2014 NCPreps.com All-State
- Thread starter Deana_King
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Pretty bias team in my opinion all slanted toward more populated media areas and the panel didn't cover the Eastern part of state to well. But the NCPreps sportwriters have their opinions and agendas. I have my opinion as well and have a right to it.
No bias as at all. We pick kids based on their performances and not where they live.
You are right that you have your opinion and that's fine.
Posted from Rivals Mobile
You are right that you have your opinion and that's fine.
Posted from Rivals Mobile
What areas are you referencing as "more populated media areas"? Are the majority of schools not in those areas? It appears the team falls along the lines of larger population areas which makes sense to some degree. Meck County has about 30 schools that qualify for selection. There are three players from those teams. The far eastern section of the state has three players represented. Wake County with about 25 schools eligible has two. Guilford County has two. Forsyth County has one.
There are 27 players selected to the team. Ten of the selected players played in NCHSAA state title games as did the one private school player. At least 15 played in the regional finals. Out of 27 players 16 of them played in at least the state semifinals.
You certainly didn't go by statistics that for sure and I sure as heck don't see why it's a requirement to play in semi-finals or in the State Finals to make this team. They are several players other than some of the ones on this list that are worthy of being on this team plain and simple.
What position are you talking about? Who should be listed that is not? It's easy to criticize and not name names. There were some talented kids that didn't make it. We went by a lot of things.
We picked 11 offensive, 11 defensive, a kicker, a punter, a returner, and 2 athletes.
We picked 11 offensive, 11 defensive, a kicker, a punter, a returner, and 2 athletes.
It would be interesting to know how many of these kids played on the Shrine Bowl team. Plus how many were selected but opted not to play. Minus the juniors of course.
This post was edited on 12/28 2:48 PM by No.1RamsFan
This post was edited on 12/28 2:48 PM by No.1RamsFan
Are statistics the only thing that should determine a team? What about a d lineman who does not have great stats but you speak to opposing coaches and they all say we game planned away from him because he was too much for us to block.
No one wrote it was a "requirement" to play in the state semi-finals. I listed that to show that the majority of the players played on very successful teams. Often the better players are on the best teams.
List the players that you think should have made the team, their school and position(s) played.
Shrine Bowl selections as compared to the NC Preps All State team.
Offense: 11 players. 6 selected. 3 were not eligible (2 were juniors and one played in the private school league). 1 did not attend a combine. 6 of 8 that were eligible were selected. 6 of 7 that attended a combine were selected.
Defense: 11 players. 3 selected. 1 junior not eligible. 5 did not attend a combine. 3 of the 10 that were eligible were selected. 3 of the 5 that attended a combine were selected.
Specialities: 5 players. 2 selected. 1 junior not eligible. 2 did not attend a combine. 2 of the 4 that were eligible were selected. 2 of the 2 that attended a combine were selected.
27 players selected NC Preps All State.
22 players were eligible for the Shrine Bowl.
14 players attended a combine.
11 players that attended a combine were selected to the Shrine Bowl.
Three not selected were Cole Cleary (WR Hendersonville), Jeremiah Young (LB Franklin), Demerio Houston (DB Shelby).
Note: Ladowski was not initially selected to the Shrine Bowl but replaced Hinton who was removed due to injury. One DB opted out. One DB was contacted by a SB coaching staff member after not attending any combines and his school not submitting any players to the Shrine Bowl. He had some interest, but ultimately not selected.
This post was edited on 12/28 5:08 PM by btango
Offense: 11 players. 6 selected. 3 were not eligible (2 were juniors and one played in the private school league). 1 did not attend a combine. 6 of 8 that were eligible were selected. 6 of 7 that attended a combine were selected.
Defense: 11 players. 3 selected. 1 junior not eligible. 5 did not attend a combine. 3 of the 10 that were eligible were selected. 3 of the 5 that attended a combine were selected.
Specialities: 5 players. 2 selected. 1 junior not eligible. 2 did not attend a combine. 2 of the 4 that were eligible were selected. 2 of the 2 that attended a combine were selected.
