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Albemarle's Future?

Through redistricting you would add 100-150 kids to AHS and about 40-50 to SSHS most importantly you could get rid of all the mobile units.

I think AHS could add those numbers by moving the lines into the West district toward Endy.

Where will the students that will attend South come from? I think it will be hard for them to get to 40 students unless they go into the AHS district and that lowers AHS. I also do not think a student should be moved to a school farther than the one he attends now. If that is going to be the case then the constant argument regarding Albemarle's district and the fight to keep the schools based on driving and distance becomes hypocritical.
 
When Hobby Lobby was hiring they advertised they were hiring associates at $15 an HR. You know glass door is just an avg right.


nation, Hobby Lobby is not paying associates $15 an hour starting out or even with some time in employment with them. They do not pay that at the Matthews store so they definitely will not pay it in Albemarle.
 
I think AHS could add those numbers by moving the lines into the West district toward Endy.

Where will the students that will attend South come from? I think it will be hard for them to get to 40 students unless they go into the AHS district and that lowers AHS. I also do not think a student should be moved to a school farther than the one he attends now. If that is going to be the case then the constant argument regarding Albemarle's district and the fight to keep the schools based on driving and distance becomes hypocritical.

Agreed, those are the numbers I was told with redistricting but most definitely the kids should go to the school closest to their homes.

In regards to Hobby Lobby that just what j seen as they were preparing to open I will try to find the link again when I get a moment.
 
From everyone I have spoken to on all sides of the county the majority have spoken for the tax ref IF schools stay open.

I'm regards to what you just mentioned I understand BUT that is the past. I'm looking towards the future and what will help us grow academically financially and economically. Having been in the manufacturing industry the fact that we are not close to highways will have not a lot of impact. Albemarle is in a great location being within a reasonable distance to raleigh Charlotte Columbia Greenville etc. IMO the political climate is risky and the academics due to the fact we are not creating job ready kids. A plus are the smaller community schools.

To get the referendum to pass will take a huge amount of grass roots work even if it is guaranteed that no schools will close for twenty years. Too many people in Albemarle see raising taxes as a socialist tool. I think if you spoke to a more diverse crowd of people from across the county you may get different views. I do think a sales tax has a chance with the right marketing and efforts but a property tax would not pass in my opinion.

nation, a central location with interstate access or access to their customers is one of the top things a manufacturer looks for. (The nearest seaport often is a factor also.) That can be trumped by tax incentives that states and local governments offer but transportation costs and logistics are a huge item for corporations. Also, an available work force that fits the job and skills profile. An example are the major auto builders in the south are by a major interstate that is close to additional ones or at least another running in the opposite direction (n/s and e/w). Volvo 26 and 95. BMW 85 and 26. M Benz 59 and 20.
 
When Hobby Lobby was hiring they advertised they were hiring associates at $15 an HR. You know glass door is just an avg right.

They might have hired some associates at $15/hour, but not all associates. Some of the departmental heads got $15/hour, but I doubt if the cashiers are being paid the same.
 
So what you are saying is that I should not base that off of hope or assumption? Basically what plan B is based off of right? :)

I have spoken to a good number of people along with others that have as well and around let's say 100-200 people have gave an opinion on it and around 98% were for. Your typical polls only include about 1% of your overall population. In fact polling even for president of the US only includes at was just poll maybe 10,000 with a 3% plus or minus. So I would say of the 150 let's say 98% or overwhelming majority have been for if schools stay open and most of those people are willing to hand out flyers and be active for it gives you a descent feel for the proposal. Wouldn't you say?

See you not being here you wouldn't see all the people for improvement they just want their community schools. People have been involved for over a year now and some have spoken multiple times. We have better options that the powers to be are not even considering or looking at. Which leads people to believe they have an agenda. Especially moving forward with a plan that is NOT finalized yet. Dr. Griffin has even stated multiple times the plan is not finalized its just a draft and more changes need to be made. Yet this BOE moves forward. Sounds like an agenda to me. How can you vote and move forward with something of this magnitude that is NOT finalized. Even the consultant has stated they are not close. Maybe 50% completed.

I would encourage you and others to find out if any polling about the referendums have occurred. At this point I stick to my belief that this referendum will not pass under the current political climate. I have extensive training regarding polling, and it's nothing more than taking a snapshot of the electorate at a given time. After that, you have to consider other forces that will align for and against the referendums. In my opinion, you will see more money coming in to fight against the referendum, most notably groups associated with The Club For Growth.

