat East Forsyth to play Dudley in the regional I never got the impression that they were this unbeatable team. They just made way fewer mistakes than EF did. Both running backs for CC and EF that game were damn near unstoppable. But they ran into a Dudley team with a defense that was ready for him.

Nice post. You highlighted one of the key advantages for Catholic. They don't make many mistakes. Years ago, someone posted that they don't pass the eye test and intimate anyone getting off the bus. They look more like a group of NASA interns, not a football team. They do play hard and they do utilize a system that frustrates many teams. Regarding Dudley. They have played Dudley 4 times over the years that I can recall, including one State Championship game. All were close, knock down drag out games but Dudley won three and highlights Catholic's true achilles heel. When they run into a team that is bigger, more athletic and just as well coached and disciplined, they have problems. Credit Coach Davis at Dudley. He is a treasure at that school and his teams are every bit as well coached and disciplined as anyone in the state.

 

[nepsy7]

Nice post. You highlighted one of the key advantages for Catholic. They don't make many mistakes. Years ago, someone posted that they don't pass the eye test and intimate anyone getting off the bus. They look more like a group of NASA interns, not a football team. They do play hard and they do utilize a system that frustrates many teams. Regarding Dudley. They have played Dudley 4 times over the years that I can recall, including one State Championship game. All were close, knock down drag out games but Dudley won three and highlights Catholic's true achilles heel. When they run into a team that is bigger, more athletic and just as well coached and disciplined, they have problems. Credit Coach Davis at Dudley. He is a treasure at that school and his teams are every bit as well coached and disciplined as anyone in the state.

That was my post! I know a couple of CC coaches, I’ve Kidd for year’s, about the NASA intern analogy. Teams laugh when they get off the Bus. because they’re not intimidating with size. By time you figure out they can ball. It’s to late! 🤷🏾‍♂️ My personal opinion. They just don’t get the Jimmy & Joe’s coming in that give them an advantage. It has more to do with how they start developing kids early.

 

[bigdadd11103]

When I stick to facts you all change the discussion and try to make it personal. So I'll lay it out again in its most simplest forms.

1. Boundary. The 25 mile geographical boundary which is new as it previously had no boundary. The typical Charlotte public high school has a geographical reach of only 5 miles or less on average and they typically border 4-5 other public high schools. This creates increased competition for families. If a family has to move in charlotte then they likely have to change highschools. These boundaries also change routinely whereas the CC boundary never changes. If CC had a 5 mile radius like typical high schools then they would truly have to compete with the southern Charlotte schools for players. But because their boundary is so large they dont have to worry about changing boundaries, parents moving within the county, or typical residency issues that public high schools have to deal with. Imagine Chambers being able to get any child in Mecklenburg County with no residency issue? 25 miles and Mecklenburg county. This goes into SC, Lancaster, York, Fort Mill, and Union Counties. In Raleigh it gives Cardinal Gibbons 8 Counties to pull from with a 25 mile radius, and Wake County. Now tell me this isn't an advantage?

2. Selective admissions. The parochial and charter private schools can limit who attends the school thus creating a streamlined flow of students that can be controlled. Public schools have to accept anyone. You can say families have to pay, and there is no recruiting, and no scholarships. But they have a direct feeder middle school and youth ball programs, and youth sports that feed directly into CC. They know who can play what sports and how well they play before they enroll at the school. They know who is smart and can handle the academics before they enroll in school. They also offer tuition assistance for those that qualify.

CMS did a survey a few years back that directly attributed high poverty schools with low academic success. This also trends in sports too. The highest poverty schools tended to have far less sports success also. IE West Charlotte, Garinger, East Meck, Harding, POB, Vance, WM. You may see a great team here or there but overall they all are very poor in ALL sports overall. The low income level at these schools goes as high as 80% of the student population. These are public school issues that private, Parochial, and Charter schools dont have to deal with. There is a direct correlation between income, academics, and athletics success.

-If these Parochial schools were mandated to accept even 40% low income students from the general population and send their 40% high income to a public school do you think they would have the same academic, and athletic success? The answer is NO. Even if the coaches remained the same , facilities the same, teachers the same they would not have that success. By being private and selective they can weed out the weaker less productive student while selecting the more beneficial student. CC is almost 85% high income families = better training, better coaching, less behavioral issues. Its the Gideon effect. They get better athletes.