27 players selected NC Preps All State.
22 players were eligible for the Shrine Bowl.
14 players attended a combine.
11 players that attended a combine were selected to the Shrine Bowl.
Three not selected were Cole Cleary (WR Hendersonville), Jeremiah Young (LB Franklin), Demerio Houston (DB Shelby).
Note: Ladowski was not initially selected to the Shrine Bowl but replaced Hinton who was removed due to injury. One DB opted out. One DB was contacted by a SB coaching staff member after not attending any combines and his school not submitting any players to the Shrine Bowl. He had some interest, but ultimately not selected.
This post was edited on 12/28 5:08 PM by btango
You have the official Stat list, you should be able to figure it out. There were three RBs that should have had real consideration, all seniors and three real talented backs and were in the top ten in stats, all from southeast. If you can't figure their names out, let me know.
How do you know the three players you are referencing did not have "real consideration"?
Over 17,000 played high school varsity football in NC this year. 27 of those are on this team.
List the players that you think should have been selected, their schools, and their positions.
btango, being as how you must the real guru. Here they are;
Terrin Manning RB Whiteville High School
Johnny Frasier RB Princeton High School (Shrine Bowl) selection
Farrell Murchison RB East Bladen High School
All three seniors with super stats all three played in the Playoffs.
These should have been worthy of being selected to all state team.
Terrin Manning RB Whiteville High School
Johnny Frasier RB Princeton High School (Shrine Bowl) selection
Farrell Murchison RB East Bladen High School
All three seniors with super stats all three played in the Playoffs.
These should have been worthy of being selected to all state team.
btango , please excuse me, I'm not concerned about the Shrine Bowl, I know how that works as well. If truth be known I've been around High School football as long as you have and maybe longer. I've seen my share of talent for the last 50 some years and I've seen some of it receive high honors and others being snubbed. My point is the NCpreps staff can't cover the whole state and make some of their selections as being justified, there is no way. I understand that.
I am not a guru and have never portrayed myself as such. I was interested in who you thought should have made the team. Is it only running backs that you think were overlooked?
As I wrote I liked Gallaspy as an athlete due to his play on both sides of the ball and Jaire Alexander from Rocky River as an athlete. That would leave it open to another running back but if you are stats driven Cody Reece from Mt Pleasant, Nyheim Hines of Garner, or Rocky Reid from Concord may get the nod, I am not sure. Any of the three you listed could have been on the first team and some may have questioned their selection over the two that made it, the three I listed, or others.
I posted this on the 1A Board:
We felt the two selected had better 2014 seasons. There were about 10 RBs that we considered for this. A long time ago when we first started naming an all-state we used to name 2 or 3 QBs and 5 or 6 RBs. People complained about that because they said it "watered down" the award. That's why we started doing an individual class all-state teams.
I remember some people in that area that used to complain about Todd Gurley not deserving anything.
Posted from Rivals Mobile
We felt the two selected had better 2014 seasons. There were about 10 RBs that we considered for this. A long time ago when we first started naming an all-state we used to name 2 or 3 QBs and 5 or 6 RBs. People complained about that because they said it "watered down" the award. That's why we started doing an individual class all-state teams.
I remember some people in that area that used to complain about Todd Gurley not deserving anything.
Posted from Rivals Mobile
Yes! some did and the rest is history. Those three I mentioned were deserving though, no way you can deny that.
The fact is Phantom, there are many who were deserving but were not selected. The fact is not everyone who is deserving is going to be selected. That happens at all levels of FB. That is just the nature of the beast. I bet if you put your all state team on here you will recieve posts telling you that you screwed up for leaving a player or two off. try it and see if I am not correct. I would like to see everyone who posts on here to send in a list of kids they felt should be on this team. I would like someone who has an interest in this sort of thing (btango are you interested) in charting the players who made it and the players the NC Preps posters thought should make it over the next 4-5 years to see how well they do in college and report their findings back to this site.
Don't have a dog in this fight, but do have an opinion.
The all-state team has absolutely nothing to do with future success in college or potential recruitment. Nor should it be based on success of the player's team or their career in total. It should be the best player for that year at that position.