The Board of Education has a tough task, and yes, they are making a hard, probably politically suicidal choice in closing Albemarle HS. I personally do not want the school to be closed because the high school along with the former city schools have been shafted over and over the past 20 years. Albemarle HS has been hurt from not only redistricting, but from a lack of viable redistricting over the years.

As I stated beforehand, this is the third best option I've seen. The best would be to build two new high schools, and the 2nd best is to pass a sales tax referendum that would save all schools. However, and this is where you and me disagree on, I simply don't see these referendums passing.
 
To get the referendum to pass will take a huge amount of grass roots work even if it is guaranteed that no schools will close for twenty years. Too many people in Albemarle see raising taxes as a socialist tool. I think if you spoke to a more diverse crowd of people from across the county you may get different views. I do think a sales tax has a chance with the right marketing and efforts but a property tax would not pass in my opinion.

nation, a central location with interstate access or access to their customers is one of the top things a manufacturer looks for. (The nearest seaport often is a factor also.) That can be trumped by tax incentives that states and local governments offer but transportation costs and logistics are a huge item for corporations. Also, an available work force that fits the job and skills profile. An example are the major auto builders in the south are by a major interstate that is close to additional ones or at least another running in the opposite direction (n/s and e/w). Volvo 26 and 95. BMW 85 and 26. M Benz 59 and 20.


The crowd was very diverse and the majority was for it, IF schools remained open. The main item that came up was an accounting of what the funds would be for, which directly points to the trust currently. In addition most were willing to help out going door to door or whatever to make sure people understood what it was about. I know from the people for this day people don't want change etc like outlaw said but that my friend is simply not the case. People want better academics people are wanting to be involved but the BOE is not listening or responding.

One thing I will say is that I have been able to hear what a lot of these new BOE candidates ideas are and they have some great ideas. Patty Crump, Tempest Leake, Anthony Graves, Ryan McIntyre all have very very good ideas About bettering the academics and all are sharp people. I haven't had much of a chance to hear Melvin's ideas yet I just know that he is against closing the schools. As soon as I am able to I will let you know. All the candidates I just mentioned are for a plan such as I mentioned earlier or something similar but most importantly I think they will listen and get the community involved to have a common sense solution instead of resting on hope or assumptions a plan will work despite all the data proving otherwise.
 
Absolutely it's beautiful.

I also forgot one hidden gem within the county: Camp Barnhardt. I've visited the camp many times back in the 80's and 90's, and that camp was one of the best locations in the state. Areas like this camp show how the county could be used for retreats and possibly vacation homes. I always wonder if Badin might become such a retreat/vacation area. With the golf course in Badin, many vacationers and retirees would have a wonderful time for hours each day.
 
I would encourage you and others to find out if any polling about the referendums have occurred. At this point I stick to my belief that this referendum will not pass under the current political climate. I have extensive training regarding polling, and it's nothing more than taking a snapshot of the electorate at a given time. After that, you have to consider other forces that will align for and against the referendums. In my opinion, you will see more money coming in to fight against the referendum, most notably groups associated with The Club For Growth.

The Board of Education has a tough task, and yes, they are making a hard, probably politically suicidal choice in closing Albemarle HS. I personally do not want the school to be closed because the high school along with the former city schools have been shafted over and over the past 20 years. Albemarle HS has been hurt from not only redistricting, but from a lack of viable redistricting over the years.

As I stated beforehand, this is the third best option I've seen. The best would be to build two new high schools, and the 2nd best is to pass a sales tax referendum that would save all schools. However, and this is where you and me disagree on, I simply don't see these referendums passing.


It can't be political suicide if you are voting for something with no desire to re run to see it through. Only one member is re running for their seat. Smh.

The tax ref will NOT pass if the plan is still on the table. Until that is completely removed and all schools will remain open and this is stated openly there is no shot for it.

2 new high schools I don't agree with once again you have a lot of money to invest to build one let alone two. Additionally it's a great thing to have smaller community schools IF the board removes all bias and treats all kids the same and keeps their best interest at the forefront. When I moved here that was one of the main reasons I moved here was because of the smaller schools other wise I would not have moved here. That's just me.

So what kind of state do you see SCS in if they lose another 200-300 kids to private charters due to plan B? Figure about $4350 a kid min. That's a lot of funding lost could mean a lot of jobs at risk as well.
 
It can't be political suicide if you are voting for something with no desire to re run to see it through. Only one member is re running for their seat. Smh.

