2021-25 Realignment
- Thread starter BlackKnight24
- Start date
So School size is only 50% of the equation. 25% are Wells fargo standings and 25% is financial make up of the school
Well not sure how to take them or what rubric they will use. You could have a school that has 1500 kids playing 2A ball or a school with 1300 kids playing 4A ball. So I hope they (NCHSAA) is transparent on the math but who knows. Looks like they are trying to level the playing field but I see this being used asa possible advantage with transfers from choice or magnet. Example my first3 years at Parkland we had a small 4A large 3A enrollment but were awful in most sports and arguably the worst football team in 4A/3A. So If this was used then the last year we were then Parkland could have been in 2A for the past 4 years due to this new rubric and could have been a real tough out in 2A So someone will figure out an advantage. Much like anything else something that is suppose to help this will be made a mockery of what the rule was intended to do, this is why realignment should be every 2 years. Now I could be way way off so we will see
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Transparency is not a NCHSAA strong suit. I am assuming we will still subdivide which will still continue to muddy the waters. Equity in the wrong hands can be a dangerous tool.
Personally i think its idiotic. And theres no way it should take till march. people need to make out schedules. And dividing 25% in both east and west seperately seems really dumb. Not sure why I expect any different after all these years tho.
So,
No transparency
Stuck with 4 divisions
Stuck with 4 year realignment
Maybe more split conferences.
No transparency
Stuck with 4 divisions
Stuck with 4 year realignment
Maybe more split conferences.
I’m wondering if this is a knee jerk response from the NCHSAA. We didn’t get the five classes we wanted. So now, we’ll give you something so bad that, in four years, you’ll be clamoring for five classes.
I applaud the east/west division. Other than that, it makes little sense to me.
My personal guess is that this is an "unofficial" attempt to have multipliers for non-traditional schools (charters and non-boarding parochial schools). They have been absolutely dominating the 1A classification (and starting to dominate 2A) due to their many advantages. Not to get political, but the current control of the state legislature is VERY supportive of charters and would look to legally block any attempts to specifically target non-traditional schools with a multiplier of some type. Using ISP (# of kids on free/reduced lunch) and Wells Fargo Cup Success (which has favored non-traditionals in those 2 classifications) is a way of getting around specifically targeting non-traditional schools only. Several months back Nick Stevens from Highschoolot.com had a great article on realignment and said the simplest and fairest thing to do is have a geographic multiplier for charter schools. Is it fair for a rural school with 500 kids (drawn solely from their local footprint) to face a charter school with 500 kids (drawn from an urban footprint with 60,000-100,000 to choose from)? I think this is an attempt to provide more equity on the lower half of the classification spectrum, but it may end up ultimately "throwing the baby out with the bathwater."
I know nothing will be perfect. But plug WS Prep into this scenario. And I suspect you’re right about getting around the whole multiplier question. There are too many schools with open enrollment to single out charter school. At least politically.
This model is designed to promote equity among schools for "all" sports. I have seen some prelim data and there are schools way over 90% ISP currently in leagues with a schools with less than 5% ISP. That socioeconomic difference clearly gives the low ISP schools an advantage in non revenue sports like softball, baseball, tennis, soccer and volleyball. Charters could be impacted depending on where they are located. Some of the inner city charters and very rural charters may still have a relatively high ISP score.
I saw one school that was almost 100% ISP in a league with a school that was 1% ISP. Amazingly, the school with 1% ISP has multiple conference, regional and state titles in different sports. The high ISP school has not won a state title in many years in anything and is really bad in non-revenue sports. They compete in football, basketball, wrestling and track but in nothing else.
Based on this model the current 2A Central Carolina Conference would likely have a 1A (Thomasville), four or five 2A and two or three 3A. That will break it up into smaller leagues or a split 2A/3A because they love to play each other in all sports for the competition, revenues and rivalries. Lexington and Thomasville are so different from an ISP measure versus the other schools in Davidson County.
Thomasville looks to be going into a 1A league, might be back in the Yadkin Valley with Albemarle, N Rowan, N Stanly, S Stanly, S Davidson and others. Trinity and E Randolph have almost an identical ADM as THS so they could end up in that league also. That could be a damn good 1A football league with Thomasville, N Rowan, Albemarle, N & S Stanly and ER.
The ISP core will isolate some schools like TW Andrews, HP Central, Thomasville, Dudley and make it harder to align them with schools with close ADM's and high ISP's.
Thoughts?
I saw one school that was almost 100% ISP in a league with a school that was 1% ISP. Amazingly, the school with 1% ISP has multiple conference, regional and state titles in different sports. The high ISP school has not won a state title in many years in anything and is really bad in non-revenue sports. They compete in football, basketball, wrestling and track but in nothing else.
Based on this model the current 2A Central Carolina Conference would likely have a 1A (Thomasville), four or five 2A and two or three 3A. That will break it up into smaller leagues or a split 2A/3A because they love to play each other in all sports for the competition, revenues and rivalries. Lexington and Thomasville are so different from an ISP measure versus the other schools in Davidson County.