The all-state team has absolutely nothing to do with future success in college or potential recruitment. Nor should it be based on success of the player's team or their career in total. It should be the best player for that year at that position.
OC, being a former college recruiter my thought is that most of the kids who are chosen each year for FB scholarships are the best at their position. College scouts do an outstanding job at finding the best of the best and ranking them at their positions. I will agree that there are kids who are great players who will never be able to get into college and they should be picked. I also understand that there are kids who are not in the top recruiting list that later on develop into pretty good players, but that is a different set of circumstances. My guess is also that if you track these players who are chosen they will (most of them who stay in school) develop into outstanding college players. So, with that thought in mind, they are the best at their positions and that is why they are chosen. I don't know what you mean by their career in total.
The all-state team should be chosen based on performance for that year only, not for accomplishments throughout the player's career. Name recognition from previous years often affects whether a player is chosen.
I believe that this recognition is about a high school player's accomplishments, not how highly they project for college recruitment. Two different issues entirely. Let me give you some analogies. Christian Laettner, Rodney Monroe, Randolph Childress and Tyler Hansbrough. Mediocre NBA players, but all deserving of all-America honors as collegiates. I believe, for instance, that Todd Gurley was chosen his senior year, more for his future play than his senior year accomplishments. Heresy to some, but that's my view.
Hope that clarifies my stance.
I believe that this recognition is about a high school player's accomplishments, not how highly they project for college recruitment. Two different issues entirely. Let me give you some analogies. Christian Laettner, Rodney Monroe, Randolph Childress and Tyler Hansbrough. Mediocre NBA players, but all deserving of all-America honors as collegiates. I believe, for instance, that Todd Gurley was chosen his senior year, more for his future play than his senior year accomplishments. Heresy to some, but that's my view.
Hope that clarifies my stance.
I have to disagree with you on Todd Gurley. I picked Gurley All-State and 2011 NCPreps.com Player of the Year for what he did on the field for Tarboro High School. He dominated....ask Lincolnton fans.
I'm lost on the "future play" comment. What Todd Gurley did at Georgia had no effect on winning an award the year before in NC.
Gurley, a 6-1 205 senior has led the Vikings to three straight 2A State Championships. The standout rushed for 2,485 yards with 35 touchdowns this season and was recently just named to the NCPreps.com All-State team and the NCPreps.com 2A All-State team.
On December 17th, he led the North Carolina team to a 26-19 victory over South Carolina by rushing for 119 yards with 2 touchdowns and earning the Most Valuable Offensive NC Player of the Game. He is one of the top recruits in the state and has not committed to a college yet. His top four schools are Clemson, Georgia, North Carolina, and NC State (in no particular order).
I'm lost on the "future play" comment. What Todd Gurley did at Georgia had no effect on winning an award the year before in NC.
Gurley, a 6-1 205 senior has led the Vikings to three straight 2A State Championships. The standout rushed for 2,485 yards with 35 touchdowns this season and was recently just named to the NCPreps.com All-State team and the NCPreps.com 2A All-State team.
On December 17th, he led the North Carolina team to a 26-19 victory over South Carolina by rushing for 119 yards with 2 touchdowns and earning the Most Valuable Offensive NC Player of the Game. He is one of the top recruits in the state and has not committed to a college yet. His top four schools are Clemson, Georgia, North Carolina, and NC State (in no particular order).
I'm sure we'll disagree on this one, Deana, and that's okay. But I think you just illustrated my point by citing his career accomplishments and his recruiting options in your justification for his selection. Not knocking Gurley, but that year he was overshadowed by a running back with 1,000 more yards and, I believe, more touchdowns. I say I believe, because you won't find his stats in the state record book, even though his season was the third-best single season yardage total for all classifications in NC history. Matter of fact, there is a curious void in those record books for several Thomasville folks, even though the records were submitted numerous times.