The tax ref will NOT pass if the plan is still on the table. Until that is completely removed and all schools will remain open and this is stated openly there is no shot for it.

2 new high schools I don't agree with once again you have a lot of money to invest to build one let alone two. Additionally it's a great thing to have smaller community schools IF the board removes all bias and treats all kids the same and keeps their best interest at the forefront. When I moved here that was one of the main reasons I moved here was because of the smaller schools other wise I would not have moved here. That's just me.

So what kind of state do you see SCS in if they lose another 200-300 kids to private charters due to plan B? Figure about $4350 a kid min. That's a lot of funding lost could mean a lot of jobs at risk as well.

There are more than the school board members whose political fate is in the balance. The school board members are only a few, and besides, they can always run again in the future (and most likely lose). BTW, there is no reason to shake your head at my opinion. It's just "my opinion". :)

Losing schools to the charters and the private schools have been occurring since 2002. I don't believe Plan B will increase the mass exodus we have seen over the years. To stop the bleeding, you must find ways to improve the quality of education.

There are pros and cons to community schools. Community schools are great if you can afford them, but they can sap a budget with many fixed costs associated with having numerous community schools. With a mediocre economy, along with stagnant population growth, community schools suffer more than the rest of the public schools. On the flip side, having two new modern high schools should assist the quality of learning.

A really strong community school in Stanly County would be Endy. My Godchildren had wonderful experiences for 3 or 4 years while in that school district. Wonderful school.
 
There are more than the school board members whose political fate is in the balance. The school board members are only a few, and besides, they can always run again in the future (and most likely lose). BTW, there is no reason to shake your head at my opinion. It's just "my opinion". :)

Losing schools to the charters and the private schools have been occurring since 2002. I don't believe Plan B will increase the mass exodus we have seen over the years. To stop the bleeding, you must find ways to improve the quality of education.

There are pros and cons to community schools. Community schools are great if you can afford them, but they can sap a budget with many fixed costs associated with having numerous community schools. With a mediocre economy, along with stagnant population growth, community schools suffer more than the rest of the public schools. On the flip side, having two new modern high schools should assist the quality of learning.

A really strong community school in Stanly County would be Endy. My Godchildren had wonderful experiences for 3 or 4 years while in that school district. Wonderful school.


I think Badin could be a great spot. The Badin inn I believe is under new management and doing some really great things out there which I believe will help that area tremendously.

Politically speaking there is some Blackfoot politics happening bigtime. I'm not going to speak of specifics but it is happening and being noted.

Endy, Oakboro, and Central all great schools in addition Albemarle Middle is doing a fantastic job as well.

In regards to a mass exodus of these plans happen you are going to see 200-300 kids leave the public school system here. One private charter will be in Norwood and another one in Oakboro. They are preparing now and getting things in line to act if necessary. This is not like plan B it's not based off hope or assumptions but facts.

Let's make sure this is clear as well. The SCS is operating sufficiently with current funds with current schools as is. Let's not get confused and act like SCS is about to go bankrupt that's not the case they do have a $73 million dollar budget.
 
There are more than the school board members whose political fate is in the balance. The school board members are only a few, and besides, they can always run again in the future (and most likely lose). BTW, there is no reason to shake your head at my opinion. It's just "my opinion". :)

Losing schools to the charters and the private schools have been occurring since 2002. I don't believe Plan B will increase the mass exodus we have seen over the years. To stop the bleeding, you must find ways to improve the quality of education.

There are pros and cons to community schools. Community schools are great if you can afford them, but they can sap a budget with many fixed costs associated with having numerous community schools. With a mediocre economy, along with stagnant population growth, community schools suffer more than the rest of the public schools. On the flip side, having two new modern high schools should assist the quality of learning.

A really strong community school in Stanly County would be Endy. My Godchildren had wonderful experiences for 3 or 4 years while in that school district. Wonderful school.


Just a question don't you find it humorous that under plan A AHS was still going to be a HS just one without sports? Which AHS athletics is completely self sufficient.
 
The crowd was very diverse and the majority was for it, IF schools remained open. The main item that came up was an accounting of what the funds would be for, which directly points to the trust currently. In addition most were willing to help out going door to door or whatever to make sure people understood what it was about. I know from the people for this day people don't want change etc like outlaw said but that my friend is simply not the case. People want better academics people are wanting to be involved but the BOE is not listening or responding.