3. Competitive unbalance. Because of the reasons mentioned above it creates a competitive disadvantage that's not due to coaching, or working hard. Its due to having better athletes. Families choose private, charter and Parochial schools with sports as a big reason.

EXHIBIT A.

Since 2005 Cardinal Gibbons has won 78 state titles across various sports. I repeat 78.

Since 2000 Charlotte Catholic has won nearly 70 state titles across various sports.

The typical NC high school may have won 1 maybe 2, at max 5 state championships total in that time frame. CC and CG have nearly 150 by themselves between two schools. Let that sink in. You cant just look at football. Look at it all.

Bishop McGuiness won 9 girls state championships from 06 to 14. Overall the next top school is Bandys at 6. So BM girls got more state titles in a 9 year period than most schools in their history of existence. Not to mention multiple mens championships in various sports.

In PA, Coaches wanted non Boundary private schools out. Alabama did a study that found that private schools had a 35% more chance of a student playing a sport than public schools so a multiplier had to be added. Arkansas a multiplier added.

Hell in Missouri and Arkansas a suit was filed and it found the same results that I mentioned above. The Pulaski County Circuit Court denied the motion after citing 12 differences between public and private schools in its findings of fact: private schools have higher participation rates (citing the Alabama study), are not required to educate handicapped and developmentally disabled students, have higher parental involvement rates, have the ability to attract foreign students under different conditions, are not required to limit extracurricular activities to only one period per day, do not have boundaries, do not have salary limits on coaches and are not required to publish the salaries, have no budget restraints on facilities, have won state championships at a higher percentage rate, do not have English as a second language students who are less likely to participate, have the ability to cap enrollment, and have the ability of their students to practice at summer workouts while public schools could not.

In Washington state private schools won 17 of 19 state championships in girls soccer. Private schools dominated at every classification level.

In Ohio they had a review by the OHSAA that showed they had 700(84%) public high schools, and 131(16%) non public high schools. From 1999 there were 616 state championships with private non-public schools winning 275 or 45%.

Breaking this down, it looks like this:
Football—66 state championships—31 (47%) won by non-public schools
Volleyball—44 state championships—28 (63%) won by non-public schools
Boys Soccer—33 state championships—15 (45%) won by non-public schools
Girls Soccer—22 state championships—11 (50%) won by non-public schools
Boys Basketball—44 state championships—14 (31%) won by non-public schools
Girls Basketball—44 state championships—23 (52%) won by non-public schools
Wrestling—30 state championships—21 (70%) won by non-public schools
Baseball—40 state championships—20 (50%) won by non-public schools
Softball—40 state championships—3 (1%) won by non-public schools

 

[CatholicCougs14]

When I stick to facts you all change the discussion and try to make it personal. So I'll lay it out again in its most simplest forms.

1. Boundary. The 25 mile geographical boundary which is new as it previously had no boundary. The typical Charlotte public high school has a geographical reach of only 5 miles or less on average and they typically border 4-5 other public high schools. This creates increased competition for families. If a family has to move in charlotte then they likely have to change highschools. These boundaries also change routinely whereas the CC boundary never changes. If CC had a 5 mile radius like typical high schools then they would truly have to compete with the southern Charlotte schools for players. But because their boundary is so large they dont have to worry about changing boundaries, parents moving within the county, or typical residency issues that public high schools have to deal with. Imagine Chambers being able to get any child in Mecklenburg County with no residency issue? 25 miles and Mecklenburg county. This goes into SC, Lancaster, York, Fort Mill, and Union Counties. In Raleigh it gives Cardinal Gibbons 8 Counties to pull from with a 25 mile radius, and Wake County. Now tell me this isn't an advantage?

2. Selective admissions. The parochial and charter private schools can limit who attends the school thus creating a streamlined flow of students that can be controlled. Public schools have to accept anyone. You can say families have to pay, and there is no recruiting, and no scholarships. But they have a direct feeder middle school and youth ball programs, and youth sports that feed directly into CC. They know who can play what sports and how well they play before they enroll at the school. They know who is smart and can handle the academics before they enroll in school. They also offer tuition assistance for those that qualify.

CMS did a survey a few years back that directly attributed high poverty schools with low academic success. This also trends in sports too. The highest poverty schools tended to have far less sports success also. IE West Charlotte, Garinger, East Meck, Harding, POB, Vance, WM. You may see a great team here or there but overall they all are very poor in ALL sports overall. The low income level at these schools goes as high as 80% of the student population. These are public school issues that private, Parochial, and Charter schools dont have to deal with. There is a direct correlation between income, academics, and athletics success.