He played for a mediocre Thomasville team that he carried on his shoulders to the fourth round, where he lost to Lincolnton. Accomplished all of that even though everyone in the stadium knew he would carry the ball on most plays. But he didn't have the name recognition or recruiting hype that a lot of players had. He switched to running back from receiver his senior year to help his team. Thomasville also played the toughest schedule in the state that year, according to Simmons. Based solely on that one year, I believe he should have been the 2-A player of the year. You apparently disagreed. In all fairness, you did include him on your 2-A team, though he wasn't player of the year, nor did he make AP all state team.
This post was edited on 12/29 6:51 PM by ocdavis31
This post was edited on 12/29 10:07 PM by ocdavis31
He played for a mediocre Thomasville team that he carried on his shoulders to the fourth round, where he lost to Lincolnton. Accomplished all of that even though everyone in the stadium knew he would carry the ball on most plays. But he didn't have the name recognition or recruiting hype that a lot of players had. He switched to running back from receiver his senior year to help his team. Thomasville also played the toughest schedule in the state that year, according to Simmons. Based solely on that one year, I believe he should have been the 2-A player of the year. You apparently disagreed. In all fairness, you did include him on your 2-A team, though he wasn't player of the year, nor did he make AP all state team.
This post was edited on 12/29 6:51 PM by ocdavis31
This post was edited on 12/29 10:07 PM by ocdavis31
ocdavis if you are doing a write up on a player's accomplishments in accordance with his all state or POY award wouldn't you write about his career and where he may be going to college in addition to the season he just had?
The Thomasville back was Shaquan Johnson. Heard a lot about him that season. Heard a lot about Gurley, Keith Marshall, and junior TJ Logan also.
Explain what you mean about his numbers. The NCHSAA record book is out of date and needs an overhaul. The numbers need to be sent to Rick Strunk. If you have some that are not posted, post them here in a thread. Start one about records or totals or whatever. That is something that needs to be worked on and I think I have a guy that is going to help with that.
The Thomasville back was Shaquan Johnson. Heard a lot about him that season. Heard a lot about Gurley, Keith Marshall, and junior TJ Logan also.
Explain what you mean about his numbers. The NCHSAA record book is out of date and needs an overhaul. The numbers need to be sent to Rick Strunk. If you have some that are not posted, post them here in a thread. Start one about records or totals or whatever. That is something that needs to be worked on and I think I have a guy that is going to help with that.
Thanks, btango. I'll get you accurate numbers on Shaquan (Quanny) Johnson. Here are some other omissions:
Quan Warley-mentioned in some areas, but no mention of his career stats of over 8100 yards rushing and 106 td's (5th in state)
Lawson Hodges-182 of 197 PAT's (6th in state)
Gabe Brockett-over 3,000 yards rushing in 2012
Coach Allen Brown-331 career wins. This would be most at one school and second overall, though I don't think that's right either. Seem to remember Charlotte Catholic coach having more, but no mention of that either. Coach Brown's relationship with the NCHSAA wasn't great, but it seems strange that all of these are missing.
In other thoughts, I'm really not trying to rehash the old Gurley/Johnson debate. Just used that as an illustration of a point. I believe that, often, players who get a lot of recruiting attention and have early career success are almost preordained to be all state or POY. I think the decision should be isolated to that single year. Certainly team success is a factor, but winning a state championship shouldn't be as important as the player's impact on his team and, where stats are quantifiable, his overall performance. Whether a kid is being recruited shouldn't be a factor at all. In 2011, Quanny matched up with some of the best teams in NC in all classifications and fell one game short of the championship.
For what it's worth NC Preps does a better job than the AP, where school size and geography seem to play a significant role.
Quan Warley-mentioned in some areas, but no mention of his career stats of over 8100 yards rushing and 106 td's (5th in state)
Lawson Hodges-182 of 197 PAT's (6th in state)
Gabe Brockett-over 3,000 yards rushing in 2012
Coach Allen Brown-331 career wins. This would be most at one school and second overall, though I don't think that's right either. Seem to remember Charlotte Catholic coach having more, but no mention of that either. Coach Brown's relationship with the NCHSAA wasn't great, but it seems strange that all of these are missing.