One thing I will say is that I have been able to hear what a lot of these new BOE candidates ideas are and they have some great ideas. Patty Crump, Tempest Leake, Anthony Graves, Ryan McIntyre all have very very good ideas About bettering the academics and all are sharp people. I haven't had much of a chance to hear Melvin's ideas yet I just know that he is against closing the schools. As soon as I am able to I will let you know. All the candidates I just mentioned are for a plan such as I mentioned earlier or something similar but most importantly I think they will listen and get the community involved to have a common sense solution instead of resting on hope or assumptions a plan will work despite all the data proving otherwise.

The diversity I am more thinking is more along the lines is not as much black and white as occupation, beliefs on social issues, do they have children in school. If you go to a meeting about keeping schools open everyone is going to be for it if it will keep "their" school open. The Republican Party heads and the churches will need to push for the vote. I look forward to watching it play out.

When Earnhardt mentioned the two new high schools, that was the request of the Albemarle City Council.

Right now, who seems to be the frontrunners for the open positions on the board? I know the vote is a long way off but I am sure their are some people that are standing. I know two of the people and the family of another. All good folks and intelligent but I do not know their opinions as I am rarely in the county and speak to very few people who pay attention to this. Hopefully they can put in place programs with the budget they will have and make a difference.
 
So what kind of state do you see SCS in if they lose another 200-300 kids to private charters due to plan B? Figure about $4350 a kid min. That's a lot of funding lost could mean a lot of jobs at risk as well.

Charter schools are not private, they are public schools administered by the state DPI.

Stanly County will not get two charter schools approved by the state as Oakboro and Norwood hope to do for their elementary schools (if closed). That will be interesting to see how they position themselves in an attempt to gain an advantage over the other.
 
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Just a question don't you find it humorous that under plan A AHS was still going to be a HS just one without sports? Which AHS athletics is completely self sufficient.

I had conversations with others about that same issue with Plan A. If I remember correctly, Albemarle would have been a magnet school or school of choice under that plan. I don't understand why Albemarle would not have sports under that scenario.
 
The diversity I am more thinking is more along the lines is not as much black and white as occupation, beliefs on social issues, do they have children in school. If you go to a meeting about keeping schools open everyone is going to be for it if it will keep "their" school open. The Republican Party heads and the churches will need to push for the vote. I look forward to watching it play out.

When Earnhardt mentioned the two new high schools, that was the request of the Albemarle City Council.

Right now, who seems to be the frontrunners for the open positions on the board? I know the vote is a long way off but I am sure their are some people that are standing. I know two of the people and the family of another. All good folks and intelligent but I do not know their opinions as I am rarely in the county and speak to very few people who pay attention to this. Hopefully they can put in place programs with the budget they will have and make a difference.

I'm not sure Patty is unchallenged so she will be one. I think there are 3 running for Mr. Barbee seat including Melvin. I would be shocked if Tempest don't win she is a fantastic lady with a masters and a parent and teacher. Her experience would be fantastic on the BOE. I believe either Anyhony or Ryan is unchallenged as well.
 
One I was forgetting was Vicky Watson who is running against Mitzie Almond who is the lone BOE member running for re election.

Anthony Graves is running for Glenda Gibson. Both great candidates I just read up some things on Glenda both seem to have great ideas.
 
Stanly County will not get two charter schools approved by the state as Oakboro and Norwood hope to do for their elementary schools (if closed). That will be interesting to see how they position themselves in an attempt to gain an advantage over the other.

Thanks btango...I was about to look into the same situation. I could see one but not both becoming a charter school.
 
I had conversations with others about that same issue with Plan A. If I remember correctly, Albemarle would have been a magnet school or school of choice under that plan. I don't understand why Albemarle would not have sports under that scenario.

LOL why wouldn't they keep AHS and add a vocational program? That along with the SCC program is a powerful statement when pitching potential businesses. A magnet or school of choice only targets the top 20% of your student base the vocational program targets 80%.

I am telling you if they redistrict that savings for transportation will be great. If they do that and add a vocational program to AHS like I said open to all county students and offer a bus from each HS that impact will be very positive and out is ahead of surrounding counties. Most are not seeing the power of the SCC program when coupled with a good vocational program. I'm talking academically financially and economically. We have a great opportunity and the BOE is missing it.
 
Stanly County will not get two charter schools approved by the state as Oakboro and Norwood hope to do for their elementary schools (if closed). That will be interesting to see how they position themselves in an attempt to gain an advantage over the other.

You are missing the private part Btango. These will be private charters not public. They will be 501c3.
 