-If these Parochial schools were mandated to accept even 40% low income students from the general population and send their 40% high income to a public school do you think they would have the same academic, and athletic success? The answer is NO. Even if the coaches remained the same , facilities the same, teachers the same they would not have that success. By being private and selective they can weed out the weaker less productive student while selecting the more beneficial student. CC is almost 85% high income families = better training, better coaching, less behavioral issues. Its the Gideon effect. They get better athletes.



3. Competitive unbalance. Because of the reasons mentioned above it creates a competitive disadvantage that's not due to coaching, or working hard. Its due to having better athletes. Families choose private, charter and Parochial schools with sports as a big reason.

EXHIBIT A.

Since 2005 Cardinal Gibbons has won 78 state titles across various sports. I repeat 78.

Since 2000 Charlotte Catholic has won nearly 70 state titles across various sports.

The typical NC high school may have won 1 maybe 2, at max 5 state championships total in that time frame. CC and CG have nearly 150 by themselves between two schools. Let that sink in. You cant just look at football. Look at it all.

Bishop McGuiness won 9 girls state championships from 06 to 14. Overall the next top school is Bandys at 6. So BM girls got more state titles in a 9 year period than most schools in their history of existence. Not to mention multiple mens championships in various sports.

In PA, Coaches wanted non Boundary private schools out. Alabama did a study that found that private schools had a 35% more chance of a student playing a sport than public schools so a multiplier had to be added. Arkansas a multiplier added.

Hell in Missouri and Arkansas a suit was filed and it found the same results that I mentioned above. The Pulaski County Circuit Court denied the motion after citing 12 differences between public and private schools in its findings of fact: private schools have higher participation rates (citing the Alabama study), are not required to educate handicapped and developmentally disabled students, have higher parental involvement rates, have the ability to attract foreign students under different conditions, are not required to limit extracurricular activities to only one period per day, do not have boundaries, do not have salary limits on coaches and are not required to publish the salaries, have no budget restraints on facilities, have won state championships at a higher percentage rate, do not have English as a second language students who are less likely to participate, have the ability to cap enrollment, and have the ability of their students to practice at summer workouts while public schools could not.

In Washington state private schools won 17 of 19 state championships in girls soccer. Private schools dominated at every classification level.

In Ohio they had a review by the OHSAA that showed they had 700(84%) public high schools, and 131(16%) non public high schools. From 1999 there were 616 state championships with private non-public schools winning 275 or 45%.

Breaking this down, it looks like this:
Football—66 state championships—31 (47%) won by non-public schools
Volleyball—44 state championships—28 (63%) won by non-public schools
Boys Soccer—33 state championships—15 (45%) won by non-public schools
Girls Soccer—22 state championships—11 (50%) won by non-public schools
Boys Basketball—44 state championships—14 (31%) won by non-public schools
Girls Basketball—44 state championships—23 (52%) won by non-public schools
Wrestling—30 state championships—21 (70%) won by non-public schools
Baseball—40 state championships—20 (50%) won by non-public schools
Softball—40 state championships—3 (1%) won by non-public schools

For the record, MACS(Mecklenburg Area Catholic Schools) has a great program whare students with disabilities learn and come to school. It’s a great part of the school and it’s a program that is growing so cut that crap.
Also, the boundary is not new, it was put in in 2012, nearly a decade ago.
As some posters on here have said, who cares what other states do? What’s best for them is not necessarily best for NC.
Ohio has tons and tons of Catholic schools, NC has 5 total that play sports(JP II out in Greenville is independent). Much different landscape.

 

[remotecougar]

Again BIG DOG if you dig a little deeper into the information you presented you just might find out how little you know... Conventional Wisdom says it is easier to be myopic when you have a cause. Your exposed, enough said, Now let's get back to football and enjoying the season.

However, just to let you know there are no hard feelings,. let me be the first to award you a participation trophy for all of your efforts and suggest you be given imediate Hall of Fame status for the "I am a mile wide and inch deep with knowledge club". I am sure you can add this to your other participation trophies. With this award you will be in company with others just like you...