In other thoughts, I'm really not trying to rehash the old Gurley/Johnson debate. Just used that as an illustration of a point. I believe that, often, players who get a lot of recruiting attention and have early career success are almost preordained to be all state or POY. I think the decision should be isolated to that single year. Certainly team success is a factor, but winning a state championship shouldn't be as important as the player's impact on his team and, where stats are quantifiable, his overall performance. Whether a kid is being recruited shouldn't be a factor at all. In 2011, Quanny matched up with some of the best teams in NC in all classifications and fell one game short of the championship.
For what it's worth NC Preps does a better job than the AP, where school size and geography seem to play a significant role.
This is not a shot or disrespect for the NC Prep voters or the players selected. Just my honest stance.
I have often criticized the NCPreps All State teams as being nothing more than a All State team of top recruits in the state. There have been instances in the past where a player with far better stats and meaningful impact on the games he played was left off for a player that was being recruited by a BCS/Power 5 school. Same thing with a dominant 2A/1A guy being left off for a 3A/4A guy with better recruiting stars than actual stats and impact. Same thing with a 6'5 280lbs lineman being selected over a 6'2 230lbs with far better stats and impact. Not saying the bigger names did not deserve the honor, but I'm saying there may have been more deserving kids that slipped through the cracks based on aforementioned factors. Its all subjective.
This year, however, I feel that the NCPreps staff has gotten it as right as they possibly could, and I commend the NCPreps staff for doing a fine job. There was a good variety of upper and lower A players, east and west, big cities and small crap holes. Yes, there are positions that could be debated (RB could be argued for days), but overall a great representation of NC football this year.
But there is a LB that if he was an inch taller and 20lbs bigger would have made it
I have often criticized the NCPreps All State teams as being nothing more than a All State team of top recruits in the state. There have been instances in the past where a player with far better stats and meaningful impact on the games he played was left off for a player that was being recruited by a BCS/Power 5 school. Same thing with a dominant 2A/1A guy being left off for a 3A/4A guy with better recruiting stars than actual stats and impact. Same thing with a 6'5 280lbs lineman being selected over a 6'2 230lbs with far better stats and impact. Not saying the bigger names did not deserve the honor, but I'm saying there may have been more deserving kids that slipped through the cracks based on aforementioned factors. Its all subjective.
This year, however, I feel that the NCPreps staff has gotten it as right as they possibly could, and I commend the NCPreps staff for doing a fine job. There was a good variety of upper and lower A players, east and west, big cities and small crap holes. Yes, there are positions that could be debated (RB could be argued for days), but overall a great representation of NC football this year.
But there is a LB that if he was an inch taller and 20lbs bigger would have made it
There is a process for the record book. There are forms to fill out for those kids that should be in the record book. The principal, AD, and coach have to be involved in the process. I've turned in numerous things for Starmount over the years and they have always been recorded.
Posted from Rivals Mobile
Posted from Rivals Mobile
Thanks, Deana. Any idea what happens if the coach has retired? Frankly, Allen Brown would never have turned in his own record. He didn't coach for the recognition and would be a little embarrassed by the whole thing. Wish we had more like him and less Spurriers and Coach K's
Clinton has a sophomore running back that led the state in yards per carry. He'll be on the list some day!
Every time I see an All state or All American team mentioned I harken back years and years ago to a UNC basketball player named Mike O'Koren....here's one of the all time oddities and is a good example of how hype prevails...
O'Koren (can't remember the exact year), was named FIRST TEAM ALL-AMERICAN......yet only made SECOND TEAM ALL ACC.........LOL....I still find this hilarious...................
O'Koren (can't remember the exact year), was named FIRST TEAM ALL-AMERICAN......yet only made SECOND TEAM ALL ACC.........LOL....I still find this hilarious...................
The record book needs to be updated. Normally the records are correct but the all time lists are where the performances are missing.One of the biggest issues is schools do not send in the information with the necessary signatures or information. Not saying that is the case here but have been told that on several occasions. It is the school's job to report correctly and follow up.
I've posted it over and over again...so I'll try again...Why can't NCHSAA use interns or someone to update record books??