Just a question don't you find it humorous that under plan A AHS was still going to be a HS just one without sports? Which AHS athletics is completely self sufficient.

AHS gets zero dollars from the school or county budget for the sports department? All costs of sports are covered by money raised by the athletic teams?

I agree Plan A was not a very well thought out plan. A county with 2300 students have a magnet only school did not make sense. I could see AHS having some small magnet programs for specialized curriculum that very few students would want therefore making it unsustainable at the different schools.
 
AHS gets zero dollars from the school or county budget for the sports department? All costs of sports are covered by money raised by the athletic teams?

I agree Plan A was not a very well thought out plan. A county with 2300 students have a magnet only school did not make sense. I could see AHS having some small magnet programs for specialized curriculum that very few students would want therefore making it unsustainable at the different schools.

Yes AHS athletic programs are self sufficient. other than pay of course that is dictated at the county level, but I figured that was understood.
 
LOL why wouldn't they keep AHS and add a vocational program? That along with the SCC program is a powerful statement when pitching potential businesses. A magnet or school of choice only targets the top 20% of your student base the vocational program targets 80%.

I am telling you if they redistrict that savings for transportation will be great. If they do that and add a vocational program to AHS like I said open to all county students and offer a bus from each HS that impact will be very positive and out is ahead of surrounding counties. Most are not seeing the power of the SCC program when coupled with a good vocational program. I'm talking academically financially and economically. We have a great opportunity and the BOE is missing it.

I never supported a magnet school for Stanly County. Some other counties have magnet schools, but most are in larger populated counties. Plan A, which was merely a proposal, didn't work for me. I do believe that Plan A was put on the board to give parents and students a limited choice about what school to attend, but overall, it did not look very enticing. If Stanly County's population was double the size, it would make more sense.
 
You are missing the private part Btango. These will be private charters not public. They will be 501c3.

In order to get money from the state, except for tuition vouchers, they would need to be public. A private school cannot get money that is budgeted per pupil to a public school like a charter does.

A 501c3 is a non profit or tax exempt organization but that does not necessarily mean they are moving toward a private school. The cost to do a private school would be a burden and limit what the school could provide. Vouchers are based on income and go along with the government subsidized lunch numbers or at least it did a few years ago.
 
AHS gets zero dollars from the school or county budget for the sports department? All costs of sports are covered by money raised by the athletic teams?

I agree Plan A was not a very well thought out plan. A county with 2300 students have a magnet only school did not make sense. I could see AHS having some small magnet programs for specialized curriculum that very few students would want therefore making it unsustainable at the different schools.

I personally think that a vocational program would be a huge thing here. Hvac plumbing auto mechanic cosmetology ag or similar blue collar programs so that when these kids graduate they have job training and can get a job helping them become productive adults
 
In order to get money from the state, except for tuition vouchers, they would need to be public. A private school cannot get money that is budgeted per pupil to a public school.

A 501c3 is a non profit or tax exempt organization but that does not necessarily mean they are moving toward a private school. The cost to do a private school would be a burden and limit what the school could provide. Vouchers are based on income and go along with the government subsidized lunch numbers or at least it did a few years ago.

Hey I have already seen this in the works it's going to happen people are coming together to make it happen.
 
In order to get money from the state, except for tuition vouchers, they would need to be public. A private school cannot get money that is budgeted per pupil to a public school like a charter does.

A 501c3 is a non profit or tax exempt organization but that does not necessarily mean they are moving toward a private school. The cost to do a private school would be a burden and limit what the school could provide. Vouchers are based on income and go along with the government subsidized lunch numbers or at least it did a few years ago.

There is some confusion regarding charter schools and whether they are public or private. Here's a good article that discusses this issue: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/local/wp/2015/02/04/are-charter-schools-public-or-private/
 
Yes AHS athletic programs are self sufficient. other than pay of course that is dictated at the county level, but I figured that was understood.

Each school in the county gets a set amount from SCS. It has dwindled over the years but as of two years ago they still got it. Embarrassing what SCS provides compared to some of the others. My biggest concern for AHS has been the drop in financial support from businesses over the last few years.

Is SCS making the schools pay a set amount per mileage when they use an activity bus? I had heard this last year.
 
Each school in the county gets a set amount from SCS. It has dwindled over the years but as of two years ago they still got it. Embarrassing what SCS provides compared to some of the others. My biggest concern for AHS has been the drop in financial support from businesses over the last few years.