 

[bigdadd11103]

For the record, MACS(Mecklenburg Area Catholic Schools) has a great program whare students with disabilities learn and come to school. It’s a great part of the school and it’s a program that is growing so cut that crap.
Also, the boundary is not new, it was put in in 2012, nearly a decade ago.
As some posters on here have said, who cares what other states do? What’s best for them is not necessarily best for NC.
Ohio has tons and tons of Catholic schools, NC has 5 total that play sports(JP II out in Greenville is independent). Much different landscape.

Again you wont touch on the boundary that goes into other states or competitive imbalance. The student populations are completely different than a public school. U have a few student challenges where public schools have the great majority of them. Other states are dealing with the same issues. You telling me that every private school in all these states just happen to all work hard, have the best coaches, best discipline? Families go to these schools to play sports. Explain the competitive discrepancies across states? Not just NC. Explain how two schools have won almost 150 state championships in less than 20 years. Dont deflect explain.....

 

[bigdadd11103]

Again BIG DOG if you dig a little deeper into the information you presented you just might find out how little you know... Conventional Wisdom says it is easier to be myopic when you have a cause. Your exposed, enough said, Now let's get back to football and enjoying the season.

However, just to let you know there are no hard feelings,. let me be the first to award you a participation trophy for all of your efforts and suggest you be given imediate Hall of Fame status for the "I am a mile wide and inch deep with knowledge club". I am sure you can add this to your other participation trophies. With this award you will be in company with others just like you...

Again you all wont discuss the numbers/issues. No feelings. How can 2 schools win 150 state championships in 20 years across multiple sports? Explain to me the secret and tell me how the student body make up and no boundaries has no effect. Dont deflect. Tell us the secret to this success

 

[jojr01]

That was my post! I know a couple of CC coaches, I’ve Kidd for year’s, about the NASA intern analogy. Teams laugh when they get off the Bus. because they’re not intimidating with size. By time you figure out they can ball. It’s to late! 🤷🏾‍♂️ My personal opinion. They just don’t get the Jimmy & Joe’s coming in that give them an advantage. It has more to do with how they start developing kids early.

I knew there was something I liked about you Nepsy7

 

[remotecougar]

Again you all wont discuss the numbers/issues. No feelings. How can 2 schools win 150 state championships in 20 years across multiple sports? Explain to me the secret and tell me how the student body make up and no boundaries has no effect. Dont deflect. Tell us the secret to this success

Yeah Yeah Yeah.. We get it, your a namsey Pansey liberal who thinks all outcomes should equal. If they are not equal something is wrong and I must blame someone .....even when I don have any factual evidence. So please pick up your participation trophy and move along.

Let' get back to some real issues worth discussing like football and how New Bern is being wronged in the standings.. and how Crest will do with a fourth play or where Richmond County will finish this year and for this Week AL Brown versus Hickory Ridge. unlike you they are all trying to get a real trophy

 

[ForsythCo]

@remotecougar you keep coming with insults. While @bigdadd11103 has been calm. Outside of football I find myself agreeing with what he’s saying. Nothing he’s saying is wrong.

 

[CatholicCougs14]

@remotecougar you keep coming with insults. While @bigdadd11103 has been calm. Outside of football I find myself agreeing with what he’s saying. Nothing he’s saying is wrong.

Most of what he is saying is not factual in reference to football or the school itself. Remote, jojr and I are pretty intune with the school. If you knew who they were you’d 100% agree. I think I’ve got a pretty good grasp on the workings of MACS(much better than big daddy does), who we accept (which is not as selective as he claims, but well over 90, Id say closer to 95-96% of all students in MACS are Catholic and actively attend mass) and other things. Btango has posted that athletes should be requires to be in good standing with a Catholic parish. Something like two years of attending 45 out of 52 weeks. I say put that in. It wouldn’t hurt us much at all. Gibbons I cannot speak for, they’re much different than us.
I think remote is tired of the same crap spewed year after year. It’s every year, same arguments, same lies. Now, no excuse for any name calling, but remote is being himself. Wish footsoldier had chimed in. He’d always provide quality content.
Coach Oddo had a great quote when asked about how we keep success at such a high level year to year. Went something like “Well you have fathers who play and then all the siblings come and play. We don’t recruit em here, we breed em here” or something like that. The amount of legscy’s I coach is staggering. The amount of younger siblings I teach or coach is high too. Talking 3, 4 brothers usually all around same ability, but coming up through the system. That certainly helps on the field.