Thomasville looks to be going into a 1A league, might be back in the Yadkin Valley with Albemarle, N Rowan, N Stanly, S Stanly, S Davidson and others. Trinity and E Randolph have almost an identical ADM as THS so they could end up in that league also. That could be a damn good 1A football league with Thomasville, N Rowan, Albemarle, N & S Stanly and ER.
The ISP core will isolate some schools like TW Andrews, HP Central, Thomasville, Dudley and make it harder to align them with schools with close ADM's and high ISP's.
Thoughts?
I would be fine with Thomasville moving back to 1A. Our rivalry with Albemarle was fun back in my high school days. Could always play some of the local schools in Davidson, Forsyth, and Guilford as non conference games. E Randolph and Trinity wouldn't be bad in the Yadkin Valley.
Yes, it was. But Albemarle is a shadow of what they were back then. Long road trips and mostly poor gates. Even Thomasville travels poorly compared to your days. Increase the travel time and take away the local rivals and it will be worse. They probably should be 1A. But it will be difficult from a fan and financial perspective.
If you drop to 1A, the 3A and 4A schools in Forsyth are not playing you, then with the 2A and 1A schools in Forsyth attendance would be horrible.
OC, this was actually in response to bulldogjacket.
Got it, Sportsnut. And I agree. Thomasville had that problem before when we were 1A. Coach Brown generally had the philosophy that he didn’t want to play teams in our classification in non-conference. So he looked for teams higher than 1A. A few like North Davidson and Davie County would play us, even when they were 4A. But that had more to do with coaching relationships than anything. We were fortunate to win some, but it can be tough starting out 0-3 and then running off eight or ten victories in your own classification.
The biggest thing is that fans aren’t willing to regularly travel over an hour on Fridays. Especially if it’s Chatham Central or South Davidson.
I know Albemarle fell off since then but so have we for a while. We barely fielding 23 players as it is. Think we are getting but its ridiculous to see us lose some games because the opponent can rotate players while all of ours playing both offense and defense. Far as travel, even though its not bad in conference for us now we still end up traveling far during playoff time. Meanwhile everyone else in conference face each other for a second time.
Thats fine, we can always play Davie County and Kannapolis again. Like to see us play Ragsdale again too. Honestly, alot of our conference mates don't pull much of a crowd outside of ND, Ledford, and OG. I be fine with us playing North Forsyth, Walkertown, WS Prep or even Carver as bad as we got.
Didn't bother Mount Airy, East Surry, and Cummings, went 8-4 making the 1A playoffs last year. Be a good game in basketball too.
I have minor reservations with the use of the ISO, but I have major reservations with the use of the success rate multiplier. If you truly think about it you are punishing schools for being successful. Deep down I have serious issues with that.
Also there are schools all along the ISP spectrum that have major success and many that do not.
Anyhow, don’t really see why we are trying to involve ISP and success rate in realignment. The NCHSAA have done some strange things but this is sounds like a product of “everyone gets a trophy.”
All that said, I think this model is terrible.
Also there are schools all along the ISP spectrum that have major success and many that do not.
Anyhow, don’t really see why we are trying to involve ISP and success rate in realignment. The NCHSAA have done some strange things but this is sounds like a product of “everyone gets a trophy.”
All that said, I think this model is terrible.
I’m opposed to athletic factories posing as high schools, regardless of who they are.
I dont understand it and I dont get how the NCHSAA will break it down once all the scores and all are in to make conferences. also Will their be Subdividing? Someone said this was to try to help eliminate subdividing since you already have West/East Region set up.
I wish NC would do a 2 year realignment like SC because you get way better data and its just simpler. Usually only maybe 1 or 2 school swap out. I feel like SC does a better job on how they get conference setup
I wish NC would do a 2 year realignment like SC because you get way better data and its just simpler. Usually only maybe 1 or 2 school swap out. I feel like SC does a better job on how they get conference setup
We could see
Mooresville, Lake Norman, Northwest Cabarrus , Central Cabarrus, AL Brown, Carson , *Possibly* Alexander Central in a conference but I could see Alexander Central stay in current conference but they go to 4A side with Watauga n u add Maiden n Bandys on the 3A side
Mooresville, Lake Norman, Northwest Cabarrus , Central Cabarrus, AL Brown, Carson , *Possibly* Alexander Central in a conference but I could see Alexander Central stay in current conference but they go to 4A side with Watauga n u add Maiden n Bandys on the 3A side
This is my thought process. Why move a school that belongs in 1A or 2A up a classification because they happen to do well in WF Cup standings. WF Cup doesn't mean they are winning state titles either although higher scores usually mean they're getting close if not winning a title or two. Scratching my head at this.
North stanly moves to 2a in this projection with Anson dropping to 1a. Imo I think you will get the old rocky river conf with Anson and it being split with Anson Albemarle South stanly as 1a’s and forest hills Monroe west stanly north stanly being 2a’s
They are using this formula. This is a projection and the rough draft will be released by the nchsaa on December 10 but this gives us a good look at what this formula looks like
WF is 25% the other is ISP at 25% and then ADM at 50%. They calculate the totals scores for all schools in the west and then divide 25% for each class. Then they do the same in the East.
I think you will see Thomasville north Rowan Tw East Davidson and south Davidson In a 1a conf