Is SCS making the schools pay a set amount per mileage when they use an activity bus? I had heard this last year.

Yes for an activity bus $1 a mile. Have you seen our fab 40 board lately? The AD is doing an outstanding job!!!!

In regards to charters yes public charters receive state funds private charters do not.
 
The following address provided by school board candidate Patty Crump. Patty addressed the Stanly County Board of Education on Thursday night to share her research on the dangers and outcomes of consolidation. Her comments reflects research where the empirical evidence points to the dangers that consolidation has on students and communities. ACES would also like to say that we have conducted significant research in this area and we have concluded the same all across America.

The Chicago Teachers Union Research Department recently published a document titled, Twelve Months Later: The Impact of School Closings in Chicago and I’d like to read directly from the
conclusion of this paper: “One year after massive school closings in Chicago, what has changed for the students? Have they gotten the support they need? Do they have smaller classes? Do they attend integrated schools in greater numbers? The tragic answer to these questions is “NO”. School closings have done nothing to improve the education of CPS students, nor have they saved money, but the same policies that led to massive closures continue to be implemented.”

What research has shown is a direct relationship between school size and academic achievement. As schools get bigger, student performance suffers. The larger the schools, the higher the percentage of absenteeism, discipline problems, and disorder. Smaller schools overwhelmingly show an increase in
academic performance, student participation in athletics and other extracurricular activities, and overall success. So why does the research continue to be ignored?

As a licensed English teacher who taught and encouraged independent research, I have to say, my findings have been eye-opening. Even though I was inclined to be in favor of community schools, I took the time and researched this topic from every angle. I searched for the benefits of closing and
consolidating schools. While I have found a few studies and a handful of articles noting negligible financial benefits, it is very difficult, if not impossible, to link any increase in academic performance to school closings and consolidations. Every time I began researching the subject matter, I found page upon page, chapter upon chapter, of negative results and growing evidence where smaller schools actually promoted better academics, access, participation, and overall success.

The two primary factors supporters of Plan B are using to justify school closures and consolidation are:

1. Funding, and 2. Improved educational opportunity. There are hundreds of studies out there and none of the available research supports the notion that Plan B will achieve positive outcomes. As a matter of fact, according to an article titled Consolidation of Schools and Districts: What It Says And What It Means, the author concluded that, those types of assumptions are no more than “dangerous oversimplifications.” Adding, “Research also suggests that impoverished regions, in particular, often
benefit from smaller schools [and districts], and they can suffer irreversible damage if consolidation occurs.”

As elected officials, you have the responsibility to do this research. It’s your obligation. So reasonable people should be concerned when you continue to push a plan that research proves would create more negative outcomes than positive. As a parent, a former teacher, a tax payer, and candidate for the School Board, I ask you to drop Plan B; not based on emotion, but after careful consideration based on the facts.
 
Yes for an activity bus $1 a mile. Have you seen our fab 40 board lately? The AD is doing an outstanding job!!!!

In regards to charters yes public charters receive state funds private charters do not.

Have not been in town in months. I know it had dwindled. Glad to see. AD is a good man. So is his daddy.
 
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The following address provided by school board candidate Patty Crump. Patty addressed the Stanly County Board of Education on Thursday night to share her research on the dangers and outcomes of consolidation. Her comments reflects research where the empirical evidence points to the dangers that consolidation has on students and communities. ACES would also like to say that we have conducted significant research in this area and we have concluded the same all across America.

The Chicago Teachers Union Research Department recently published a document titled, Twelve Months Later: The Impact of School Closings in Chicago and I’d like to read directly from the
conclusion of this paper: “One year after massive school closings in Chicago, what has changed for the students? Have they gotten the support they need? Do they have smaller classes? Do they attend integrated schools in greater numbers? The tragic answer to these questions is “NO”. School closings have done nothing to improve the education of CPS students, nor have they saved money, but the same policies that led to massive closures continue to be implemented.”

What research has shown is a direct relationship between school size and academic achievement. As schools get bigger, student performance suffers. The larger the schools, the higher the percentage of absenteeism, discipline problems, and disorder. Smaller schools overwhelmingly show an increase in
academic performance, student participation in athletics and other extracurricular activities, and overall success. So why does the research continue to be ignored?

As a licensed English teacher who taught and encouraged independent research, I have to say, my findings have been eye-opening. Even though I was inclined to be in favor of community schools, I took the time and researched this topic from every angle. I searched for the benefits of closing and
consolidating schools. While I have found a few studies and a handful of articles noting negligible financial benefits, it is very difficult, if not impossible, to link any increase in academic performance to school closings and consolidations. Every time I began researching the subject matter, I found page upon page, chapter upon chapter, of negative results and growing evidence where smaller schools actually promoted better academics, access, participation, and overall success.

