1a and 1aa

[Alleghany84]

Why do other major sports split classifications and basketball does not. Not that I think it changes anything, I am just curious why basketball is different?

 

[Big43]

Football is the only sport that splits divisions prior to the split only 32 teams per class made the playoffs leaving some very good teams at home some with only one loss. It was a win win nchsa they made the coaches happy and doubled their football playoff revenue.Other sports don't have the crowds to make it worth the hassle.

 

[ObserveAndReport]

I think that in football the numbers in your school matters more than in other sports because you have to field more kids and need with more diverse talents to be successful. Plus, splitting allows the same total number of teams (64) to make it as other sports.

 

[Alleghany84]

Thanks for that Big 43. There are far more basketball teams than there are football teams that participate in football. So from your perspective, it was a financial decision. I just have always found it interesting why one sport deserves 8 state championships and others only deserve 4. There may have been some good teams left home in the old system in football but now there are teams making the playoffs that have no business being in. If their intent was to make more money then I guess this was the best way to do it. Playoffs last so long already, you would hate to see it stretched out any longer

 

[btango]

Originally posted by Big43:
Football is the only sport that splits divisions prior to the split only 32 teams per class made the playoffs leaving some very good teams at home some with only one loss. It was a win win nchsa they made the coaches happy and doubled their football playoff revenue.Other sports don't have the crowds to make it worth the hassle.

Basketball just recently went to 64 teams for the playoffs as did baseball. Not sure about other sports. Non football sports have proven that schools from the smaller half of the classification can compete with the larger half. In 4A boys since 2001 through 2013 the champions came from the smaller half of the schools about half the time.

The one loss teams not making the playoffs was not the driving factor in the initial sub-divided playoffs push although it is often cited. 1A coaches in the eastern part of the state pushed for sub-dividing because they felt they were at a disadvantage due to the enrollment discrepancies. In 2001 1A went to 64 teams divided into two sub-classes. The following year the coaches from the other classes voted it in.

Very few teams stayed at home with one loss but obviously some did. It was normally due to a two or even three way tie for first place but they true culprit was the NCHSAA, as voted on by the schools, awarded playoff slot based on a predetermined qualifying spots per conference that rotated from year to year. One conference may have two teams with 7-3 records finishing first and second place in their conference. A neighboring conference could have a 10-0 and 9-1 team but that 9-1 team would stay home due to their conference had only one playoff slot that year. Coaches were starting to request a "power poll" be used for seeding and non conference champion qualifying in place of the pre-determined slots.

The NCHSAA admin would prefer to scale the playoffs back some and offered some options to 1A schools last year but all were turned down even though they complained about early round travel, got the pod system, and then complained about that. 64 of 78 football playing 1A schools make the playoffs. Ridiculous

 

[btango]

Originally posted by Alleghany84:

Thanks for that Big 43. There are far more basketball teams than there are football teams that participate in football. So from your perspective, it was a financial decision. I just have always found it interesting why one sport deserves 8 state championships and others only deserve 4. There may have been some good teams left home in the old system in football but now there are teams making the playoffs that have no business being in. If their intent was to make more money then I guess this was the best way to do it. Playoffs last so long already, you would hate to see it stretched out any longer

The intent was not money although some schools may make more. More fair chance to compete for a state title was the main reason. I am sure some schools thought they would make more money but many first round games are not a money maker at the gate but concessions probably are helpful for the home team. I think one motivating factor for coaches was the ability to get extra weeks of practice and quality games in that they otherwise would not have gotten. It would be naive to think they do not like the playoff boast on their resume.

As I wrote previously four classes is very competitive in all other sports. Football's numbers normally are a contributing factor to the larger schools in a class usually having the most success although not always.

 

[Alleghany84]

Appreciate your thoughts btango, and I think you are absolutely right. I have just always been curious why the model was not followed in all sports. Just the opposite seems to be true in basketball with all the non football playing magnets and charters. May be because several of them do not at this time field a football team and it gives them more time to practice basketball. If you look back at recent history, it has been a team that would fall into 1a rather than 1aa that has been winning anyway. I just thought as well as it worked in football, I wondered why it wasn't used everywhere. You really end up with the same number of teams in the playoffs.

 

[btango]

1A is the only classification that has non football schools in the NCHSAA. Correct me if I am wrong but I cannot think of any. There are also a few regular publics that do not have football programs.

 

[Alleghany84]

You are correct it is 1a that I was referring to.

 

[ObserveAndReport]

Originally posted by btango:
1A is the only classification that has non football schools in the NCHSAA. Correct me if I am wrong but I cannot think of any. There are also a few regular publics that do not have football programs.

2A has a few. Durham School of the Arts and North Carolina School of Science and Math are the two that immediately come to mind. But you're certainly right, generally speaking, that there are far more in 1A than any other class.

 

[btango]

Originally posted by ObserveAndReport:

Originally posted by btango:
1A is the only classification that has non football schools in the NCHSAA. Correct me if I am wrong but I cannot think of any. There are also a few regular publics that do not have football programs.

2A has a few. Durham School of the Arts and North Carolina School of Science and Math are the two that immediately come to mind. But you're certainly right, generally speaking, that there are far more in 1A than any other class.

Thank you OandR!!!

If anyone ever has a chance to go to Durham School of the Arts check out the gym. It is the old Durham High School. One of my favorites in the state. In 1981 the state playoffs went to the regional format. Previously the eight sectional winners met in the Triad for three game tournament. (I think 4A had changed their scenario by then and was using Greensboro.) Never forget watching Washington HS play with Dominique Wilkins. His teammate from the previous year walked in with Frank Johnson. Dean Smith, Norm Sloan, Carl Tacy, and numerous other coaches and players from the Big 4 were in attendance.

 

[good times roll]

Tango, I may be not understanding your post, but Wilkins would have already been playing at Georgia in 1981. Plus Norm Sloan had left for Florida by 1981. So maybe the date was in the late 70's? I think 'Nique graduated from Washington in 1979. Btw your posts are the most informative that are posted on this site, thank you.

 

[btango]

Originally posted by good times roll:
Tango, I may be not understanding your post, but Wilkins would have already been playing at Georgia in 1981. Plus Norm Sloan had left for Florida by 1981. So maybe the date was in the late 70's? I think 'Nique graduated from Washington in 1979. Btw your posts are the most informative that are posted on this site, thank you.

The regional concept started for the 1980-1981 season.

In 1978-79 Wilkins led the Pam Pack to their second straight title. Alvis Rogers was the former teammate that came in with Frank Johnson. Phil Ford was there. Place was packed and it was star studded. That was before all of the AAU and coaches seemed to show up at high schools more often.

Saw James Worthy play a few times that year including against DeMatha. Then saw them in the McDonalds AA Game at the old Charlotte Coliseum (Independence Arena).

I was at Washington HS this summer for the Shrine Bowl combine. It is not the same one from that era as they built a new one on the outskirts of town. The only items they have in the school for those teams are two basketballs and the state title trophies. Was told the new principal wanted to get rid of the "old" and start focusing on the new kids. I think I would want kids to know you can win.