Sometimes info is sent in and is still not correct...I know this from TGT (Longtime sports reporter here) who has updated
stuff and sent it in...usually is ignored........after a while people quit trying...the program from this year's NCHSAA state playoff games
has listings from past state titles...in 1930 it has Reidsville winning 2-0 over Statesville ( that was a semifinal game)
TITLE game was won by Reidsville 20-7 over Apex....the correct info was sent in...obviously wasn't updated...
It also has Reidsville winning state titles over Laurinburg in 1945 and 1946.....1945 is correct (Reidsville won 27-0)
1946 is NOT correct....I think Mount Airy won it that year. Not sure who their opponent was///
Point is...this is just a small sample of one school with incorrect info...multiply that and you see the problem
As far as individual records and team records go...they are also woefully incorrect and inadequate......NCHSAA is sitting on
millions of dollars...you would think they would make a better effort to keep correct past histories.....OK...rant over............
Sometimes info is sent in and is still not correct...I know this from TGT (Longtime sports reporter here) who has updated
stuff and sent it in...usually is ignored........after a while people quit trying...the program from this year's NCHSAA state playoff games
has listings from past state titles...in 1930 it has Reidsville winning 2-0 over Statesville ( that was a semifinal game)
TITLE game was won by Reidsville 20-7 over Apex....the correct info was sent in...obviously wasn't updated...
It also has Reidsville winning state titles over Laurinburg in 1945 and 1946.....1945 is correct (Reidsville won 27-0)
1946 is NOT correct....I think Mount Airy won it that year. Not sure who their opponent was///
Point is...this is just a small sample of one school with incorrect info...multiply that and you see the problem
As far as individual records and team records go...they are also woefully incorrect and inadequate......NCHSAA is sitting on
millions of dollars...you would think they would make a better effort to keep correct past histories.....OK...rant over............
Quan Warley- 3304 rushing yards in 2005, 8100 yards for career, 106 career td's.
Shaquan (Quanny) Johnson- 3176 rushing yards in 2011
Gabe Brockett- 3036 rushing yards in 2012
I'm going to try to get the Thomasville folks to resubmit all of these. Unfortunately, the AD and coach during those years are retired. Hopefully, the association will accept current administrators' submission. I won't hold my breath.
Shaquan (Quanny) Johnson- 3176 rushing yards in 2011
Gabe Brockett- 3036 rushing yards in 2012
I'm going to try to get the Thomasville folks to resubmit all of these. Unfortunately, the AD and coach during those years are retired. Hopefully, the association will accept current administrators' submission. I won't hold my breath.
Thanks Deana. I'll try that too. Unfortunately, our local paper doesn't always even cover the games and rarely prints stats. No box scores. It's a shame that the Lexington paper does a better job of covering Thomasville than the hometown paper does.
Totally Agree!!!!!
Originally posted by rambbq:
I've posted it over and over again...so I'll try again...Why can't NCHSAA use interns or someone to update record books??
Sometimes info is sent in and is still not correct...I know this from TGT (Longtime sports reporter here) who has updated
stuff and sent it in...usually is ignored........after a while people quit trying...the program from this year's NCHSAA state playoff games
has listings from past state titles...in 1930 it has Reidsville winning 2-0 over Statesville ( that was a semifinal game)
TITLE game was won by Reidsville 20-7 over Apex....the correct info was sent in...obviously wasn't updated...
It also has Reidsville winning state titles over Laurinburg in 1945 and 1946.....1945 is correct (Reidsville won 27-0)
1946 is NOT correct....I think Mount Airy won it that year. Not sure who their opponent was///
Point is...this is just a small sample of one school with incorrect info...multiply that and you see the problem
As far as individual records and team records go...they are also woefully incorrect and inadequate......NCHSAA is sitting on
millions of dollars...you would think they would make a better effort to keep correct past histories.....OK...rant over............
I too have said this over and over. The NCHSAA is the richest in the nation. Yet their website/records are a joke.
Originally posted by ocdavis31:
Where do you think I got my numbers?. His stats are impeccable!
Thanks OC!