The two primary factors supporters of Plan B are using to justify school closures and consolidation are:

1. Funding, and 2. Improved educational opportunity. There are hundreds of studies out there and none of the available research supports the notion that Plan B will achieve positive outcomes. As a matter of fact, according to an article titled Consolidation of Schools and Districts: What It Says And What It Means, the author concluded that, those types of assumptions are no more than “dangerous oversimplifications.” Adding, “Research also suggests that impoverished regions, in particular, often
benefit from smaller schools [and districts], and they can suffer irreversible damage if consolidation occurs.”

As elected officials, you have the responsibility to do this research. It’s your obligation. So reasonable people should be concerned when you continue to push a plan that research proves would create more negative outcomes than positive. As a parent, a former teacher, a tax payer, and candidate for the School Board, I ask you to drop Plan B; not based on emotion, but after careful consideration based on the facts.

Ms. Crump has the right idea by presenting a data-based argument to the board instead of the tearful and emotional pleas that comprise the majority of the views presented. But I do think she would have been better served by using a study from a county or school system of a similar size and demographic as Stanly County, as opposed to Chicago. Here are a couple of facts, verified by US Census Data:

Chicago, IL:
  • Population 2.2 million,
  • Size 234 square miles.
  • Population density: 1,900 persons per square mile

Stanly County, NC
  • Population 60,600 (estimated as of 2015)
  • Size 395 square miles
  • Population density: 153 persons per square mile
This doesn't even take into consideration the ethnic and economical mix of the population in Chicago vs. Stanly County.

I'm not knocking Ms. Crump. I've known her for years and she is a sharp lady and would be a good board member. But I don't think her use of the Chicago stats is comparing apples to apples when contrasted with Stanly County.
 
Ms. Crump has the right idea by presenting a data-based argument to the board instead of the tearful and emotional pleas that comprise the majority of the views presented. But I do think she would have been better served by using a study from a county or school system of a similar size and demographic as Stanly County, as opposed to Chicago. Here are a couple of facts, verified by US Census Data:

Chicago, IL:
  • Population 2.2 million,
  • Size 234 square miles.
  • Population density: 1,900 persons per square mile

Stanly County, NC
  • Population 60,600 (estimated as of 2015)
  • Size 395 square miles
  • Population density: 153 persons per square mile
This doesn't even take into consideration the ethnic and economical mix of the population in Chicago vs. Stanly County.

I'm not knocking Ms. Crump. I've known her for years and she is a sharp lady and would be a good board member. But I don't think her use of the Chicago stats is comparing apples to apples when contrasted with Stanly County.

I agree if this was the only study. There have been hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of studies completed in regards to this same situation and all have the exact same results. I believe she was just referencing this particular one but I in her statement she mentioned I believe all the studies showing the negative impacts. The bottom line is these plans are based off of hope and assumptions rather than proven positive results rather than all the negative and 0 positive results that I have seen.
 
New Dawg - It is interesting that you say that the tearful and emotional pleas were not as important as the study Mrs Crump presented and I respect your opinion, but would like to offer mine.

According to the NC General Statues Chapter 115C Article 7 - Before a board can close a school, they must do a study that "having in mind primarily the welfare of the students to be affected by the proposed closure and consolidation...and the inconvenience or hardship that might result to the pupils by such closing and consolidation" That is an exact quote from the General Statues, other then a couple lines in between the 2 sentences I separated with the periods

I think the emotional pleas were relaying to the board, the hardship of the students that are going to be affected. According to the General statues, those should have more meaning than any other study or test. The EC students that require structure to function, will be uprooted and not have that structure. The parents that have no car to drive to parent teacher meetings, can get to a school 1/4,1/2 mile away, but obviously would not be possible 7-10 miles away. Students having to get on a bus earlier in the morning, will cause problems and would be considered an inconvenience in my book.

The board has a study and is trying to advocate that the average ride time only went up 1.5 minutes with plan B I think. But if you look at the study, and not take their word for all they say, 11 of the 16 remaining schools, ride time increases or almost 70% of the schools. Second what also is interesting about the transportation study is, that currently with all schools open, they are running 100 of the 104 buses they have in the county - With this study, and closing 3 schools, they are going to run all 104 buses. Why would you run 4 more buses for 3 less schools you ask? With 4 buses not being used now, if you have accident or equipment malfunction, you just send one of the loaner buses until the other one is repaired. Now, if you use all 104, what happens if a bus has equipment malfunction in the morning? Seems to me they used 104 in the study, to make the ride times, not look as bad as they would be, with the current 100 buses they are using. It just hard me to fathom, that no teachers are going to be laid off, and the number of buses being ran are going to go up, when you consolidate 3 schools. I have never heard of a business doing that.

I think you can do a million studies and have a million different answers, based on who is asking for and paying for the study but if the Statues says you have to take primarily the welfare, hardships and inconvenience of the pupils into account, then that is where the money and studies should be focused.
 
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New Dawg - It is interesting that you say that the tearful and emotional pleas were not as important as the study Mrs Crump presented and I respect your opinion, but would like to offer mine.

According to the NC General Statues Chapter 115C Article 7 - Before a board can close a school, they must do a study that "having in mind primarily the welfare of the students to be affected by the proposed closure and consolidation...and the inconvenience or hardship that might result to the pupils by such closing and consolidation" That is an exact quote from the General Statues, other then a couple lines in between the 2 sentences I separated with the periods

I think the emotional pleas were relaying to the board, the hardship of the students that are going to be affected. According to the General statues, those should have more meaning than any other study or test. The EC students that require structure to function, will be uprooted and not have that structure. The parents that have no car to drive to parent teacher meetings, can get to a school 1/4,1/2 mile away, but obviously would not be possible 7-10 miles away. Students having to get on a bus earlier in the morning, will cause problems and would be considered an inconvenience in my book.

The board has a study and is trying to advocate that the average ride time only went up 1.5 minutes with plan B I think. But if you look at the study, and not take their word for all they say, 11 of the 16 remaining schools, ride time increases or almost 70% of the schools. Second what also is interesting about the transportation study is, that currently with all schools open, they are running 100 of the 104 buses they have in the county - With this study, and closing 3 schools, they are going to run all 104 buses. Why would you run 4 more buses for 3 less schools you ask? With 4 buses not being used now, if you have accident or equipment malfunction, you just send one of the loaner buses until the other one is repaired. Now, if you use all 104, what happens if a bus has equipment malfunction in the morning? Seems to me they used 104 in the study, to make the ride times, not look as bad as they would be, with the current 100 buses they are using. It just hard me to fathom, that no teachers are going to be laid off, and the number of buses being ran are going to go up, when you consolidate 3 schools. I have never heard of a business doing that.

I think you can do a million studies and have a million different answers, based on who is asking for and paying for the study but if the Statues says you have to take primarily the welfare, hardships and inconvenience of the pupils into account, then that is where the money and studies should be focused.

The point I wanted to make (and didn't do a clear job of) is that it's important for the BOE (or any elected body faced with such a decision) to try to be as objective as possible, and for that you need not just measurable data, but measurable data that applies to the situation. I don't think a study from a large metro area does that in this case.

The thing that must be done is to improve SCS overall using the resources available to us. If that can be done without closings, great!! But if closings are what it takes to make the whole system better, then so be it. It's up to the BOE to decide what is best. And even if they do their best to be totally objective, many that aren't happy with the decision (or in this case, the fact they are considering a potential decision) they are still certain to be accused of bias by those most directly affected. There's a large group of people out there who don't care what it takes, they just want to see our schools improved and students prepared for the future, regardless of how it's accomplished. Unfortunately, many of these folks (mostly 'empty nesters') don't tend to come out to public hearings very often.

My comment about "tearful and emotional pleas" was not to be taken as derogatory. Those tearful and emotional pleas are most definitely heartfelt and sincere, but are seldom based on objective facts...instead they tend to reflect worry and stress over possibly having to change the status quo.

The one thing that we can't do is nothing. Previous BOE's have skirted the issues of redistricting, future expenses based on aging facilities, etc., and look where we are now.
 
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I think you can do a million studies and have a million different answers, based on who is asking for and paying for the study but if the Statues says you have to take primarily the welfare, hardships and inconvenience of the pupils into account, then that is where the money and studies should be focused.

The General Statutes do say that the welfare, hardships, and inconvenience of those affected must be a primary consideration. But it must be weighed against the potential benefits as well. If BOE's who are considering a school closing based their decisions primarily on what they hear from those speaking at public hearings in communities where a school closure is being considered, no schools would ever be closed.
 
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